| Author |
Topic |
Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:39:00 - [ 1]
Like it says on the can. ECM, is it THE new weapon in small - mid sized gangs?
On the overall of fights i get in i notice alot of Falcons/Rooks/Kitsunes/Blackbirds are flying with even the smallest gangs.
Now im personaly a ECM ***** myself, having a extra falcon in the gang im with is a great addition, but lacks overall.. "use" in my opinion.
I know of the saying "if they cant lock you, they cant shoot you either" which is great to make hostile DPS/Recons cry.
Recently we tried to make a switch in our gangs from Falcons to Curse, Arazu, Rapier etc etc and found their capabilitys are very usefull, but depended on capability of locking. My usual Arazu fitting with 2x remote damp with Target Range Damp scripts drops a falcon back to 100k locking range, which usualy leaves them with effective range to continue jamming.
Now, im not whining about ECM being "too good" as i like them when their on my side, but merely a annoyance in their capabilitys.
Falcons have hard times jamming other falcons (or recons as a whole) which buys some time, but usualy not enough.
Recently we held a test on TQ wile we were waiting on a gang to assemble. One of our Falcon pilots had my arazu jammed for 21 minutes in a row, with a single multispectral.
Which according to the "chance based" rule on ECM shouldnt be capable of happening. (if my knowledge is right anyway, 19,3% chance is what we calculated in that test)
As i see a increase in ECM ships in the gangs we usualy fight, and thus a increase in ECM ships with our gangs. I'm wondering if more people react like this.
On overall we find that taking down ECM ships can be quite hard, seeing most Falcons can permajam from the first cycle, which makes the fight fairly one sided.
Our past tactics have been Inty's and other nano's to catch up with the falcon's range and beat them up in a quick way, which soon became repetative with our inty's being jammed as first, forever.
I was wondering how other Corps/Allainces/FC's fought the ECM "problem" as i seriously find it annoying when half the gang cant do **** :P
(And Twinky, im not gonna **** their face, my wife would get jealous)
ECM doesnt need to be nerfed or changed, It works fine the way it is. People complain when used against them, and cheer when used for them.
Just looking for a effective way to take them off grid, ASAP.
|
Dratic
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns |
Posted - 2008.10.24 14:23:00 - [ 2]
Nice post, it does seem ecm is more and more a part of gang war fare. In most cases its a force multiplier.
You can be a couple ships short and have some good fights.
In some respects you need the ecm to counter stuff like remote repping battleship gangs. Otherwise doesnt matter what you bring can just be painful hitting for not alot.
Your point on spamming intys at falcons is a perfectly good way of approaching them. Depending on the pilot it can make a falcon warp off, taking him and whatever dps he has out of the fight. If he jams the inty thats one less jammer on your gang.
Quite a few player nowadays are falcon/rook capable so that does make it a difficult situation when u're against 3 or more falcon/rooks. With that you can expect up to 9 of them will be permajammed.
One thing that has worked well is ships like the arazu and lachesis as the distance jamming just doesnt work anymore or is limited severely (having to reposition) hence wasting more time in the fight.
|
Threv Echandari
Caldari
Moira.
Rote Kapelle |
Posted - 2008.10.24 14:40:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: Threv Echandari on 24/10/2008 14:42:33I am big ECM fan, I always have been, I have always thought as ECM as the great qualizer when your short on SP and DPS and facing larger more well equipped opponents. ECM is being caught on as FOTM is because of a few reasons IMHO. 1. It is the least skill intensive Weapon system that completelty negates the effectiveness of "Nano" gangs. A new pilot in a Griffin with ECM related skills trained to 3 or 4 can nullify a vaga or rapier. More and more pilots are resigning themselves to chasing them off and denying them kills. 2. ECM is more and more prevalent in Faction Warfare because of Point number 1 ^^ Low SP Pilots can be more useful flying ECM than say a Merlin or Incursus. Also the more pilots fly in gangs with Falcons and Blackbirds the more they want them on a small gang. (Whomever said small gang warfare is dead should step out of 0.0 more often, I almost feel bad for them  ) Why has ECM not been so popular before?Besides it being nerfed a while ago (yes it used to be ore powerful) I think that large fleet warfare has marginalized ECM just because of the numbers of ships involved. Everyone wants to be in an inty, HAC, or Sniping Battleship because the 1 guy in the Scorpion in going to be insta-popped which limits his effectivness. So consequently very few people fly them because of the huge Bullseye. Even the mighty Falcon with its jamming range can only be so effective in large fleet battle because: A. There just aren't enough of them counter the number of Sniper BS that can take them out at 200KM (In my last alliance if you could not hit out to 185-200km you were told to "Go fly a HAC noob"). I have yet to see an ECM Wing of Falcons, but then I have not flown with every alliance, YMMV. B. ECM becomes less effective as there is no good way to effectivly manage jammer pilots to prevent double jamming. The FC's overview does not show which of the enemy fleet is being jammed by his own fleet. It is completely opposite of guns/ missiles where you want to saturate the target. So ECM Pilots have to callout who they jammed and even on voice it can get chaotic. (Hey CCP-There really needs to be an FC's overview to help with command and control-- or perhaps some kind of AEGIS Ship or Module that helps manage EWAR) OK now that I went off on a tangent I'll try to get back on track.....reliably countering the ECM threat generally requires ECCM which will Hurt your Tanking/Tackling. or your own Falcon or Arazu. with Inty Support.If you wanted to Risk a BS in your "Small gang" a well skilled Rohk with T2 Rails will hit anything on the Grid and ECCM will keep the Falcon at bay. Stealth Bombers with RSD' and Sensor Booster 2's can keep ECM range hampered and throw Cruise missiles which will ruin their day. TeamworkThis is the approach to take if you want to ignore the falcon and get on with the business of popping ships. If you have a gang that is heavy on New Pilots, instead of throwing them in a Punisher or Rifters letting them get slaughtered trying to tackle, throw them in Griffins with a Remote ECCM, and 3 racials This way your DPS ships and Tacklers won't have to sacrifice speed or Tank. As long as they have their little electronic Guardian angel over their shoulder they should be OK. Remember that the Griffin can pack a Warrior Drone. if you have several of these guys they can assign their Drone to assist a Tackler or each other. |
Kadoes Khan |
Posted - 2008.10.24 18:36:00 - [ 4]
ECM is your gang's best friend and worst enemy.
On one hand it'll gave you a major advantage over your opponent and unless the ECM pilot royally ****s away you'll coast along to a relatively easy victory. On the other hand as soon as someone sees an ECM pilot in your gang or a known ECM pilot in local that's with your militia, chances are they won't engage you unless they can counter your ECM which means you get to sit around with your fingers up your but until someone gets suicidal or your ECM leaves.
How to counter? Jam them back, damp them, kill them or distract them with emo tears. |
Dasalt Istgut |
Posted - 2008.10.25 05:20:00 - [ 5]
 Originally by: Deira Lenia
Like it says on the can. ECM, is it THE new weapon in small - mid sized gangs?
On the overall of fights i get in i notice alot of Falcons/Rooks/Kitsunes/Blackbirds are flying with even the smallest gangs.
Now im personaly a ECM ***** myself, having a extra falcon in the gang im with is a great addition, but lacks overall.. "use" in my opinion.
I know of the saying "if they cant lock you, they cant shoot you either" which is great to make hostile DPS/Recons cry.
Recently we tried to make a switch in our gangs from Falcons to Curse, Arazu, Rapier etc etc and found their capabilitys are very usefull, but depended on capability of locking. My usual Arazu fitting with 2x remote damp with Target Range Damp scripts drops a falcon back to 100k locking range, which usualy leaves them with effective range to continue jamming.
Now, im not whining about ECM being "too good" as i like them when their on my side, but merely a annoyance in their capabilitys.
Falcons have hard times jamming other falcons (or recons as a whole) which buys some time, but usualy not enough.
Recently we held a test on TQ wile we were waiting on a gang to assemble. One of our Falcon pilots had my arazu jammed for 21 minutes in a row, with a single multispectral.
Which according to the "chance based" rule on ECM shouldnt be capable of happening. (if my knowledge is right anyway, 19,3% chance is what we calculated in that test)
As i see a increase in ECM ships in the gangs we usualy fight, and thus a increase in ECM ships with our gangs. I'm wondering if more people react like this.
On overall we find that taking down ECM ships can be quite hard, seeing most Falcons can permajam from the first cycle, which makes the fight fairly one sided.
Our past tactics have been Inty's and other nano's to catch up with the falcon's range and beat them up in a quick way, which soon became repetative with our inty's being jammed as first, forever.
I was wondering how other Corps/Allainces/FC's fought the ECM "problem" as i seriously find it annoying when half the gang cant do **** :P
(And Twinky, im not gonna **** their face, my wife would get jealous)
ECM doesnt need to be nerfed or changed, It works fine the way it is. People complain when used against them, and cheer when used for them.
Just looking for a effective way to take them off grid, ASAP.
At first I thought you were serious until you said "2x damp Arazu" and 21 minuts on a single multispec. Trolling fail. |
Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2008.10.25 10:47:00 - [ 6]
2x point 2x damp on my roaming arazu yes. Its a arazu, not a lachesis.
Lacking a dictor most of the times made us adapt. Afaik they call it Evolution, you should try it sometimes.
Having long running permajams with other racials or multispecs is not uncommon, i can do the same in my blackbird, even without the extra bonuses the falcon has.
Must say thats a interesting idea there, normaly we'd tell people to get a MWD + point + web on a frig and play as tackler. Didnt think of the Kitsunes capability like that as the ranks of the skills needed for ECM are higher then point/web/mwd etc.
We've tried the Rokh idea with a Tachyon apoc, it got jammed first cycle >.> the ECCM dont add much safety. |
Jalif
Minmatar
Snuff Box |
Posted - 2008.10.25 11:18:00 - [ 7]
-Ever toughed about Projected ECM? Its stronger, but you have to make sure you don't get jammed at first shot. So basicly its only good when you are defending.
-If you are in 0.0 - maybe bombs/smartbomb will do the trick.
-How about the gallente ishkur. Try to warp him in close (with a help of a covertops) & lock & launch drones before he jams you. He will be forced to warp out, but he, its better then notting.
-A group of interceptors (like 8 of them). A falcon won't be able to lock them down. But this is also very mwhaa... just 8 people to get 1 other... And personally I really don't like blobbing.
-Other idea that comes to mind is getting a reconship like the rapier/pilgrim. Get close and personal. Make sure you have a ECCM fitted. The rest follows. This could be a good setup since the recons have a high sensor strength.
Just some ideas that I had... maybe you should try them out. |
Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2008.10.25 11:58:00 - [ 8]
Never tried the projected ECM, being jammed already n all.
Inty with smartbombs.. i like that idea better then sacreficing half the gang to swap for intys. Nice idea, must try after DT.
Seeing our gangs aint big im not sure if we could spare a cloaker to grab their ECM, but like you said with extra support warping in on them at a later point, could make it a very effective tactic, Must try after DT.
Thanks for all the replies, thought i'd get trolled to hell when i posted this.
|
Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2008.10.25 12:47:00 - [ 9]
I found the best counters for falcons are fast ships which get close to the falcons fast plus weapon systems that dont require locks.
Such are nano curses and even sentinels, both have a better sensor strength then a battleship, both can suck a falcons cap dry to a point where it can hardly jamm anymore and both can damage the falcon with drones while jammed and most of all both have the medslots for an eccm.
Vagas are not so good as theyre easily jammed, like all minm ships.
Ishtars work good, too - inties are easily jammed by an falcon.
Most ships can drive falcons away, but require a specific fit making them less to no good in fighting other ships - which is why i like the curse and sentinel that much.q |
Sanka Cofie
Amarr
The Yaar Offices of Pointe Webb and Podemall
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 14:20:00 - [ 10]
If only there were a module, or even a combination of modules, which one could fit to make their ships more resistance to Electronic Counter Measures.
You might even call them Electronic Counter Counter Measures (ECCM).
Or even, a way to project these ECCM effects on to someone else.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 23:27:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Deira Lenia
Recently we held a test on TQ wile we were waiting on a gang to assemble. One of our Falcon pilots had my arazu jammed for 21 minutes in a row, with a single multispectral.
Which according to the "chance based" rule on ECM shouldnt be capable of happening. (if my knowledge is right anyway, 19,3% chance is what we calculated in that test)
Ok, I'm calling troll on this one. To jam for 21 minutes (63 jam cycles), the odds are 1 in 8.97e27. That is one in 8,970,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000For comparison, the odds of winning the current $52 million (USD) powerball lottery jackpot are a mere 1 in 146,107,962.00. Do you see a problem with this? |
Davina Braben |
Posted - 2008.10.25 23:57:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: Davina Braben on 26/10/2008 00:03:54 Quote:
Recently we held a test on TQ wile we were waiting on a gang to assemble. One of our Falcon pilots had my arazu jammed for 21 minutes in a row, with a single multispectral.
Which according to the "chance based" rule on ECM shouldnt be capable of happening. (if my knowledge is right anyway, 19,3% chance is what we calculated in that test)
This shouldn't (and doesn't in my experience) happen. Recons are actually pretty hard to jam as you said to begin with. The Arazu for example has a whopping 26 sensor strength. Multispec jammer strength is 8-ish before rigs, implants etc. You actually need to devote a fair chunk of your rack to permajamming a recon. If you're using multispecs they're weaker anyway. If you're using racials you're unlikely to have more than a couple of the right type. So you can reduce the usefulness of enemy ECM just by being harder to jam overall as a gang. Same thing as ECCM. At this point fast ships / range-ey / drone-ey ships not jammed are free to chase off / destroy their ECM ships. |
Adrian Steel
Caldari
Kabukimono Exploration Syndicate
Greater Realms |
Posted - 2008.10.26 19:02:00 - [ 13]
A stealth bomber with good missile skills and an ECCM fitted is very well suited to remove ECM ships off your grid, often in a timely fashion. |
Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise. |
Posted - 2008.10.26 21:56:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: Ralara on 26/10/2008 21:58:09I'm going to call bull on the 21 minutes thing. I have no agenda to push with Falcons. Like many people I love them in gang and hate them when we're facing them :) For instance today a mate and I were camping a low sec entry point. I had my alt in a buffer-tanked Badger sitting on a gate just out of jump range, waiting for a target to come and kill it, at which point we'd warp in from a SS in the empire gate and engage. Underhanded but there we go. My sig's there for a reason :p So, a Broadsword aggresses and starts attacking the badger. As soon as I saw it on overview on my alt, we warped to the gate and jumped through. The Broadsword is now 5km from the gate. My mega and the tempest begin to engage it when a Rapier, Dommi and Abaddon warp in and start engaging us. I call for the Dommi to go down and I start unleashing my blasters on it. It's in about half armour and my mate in his pest is now chewing through the broadsword (all of them were under sentry fire as well). The Dommi is neuting me but I have enough cap boosters and it looks like we can win this if we just keep tar... oh look, a falcon. Jammed and jammed. Deaggress, run to the gate. Being quad-webbed at this point and 4km from the gate I'm a little concerned for my mega's health. The Dommi makes a run for me and tries to bump me out of the way; it actually bumps me sideways so I end up no further from the gate than I was before but it's picked up my momentum a bit. Overloaded MWD later and we're both on the empire side, rather annoyed at the Falcon for ruining that fight. But I guess from their point of view, that falcon saved them. The pest had an ECCM on it but it didn't have any effect whatsoever against the Falcon which jammed it for three cycles in a row. Of course, my mate had forgotten to turn it on  , which probably had something to do with it. I really do think that many people who fit ECCM don't realise you have to turn it on. It's an active module. Oh, and the badger survived too ;-) |
Galan Amarias
Amarr
Kantian Principle
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 00:28:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Deira Lenia
Recently we held a test on TQ wile we were waiting on a gang to assemble. One of our Falcon pilots had my arazu jammed for 21 minutes in a row, with a single multispectral.
Which according to the "chance based" rule on ECM shouldnt be capable of happening. (if my knowledge is right anyway, 19,3% chance is what we calculated in that test)
Ok, I'm calling troll on this one. To jam for 21 minutes (63 jam cycles), the odds are 1 in 8.97e27. That is one in 8,970,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
For comparison, the odds of winning the current $52 million (USD) powerball lottery jackpot are a mere 1 in 146,107,962.00. Do you see a problem with this?
He may not understand that "permajam" can be different things to different people. I lost an Apoc to a faction gang with a blackbird. He didnt have me permajamed but he was hitting often enough that I couldn't lock him. I'd start locking, get close and then he'd hit again. Mind you I made several other pilot errors that night but if I'd had a sensor booster that would have been a very different fight. Which brings me to the sensor booster. Get a DPS ship close to the jammer and sooner or later he'll miss a cycle. If you are boosted that's usually all you need, falcons tank like wet toilet paper. -Galan |
Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise. |
Posted - 2008.10.27 07:08:00 - [ 16]
Edited by: Ralara on 27/10/2008 07:09:39 Originally by: Galan Amarias
He may not understand that "permajam" can be different things to different people.
Well it shouldn't; "Permajam" means "permanently jammed". As in "non-stop". Quote:
Which brings me to the sensor booster. Get a DPS ship close to the jammer and sooner or later he'll miss a cycle. If you are boosted that's usually all you need, falcons tank like wet toilet paper.
You don't even need that; get some drones to "assist" an interceptor. Once the ceptor's in range, change it to "protect" and when the Falcon tries to jam the ceptor, the drones will attack the Falcon. Falcons (and rapiers, arazus and Pilgrims) don't tend to last too long when there's drones on them. At the least it'll push the Falcon away. |
TZeer
BURN EDEN |
Posted - 2008.10.27 07:57:00 - [ 17]
Quote:
My usual Arazu fitting with 2x remote damp with Target Range Damp scripts drops a falcon back to 100k locking range, which usualy leaves them with effective range to continue jamming.
Actually, if the falcon is using 1 sensorbooster with range script, your 2 damps will put him down to about 60km range. If you fit rigs on that arazu to boost the damps you can knock him down to 45km.... Now, if the falcon use 2 sensorboosters (unlikely since he already can get 240km with one) his range goes down to 90km roughly. So if the falcon is within reasonable damp range you should have no problem taking him down to 45km, wich is out of game, or forced to come closer. |
Burn Mac
Minmatar
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 08:53:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Threv Echandari
B. ECM becomes less effective as there is no good way to effectivly manage jammer pilots to prevent double jamming. The FC's overview does not show which of the enemy fleet is being jammed by his own fleet. It is completely opposite of guns/ missiles where you want to saturate the target. So ECM Pilots have to callout who they jammed and even on voice it can get chaotic. (Hey CCP-There really needs to be an FC's overview to help with command and control-- or perhaps some kind of AEGIS Ship or Module that helps manage EWAR)
When around 8 or less pure ECM pilots i whould guess giving each pilot a race to focus on gives it some managability and how many ships can you optimally cancel from combat then given 8 Falcons each with full rack of racial jammers? 40 BS:es, can you say zomg? |
Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2008.10.27 10:38:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Deira Lenia
Recently we held a test on TQ wile we were waiting on a gang to assemble. One of our Falcon pilots had my arazu jammed for 21 minutes in a row, with a single multispectral.
Which according to the "chance based" rule on ECM shouldnt be capable of happening. (if my knowledge is right anyway, 19,3% chance is what we calculated in that test)
Ok, I'm calling troll on this one. To jam for 21 minutes (63 jam cycles), the odds are 1 in 8.97e27. That is one in 8,970,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
For comparison, the odds of winning the current $52 million (USD) powerball lottery jackpot are a mere 1 in 146,107,962.00. Do you see a problem with this?
I do, it tells me that staticstics as usual in eve mean f'k-all. Just because your at work and have a calculator handy, your not supposed to be a troll. Grab the usual falcon fit with the signal amps/rigs. And have fun by jamming a random recon you see fly by. He'll be in pain. Fact stays, ECM "chance" is pure gamble and not a calculation of factors like additon of ECCM. It doesnt really matter what jammer you throw at what races ship you usualy have a equal chance to jam the target and get it jammed the first try. Which, tbh, is the most annoying part of the whole deal. Because if you want to run the calculation. Most ECM pilots have a 33% chance on a target with the specific racial jammer. Thats 1 in 3 chance (leaving off the billions of decimals). and still get a odd 5-6 cycles or more off. or just fail first try and never get a jam on. All nice odds combined, for the looks of it ECM "works" but not to the actual calculation it should follow. Also, are you ****ed you forgot to buy a ticket for that lottery? |
Arbiter Reformed
Minmatar
Garnet Resources
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 13:14:00 - [ 20]
as for big fights use scorps and lots of them. if there all remote repping there hard to kill aswell. ecm is king in all fights all the time no matter what, which i must say i find boring. but i guess you can just blob them as numbers are an easy way to overcome the ecm thing. eccm can work reasonably well on bs's but only if you have more than two fitted (most bs's get over 100 sensor streangth). but that also nerfs your setup to some extent (works well on tempests tho), i think the rule is if you expect ecm fit lots of eccm and bring some ecm ships with you yourself. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 15:46:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Deira Lenia
Grab the usual falcon fit with the signal amps/rigs. And have fun by jamming a random recon you see fly by. He'll be in pain.
Been there, done that. I do fly the ship, you know, and while it can be quite effective against another recon, it sure as hell does NOT permajam for 21 minutes with a single multispectral. Quote:
Fact stays, ECM "chance" is pure gamble and not a calculation of factors like additon of ECCM. It doesnt really matter what jammer you throw at what races ship you usualy have a equal chance to jam the target and get it jammed the first try.
No, it doesn't. Please learn how ECM works and come back and edit away this embarassing post. Quote:
Which, tbh, is the most annoying part of the whole deal. Because if you want to run the calculation. Most ECM pilots have a 33% chance on a target with the specific racial jammer. Thats 1 in 3 chance (leaving off the billions of decimals). and still get a odd 5-6 cycles or more off. or just fail first try and never get a jam on.
Oh FFS, are you too stupid to know the difference between jamming once and jamming 63 times in a row? Do you even know how consecutive probability works? And no, it doesn't work like that. You get 5-6 cycles off by using multiple jammers. And you do NOT either succeed on the first or fail on all, successful jams regularly happen on every attempt from the first to the 6th (only 6 jammers total). Quote:
Also, are you ****ed you forgot to buy a ticket for that lottery?
No, because lotteries are a tax on the stupid, and I am not a ****ing idiot. |
Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2008.10.27 21:59:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Deira Lenia
Grab the usual falcon fit with the signal amps/rigs. And have fun by jamming a random recon you see fly by. He'll be in pain.
Been there, done that. I do fly the ship, you know, and while it can be quite effective against another recon, it sure as hell does NOT permajam for 21 minutes with a single multispectral.
Quote:
Fact stays, ECM "chance" is pure gamble and not a calculation of factors like additon of ECCM. It doesnt really matter what jammer you throw at what races ship you usualy have a equal chance to jam the target and get it jammed the first try.
No, it doesn't. Please learn how ECM works and come back and edit away this embarassing post.
Quote:
Which, tbh, is the most annoying part of the whole deal. Because if you want to run the calculation. Most ECM pilots have a 33% chance on a target with the specific racial jammer. Thats 1 in 3 chance (leaving off the billions of decimals). and still get a odd 5-6 cycles or more off. or just fail first try and never get a jam on.
Oh FFS, are you too stupid to know the difference between jamming once and jamming 63 times in a row? Do you even know how consecutive probability works?
And no, it doesn't work like that. You get 5-6 cycles off by using multiple jammers. And you do NOT either succeed on the first or fail on all, successful jams regularly happen on every attempt from the first to the 6th (only 6 jammers total).
Quote:
Also, are you ****ed you forgot to buy a ticket for that lottery?
No, because lotteries are a tax on the stupid, and I am not a ****ing idiot.
1 single multispec, 21minutes in a row. Try it. dont troll. Try a Minmatar Jammer on a Caldari ship, Try it, Dont troll. I know the difference between One and Sixty-three. And he used ONE jammer not MULTIPLE. One single multispec, you might not be stupid but you cant read. Dont troll. You shoulda taken the lottery ticket, the jackpot couldhave paid you a few years of school to learn reading, or comprehension. Dont Troll. Im not even sure why im replying to you. The character age, the corp, your overopinionated signature. Gb2/WoW. Small question, for apparently a ECM ***** like yourself, why do you care about blasterboats.... |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.27 23:04:00 - [ 23]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 27/10/2008 23:05:26 Originally by: Deira Lenia
1 single multispec, 21minutes in a row. Try it. dont troll.
Tried it, MANY times. Like I said, if you could learn to read, I fly the ****ing ship. In fact, I've even jammed Arazus with multispectrals, the exact situation you're talking about. While failing with all jammers is very rare, any single multispectral does not succeed over 50%. In fact, it almost always takes at least a second multispectral to get the jam. Either you are trolling, or your friend is lying about using just a single multispectral. Quote:
And he used ONE jammer not MULTIPLE. One single multispec, you might not be stupid but you cant read. Dont troll.
And either you are lying about the whole event, or your friend is lying about using only a single multispectral. What you are talking about does not happen. Quote:
Im not even sure why im replying to you. The character age, the corp, your overopinionated signature.
Ah, the last resort of a troll, when you can't argue the facts, start attacking the person. Feel free to stop replying at any time, I'll accept your concession that you're just trolling and making up exaggerated stories to try to get the Falcon nerfed. Quote:
Small question, for apparently a ECM ***** like yourself, why do you care about blasterboats....
Because I fly more than just ECM ships? Shocking, isn't it... |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.10.28 00:22:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: Deira Lenia
Like it says on the can. ECM, is it THE new weapon in small - mid sized gangs?
Yes. Always has been. Only time it wasn't was when CCP decided to nerf the fvck out of ECM so that even ECM ships couldn't use it effectively. Once ECM ships got increased strength bonuses they suddenly they became useful again. Originally by: Deira Lenia
ECM doesnt need to be nerfed or changed, It works fine the way it is. People complain when used against them, and cheer when used for them.
Just looking for a effective way to take them off grid, ASAP.
Inties, nanos, your own ECM, Rohks, Eagles, Apocs, Droneships with Sentry Drones. 'Course it would be nice if ECCM worked a bit better. It's a narrowly focused module whose sole purpose is to offset an EW attack (unlike say Tracking Comps, Sensors Boosters, Cap Boosters, etc. which have other benefits). One would think it'd be a bit more foolproof. Or at least CCP should give it additional benefit. |
ceaser3
Caldari
Debitum Naturae |
Posted - 2008.10.28 15:48:00 - [ 25]
Just bring in a skill that increases sensor strength per lvl. That should help for some pilots. |
Tykkis |
Posted - 2008.10.28 18:22:00 - [ 26]
Falcon+ECM effectively counters the counters. How can you counter a ship that is built to counter?  |
Aalana
Origin.
Black Legion. |
Posted - 2008.10.28 21:11:00 - [ 27]
Speaking from extensive PVP experience with my falcon alt...
1-2 Falcon(s) are very useful in fights with fewer than 30 hostiles. A bunch of sniper BS (Amarr ones in particular) make being in an uncloaked falcon is a terrible idea.
The best counter(s) to falcons/ECM?
- x2 vagas burning for you. (be aligned or die)
- if you're unlucky enough to be in close... a single curse (with its 29 sensor strength) it will neut you out so you can't mwd and you can't jam.
- x4+ sniper boats (be aligned or die)
- some **** in a covops probing you. (be aligned or die)
the most effective way to use a falcon is to be clever about your range and to be prepared. If you have a collection of 180km bm's around the relavent gate/station/POS and there are no/few snipers then you're pretty much invincible.... bwahahaha.
At the end of the day a falcon will never kill anything, they just make it significantly easier for others to do so and not get splattered.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2008.11.03 12:40:00 - [ 28]
Keres. Damp bonuses + 5 mids = one 15 mill frig can nullify 2 ranged ships.
ECCM _________ (insert name of most useless looking, unlikely to get primaried ship) - The only useful thing i've ever done with a hawk is fill the mids with remote ECCM and the highs with precision lights. |
Sexorella hotz
SexyCor
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Posted - 2008.11.05 02:26:00 - [ 29]
Just my two cents on the damp suggestions, look at the optimal on damps and tell me how something with an optimal of not more than 40 is going to do jack to a falcon over 100 away, especially considering it is not that hard for falcons to target 200+. If he's already close enough to you that you can damp it you should just be killing it. One of my biggest problems with ECM is the range, and if damps had hte same range they'd be equally viable in PVP. I'd rather bring the falcon closer with nerf than the arazu farther with boost imo, stupid invincible ships(if flown half decently). |
Demtalin le'Mercennaire
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2008.11.05 03:51:00 - [ 30]
My suggestion is FOF missiles and Drones.
Doesn't really help your average fleet to much though. It would also lower DPS on primary targets because you wouldn't beable to focus fire. |
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