| Author |
Topic |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.10.27 06:21:00 - [ 31]
 Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Liang Nuren
stuff
-Liang
K, please GTFO then. Don't forget to biomass your character.
Warhammer? Lol. Enjoy your LOLICRASH every 5 minutes and LOLMEANINGLESS PvP. LOLIGRIND and LOLWOWCLONE.
I will enjoy non-cookie cutter fits on an all new combat system and will be owning people just as well as I used to. When the game changes, I adapt.
Talentless blaster pilots who only know how to F1 F2 F3 etc are getting hit bad, and I can't say I will miss them. Also if you think 25% of the customer base is leaving then you are out of your mind.
Post your useless nonconstructive posts in the War forums now.
its F1 only now  p.s. the only reason why im not in warhammer is because it doesnt fulfill my internet spaceships craving no game atm does  |
XFreedomX |
Posted - 2008.10.27 08:03:00 - [ 32]
Maybe Nozh forget to mention that ship bonus will apply to all size turrets and launchers? |
Ceremony Garp
Gallente
Aliastra |
Posted - 2008.10.27 11:22:00 - [ 33]
Edited by: Ceremony Garp on 27/10/2008 11:33:06 Originally by: Liang Nuren
...similar to watching the magnifying glass approach the ant...)
-Liang
Bah, Liang's not going anywhere. See, he's still talking about popping Thorax'.  |
Aaron Mirrorsaver
The Scope |
Posted - 2008.10.27 12:11:00 - [ 34]
not that im complaining, but even my cruiser sized medium short range lasers have more range than large blasters.
|
ZW Dewitt |
Posted - 2008.10.27 12:21:00 - [ 35]
You know what... Nozh is right. Don't like it? Then don't use a BS to combat smaller ships. There are multiple ship classes for a reason, learn to use them. The idea that bigger is automatically better in this game needs to die off. |
Qui Shon |
Posted - 2008.10.27 12:56:00 - [ 36]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Meh, if you are interested in my viewpoint, I'm sure you could find me in a real PVP game...
Quote:
And then I suppose it's worth commenting on what drew me into Eve in the first place - the ability to use team mechanics to kick people's asses.
If you wanted a real PvP game, where team mechanics rule, you should go for Battleground Europe (aka WW2 Online as it used to be known.) Unless of course a) it's too difficult or demanding for you b) graphics come before gameplay for you |
Semkhet
Dark Tornado
Ethereal Dawn |
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:15:00 - [ 37]
Originally by: Qui Shon
If you wanted a real PvP game, where team mechanics rule, you should go for Battleground Europe (aka WW2 Online as it used to be known.)
Unless of course
a) it's too difficult or demanding for you
b) graphics come before gameplay for you
Actually, could you enlighten us about the supranatural abilities allowing you to define for others which kind of PvP and framework should suit them ? No, honestly, I'm really interested to know if by any chance you're implying supposed limitations of another player while not realizing that you're actually just emphasizing you own ones  Go back to the drawing board, nubtard, and learn to fill the space between form and substance... |
Qui Shon |
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:20:00 - [ 38]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 27/10/2008 14:38:58 Originally by: Semkhet
Actually, could you enlighten us about the supranatural abilities allowing you to define for others which kind of PvP and framework should suit them ?
No, honestly, I'm really interested to know if by any chance you're implying supposed limitations of another player while not realizing that you're actually just emphasizing you own ones
Go back to the drawing board, nubtard, and learn to fill the space between form and substance...
Actually, doofus, the qualifiers were set by the OP. (They were "real PvP" where "team mechanics" play an important role, in case you missed 'em.) So to answer your question, my supranatural abilities in this case are composed of... <drumroll>...reading skills! Now ain't that somethin' Looking at your response, I can see why you would consider that supranatural. I even quoted the exact lines I was responding to for chrissake. |
Imaos |
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:33:00 - [ 39]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Vanthropy
Liang, i think you took Nozh's statement the wrong way.
if you want to be able to kill cruisers in your battleship.. fit medium guns
he's just saying adapt... or die
there is no rule that says you shouldn't fit undersized (or unbonused) guns on your battleship, the only reason that that was so firmly believed is that you could kill **** far easier with your big guns and you didn't have to worry about a smaller ship at all. now you do, and if smaller ships are all you are worried about.. take the proper countermeasures.
Eh, I know that I for one won't be fitting blasters to my thron anymore. Or anything else, for that matter. Or any other ship. I'm just here for the lulz at this point - Warhammer nicely fills my PVP cravings... and it doesn't have the "LOLISUCK" interface and "LOLLIFESUCKS" PVE mechanics that Eve has. ;-)
Although I have to admit that it's really funny to read CCP Zulupark's answers - they don't care if 25% of the Eve subscriber base leaves, and when he was in the balancing team he *DID NOT PLAY EVE* (has been largely inactive in game since he joined CCP).
-Liang
I feel real sorry for your PvP cravings. If you need a game where the disparity between realms is so big that one force dominates all and the other only manages to get a foothold for an hour if a big guild of that faction has an event... Not to mention the class balance between the realms (which would be really bad if not everyone would be crave for a bad guy character). Do you play destruction? Imaos |
Semkhet
Dark Tornado
Ethereal Dawn |
Posted - 2008.10.27 14:53:00 - [ 40]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Actually, doofus, the qualifiers were set by the OP. (They were "real PvP" where "team mechanics" play an important role, in case you missed 'em.)
So to answer your question, my supranatural abilities in this case are composed of... <drumroll>...reading skills! Now ain't that somethin'
Looking at your response, I can see why you would consider that supranatural. I even quoted the exact lines I was responding to for chrissake.
The qualifiers were not only set by the op, but also further modulated by your interpretative skills (or lack thereof...). But I know, most people live a happy life when limiting their cognitive processes by handling only entities perceived as absolute, and that they can't understand zilch about any speck implying a degree of abstraction slightly beyond their imagination doesn't bother them You're right. Reading comprehension is the first step. Provided your metrics integrate context and meaning as well... |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:11:00 - [ 41]
Originally by: Imaos
I feel real sorry for your PvP cravings. If you need a game where the disparity between realms is so big that one force dominates all and the other only manages to get a foothold for an hour if a big guild of that faction has an event...
Hmm, I don't have a problem with that, really. In fact, I find that even relatively small groups are capable of screwing over the Destro noobs that try to play. ;-) Quote:
Not to mention the class balance between the realms (which would be really bad if not everyone would be crave for a bad guy character).
Do you play destruction?
Imaos
No, I play Order, actually... you should have been able to tell from my sig. Moar Targets and all that. It's actually really cool because me and a couple of buddies wander out and start killing Destro nubs en mass because we work (gasp) as a team. -Liang |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:13:00 - [ 42]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt
You know what... Nozh is right. Don't like it? Then don't use a BS to combat smaller ships. There are multiple ship classes for a reason, learn to use them. The idea that bigger is automatically better in this game needs to die off.
No, the answer is really not to use blaster battleships solo or in small gangs, because they lack the ability to provide fire support vs small things. Then don't bring them to large gangs because they lack the ability to get into range. So we have: - Don't fly blaster battleships solo - Don't fly blaster battleships in small gangs - Don't fly blaster ships in large gangs Yep, so basically: don't fly blaster ships at all. Fantastic! Nozh is wrong. -Liang |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:15:00 - [ 43]
Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky
I would like to have seen you up north here having fun 'teamwork' style fights before you left. . .
but hai, keep training for them capitals. Remember, Dread 5 - thats the secrit to your return. . .without ghost-training though /cry
That's kinda my point - Eve doesn't have game mechanics geared towards meaningful team play. That said, IIRC, I was there to the bitter end, flying my Muninn, Pest, and Scorpion. -Liang |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:21:00 - [ 44]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
K, please GTFO then. Don't forget to biomass your character.
Ok. Quote:
Warhammer? Lol. Enjoy your LOLICRASH every 5 minutes and LOLMEANINGLESS PvP. LOLIGRIND and LOLWOWCLONE.
Addressing your points in order: - I don't crash every 5 minutes. Maybe your PC sucks? - I don't think that internet spaceshipz has meaningful PVP either on that scale - but what Warhammer does have is fun PVP. - I haven't noticed any sort of grind in Warhammer... unless PVP itself is grinding for you? - It would make an exceptionally bad WOW Clone. In the words of Penny Arcade: making potions is something I do when I'm not murdering people. Quote:
I will enjoy non-cookie cutter fits on an all new combat system and will be owning people just as well as I used to. When the game changes, I adapt.
Eh, you can feel free to relearn all the not-fun things about Eve that you want to. And it's not as though I wouldn't survive the nerf (strictly speaking) based purely on skillpoints. There's simply not many niches that I don't fill just off the bat. Quote:
Talentless blaster pilots who only know how to F1 F2 F3 etc are getting hit bad, and I can't say I will miss them. Also if you think 25% of the customer base is leaving then you are out of your mind.
I've already addressed your point, but really there's no valid reason to train Large Blaster Spec at all after this patch. Well, no reason other than the "some day over the rainbow pie in the sky" reason that they might unnerf blasters. BS Blasters can't be used solo (they only work vs battleships) BS Blasters can't be used in small gangs (Not effective DPS support due to lack of versatility) BS Blasters can't be used in large gangs (getting into range/bringing DPS to bear) Quote:
Post your useless nonconstructive posts in the War forums now.
Actually, my posts there are largely constructive - same as here. The problem is that I think it's constructive at this point to point out that CCP is ****ing over their own game. Maybe if enough people yell about it, they'll stop the madness. -Liang |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:25:00 - [ 45]
Originally by: NoNah
That said, honestly this isn't the first time you've left EVE.
It actually is. Last time I was trying to trade Liang for an Amarr character. Can't say I didn't see alot of that coming well before it hit ;-) Quote:
Don't get me wrong, you leaving would be a loss and you're one of the few capable of keeping an argument in here.
Yeah, I'll miss alot of the brighter people in these forums (even Lyria... for all her damn trolling.. haha) Quote:
So... worst of cases... see you in a couple of months o/
I really doubt it, tbh. Hell Liang's subscription is good til March 2009 .. Such a waste of cash. -Liang |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:26:00 - [ 46]
Originally by: FT Diomedes
Just remove the bonus to Large Hybrid Weapons, and change it to bonus to Hybrid Weapons. Would make for some interesting setups. :)
I happen to agree with this... if they're going to ruin BS Blasters, they may as well fix this oversight. It should be done across the board as well. -Liang |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:27:00 - [ 47]
Originally by: Kadoes Khan
Nozh indicated that if you want your BS to effectively combat smaller ships without outside assistance you should consider using smaller weapons. The idea is ridiculous because most people care about 1 value: EFT DPS(with reloads turned off no less). So fitting anything less than maxmium DPS sounds absurd, the result is you have **** sig resolution and tracking and you can't hit smaller ships.
/facepalm The idea is ridiculous because it: (a) Ignores ship bonuses. (b) Makes you unable to fight ships of your own ship class successfully. It's called 'get a battlecruiser'. There is no reason to fly a BS with medium guns over a battlecruiser, ever. Originally by: Kadoes Khan
If all you want to do is click approach and F1(oh yes, after QR you won't even need F2-F8 anymore!) and pwn face then you may be a little surprised, you have to think about other aspects of the tracking formula like transversal, the tracking speed of your guns, your sig resolution vs opponent sig radius.
You can 'think' about them as much as you like, but with MWDs being disabled by scramblers, there is absolutely no way for a non-comedy fit to reduce transversal in webrange by movement (except by webbing, but it takes two webs to be able to hit ships one size down). |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2008.10.27 16:31:00 - [ 48]
|
Qui Shon |
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:07:00 - [ 49]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 27/10/2008 17:07:38 Originally by: Semkhet
The qualifiers were not only set by the op, but also further modulated by your interpretative skills (or lack thereof...).
That goes without saying, since anyone with at least half a brain realizes "real PvP" is not an objective, quantifiable factor. Or it should go without saying, but evidently some would need it pointed out to them. Your mistake was responding to my original reply as if it wasn't a directed response to earlier statements by Liang, but a general statement coming out of the blue. Now you're trying to score flame points by quite hilarious attacks on me, without ever having corrected your fundamental error. That's one of two things which make your attacks pathetic. The other is the content of said attacks But I'm sure you get a kick out of what you no doubt perceive as your own linguistic brilliance, as certain types of people are apt to lean toward self admiration, so do go on. It also serves as comedy for the rest of us. |
Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group |
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:10:00 - [ 50]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: ZW Dewitt
You know what... Nozh is right. Don't like it? Then don't use a BS to combat smaller ships. There are multiple ship classes for a reason, learn to use them. The idea that bigger is automatically better in this game needs to die off.
No, the answer is really not to use blaster battleships solo or in small gangs, because they lack the ability to provide fire support vs small things. Then don't bring them to large gangs because they lack the ability to get into range.
So we have:
- Don't fly blaster battleships solo
- Don't fly blaster battleships in small gangs
- Don't fly blaster ships in large gangs
Yep, so basically: don't fly blaster ships at all. Fantastic!
Nozh is wrong.
-Liang
This. Though, the Kronos I own will work, shame I can't afford to lose too many of those doing my thing...  Sad to see you go, I'll be staying, but only because I'm Stubborn and I have all SP and 4 1/2 years invested in Gallente Blasterboats. Wish us luck!...  |
Semkhet
Dark Tornado
Ethereal Dawn |
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:12:00 - [ 51]
If Liang leaves, I doubt he will be sad except maybe for loosing contact with his m8's since if he's coherent, leaving will imply that EvE has lost its appeal from his perspective. IMHO, there are 4 elements which make a game a good game. Complexity, capitalization of the time spent playing, unpredictability and fun. As it stands nowadays, EvE's time capitalization is a delusion. Unpredictability is going down the drain at exponential pace. With each passing day complexity is relocated to the realm of simple minds since strategy is being leveled to lowest common factor, and fun is a remembrance of past good ol'times. It wouldn't cost me anything to grab a Revelation, an Abso, a BS or any other ship to have fun. Fact is that there must be quite a deep structural & conceptual problem in EvE if so many players, skilled and not skilled, vets and noobs, all found fun in flying nanos and embraced small gang or skirmish warfare above any other kind of warfare. I'm giving myself a few additional months to see where this game is heading after the speed nerf. I would welcome being utterly wrong, but if everything remains more or less how I expect it to turn out according to what can be seen on SiSi, I'll happily move to other pastures. Life is too damn short to loose the little free time I enjoy in such futile way |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc. |
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:36:00 - [ 52]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt
You know what... Nozh is right. Don't like it? Then don't use a BS to combat smaller ships. There are multiple ship classes for a reason, learn to use them. The idea that bigger is automatically better in this game needs to die off.
Learn to post with a Main first! People have her reason to use a BS like they got her reason to use a Hac or a BC. Try to catch things in a BS and you might understand this. Big suprice but most of the time, the smaller ships come to you, not you to them in a BS. Also the change does affect little in Gangs small ships will still die, you can´t orbit anything, once you got Scram and multipe Webs on you you are still dead and if you want to state that a solo BS is overpowert than you are just wrong, it is a ship that got a use, like any other class in the game... So the nerf only hits "suprice" solo BS. Right, solo needs a serious nerf hands down because anybody does it and it is ****ing easy in a BS. Try again. |
Arshes Nei
LifeLine Solutions
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:40:00 - [ 53]
I find it funny that you complain about about blasterships solo capabilities, while at the same time giving high praise to warhammer, which isnt balanced around solo pvp AT ALL(i was magus/squigherder among others). So your web sucks? Well get more than one web on a target and whoopdido old web effect. Yeah pulsegeddons are hot, they always where. But they dont help keeping targets down, which becomes increasingly important with the weaker webs to stop people from crawling to the safety of stations/gates in smaller gangs. More than 5 people pulsegeddon > blasterthron. Less than 5 people pulsegeddon < blasterthron. Like all ships/setups its totally situational which is superior. Yeah i wouldnt fly a blasterthron for solo or large gang pvp after the patch, maybe in a 3 man gang or somesuch. But suddenly ALOT of other ships became lots more viable like HACs or AFs. So yeah for every shiptype/setup that gets ruinied by these changes you get a couple others that get more viable. I dont care what a dev says, fitting undersized guns on BS is something i will never do. If i fly a BS i want to hit other BS, if i want to kill BC and smaller i fly BC and smaller, if i fly with a gang i try to compliment my gang by flying the kind of ship that helps the most to balance the gang(within reason, i dont fly shiptypes i dont like  ). Really this changes brings MORE teamplay into eve, because maybe, just maybe there is a reason to fly something besides a BS/dictor/covops in a non nano gang now. P.S.: Considering that this change is part of the reason i came back i find it ironic that its the reason your leaving. I left over half a year ago because i was sick of flying in nanogangs and huge BS blobs(actually i was sick of flying BS at all, never liked em), i hope things will change now. |
Kadoes Khan |
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:49:00 - [ 54]
Quote:
Ha, but what you seem to be missing is that if I'm going to be fitting cruiser blasters, maybe I should be using a ship that has a bonus for them? Why use 7 eff blasters worth of damage, completely forget about my damage bonuses, etc... when I can have far more than that?
No, you're missing the boat here. If you're reduced to fitting sub-bs blasters to your BS, they you are flying the wrong ship.
People fly punishers with AC's despite having a bonus to laser cap use, Are they using the wrong ship? People use small weapons on arbitrators are all the time are they flying the wrong ship? No. Let's look at the dominix, you could fit the thing WITHOUT guns and still have it be extremely effective. So if you fit neuts on your Domi instead of BS sized weapons according to your theory that would be the wrong ship? Despite the Neut domi being arguably the best 1v1(aka solo) battleship around? Clearly I've misunderstood your argument somewhere and you should clarify more. Quote:
I know all about the weapon linking they're doing. Neat idea - they should have done it 5 years ago. That said, as a Minmatar pilot, I have a fairly good idea of how that stuff works. Actually, I'd be willing to bet that I have a much better understanding of it than you do.
Plain and simple, we don't just not have an "i-win" button, we don't even have a damned button after this.
I don't disagree you likely understand it better than I do, and I actually said as much in some of the threads on the test boards but the fact is you never apply them unless you flying a nano ship. The fact you think the formula stops applying when you get into your big ship is clear. Watch nearly every pvp video out there and unless the BS is nano they just click approach and sit beside each other until one of them dies. Even orbiting at 20m/s has benefits, especially so in a ship like a mega where you have a huge tracking bonus. You could drop down simply to Ions(6%) or Electrons(15%) both provide superior tracking at the expense of damage, which technically results in an increase in damage anyways if you were having trouble hitting. Quote:
What, that I expect each player on a team to have a role, and each player to do that role, and that I expect PVP to be fun and plentiful?
Ahh each player of a team? So why not just get your buddy in the cruiser, HAC, ceptor or whatever to kill him if your in a fleet? Your role in a BS isn't fly(ceptor/AF) swatting or even clubbing baby seals(hac/recon etc) your "role" is to get down in the mud and duke it out with other BS sized ships, or at least that's what it would appear to be post patch. |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 17:54:00 - [ 55]
Originally by: Arshes Nei
I find it funny that you complain about about blasterships solo capabilities, while at the same time giving high praise to warhammer, which isnt balanced around solo pvp AT ALL(i was magus/squigherder among others).
I've had some excellent solo Warhammer kills with my Shadow Warrior. ;-) Quote:
So your web sucks? Well get more than one web on a target and whoopdido old web effect. Yeah pulsegeddons are hot, they always where. But they dont help keeping targets down, which becomes increasingly important with the weaker webs to stop people from crawling to the safety of stations/gates in smaller gangs.
Actually, it isn't the same old web effect. Quote:
More than 5 people pulsegeddon > blasterthron.
True. Quote:
Less than 5 people pulsegeddon < blasterthron.
False, because < 5 people and you still have the problem of getting into range, and as far as blasters go, would be utterly unable to deal effective damage to anything that isn't another battleship. Lasers, OTOH, don't have to get into range and start dealing effective damage to friggies and cruisers at their optimal. Blasters are a special case because they rely upon webs to deal effective damage. ;-) Quote:
Like all ships/setups its totally situational which is superior. Yeah i wouldnt fly a blasterthron for solo or large gang pvp after the patch, maybe in a 3 man gang or somesuch. But suddenly ALOT of other ships became lots more viable like HACs or AFs. So yeah for every shiptype/setup that gets ruinied by these changes you get a couple others that get more viable.
Eh, HACs are certainly not getting more viable because of the patch, though I grant that AFs are. And you're also forgetting the mass Minmatar nerf, and the mass Gallente nerf. Really, what you're saying is that if we remove Gallente/Minmatar from the game that Caldari/Amarr get better by default. Quote:
I dont care what a dev says, fitting undersized guns on BS is something i will never do. If i fly a BS i want to hit other BS, if i want to kill BC and smaller i fly BC and smaller, if i fly with a gang i try to compliment my gang by flying the kind of ship that helps the most to balance the gang(within reason, i dont fly shiptypes i dont like ).
I won't be fitting undersized guns to my ships either, and I'm shocked/insulted that the devs are balancing BS's around this idea. Quote:
Really this changes brings MORE teamplay into eve, because maybe, just maybe there is a reason to fly something besides a BS/dictor/covops in a non nano gang now.
Hmm, I couldn't really disagree more. I can see why you'd say that if you're willing to say that battleships don't have a place in combat though. Quote:
P.S.: Considering that this change is part of the reason i came back i find it ironic that its the reason your leaving. I left over half a year ago because i was sick of flying in nanogangs and huge BS blobs(actually i was sick of flying BS at all, never liked em), i hope things will change now.
Well, that's the thing - you always hated battleships so you're not concerned that BS's simply aren't going to be viable after the patch. In either case, I like small ships and gangs too... but doing it at the cost of battleships isn't acceptable. -Liang |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 18:03:00 - [ 56]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 27/10/2008 18:02:58 Originally by: Kadoes Khan
People fly punishers with AC's despite having a bonus to laser cap use, Are they using the wrong ship? People use small weapons on arbitrators are all the time are they flying the wrong ship? No.
Neither ship have effective weapon bonuses. :) Quote:
Let's look at the dominix, you could fit the thing WITHOUT guns and still have it be extremely effective. So if you fit neuts on your Domi instead of BS sized weapons according to your theory that would be the wrong ship? Despite the Neut domi being arguably the best 1v1(aka solo) battleship around? Clearly I've misunderstood your argument somewhere and you should clarify more.
In fact, that's the only way I'd consider fitting a domi after the patch. Maybe 250 rails and a neut or two. Also, 1v1 is not "solo". Solo means that you have to be able to deal with anything that you find - or finds you. Quote:
The fact you think the formula stops applying when you get into your big ship is clear. Watch nearly every pvp video out there and unless the BS is nano they just click approach and sit beside each other until one of them dies. Even orbiting at 20m/s has benefits, especially so in a ship like a mega where you have a huge tracking bonus. You could drop down simply to Ions(6%) or Electrons(15%) both provide superior tracking at the expense of damage, which technically results in an increase in damage anyways if you were having trouble hitting.
That's half the problem - even dropping down to electrons yields you a 0% chance of dealing effective damage to something smaller than a BS in web range - and drastically hurts your ability to deal damage outside of web range. Quote:
Ahh each player of a team? So why not just get your buddy in the cruiser, HAC, ceptor or whatever to kill him if your in a fleet? Your role in a BS isn't fly(ceptor/AF) swatting or even clubbing baby seals(hac/recon etc) your "role" is to get down in the mud and duke it out with other BS sized ships, or at least that's what it would appear to be post patch.
So really what you're saying is that you shouldn't have a battleship in gang unless you expect to face ... battleships. And then smaller ships should be able to deal full damage to battleships as well - and some of those smaller ships output battleship class damage. So the answer that you're really proposing is to STOP FLYING BLASTER BATTLESHIPS ENTIRELY. They have no place at all in the order of battle. Look at it this way: Situations: - Solo: Don't fly battleships. - Small gang: You expect to engage anything from frigs to battleships. In most cases, bringing a blaster battleship is not helpful because you won't be able to deal damage to the target even if you get them in range. Bringing a pulse laser ship (for example) means that you can get range and deal damage. - Med gang: Blaster ships in general are starting to have trouble getting into range before targets are popped. Blaster battleships are largely useless due to the inability to get into range at all. - Large gang: All Blaster ships are utterly useless, and unable to get into range of targets. Blaster battleships, while having plenty of targets, are also unable to get into range of more than 1 or 2 targets throughout the fight. So where do we use blaster battleships? WE DON'T-Liang |
Jach Wong |
Posted - 2008.10.27 18:32:00 - [ 57]
I happen to agree with Liang. The whole point of a BS is BS grade weapons, otherwise we'd just field a BC at a fraction the cost.
The day that a BS can no longer effectively engage cruisers and battlecruisers using BS grade weapons is the day that BS is obsolete. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten. |
Posted - 2008.10.27 19:35:00 - [ 58]
Sad to hear you're leaving Liang. Warhammer, and things like it, just aren't my thing so I've not got another MMO to turn to as of yet. Still can't believe that a nano nerf has turned into this fiasco tbh, but hey ho. I don't feel there is any point in talking about it it on the forums anymore, as the devs minds are made up. There is absolutely no point in discussing it. Damn shame really. |
NaBeRa
DRUCKWELLE Evolution
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2008.10.27 20:07:00 - [ 59]
actually, i dont see much problem here.
some ships are there to counter other ships. i do not complain that i cant break the tank of a fat domi with my stupid ceptor, and the same should apply to a BS.
If you want to gank a small ship, dont sit in a fat slow big bastard ship. if you want to gank a big bad mofu Battleship, dont bring a single ceptor.
the Megatron still has its role. it just relay on friends, like almost every other ship in the whole game. A Blaster-Megatron still can do a fackload of damage. It can still tank very well. it still can BBQ big fat ships. |
Liang Nuren |
Posted - 2008.10.27 20:23:00 - [ 60]
Originally by: NaBeRa
the Megatron still has its role. it just relay on friends, like almost every other ship in the whole game. A Blaster-Megatron still can do a fackload of damage. It can still tank very well. it still can BBQ big fat ships.
No, it doesn't have a role. I'll go over it one more time just for you: - Solo: You're likely to face ships from any class. Blaster ships are unable to deal effective damage to ships smaller than a battleship. Don't solo in a blaster ship - Small Gang: You're likely to face ships from any class. Blaster ships are unable to fulfill the role of "DPS" to ships smaller than battleship, which means in most fights you simply are taking up space in the gang. You should have brought a smaller ship. - Med Gang: You're likely to face ships from any class, but unless you're just out ganking, there' likely be a BS or two to shoot (eventually). In the fights where there aren't BS's to shoot, you're just taking up space. In the fights where there are BS's to fight, you'll find that you run out of capacitor and take ages to bring your DPS to bear. - Large gang: You're very likely to face gangs with battleships (otherwise you generally wouldn't have such a large gang), but the opposing battleships pop before you can think of getting into range. - RR gang: You're unable to deal effective damage at range, and are required to stay within RR range. So what do we see... there is no role left for blaster battleships. -Liang |
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