| Author |
Topic |
CCP Mindstar
 |
Posted - 2008.12.04 15:38:00 - [ 241]
 Originally by: Random Womble
Mindstar i think its you that failed to read what he quoted which stated allowing RR _only_ on logistics and not allowing them to be fitted on any other ships eg the BSs you mentioned.
I know claw replied to that saying that you did not want to dictate so many things but in reality you would end up with less restrictions not more. Also since the logistics could not be remote repped they would be vulenerable too so no need to make them have huge points assuming you could only field 1.
Ahh - I see what that was getting at now. I read it as one logistics with RR, and not banning RR on BS. There are two comments I would make to this proposition. Firstly and foremostly, I don't think it would change much at all. You would have one logistics ship able to be tanked remotely by 4 BS' heavy repair drones. This would pretty much prevent the BS being initial targets, however the fight would go pretty much exactly the same with or without that logistics ship. The repair bots would get taken out first, then the logistics ship would go in a matter of seconds, and then it would go pretty much the same way of any fight in the rules we have planned. The way I see it - with or without this rule, the first ship attacked would be un-supported by remote repair modules, and once it is gone no other ship would be supported by remote repair modules. Secondly, going in this direction with conditional rules becomes a complete nightmare to enforce and check for. Allowing modules in some cases and not others is a can of worms which we would rather not open. If there were a compelling reason, we may be able to do it in future tournaments, but at this point its not feasible or desired. |
Elder Langley
Langley Trading and Holdings |
Posted - 2008.12.04 18:01:00 - [ 242]
Prizes? |
Rob Eagle
DEATHFUNK
Doctrine. |
Posted - 2008.12.05 00:59:00 - [ 243]
Edited by: Rob Eagle on 05/12/2008 01:00:45
What are points for exhumers/mining barges/industrials/transports? |
Delelia
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic |
Posted - 2008.12.05 03:16:00 - [ 244]
Originally by: Rob Eagle
Edited by: Rob Eagle on 05/12/2008 01:00:45
What are points for exhumers/mining barges/industrials/transports?
4. The ship points table is as follows, ship types not listed in the table are not allowed |
Laramon Questor
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Quantum Star Alliance |
Posted - 2008.12.05 22:00:00 - [ 245]
Yes, please, a prize list or working draft. |
Broegitte Bardot
BINFORD
Majesta Empire |
Posted - 2008.12.06 06:50:00 - [ 246]
well... it sure is a great way to demonstrate the useless logi drone bonuses (or drone bays), the crappy maintenance bot HPs (any non-combat drone really), the irrelevant tracking link bonuses and the joys of +25m signature on 65m ships.
reminds one, how nanofibers got changed from +xx m/s to mass reduction back then...
that said; i'd like to see 7 AB-scimitars + 1 claymore
but ofc all will be pointless once the 6 AB-curses + damnation show up. |
Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo |
Posted - 2008.12.06 12:53:00 - [ 247]
Can we get a clarification on what "pirate implants" are?
I mean only pirate implant sets? or do things like Michi's Excavation Augmentor count too??? |
ddemec
SoT |
Posted - 2008.12.06 14:00:00 - [ 248]
dont u think that hacs cost too low?
9 ishtars (w/ sentry drones and rigs to sentry damage) will be very powerfull (a lot of dps for close-middle range).
huh?
BTW: test my new sig >_> |
Xahara
StarFleet Enterprises
Systematic-Chaos |
Posted - 2008.12.06 14:21:00 - [ 249]
Here's my 2 cents about the logistic subject... From my honest point of view, CCP made all those rules to make a tournament that would be different from the past tournaments. And that's the extent to it. And i quote: "adapt or die". |
Chronos VIII
Amarr
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke |
Posted - 2008.12.06 15:14:00 - [ 250]
Originally by: ddemec
dont u think that hacs cost too low?
9 ishtars (w/ sentry drones and rigs to sentry damage) will be very powerfull (a lot of dps for close-middle range).
huh?
BTW: test my new sig >_>
Mentioned this already, but apparently mindstar thinks its ok  |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.06 16:16:00 - [ 251]
good luck finding the cpu to fit 2 sentry drone dmg rigs ;d
but yeah ishtar is a strong ship under these rules, one ship being more valuable than the rest of it's class is always going to be an issue when you assign points by class, rook and kitsune are the same |
Max Teranous
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2008.12.07 01:32:00 - [ 252]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
good luck finding the cpu to fit 2 sentry drone dmg rigs ;d
but yeah ishtar is a strong ship under these rules, one ship being more valuable than the rest of it's class is always going to be an issue when you assign points by class, rook and kitsune are the same
You can do it if you pretty much don't bother with highs, which if you are going for that setup aren't doing much for you anyway. I don't think it'll be the ultimate setup for this tournie, but it'll be a decent one. But then again drone boats have featured well in most of the tournies. Max  |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.07 09:28:00 - [ 253]
good point, pretty much worthless highs anyway with only 3 turret slots :O |
ddemec
SoT |
Posted - 2008.12.07 10:30:00 - [ 254]
Another question from me: gang bonuses.
Will the team be in its own squad with squad commander? or will the team be able to set squad booster?
or there will be no fleet created? |
Necronus
Amarr
Monks of War
DarkSide. |
Posted - 2008.12.07 11:44:00 - [ 255]
Originally by: ddemec
Another question from me: gang bonuses.
Will the team be in its own squad with squad commander? or will the team be able to set squad booster?
or there will be no fleet created?
1. There will be a fleet. 2. Your fleet will only consist of your team members. 3. Your team will be in a isolated system so you will have only bonuses you have with you. |
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.08 23:40:00 - [ 256]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 09/12/2008 00:07:20
These rules need to be changed.
9 ishtars have no counter. If you thought dual logistics setups were boring, you're gonna kill yourself after watching 75% of the teams field 9 ishtars, and 25% of the teams field something specifically setup to beat 9 ishtars (and losing 99% of the time).
The real problem with sentry drones now is that they can cover the entire field, are completely invulnerable to ECM, dampening and tracking disruption, and can easily be spread out enough to nullify smartbombing. Not to mention that ishtars can just drop more if they lose any. Drones have always been mostly immune to EW, but now they are completely immune. You could have the ENTIRE ishtar team jammed, and they would still be able to focus fire. This was not the case in the past.
5 gank bs will not beat this. 9 drakes will not beat this. Nothing will beat it if the ishtar pilots know what they are doing.
So the setup options for the tourney are:
9 ishtars
7 ishtars + something else
|
Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance |
Posted - 2008.12.09 01:02:00 - [ 257]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 09/12/2008 00:07:20
These rules need to be changed.
9 ishtars have no counter. If you thought dual logistics setups were boring, you're gonna kill yourself after watching 75% of the teams field 9 ishtars, and 25% of the teams field something specifically setup to beat 9 ishtars (and losing 99% of the time).
The real problem with sentry drones now is that they can cover the entire field, are completely invulnerable to ECM, dampening and tracking disruption, and can easily be spread out enough to nullify smartbombing. Not to mention that ishtars can just drop more if they lose any. Drones have always been mostly immune to EW, but now they are completely immune. You could have the ENTIRE ishtar team jammed, and they would still be able to focus fire. This was not the case in the past.
5 gank bs will not beat this. 9 drakes will not beat this. Nothing will beat it if the ishtar pilots know what they are doing.
So the setup options for the tourney are:
9 ishtars
7 ishtars + something else
there is a counter. |
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.09 03:41:00 - [ 258]
Originally by: Kayosoni
there is a counter.
on paper maybe |
Typhado3
Minmatar |
Posted - 2008.12.09 07:58:00 - [ 259]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 09/12/2008 08:12:37
Edited by: Typhado3 on 09/12/2008 08:00:07
seems to be a kick in the balls for logistics ships, especially min/gal. the amarr/cal ones can at least switch to energy transfers, while the min/gal ones will have a load of useless highs and the tracking links which are already pretty week.
also I'd bet 50 mil that their is an average of 1 falcon/scorp/rook/blackbird per fleet. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.09 08:35:00 - [ 260]
what makes you think 9 drakes wouldn't beat it ? just don't use kinetic missiles and bring painters (in case of afterburner) ;d |
Dihania
Gallente
SniggWaffe |
Posted - 2008.12.09 09:37:00 - [ 261]
|
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.09 12:48:00 - [ 262]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
what makes you think 9 drakes wouldn't beat it ? just don't use kinetic missiles and bring painters (in case of afterburner) ;d
Because I've already tested it about 10 times. |
Mes Ren
No Trademark
|
Posted - 2008.12.09 18:53:00 - [ 263]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 09/12/2008 00:07:20
These rules need to be changed.
9 ishtars have no counter. If you thought dual logistics setups were boring, you're gonna kill yourself after watching 75% of the teams field 9 ishtars, and 25% of the teams field something specifically setup to beat 9 ishtars (and losing 99% of the time).
The real problem with sentry drones now is that they can cover the entire field, are completely invulnerable to ECM, dampening and tracking disruption, and can easily be spread out enough to nullify smartbombing. Not to mention that ishtars can just drop more if they lose any. Drones have always been mostly immune to EW, but now they are completely immune. You could have the ENTIRE ishtar team jammed, and they would still be able to focus fire. This was not the case in the past.
5 gank bs will not beat this. 9 drakes will not beat this. Nothing will beat it if the ishtar pilots know what they are doing.
So the setup options for the tourney are:
9 ishtars
7 ishtars + something else
You are absolutely right. You should make sure PL fields this build. I know a lot of people that would be very happy about that. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.09 21:11:00 - [ 264]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
what makes you think 9 drakes wouldn't beat it ? just don't use kinetic missiles and bring painters (in case of afterburner) ;d
Because I've already tested it about 10 times.
Damn now i'm thinking of all kinds of ways Ishtars can be setup to beat crap out of 9 drakes :[ but as Kayosoni said there are other counters, that aren't worthless against other strats |
XFreedomX |
Posted - 2008.12.10 01:34:00 - [ 265]
I don't think 9 Ishtar can beat 6 command ships. Or 5 Command and 5 Griffins. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.10 08:48:00 - [ 266]
no offense but
1. hahahahahaha
2. you're only using 96 and 90 points respectively
3. ishtars are about the least vulnerable ship to ecm and only way i can imagine command ships beating them would be with oversized afterburners and ishtars leaving their webs at home |
Natsuki
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2008.12.10 12:15:00 - [ 267]
Originally by: XFreedomX
I don't think 9 Ishtar can beat 6 command ships. Or 5 Command and 5 Griffins.
ur horrible |
Kashimir
Otoko no Baito
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 12:24:00 - [ 268]
Edited by: Kashimir on 10/12/2008 13:01:24
Nice.. Nice.. Nice.
I have finished reading this thread and I have noticed how everyone is being devastated by the changes in the rules, for the setups they used last year won't be as good this year.
The Logistics won't work, The Frigs won't work, The ECM won't work, etc.
This is great... Why? Because once again people must think how to make them work, and once again we will see setups evolving during the tournament and in the finals we will be seeing winning setups that by allmeans seem overpowered, but they were achieved by people thinking out-of-the-box. (And the thing that I personally enjoy the most is seeing intelligent people creating superb things)
Do you people understand that if the rules won't change year after year the setups will eventually reach perfection?
Also, while you whine and complain don't forget to thank CCP for actually holding a tournament. I really look forward for this one. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.12.10 13:02:00 - [ 269]
changing rules from tourney to tourney is a good thing yes, i for one wouldn't mind going back to allowing pirate implants and not having EW for the next tourney ;O
but the rules as they stand now are a bit too heavily unbalanced in favor of hacs and battlecruisers, you pretty much have to be stupid to field battleships with these rules, same with logistics, t1 cruisers, faction cruisers, most recons, command ships, frigates, assault ships, bombers, heavy dictors, etc |
Kashimir
Otoko no Baito
|
Posted - 2008.12.10 13:10:00 - [ 270]
Edited by: Kashimir on 10/12/2008 13:23:04 Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
but the rules as they stand now are a bit too heavily unbalanced in favor of hacs and battlecruisers, you pretty much have to be stupid to field battleships with these rules, same with logistics, t1 cruisers, faction cruisers, most recons, command ships, frigates, assault ships, bombers, heavy dictors, etc
True. We shall see if the same can be said after the tournament :) [Note that I'm not trying to create an argument, I'm just speculating] EDIT: Also the rules I would love to see some year would be that there won't be any player limit so that we could see 30 frigs vs 10 BS or something like that, naturally that would require huge amount of recalibration with the shipcosts. And also that is pretty off-topic so don't mind me :) |
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