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Dr Cruces
Posted - 2008.11.09 11:43:00 - [1]
 

Like the title says, I was thinking a pulse paladin or abbadon.

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2008.11.09 11:46:00 - [2]
 

nightmare!

Torak Dakos
Amarr
Posted - 2008.11.09 11:47:00 - [3]
 

Im using an abaddon for missions, it got the same dps potential as a pulse paladin and the tank can handle any mission so i dont see why i would spend 800mill just for a better tank and same dps.

but if you wanna use beams then paladin is the way to go

Ferenc Puskas
Hunters Imperiale
Posted - 2008.11.09 11:49:00 - [4]
 

amarr navy fit a Abaddon, with 3 ccc rigs. **** thru most lvl IVs depending on your skils.

Dray
Caldari
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.11.09 12:03:00 - [5]
 

Im 2 weeks from Amarr BS 5, the only way i could improve my gunnery for pulse is to train the lge spec skill to 5 other than that im maxxed out bar amarr bs.
Does the range bonus to the Apoc make it an option? or does the lack of damage bonus hinder it too much?

Konrad Kurr
Posted - 2008.11.09 12:29:00 - [6]
 

Apoc --> abaddon ---> paladin

Is the best progression as you train skills up.

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2008.11.09 12:41:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Torak Dakos
Im using an abaddon for missions, it got the same dps potential as a pulse paladin and the tank can handle any mission so i dont see why i would spend 800mill just for a better tank and same dps.

but if you wanna use beams then paladin is the way to go


There are only two reasons to get a Paladin over an Abaddon, one of them good, the other not so good:

Tractor beam range, this significantly increases your isk/hour on missions with good salvage which are the majority of the ones you should run in a laserboat.

And twice as high wrecking hits for your bio Very Happy

Nai Weil
Caldari
M. Corp
M. PIRE
Posted - 2008.11.09 14:41:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Dray
Im 2 weeks from Amarr BS 5, the only way i could improve my gunnery for pulse is to train the lge spec skill to 5 other than that im maxxed out bar amarr bs.
Does the range bonus to the Apoc make it an option? or does the lack of damage bonus hinder it too much?


The Apoc doesn't have a damage bonus in theory, but in practice it works well. Given a target sitting at a particular range, an Apoc would be using Multifrequencies up to around 20km optimal with Megapulse while a Geddon would achieve the same range with x-Rays. So while it's true that the Apoc doesn't get a proper damage bonus, the option of using shorter range crystals allows you to hit harder at a particular spot compared to the other two battleships.

I haven't flown the Abaddon before (I'll need to train Amarr BS V and a few other skills first) but I fly both Apoc and Geddon, and find them both very useful. I use megapulse Apoc and megabeam Geddon, so it's hard to compare, but Apoc is a much easier ship to fit, and if you really miss that 8th low slot with the Geddon you can always aim for a Navy Apoc later, whereas with the Geddon if I want a 4th mid slot like the Apoc I'd have to dream of an Imperial Issue... why can't we have Navy Issue Armageddons? Sad

NoNah
Posted - 2008.11.09 15:36:00 - [9]
 

From best to worst:
Paladin - Nightmare - Navy Apocalypse - Apocalypse - Abaddon

Armageddon is bit of a wildcard that can be better than a Paladin on one mission and worse than an abaddon on the next. It's got the best damage of all bs's and that counts for quite alot when you're doing missions.. Oh, and Paladin is only that good if you salvage and/or loot. If you don't it's just a tad better than the Abaddon.

fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
Posted - 2008.11.09 17:47:00 - [10]
 

Paladin with Tachyons, makes the best missionrunner bs for amarr players.

The only ship that can keep up with Paladin is the Nightmare with Tachyons.

No Abaddon, no Apoc, no Geddon has this kind of range, nor the volley, nor the cap to do what Paladin or Nightmare can do.

NoNah
Posted - 2008.11.09 18:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: fuxinos
Paladin with Tachyons, makes the best missionrunner bs for amarr players.

The only ship that can keep up with Paladin is the Nightmare with Tachyons.

No Abaddon, no Apoc, no Geddon has this kind of range, nor the volley, nor the cap to do what Paladin or Nightmare can do.


Sadly, you don't really need the range. And who cares about volleydamage? Doomsdays got awesome volleydamage, but they would be pretty crappy missionweapons. 1000 damage dealt every second is way better than 60'000 every minute or even worse 360'000 Every hour.

Paladin is pretty low damage compared to the others, Pulse however lets you salvage the most important wrecks as you go along. Tachyons does not.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2008.11.09 18:48:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: fuxinos
Paladin with Tachyons, makes the best missionrunner bs for amarr players.

The only ship that can keep up with Paladin is the Nightmare with Tachyons.

No Abaddon, no Apoc, no Geddon has this kind of range, nor the volley, nor the cap to do what Paladin or Nightmare can do.


Sadly, you don't really need the range. And who cares about volleydamage? Doomsdays got awesome volleydamage, but they would be pretty crappy missionweapons. 1000 damage dealt every second is way better than 60'000 every minute or even worse 360'000 Every hour.

Paladin is pretty low damage compared to the others, Pulse however lets you salvage the most important wrecks as you go along. Tachyons does not.

Volley damage does help kill cruisers and **** faster imho, and besides tachyons are basically megapulse dps at more than megabeam range. You're really using them for the combo of dps+range, but the high alpha is cool too.

Gimpb
The Scope
Posted - 2008.11.09 20:20:00 - [13]
 

Paladin, naturally.

Failing the skills for that, nightmare.

Failing the cash for that, all 3 of the normal BSs have their high points for missions.

Zionysus
Posted - 2008.11.09 22:33:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: fuxinos
Paladin with Tachyons, makes the best missionrunner bs for amarr players.

The only ship that can keep up with Paladin is the Nightmare with Tachyons.

No Abaddon, no Apoc, no Geddon has this kind of range, nor the volley, nor the cap to do what Paladin or Nightmare can do.


Sadly, you don't really need the range. And who cares about volleydamage? Doomsdays got awesome volleydamage, but they would be pretty crappy missionweapons. 1000 damage dealt every second is way better than 60'000 every minute or even worse 360'000 Every hour.

Paladin is pretty low damage compared to the others, Pulse however lets you salvage the most important wrecks as you go along. Tachyons does not.


Actually, you do need the range. If you didnt, people would use blasterthrons for missions. The more damage you can put out at higher range, the faster you can complete most missions without having to travel into optimal. Thus, for lasers, the battleships that can most easily fit Tachyons will be better.

Volley damage is also important, since if i go ahead an instapop a cruiser it means i can switch targets faster. Luckily, a tachyon nightmare/paladin/abaddon will have about a 6k alpha with decent skills, and somewhere around 1000 dps with guns.

So properly fit, the best amarr ships (in order) for mission running are-

Nightmare->Abaddon/Pally->Apoc(2 tracking comps w/optimal and pulse = 77km scorch range iirc)->geddon

Abaddon is as good as the Paladin because it does the same damage with a tank that is adequate. The Paladin pulls ahead in terms of ease of use and the tractor bonus, the Abaddon negates it IMO because you dont need to spend 800 mil on just the hull, and because it doesn't run the missions any faster.

tl;dr, get a Nightmare

Layla Ashley
Amarr
Steel-Rain
Void Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.11.09 22:51:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Zionysus

Actually, you do need the range.
[...]

Abaddon is as good as the Paladin because it does the same damage with a tank that is adequate. The Paladin pulls ahead in terms of ease of use and the tractor bonus, the Abaddon negates it IMO because you dont need to spend 800 mil on just the hull, and because it doesn't run the missions any faster.



please give the abaddon fitting you are thinking about, ie the one using 8 tachyons, 3 hs, 1-2 tracking computers, a tank strong enough for lvl 4 missions and enough cap to run it through long missions

Pry Maraai
Amarr
Hyper-Nova
Posted - 2008.11.09 22:58:00 - [16]
 

If all you care about is the LP and standing, nightmare is the best you can get, followed by tachyon paladin and then the bunch of T1 battleships.

If isk/h is what you are after, pulse paladin is ahead, and there is no real competition since all the others need another ship to do salvaging/looting.

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.11.09 23:03:00 - [17]
 

Paladin, for the ease of use.

It has the best natural cap regen of any sub-cap in the game to start with, and it should never be a problem. I run a faction LAR + 4 tachs and faction multifrequency forever on it, with armor rigs on it rather than CCC's. It has the utility slots and the expanded cargo.

In short:

Same damage as nightmare and abaddon.
Better tank than abaddon, slightly worse than nightmare (if using crystals).
By far the best cap stability of the 3, so no worrying about juggling rep cycles or about getting nossed by blood npc's.


The paladin is worth the extra isk imho. It makes mission running so much easier overall, its relatively easy to get.... The *only* downside is one that is only ever used in pvp.

Kira Kasumi
Posted - 2008.11.10 11:01:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
Paladin, for the ease of use.

It has the best natural cap regen of any sub-cap in the game to start with, and it should never be a problem. I run a faction LAR + 4 tachs and faction multifrequency forever on it, with armor rigs on it rather than CCC's. It has the utility slots and the expanded cargo.

In short:

Same damage as nightmare and abaddon.
Better tank than abaddon, slightly worse than nightmare (if using crystals).
By far the best cap stability of the 3, so no worrying about juggling rep cycles or about getting nossed by blood npc's.


The paladin is worth the extra isk imho. It makes mission running so much easier overall, its relatively easy to get.... The *only* downside is one that is only ever used in pvp.


other downside is that the paladin got such an ugly hull, ill use the abaddon over it any time just becaues i dont wanna look at that thing for hours on end, also why ill pref the nightmare if i had caldari BS V becaues it looks so awsome

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.11.10 13:06:00 - [19]
 

Looks are subjective. I for one love the Apoc hull, although i do wish they didn't reverse the colors of the Pally...

But if you're playing just for looks, why aren't you complaining that level 4's are so difficult in a Cruor or Dramiel? Or even an Anathema? :P

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2008.11.10 13:09:00 - [20]
 

i'd say abaddon is enough for any mission below level 5, but then again, i run level 2 missions in a coercer Laughing

Xano Heroma
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2008.11.10 13:11:00 - [21]
 

paladin pilot here.

i havent tried the nightmare yet, but looks to me like it will be a faster killer, but slower looter/salvager.

soo depends on your situation.....
if you only fly 1 pilot(account) and are into isk/hour the paladin is the way.

if you got someone els to loot/salvage or are mainly into LP/faction I imagen the Nightmare will be the thing :O)

and the look of the nightmare.... hehehe thats anough for me to just try it out Cool

Nikolae Varius
Amarr
Mongrel Squad
Posted - 2008.11.10 13:43:00 - [22]
 

Note however that apoc with conflag gets the dps that baddon with scorch gets.

Kira Kasumi
Posted - 2008.11.10 15:52:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
Looks are subjective. I for one love the Apoc hull, although i do wish they didn't reverse the colors of the Pally...

But if you're playing just for looks, why aren't you complaining that level 4's are so difficult in a Cruor or Dramiel? Or even an Anathema? :P


its not that im "playing just for looks" but when you have 3 ships that can do exactly the same dps and can all tank level 4 without much problems, i just cant see a reason to pay an extra 800mill for an uglyer ship, on the other hand i would pay it for the nightmare, a better looking ship but i dont have the caldari SP's

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2008.11.10 18:44:00 - [24]
 

I like the Abaddon. It doesn't have the damage potential of the other two ships, but the thing tanks very well. Stick on two LARs and 3-4 mission specific hardeners and, unless you seriously botch aggression, you'll never have a problem. You won't be able to complete the missions as quickly as you would with the other standard battleships, but your risk is extremely low.

What can I say. I'm usually pretty lazy when I run missions. ugh

Zionysus
Posted - 2008.11.12 07:13:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Layla Ashley
Originally by: Zionysus

Actually, you do need the range.
[...]

Abaddon is as good as the Paladin because it does the same damage with a tank that is adequate. The Paladin pulls ahead in terms of ease of use and the tractor bonus, the Abaddon negates it IMO because you dont need to spend 800 mil on just the hull, and because it doesn't run the missions any faster.



please give the abaddon fitting you are thinking about, ie the one using 8 tachyons, 3 hs, 1-2 tracking computers, a tank strong enough for lvl 4 missions and enough cap to run it through long missions


you could go the expensive route-

8 TS Tachyons

Heavy cap booster II
2 cap recharger II
SS tracking comp

x-type LAR
2 specific hardeners
cpr
3 TS heatsinks

ACR II
ACR I
CCC I

(still need 5% grid hardwire)

^cap stable w/ charges, can replace cpr with another hardener if you wish. 1025 dps should clear out most missions faster than you run out of charges. If not, you're doing it wrong.

you could also go with this one (still expensive, but w/e, no marauders to train)

8 tach II

heavy cap boosterII
faction AB/cap recharger II
cap rechargerII
SS tracking comp

x-type LAR
3 hardeners
3 ts heatsinks

3 acr I

requires 1% grid, 5% cpu if you fit the AB, no implants if you use the 2nd cap recharger. puts out 915 gun dps, so seriously, if you run out of charges before you eliminate the major threats to your ship, you're doing it wrong.

yeah, missions like angel extra would be difficult, but if your running angel extra in a tachyon abaddon you've got bigger problems.

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:22:00 - [26]
 

Using a cap booster on missions is just daft. Both the Abaddon and Paladin can easily fit a perma-tank. Sure, you lose some DPS, but the added sustainability is very welcome. You really don't want the liability of running out of charges in the middle of a stage, let alone having to warp back and forth between a station to pick up new ones.

kyrv
Posted - 2008.11.12 12:31:00 - [27]
 

As a rule of thumb the +defense ships are best at mission running


 

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