| Author |
Topic |
Len Long |
Posted - 2008.12.06 11:39:00 - [ 1]
Why is this allowed? do CCP think it adds to the quality of the game? or do they want everyone to have second accounts? Would very much like to hear a reply from a dev/mod/GM.
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Sanka Cofie
Amarr
The Yaar Offices of Pointe Webb and Podemall
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 13:48:00 - [ 2]
How come you never see GMs / Devs come in here saying they would very much like to hear a whine from a player who can't cope with game mechanics? |
Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 14:34:00 - [ 3]
Neutral remote repping has long been a broken game mechanic that also happens to be utter bull****. It would indeed be nice to have this addressed at some point. |
Inertial
Did I just do that
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2008.12.06 15:42:00 - [ 4]
1. Non gang/corp/alliance characters can remote rep other characters.
2. You can't use a tractor beam unless the wreck is owned by a corpmate/gangmember.
This doesn't make sense, and tbh, one of those mechanics should change. IMHO, number 2 should change. |
steveid
Viziam
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 18:29:00 - [ 5]
i don't think neutral remote repping is a problem as it flags you. What i would lie to see is the use of logistics modules preventing you from jumping or docking in the same way aggression does.
Another related problem is neutral gang links. If you are helping a hostile gang with gang links you should be flagged also. |
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2008.12.06 19:40:00 - [ 6]
don't they get flagged so you can shoot them when they start? |
Tai Paktu
Aperture Harmonics |
Posted - 2008.12.06 19:52:00 - [ 7]
Not an issue. You get rights to shoot anyone who helps someone you're allowed to shoot. They pay a consequence for their choice to help. And yes, a lot of game mechanics support tactics made easier or possible by second accounts. It's meta and it's not the best way to have a game but it's a good business model and we're making due.
Welcome to the harsher side of EvE. Anyone, at anytime can be your enemy. As I see it, neutral's repping is just a way of bringing some of the fun of low-sec and 0.0 to high sec. |
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.12.06 22:06:00 - [ 8]
 Originally by: Tai Paktu
Not an issue. You get rights to shoot anyone who helps someone you're allowed to shoot. They pay a consequence for their choice to help. And yes, a lot of game mechanics support tactics made easier or possible by second accounts. It's meta and it's not the best way to have a game but it's a good business model and we're making due.
Welcome to the harsher side of EvE. Anyone, at anytime can be your enemy. As I see it, neutral's repping is just a way of bringing some of the fun of low-sec and 0.0 to high sec.
it IS an issue it flags them to you for 15 minutes, then you can no longer touch them, and on top of that any aggresion you do towards THEM flags them BACK to you so, lets say your kicking your war target's ass, your both in battleships, and he's about to go down, and he pulls out the remote rep, and reps his friend, you shoot the neutral repper, he instadocks (as remote repping isnt flagged as aggresssion) then he undocks in his battleship, and now it has gone from a 1 vs. 1 that you were winning, to a 1 vs. 1 + his neutral support, so now YOU have to break through their tank YET again then it all of a sudden becomes a 2 vs. 1 since that neutral you just shot can now "defend" himself its horsecrap harsher side of EVE? L  O L neutral repping/logistic support is an EASY button, that TAKES away the harshness of YOU getting your ass kicked, the way i see it harsh? harsh would be having your precious neutral logistics constantly in the line of fire for a change, instead of hiding BEHIND his neutralitiy, THAT would be harsh this is not harsh, its an easy and an I-win button |
Agor Dirdonen |
Posted - 2008.12.07 14:55:00 - [ 9]
Take a neutral on your side and bump him off station, then shoot him. Your neutral keeps bumping so he can't go back.
That or use your own neutral to rep you if you know you're up against a corp that uses that trick.
You could also play a bit as an outlaw (-5) in lowsec where EVERYONE and their mother can shoot you whenever they like and learn from that experience. You'll whine much less about a neutral helping someone. |
Biscuit0
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.07 16:39:00 - [ 10]
Empire is scary!  Mainly because I want to shoot everything I see.  |
Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division |
Posted - 2008.12.08 00:29:00 - [ 11]
soldieroffortune 258: Your example would work exactly the same if he where in the same corp as the person he where repping. |
Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2008.12.08 04:14:00 - [ 12]
Originally by: Hoshi
soldieroffortune 258: Your example would work exactly the same if he where in the same corp as the person he where repping.
burn. megaburn. |
Titan Pilot
Amarr
Imperial Academy |
Posted - 2008.12.08 04:26:00 - [ 13]
remote repping should be considered agro and should prevent docking games ... problem solved. |
Johraiken Fenris
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation |
Posted - 2008.12.08 13:57:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: Johraiken Fenris on 08/12/2008 13:58:06 Originally by: Titan Pilot
remote repping should be considered agro and should prevent docking games ... problem solved.
Nope, it takes away one of the biggest defense mechanisms that logistic ships have. |
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.12.08 14:11:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Hoshi
soldieroffortune 258: Your example would work exactly the same if he where in the same corp as the person he where repping.
no, because then they are exactly that, war targets, they dont have the freedom to move around while "neutral" in their logistics, they would have perma aggresion so to speak, instead of repping his friend, then either docking, or hiding in a safespot, or what have you, WHEREVER they go, whenever they go there they will be "flagged" we had an empire war dec a while ago in which the targets did just that, they had a neutral logistics remote rep their command ship which we almost had down, needless to say, we lost then about 2 or 3 days later, i see the exact same guy in my main system, and i couldnt touch him now, if they were say, made a war target until either the A.) end of the war dec, or B.) for a week or so afterwards, I WOULD have been ABLE TO KILL HIM, but guess what, i couldnt, i had to allow him to sit there free of harm, and to simply set him to red so, how is ^^ this harsh? when he has the freedom to sit back behind his neutrality, and when they can pull a neutral logistics out of his ass in the middle of the fight? if he was a war target, i would have the chance to shoot him BEFORE he does his deed atm, he can do his deed, survive for 30 seconds to repair his friends tank, then warp to a safespot, or instadock |
Lord Zoran
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2008.12.08 15:14:00 - [ 16]
Originally by: Agor Dirdonen
Take a neutral on your side and bump him off station, then shoot him. Your neutral keeps bumping so he can't go back.
in rens you can get your ship in the middle of the station, plz explain how you can bump them out of there before they dock...... |
Dimitryy
Gallente
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild |
Posted - 2008.12.08 19:51:00 - [ 17]
Edited by: Dimitryy on 08/12/2008 19:55:11 Originally by: Sanka Cofie
How come you never see GMs / Devs come in here saying they would very much like to hear a whine from a player who can't cope with game mechanics?
LOL agreed. I have been killed by neutral RR a couple times, it's really not even that common to be honest. It's not broken either, it often ends up with the rr ship being primaried and the enemy losing two rather than one. |
nether void
Caldari
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests
R.A.G.E |
Posted - 2008.12.08 23:32:00 - [ 18]
This problem was solved way back in UO. Neutral healers were screwing up fights because they were not flagged aggressive. That was changed, and the problem was solved.
The problem was around back then (1998?). Was solved. History now repeats itself, and apparently we haven't learned our lesson. |
Firkragg
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.09 09:07:00 - [ 19]
Why do people keep saying this is broken
a neutral who reps your war target becomes flagged to you. Then you can shoot him. Yes he can dock up but the fact he is neutral doesnt change anything. If it was an in corp logistics ship doing the repping and docking would you be claiming exploit? |
Karanuv |
Posted - 2008.12.09 11:12:00 - [ 20]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
if he was a war target, i would have the chance to shoot him BEFORE he does his deed
if you have enough firepower to kill him before he starts repping/spydertanking if he was a war target you have enough firepower to overcome the rep he provides. or at worst force him to dock/flee and switch back to your target. and most people that do this have the neutral sitting in the station they are playing games at or at worst in the same system so unless you brought enough people to lock down the system (in that case read above) it wouldnt matter if he was a wartarget or not |
yarrmarr
Trans-Solar Works
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 11:25:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Firkragg
Why do people keep saying this is broken
a neutral who reps your war target becomes flagged to you. Then you can shoot him. Yes he can dock up but the fact he is neutral doesnt change anything. If it was an in corp logistics ship doing the repping and docking would you be claiming exploit?
You're conveniently missing a (the) point; if I start shooting a WT I know who I'm up against. I might have eyes in the surrounding systems so I can more or less identify backup the WT may have. however I can NEVER know whether the next undocking ship will be a neutral *coughs* remote repper. If it's a wt logistics undocking, jumping in or logging in they did their intel work better than me, but if there's a neutral involved there's nothing I could possibly do against it. |
Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries |
Posted - 2008.12.09 19:03:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: yarrmarr
You're conveniently missing a (the) point; if I start shooting a WT I know who I'm up against. I might have eyes in the surrounding systems so I can more or less identify backup the WT may have. however I can NEVER know whether the next undocking ship will be a neutral *coughs* remote repper.
If it's a wt logistics undocking, jumping in or logging in they did their intel work better than me, but if there's a neutral involved there's nothing I could possibly do against it.
Now if only the game allowed you to mark players as "hostile" so that the next time you see them, you know in future that they are not neutral.  |
FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2008.12.09 20:11:00 - [ 23]
Originally by: yarrmarr
You're conveniently missing a (the) point; if I start shooting a WT I know who I'm up against. I might have eyes in the surrounding systems so I can more or less identify backup the WT may have. however I can NEVER know whether the next undocking ship will be a neutral *coughs* remote repper.
If it's a wt logistics undocking, jumping in or logging in they did their intel work better than me, but if there's a neutral involved there's nothing I could possibly do against it.
There is one thing you can do... shoot him. So basically if there happens to be a tactic that circumvents your intel that should be considered an exploit? |
yarrmarr
Trans-Solar Works
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 21:36:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: yarrmarr
You're conveniently missing a (the) point; if I start shooting a WT I know who I'm up against. I might have eyes in the surrounding systems so I can more or less identify backup the WT may have. however I can NEVER know whether the next undocking ship will be a neutral *coughs* remote repper.
If it's a wt logistics undocking, jumping in or logging in they did their intel work better than me, but if there's a neutral involved there's nothing I could possibly do against it.
There is one thing you can do... shoot him. So basically if there happens to be a tactic that circumvents your intel that should be considered an exploit?
Shoot him, he'll insta dock (repping is no aggro remember?) the moment he's anywhere near exploding, he'll switch ships and undock in a dps ship. |
Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries |
Posted - 2008.12.09 23:09:00 - [ 25]
Originally by: yarrmarr
Shoot him, he'll insta dock (repping is no aggro remember?) the moment he's anywhere near exploding, he'll switch ships and undock in a dps ship.
During which time he is unable to rep the original target. If you can't kill your intended target during the time that his support is docked, then you can't kill him fast enough to avoid your target disengaging and docking in the first place. Maybe you should try to engage him somewhere other than the doorstep of a station.  Don't let him pick a fight that favors him, pick a fight that favors you. |
Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports |
Posted - 2008.12.12 07:55:00 - [ 26]
|
EChaos
Gallente
Damage Distribution Incorporated
Honourable Templum of Alcedonia |
Posted - 2008.12.13 03:51:00 - [ 27]
Originally by: Titan Pilot
remote repping should be considered agro and should prevent docking games ... problem solved.
/signed |
Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.12.14 21:08:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Meridius Dex
Neutral remote repping has long been a broken game mechanic that also happens to be utter bull****. It would indeed be nice to have this addressed at some point.
quoted for truth |
London
Imminent Ruin
Dirt Nap Squad. |
Posted - 2008.12.14 21:12:00 - [ 29]
/signed
|
Lea Re
Dirty Labs
Infinite Improbability Alliance |
Posted - 2008.12.15 02:16:00 - [ 30]
been on both sides of the fence having neutral rr on my side as well as dying to enemy gang with neutral RR.
the aggro timer of RR sounds nice, but otherwise it's all good (as it'll be flagged to you).
EVE's already becoming a pink fluffy world, don't make it more so. |
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