| Author |
Topic |
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate |
Posted - 2008.10.27 05:41:00 - [ 1]
I am still having problems justifying the cost of Mauraders for my mission running. I still haven't gotten a Golem for Cloora as her Faction pimped CNR seems to do just a good a job as any Golem setup I see.
Now my Amarr alt has the skills for a Paladin but again it seems that my well setup Abaddon or Apoc will do just as well.
Anyone that has been running a Paly have any input on why they are so much better?
If it is salvaging then I don't really care because I have another alt that salvages in a Cormorant anyway. I'm just looking for kill speed or tank increases. |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.10.27 06:10:00 - [ 2]
navy apoc > paladin paladin does have higher resists and due to the bonus it can rep more but the first 1 bonuses of the paladin are wasted apoc gets builtin bonus cap wise and webby.. ummm yeah thenn we got the no extra range bonus so your gona have to fit beams beams dont fit unless you add a faction pdu or an rcu II then we got the rep bonus even the rep bonus doesnt make for a dual repped tank so we have to fit another repper anyways and because the navy apoc has 8 not 7 slots and doesnt need the pdu/rcu we can fit another heatsink and megapulses wich makes that 5% damage bonus sort of meh unless you train marauder 5  the cargohold of 1125 is not big enough for allot of missions anyways so most you can do is get your cans together for ease of pickup ... but then again a destroyer is quite fast anyway... wich leaves us with rig slots of wich the navy apoc again has 3 and the paladin 2 giving the navy apoc even more cap to play with leaves us with the iskies navy apoc is cheaper sooo as a final comparison we have a very good ship that can make painfully big holes at a good range for nothing or i suppose if you realy wanted to u could use navy crystals or conflags ... or if your borred you can obliterate anything within 70k because the dps with scorch is still prety awesome and then we have a horribly overpriced albeit goodlooking bucket thats barly better than an apoc and a tiny bit better than a navy apoc at dishing out the hurt but only if you have marauder 5 |
Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation |
Posted - 2008.10.27 07:22:00 - [ 3]
Except that beams + damage bonus are preferable to pulse + range bonus.
More damage, range is easily enough (40km optimal with multifreq on tachs), don't have to eat Scorch L which is really expensive and can instead use faction ammo...
paladin + beams compared to navypoc + pulse:
Paladin has more damage
Paladin has enough range
Paladin can use faction ammo instead of T2 ammo which lasts about 150% longer (I think it's 4000 t2 / 10000 faction)
Paladin can use 4 crystals instead of 8 crystals (halve ammo costs)
Paladin's guns eat crystals more slowly (beams have lower RoF)
I don't really like the navypoc for missioning. You can do missions just fine in a regular apocalypse with 3 heat sinks, so what is the extra low really going to give you on the navypoc?
You can make the navypoc a little less cap stable though and give it 2x locus rigs and a TE in the extra low, though, which gives you like 30k multifrequency optimal or something.
I'd rather have a tachyon paladin.
|
Elhina Novae
HAMMER -N- SICKEL
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 07:57:00 - [ 4]
Paladins Web bonus is useless, waste of mid slot.
But it does have more damage with its 5% damage bonus / marauder level.
Either you use a Paladin with 3 x Heat sinks + Tracking Computer and Tachyons/Megapulse w. Scorch. |
Dorah Hawkwing
Old Galactic Earth Regiment
Dragoon Federation |
Posted - 2008.10.27 09:02:00 - [ 5]
Paladin is cap stable running 4 Tachyons and 3 HS.
I'd dearly love to the the abbadon repeat THAT feat.
Paladin has a cap stable tank able to make enemies abound 5/5 without warpouts running DB LAR, 3* faction HS, 4 hardeners, 3 Cap rechargers and 2 CCC rigs. (also 4 Tachyon II's and tractors)
On the apoc, I'd have to ditch the HS for Cap Power Relays to achive the same, not to mention the Tachyon II's won't fit.
Paladin allows you to shoot and loot /salvage at the same time without gimping your DPS.
Paladin gets jammed by any ship fitting multispec on a chance in the mids though, so for PvP I'll take any off the T1 ships, they do nicely there. |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire |
Posted - 2008.10.27 10:30:00 - [ 6]
paladin is an instant sb/frig killer tough fitted with tach beams
med fullw ith sensorboosters and navy radio cristals.
can alomoste insta lock and pew pew at 105 km..
hehe the never expect that comming ill tell u :P
Bit risky tough.. |
Rajere
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel |
Posted - 2008.10.27 10:54:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: Rajere on 27/10/2008 11:00:44 Quote:
paladin is an instant sb/frig killer tough fitted with tach beams
med fullw ith sensorboosters and navy radio cristals.
can alomoste insta lock and pew pew at 105 km..
hehe the never expect that comming ill tell u :P
Bit risky tough..
I've seen him do it: http://notr.darkfrontier.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14909Caracal was toying with us on the gate, when the rest of our gang jumped in the caracal warped to the station and the kitsune warped after him @ 100km to station to see what was there. He was dead before he even knew what hit him, popped faster than it takes a frigate to align or get to speed. made fun of him endlessly for losing that btw |
Lady Aja |
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:10:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
navy apoc > paladin
paladin does have higher resists and due to the bonus it can rep more
but
the first 1 bonuses of the paladin are wasted apoc gets builtin bonus cap wise and webby.. ummm yeah
thenn we got the no extra range bonus so your gona have to fit beams
beams dont fit unless you add a faction pdu or an rcu II
then we got the rep bonus
even the rep bonus doesnt make for a dual repped tank so we have to fit another repper anyways
and because the navy apoc has 8 not 7 slots and doesnt need the pdu/rcu we can fit another heatsink and megapulses
wich makes that 5% damage bonus sort of meh
unless you train marauder 5
the cargohold of 1125 is not big enough for allot of missions anyways so most you can do is get your cans together for ease of pickup ... but then again a destroyer is quite fast anyway...
wich leaves us with rig slots
of wich the navy apoc again has 3 and the paladin 2 giving the navy apoc even more cap to play with
leaves us with the iskies
navy apoc is cheaper
sooo as a final comparison we have
a very good ship that can make painfully big holes at a good range for nothing or i suppose if you realy wanted to u could use navy crystals or conflags ... or if your borred you can obliterate anything within 70k because the dps with scorch is still prety awesome
and then we have a horribly overpriced albeit goodlooking bucket thats barly better than an apoc and a tiny bit better than a navy apoc at dishing out the hurt but only if you have marauder 5
DUDE you have no idea how to run a paladin AT ALL! if you cant run it 100% cap stable with 4 t2 tachs and a faction LAR then youre one HUGE fail. the paladin can also run a dua LAR using MEGA PULSE II's very easy if you know how.. please don give advise when youre not 100% clued up. |
Lady Aja |
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:24:00 - [ 9]
Edited by: Lady Aja on 27/10/2008 14:24:57
Edited by: Lady Aja for errors.. on 27/10/2008 14:24:23
oh just so you know what the two cap stable setups for a paladin is using t2 tachs or Dual LAR's...
there they are...
Tach setup
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
3x hardenrs to suit or maybe a omni tank
Heat Sink II x3
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Stasis Webifier II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L x4
Capacitor Control Circuit I x2
Dual LAR setup...
Large Armor Repairer II x2
Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane x3 ( like running 4 faction hardners altho active also works )
Capacitor Power Relay II x2
Cap Recharger II x3
Stasis Webifier II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L x4
Rigs to suit |
Commander Thrawn
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless- |
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:25:00 - [ 10]
|
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide. |
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:34:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Lady Aja
Edited by: Lady Aja on 27/10/2008 14:24:57
there they are...
Tach setup
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
3x hardenrs to suit or maybe a omni tank
Heat Sink II x3
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Dual LAR setup...
Capacitor Power Relay II x2
Cap Recharger II x3
Stasis Webifier II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L x4
Rigs to suit
Omg, you achura tell us he has no clue how to fit Paladin and then show setups with cap recharges? Seems fuzzy logic is way to popular these days.  |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire |
Posted - 2008.10.27 15:10:00 - [ 12]
Originally by: Rajere
Edited by: Rajere on 27/10/2008 11:00:44
Quote:
paladin is an instant sb/frig killer tough fitted with tach beams
med fullw ith sensorboosters and navy radio cristals.
can alomoste insta lock and pew pew at 105 km..
hehe the never expect that comming ill tell u :P
Bit risky tough..
I've seen him do it:
http://notr.darkfrontier.com/kb/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14909
Caracal was toying with us on the gate, when the rest of our gang jumped in the caracal warped to the station and the kitsune warped after him @ 100km to station to see what was there. He was dead before he even knew what hit him, popped faster than it takes a frigate to align or get to speed.
made fun of him endlessly for losing that btw
:D thanks.. wasnt personal tough ^^ |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.10.27 15:17:00 - [ 13]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 27/10/2008 15:26:08depends on your missioning style also depends on your t2 ammo cost *cough* edit : also my t1 ammo is the cheapest of them all suppose i should have added that ah well lesson learned : explain in more detail |
Lady Aja |
Posted - 2008.10.27 19:28:00 - [ 14]
|
TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band |
Posted - 2008.10.27 19:42:00 - [ 15]
|
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 19:49:00 - [ 16]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 27/10/2008 19:49:26 Originally by: TimMc
I was more surprised the setup is using T1 rigs and t2 fittings, rather than t2 rigs and complex/faction fittings.
Maybe even use t20 rigs and fit - you know, dev ones. I run paladin on everything T2 + 1x amarr LAR + 3x amarr sink. De facto i could run every mission with t2 LAR too but i had one spare amarr LAR so i put it on the ship. O yea - pulse paladin, i hate tachys. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE |
Posted - 2008.10.27 21:04:00 - [ 17]
|
Lady Aja |
Posted - 2008.10.27 23:26:00 - [ 18]
|
Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
Dead poets society
The Laughing Men |
Posted - 2008.10.27 23:47:00 - [ 19]
Paladin looks cooler, nuff said. |
Reiisha
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.10.28 16:07:00 - [ 20]
Paladin has the best natural cap of any ship in the game. If you can't manage to run 4 tachs and a LAR you probably lack some skills - controlled bursts and other cap skills.
My own setup may be a bit weird, but it works for pretty much every level 4 mission out there.
4 tachs, 2 small nos (just to fill high slots :P) and a tractor beam in the highs. faction multi's as ammo, gives me about 50km effective range (optimal plus effective falloff), which is enough for anything.
4 cap rechargers in the mids. No web, i use drones to kill anything that manages to get close enough. In some missions i just aggro the entire thing, let out the drones and go afk for a bit :P
An amarr LAR and a combination of faction hardeners in the lows, but just 1 heat sink. Missing out on some damage, but the tank will hold pretty much anything. I get 80% resists on all 4 types almost exactly with my current combination, and i put some aux pumps in the lows.
The entire setup is completely cap stable, does more than enough dps and can tank everything forever :)
Sort of, anyway. It's just relaxed to run missions with, not as hectic as it would be with an abaddon or apoc. Same will go for the other marauders vs their normal counterparts. |
IceCream Man
Caldari
Aslord Corp |
Posted - 2008.10.28 18:00:00 - [ 21]
[Paladin, New Setup 1]
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Capacitor Control Circuit II
Capacitor Control Circuit II
i like running missions with this setup.
3 range scripts, the optimal on MF crystal goes to 46km
3 tracking scripts, it track better than pulse with scorch.
with excellent skills and implants you cna get hits like this:
[ 2008.10.21 01:00:13 ] Your Tachyon Beam Laser II perfectly strikes Alvus Ruler, wrecking for 5207.6 damage.
|
Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell |
Posted - 2008.10.28 18:15:00 - [ 22]
Can i throw in the argument that the paladin can salvage on the fly without needing to re-setup ? Its not a big thing, but it is a thing. |
Pry Maraai
Amarr
Hyper-Nova |
Posted - 2008.10.28 19:28:00 - [ 23]
Paladins strength is in its possibility have the mission looted/salvaged in the same time it takes to do it. (Without haveing to waste multiple accounts). I think it will be hard to find another ship that does this faster than a pulse paladin.
A small bonus is the low ammo use.
If all you want is to complete the mission as fast as possible, you would want a nightmare with tachyons. After that I suppose a tachyon abaddon or paladin would work, and if on a budget apoc. (Navy apoc isnt that much different, its just 1 more low slot). |
Weeka
GET A JOB |
Posted - 2008.10.28 21:05:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: Dorah Hawkwing
Paladin has a cap stable tank able to make enemies abound 5/5 without warpouts running DB LAR, 3* faction HS, 4 hardeners, 3 Cap rechargers and 2 CCC rigs.
WTB Paladin with 8 low slots |
Lady Aja |
Posted - 2008.10.29 15:22:00 - [ 25]
Originally by: Pry Maraai
Paladins strength is in its possibility have the mission looted/salvaged in the same time it takes to do it. (Without haveing to waste multiple accounts). I think it will be hard to find another ship that does this faster than a pulse paladin.
A small bonus is the low ammo use.
If all you want is to complete the mission as fast as possible, you would want a nightmare with tachyons. After that I suppose a tachyon abaddon or paladin would work, and if on a budget apoc. (Navy apoc isnt that much different, its just 1 more low slot).
megapulse II's only have a max range of abourt 25km with MF's... I am gathering youre using a 100mn AB? ? if so what a waste. just use the standard tach pali... |
Angelo Dell'Agio |
Posted - 2008.10.29 16:33:00 - [ 26]
With a number of changes on sisi the web bonus on the paladin is becoming mightily attractive. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide. |
Posted - 2008.10.29 16:52:00 - [ 27]
Originally by: Lady Aja
no cap with paladon = no damage/tank.. counting on cap booster charges in a mission to mainain a tank is plain STUPID.
Yeah, cause everything that achura-farmers tell is 100% truth |
Nocturnal Avenger
Sebiestor Tribe |
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:03:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Cloora
I am still having problems justifying the cost of Mauraders for my mission running.
Why? It's not like the isk is wasted (except that the marauder price is dropping a bit more). Or are you planning on losing your ship to rats? |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE |
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:14:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: Lady Aja
DUDE you have no idea how to run a paladin AT ALL!
if you cant run it 100% cap stable with 4 t2 tachs and a faction LAR then youre one HUGE fail.
the paladin can also run a dua LAR using MEGA PULSE II's very easy if you know how..
please don give advise when youre not 100% clued up.
Was thinking similar things. My guess is he has very low skills. For one, with max cap skills and regular t2 tank, I never need more than a single t2 LAR in any mission - the only exception is the Worlds Collide bonus room, but I swap out my Tachyons for a Pulses there and throw in a 2nd repper and it's all fine. If the Paladin is worth it or not.. I never bothered to buy one even tho I can. My alt is running Amarr missions in a CNR instead, considering that around a third of the Sansha/Blood raider missions has enough TD to make the missile boats faster, and the that Serpentis/Guristas is quite frequent (not as much as Mercenaries and Drones, but enough).. if you count the time you spend on missions over say, 100 ran, the CNR equals the Amarr BS speed. And it saves you the frustration in the slow missions. Amarr BS goes rollercoaster too much for my liking. Fast in some missions and slow in others. But if I had to pick.. Navypoc, Paladin, Nightmare, they're all fine, you make the money for the ship in short time anyway. Paladin should make missions slightly faster, it'd be worth it in the long run. |
Lady Aja |
Posted - 2008.10.29 17:30:00 - [ 30]
Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger
Originally by: Cloora
I am still having problems justifying the cost of Mauraders for my mission running.
Why?
It's not like the isk is wasted (except that the marauder price is dropping a bit more).
Or are you planning on losing your ship to rats?
considering most marauders wer like 1b isk when they first came out... I think 650m isk + is a great price.. |
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