Posted - 2008.11.28 03:09:00 - [2]

 

In a word, no.

Posted - 2008.11.28 07:07:00 - [4]

 

Originally by: Vigilant

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They still need a lot of work IMHO.

Needs covert ops cloak, seperate fuel bay for topes, and no penality against sensors.

Resists are pretty weak for t2 ship*s well.

All and all, totally a niche role atm.

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all this tbh.

If they at LEAST had covert ops cloak, the price would almost be justified (cloakey BS ftw)

Posted - 2008.11.28 10:07:00 - [6]

 

With a decent amount of EFT worrioring you can work out some setups that will work great in some situation.

But they are not just uber HAC BS, not by a long shot.

Posted - 2008.11.28 11:27:00 - [8]

 

with the right amount of logistics, there is no need for the fuel bay now imho

Posted - 2008.11.29 16:38:00 - [10]

 

Right now, I'd settle for a bit higher resists and no sigres penalty.
I don't see CCP changing anything else with them now besides completely redesigning them.

Posted - 2008.11.29 19:15:00 - [12]

 

iirc there has been some serious talk of adding a fuel bay and possibly letting covert cyno's jump into cyno jammed systems. If that happens BO ships will be very usefull in wars.

Posted - 2008.11.30 10:49:00 - [14]

 

Edited by: Waxau on 30/11/2008 10:50:40
Havent posted in a black ops thread in a while, so shall make an appearance this time. Much has already been said on it, however, i personally disagree with most of whats been said.

1. Black ops are awesome ninja ratters. The Widow especially. If you live in 0.0, with jump bridges, cyno gens, etc...theres no greater ship. If local spikes, just cyno out. Then laugh as the person spends 10 minutes trying to find you on scan, after you 'logged'

2. They have an updated role in certain logistics nowdays, in 0.0. With the use of cynos (both generators and arrays), you can jump blockade runners around with ease. Sadly, the jump drive doesnt have enough power to get through choke points, which is where a vast amount of value would lie.

3. Recon gangs etc...theyre still crap for. Theyre unable to move around cloaked, so are far more likely to get caught when roaming. Combined with the fact that should you want to use the jump portal, by the time you set up the alt etc with the cyno, your gang could have jumped twice the distance via stargates in that time.

4. I, for one, think black ops should get cov cloaks. Right now, they absolutely suck. Unless you do one specific style of combat, every single fight. Eg: You have scouts everywhere, and wait for a single lone target, thats larger than a Cruiser, with zero chance of reinforments. If you do that each and every day...then yes, the ship is of use. But for going out on roams, POS sieging, low sec camping....its rarely of use. A cov ops cloak would remove the scan res penalty, increase its survivability, and would remove the borked' nature that they've shared with stealth bombers.

5. A reworking of bonuses wouldnt actually be the worst thing, as it would actually mean these ships move from a niche role, to a useful generic use. They'd still be rare, due to the price tag. But each to their own.

<EDIT>

Forgot to say...No. Theyre not worth the price tag. Ive had 3 so far, and ive never lost one, got little kills with my widows, and everyone has met the same end. Market. Ive got black ops 5, all nessesary skills to 5, covert cyno alt, and the portal. Take it from me, when i say....the best black ops of them all is ****e. So imagine the rest.

Posted - 2008.11.30 12:14:00 - [16]

 

Edited by: Rajere on 30/11/2008 12:20:21
Hello Waxau. Think you're only disagreeing with me actually, every other response thinks they suck too :)

You know our opinions are not that different, I think the biggest difference between us in how we think about a ships role.

For example, recon gangs. We both were able to take one look at the ship (hihi it's a battleship!) and realize that the blackops would never be as good as recons at infiltrating into hostile territory, evading gate camps, etc it would simply slow down the recons at best, and at worst get caught and die. We both look at the covert portal and realize that its a huge hassle that produces practically no benefit, for cloaky recon gangs atleast.

The main difference is that you use these points to say, this is the BO's role, and they suck at it, they need the covops cloak to have a chance to even try. I look at these points and realize, even with a cov ops cloak, these issues would still impact the blackops, thus to bypass any halfway decent gate camp, the blackops will still need the recons to get through and for one of them to pop a covertcyno so that the blackops can jump past the camp. Therefore giving it a covops cloak is a bandaid at best, one with huge repercussions that would result in blackop nerfs. BOs obviously do not need nerfs, therefore the covops cloak is by definition a complete non-starter. Thus it was easy to conclude that roaming around with a cloaky recon gang obviously must not be the blackops role.

From there, we went out and figured out what the blackops role is, defining "role" as something that the ship excels at, and as it turns out in the blackops case, something that no other ship in eve can even try. Once we knew what the role was, we went about refining it, then began experimenting with all kinds of various combat situations and tactics where we could utilize them.

I'm not sure what you are referring to by #4, is that your widow soloing stuff? ie basically treating the blackops as a really expensive stealth bomber? I think i mentioned it before, but again I never really wanted to use the blackops in that way. We frown upon POSwar and gate camping especially, just really boring activities to us, so we don't use blackops for either of those. But for everything else, we can and do use blackops whenever appropriate, which is quite often. BOs enable such a huge amount of options, tactically speaking, allowing you to decide the terms and control many aspects of the engagement. They're great counters to the playerbase in general trending towards blobs and falconfests fighting.

As far as cloaking goes, eh, the cloak is for 2 things, one of which is entering warp super quickly, when traveling via stargates and such. the other is for cloaking up after a kill to blueballs the angry mob trying to retaliate to your blackops. Not that there's anything they can do to stop you really, the cloak is just so you can't get probed while getting ready for the next kill.

Also with the changes to the missile formula and sig rad, i'm not sure i'd qualify the widow as the best blackops any longer. It never had anything to do with its lolecm bonus.