| Author |
Topic |
Strill |
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:25:00 - [ 121]
 Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Blaster ships had one role: get in close and do extreme amounts of damage to anything foolish enough to allow itself to get into range. Now they can't do that. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know WTF they're talking about because a) they've never flown blaster ships, b) they've never PVPed or c) they're just a troll and could give a **** because they fly Caldari.
Neither you nor Misanth have a clue as to what will or will not work for blaster pilots.
No, I don't fly blaster ships. The gallente ships I fly fit rails. Never claimed I fly blaster ships either, it just seems unreasonable to me this whole discussion. First off, all fights I see in low-sec is at gates or stations. In 0.0 it's recently either been blobs or nano. I can't think of any difference for blasters in eithers.
I guess there might be people that are trying to kite at gates and/or stations in low-sec and blasters might suffer a bit there, but it's pretty obvious that trailing off from a gate will put you at risk since you can't deagress if the other guy(s) get backup.
Would love some more constructive feedback than "it won't work", just looking at the situation on paper I can't really think of why blasters would be (much) worse off than today. Torps will struggle more to hit. Blasterships got free mids for, for example, web, unlike the Raven that tanks with mids.
Pure sense tells a non-blaster pilot this is pure whineage for no real reason, but I'd love to hear some constructive feedback of why I'm wrong. I'm just guessing the unhappy people are low-sec battleship pilots that want their bs up close fast with the strong webs? That's one shiptype with one kind of fitting in one kind of situation. And for the rest?
Or is it just easier to whine and insult people than posting constructive feedback? 
Well there's a nice huge 30 page thread full of number crunching down in the game development forum if you'd like to see more info. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:28:00 - [ 122]
Wow, something that has always been great may become slightly less effective and omg look at the ****storm. Try autocannons before whining tbh. |
Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:29:00 - [ 123]
This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team |
Haalanii |
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:35:00 - [ 124]
Autos/blasters are the true "short range" weapons for BS. Torps and pulses are more of a mid-range weapon system. In exchange autos use no cap and blasters have higher damage.
Higher damage, of course, doesn't mean on a slot-per-slot basis (because torps beat blasters) or in real-life application (as close ranges can actually cause you to miss in some cases - even against huge targets like battleships - while a torp would not.
Now with difficulties reaching that 5-10km sweetspot (due to mass, mwd changes, web changes, scram changes) the advantage of blasters is harder to capitalize upon and the primary disadvantage (range) is exacerbated.
In addition -- assuming you make it to optimal -- there are even more disadvantages for a blaster-user. First, if the other guy has a scram and you have a disruptor you might end up losing ground and falling into falloff again. Second, web effectiveness is being reduced. That means a ship right in your face might be moving 40 m/s instead of 10 m/s (60% v. 90% reduction). While it migth seem trivial at longer ranges, up close this is really noticeable. That's just assuming a speed of 100 m/s. A cruiser with a speed of 300 m/s will now maintain 180 m/s. Add in an afterburner and good luck hitting the bastard.
On TQ pulses and torps are already preferable in most situations. In particular, people started realizing just how nasty pulses can be v. nanos
I think this is the next step in the balancing down of what was an over-powered collection of ships in the Gallente aresenal. However, like the nano nerf, most of the nerfs to gallente ships went way too far. I suppose that's getting off topic though.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet |
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:39:00 - [ 125]
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:43:00 - [ 126]
Originally by: Misanth
--garbage--
See, this is what I just don't get. It's people like yourself who think they're just soooooo much smarter than everyone else. Just assume for a second that all the blaster pilots in Eve have already thought of all the garbage knee-jerk "solutions" to all of our issues already and discard that so that we can get on to actually solving the problems. Go to the Game Development forum section and read the COMPLETE 30+ page thread on the discussion of blasters, blaster ships, blaster tracking and how it is unacceptable. You fail as a human being because even though you don't even fly blaster ships, or have 3+ years of experience with them, you think you can suggest to people like myself and others what we need to do to fix the situation. There is something in the legal profession called 'due diligence'. That means that you did everything you possibly could within your personal capability to succeed at a task. You have shown zero due diligence with respect to researching the subject a little bit before you opened your mouth. STFU and stop posting. You don't know WTF you're talking about. Pure sense tells me that you're posting just to troll, but I'd love to hear some constructive feedback as to why I'm wrong. Or is it just easier being a troll and not knowing WTF you're talking about? |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:45:00 - [ 127]
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eliminator2
Gallente
Vindicated Blast.
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 09:50:00 - [ 128]
Edited by: eliminator2 on 24/10/2008 09:52:09
lol yea i was just reading it and up to now i understand CCP dont even look in here
Zulupark I used to be very active blaster ship pilot before the speed stuff. I feel like the blaster ships are going to be better with the expansion. If it's a problem on TQ then we'll change it.
doesnt seem like he is a blaster pilot with that how are they better
this is my advice stop coming up with bull **** CCP and get to the real facts and the truth you lying ****s
EDIT:
Zulupark This was something I was UNOFFICIALLY discussing with the lead game designer in purely speculative manner. Our feels were that you're kinda opening can of worms. We want people to play the game instead of just putting things in a queue and not play. This is is not official and we'll look into this better in near future.
sounds to me we are playing to just change skills thought games are meant to be fun stress leaved seems to me EVE is the most opposite to this
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FOBOS DUNE |
Posted - 2008.10.24 10:00:00 - [ 129]
Caldari has been a totally waste of time for PvP for ages (only good gang ships with EW roles). So the "magic" word for pvp was Blasters. Its fun to see so many gallendes crying coz, they are now Caldaris  My Mega sucks omg! Really? blahblahblahblah.... |
Daan Sai
Polytrope |
Posted - 2008.10.24 10:12:00 - [ 130]
Why would you not listen to someone like Bellum Eternus, who makes a living with blaster BS setups? He may be a pirate, but in this he knows what he is talking about. Grimpak prolly knows a thing or two as well  Getting into that 4-5 km range (for all but the elite large null users who need to get to 10 or so) is *multiply* gimped by the changes. It isn't the *blasters* themselves, it is the crippling of the delivery system. As an even part-time blaster pilot I can see that. I just wish there was some evidence that this issue has even been understood by the CCP devs. (as opposed to content designers) |
eXtas
NibbleTek |
Posted - 2008.10.24 10:18:00 - [ 131]
dont worry about blasters! ac's will be worse anyway :P lazors allways been yber so I trained them myself but they still got problems vs armor omni tanks... well not problems but.. |
Kransthow
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance |
Posted - 2008.10.24 10:32:00 - [ 132]
itt: people who have NEVER PVPED BEFORE |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:06:00 - [ 133]
Dead "ohnoez blasterboats are dead" pilots... This thread was created for your viewing pleasure. Feel free to contribute |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:08:00 - [ 134]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/10/2008 11:09:42 Originally by: eXtas
dont worry about blasters! ac's will be worse anyway :P lazors allways been yber so I trained them myself but they still got problems vs armor omni tanks... well not problems but..
Which is why nobody reasonable uses ACs on BS level when you have the Typhoon which does not suck and just got torp damage buffed by 10% - just got to stick a painter in. Originally by: Sokratesz
Wow, something that has always been great may become slightly less effective and omg look at the ****storm. Try autocannons before whining tbh.
Understatement of the year - we're talking about something which was good becoming totally useless. Solo BS is dead. Outside of that blasters have no role. Blaster BS in gangs make me want to cry. Originally by: FOBOS DUNE
Caldari has been a totally waste of time for PvP for ages (only good gang ships with EW roles).
So the "magic" word for pvp was Blasters.
/facepalm Only if you're a clueless noob. Caldari suck for PVP? |
eXtas
NibbleTek |
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:25:00 - [ 135]
yeah but atm if you fly a phoon in gang with 4-5 megas the targets dies before torps/drones hits the target lol... nerf megas!
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RedSplat |
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:27:00 - [ 136]
Edited by: RedSplat on 24/10/2008 11:26:59 Originally by: eXtas
yeah but atm if you fly a phoon in gang with 4-5 megas the targets dies before torps/drones hits the target lol... nerf megas!
Made your mistake more obvious. No need to thank me, just don't post. |
emf
Amarr
The Federated Suns
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:31:00 - [ 137]
This thread makes me a sad panda... Pretty obvious from the way people are talking about DPS at 30km that they havn't PVPed much. |
eXtas
NibbleTek |
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:32:00 - [ 138]
Originally by: RedSplat
Edited by: RedSplat on 24/10/2008 11:26:59
Originally by: eXtas
yeah but atm if you fly a phoon in gang with 4-5 megas the targets dies before torps/drones hits the target lol... nerf megas!
Made your mistake more obvious. No need to thank me, just don't post.
what? just pointing out megas with neutrons need a nerf :P |
sxndy
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:24:00 - [ 139]
Edited by: sxndy on 24/10/2008 12:26:37
2 years of training gallente pvp skills finally down the drain for me.
Its kind of like being married and your wife telling you that she now preffers the company of women.
You got the "feel good factor" down to a fine art CCP.
Buffs is what people pay for, ask your marketing people.
Infact, your marketing people should be informing the team of outcomes of any nerf decisions, but feel free to go the way of governments and businesses that thought they knew best, its your job and wages you are playing with, not mine ;)
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Liranan
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:41:00 - [ 140]
Edited by: Liranan on 24/10/2008 12:42:48
I have always flown Gallente and love them. Gallente are everything but uber, unlike Amarr their ammo don't last forever, their guns use cap and they have speed issues. I am no roleplayer but I have always flown Gallente because of ideological reasons. This coming patch won't change my love for Gallente, but I am forced to train for Amarr anyway because of their snipe abilities. It's ridiculous that crystals don't deplete and that CCP, after years still haven't realised it's an idiotic concept. That to me, shows that CCP don't really play the game.
I would like to point out to everyone here that the only solo pwn machine in EVE is the Vaga. All other ships are meant to be flown in gang and if you think I am giving up my Astarte for a NH you are mistaken. I will not say how many SP I have in guns as that's none of anyones business. CCP do need to look at weapons and they do need balancing but in different ways than just whining about it. You really want to make a difference? Spam with petitions.
If it does turn out that you guys are right about Gallente being totally nerfed to noobish cradleness then I will apologise and start shouting for a nerf but we will see. EFT is NOT the end all and be all of EVE, stop coming to the forums and crying after you have typed in some numbers and letters in a bugged programme.
Before you all start saying I'm a noob, never pvp'd and have no idea what I'm talking about, I pwn in my Velator. |
ShardowRhino
Caldari
Torque Theory
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:56:00 - [ 141]
Soooo does this mean i can finally bust out some blaster ships without looking like a FOTM-Weenie?? Year and a half training down the tubes???? uhh, learning skillz mushh?? My blaster..hell gunnery skills didn't take that long to get up and if i were to go for 100% maxes i doubt 1.5 years would be the total time needed.
|
Deira Lenia
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:07:00 - [ 142]
A torpraven moves faster has longer range and deals more DPS then a blasterthron.
Its been like that for ages. Its why people respecced away from gallente half a year
ago when torps got nerfed.
Senseless whiner, things get nerfed with every patch and after a month noone notices or cares anymore. Damps, Nos, ECM, Amarr, Caldari. All got nerfed, all adapted.
You go whine about your blasterthron being ineffective, the full chances are not even known yet and no test are capable of being made.
Your walking far infront of the music, and therefor a dirty whiner. Not to mention a idiot. |
Esmenet
Gallente |
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:35:00 - [ 143]
Originally by: FOBOS DUNE
Caldari has been a totally waste of time for PvP for ages (only good gang ships with EW roles).
So the "magic" word for pvp was Blasters.
Its fun to see so many gallendes crying coz, they are now Caldaris
My Mega sucks omg! Really? blahblahblahblah....
Lol i bet you are one of those clueless noobs that fly a pve fit drake in pvp. |
Esmenet
Gallente |
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:37:00 - [ 144]
Originally by: ShardowRhino
Soooo does this mean i can finally bust out some blaster ships without looking like a FOTM-Weenie??
Lol its a loooong time since blaster ships was anything like a fotm. They are barely useful now. |
Kerosene
Caldari
V I R I I
Merciless. |
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:39:00 - [ 145]
Trained Amarr cruiser V a while back but I still have only ever flown Gallente since my character rolled off the production line 5 years ago. That wasn't because of chasing the FOTM, but because I was determined to pick a race and be the best at it.
I'll have to train amarr laser spec med/large but I just can't see how an optimal + falloff of less than 20km will be viable any more. Gallente aren't known for their tanking. It's all to do with kill them before you get killed. That's what makes it so exciting. Once these changes come in then gallente ships, particularly the megathron and astarte will just get kited.
Looks like laser pew it is. The only time my gallente ships will be viable are in a long range fleet or station/bubble camping where I can guarantee starting <10km from the target and even then I might not be able to hit them without webbing drones in addition to stasis web. :( |
Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:44:00 - [ 146]
Originally by: Solomon XI
Edited by: Solomon XI on 23/10/2008 21:28:23
I don't know how many of you are listening to the live dev blog at the moment, but CCP just confirmed that Blasters are **fine**. Despite multiple topics explaining their faults with this upcoming patch ... increased mass, weaker MWD's, tiny optimals ... CCP just said that they *think Blasters will be fine* and have no intention of making any modifications to them.
CCP, you FAIL.
You have countless topics EXPLAINING to you the problems. And you DO NOT listen.
A year and a half of spec training GONE. Smooth move.
/me goes to train Amarr Cruiser V and Medium T2 lasers. An Absolution is my only answer.
Yes! Excellent idea! Go train for the next FOTM. Oh and don't forget to come back and whine in a year when that gets nerfed too. |
Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise. |
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:49:00 - [ 147]
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
Learn to adapt, or die. You put all your eggs in one basket, now you live with your choice.
so i'm a gallente, and becuase i trained to a high level in blasters, which is meant to be the gal "thing", at least mainly that a fault we need to live with? ccp have us skills to be able to spec things, they created the very basket you say we put our eggs in! not dont get me wrong this does not effect me more than 25% as i over the years am specced in several races, but to say this is our fault for speccing somthing is stupid, a new player might have spent a year speccing one gun type (becuase shorter time in game he can be great at one type but if he trained all of them he would only be average in all) and if he was a gal and choose blasters its his fault? erm.. shuddup |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2008.10.24 14:12:00 - [ 148]
Still gonna use my Blasteranis. Not gonna whine
Not gonna have a problem. |
Matrix Skye
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.10.24 14:50:00 - [ 149]
^^ /thread |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc. |
Posted - 2008.10.24 15:13:00 - [ 150]
I tryed to find a Thread about nerfing Blasters since they are overpowert, supricingly I failed, even looked 2 years back, nope no real Thread about it. The comming patch hits Blasters and Aks hard, Missles will get some changes, gess whatsīs next? I hope all the funny people that like to see Blaster ships nerfed into oblivion will still have fun in a EvE where everything sucks in the end, after ballancing.  Im fully Gallente speced(including Large Blaster Spec 5), I got a fully Amarr speced char to itīs not the problem that I canīt fly other stuff, the problem is I like Blaster Ships, they where fun, not realy a clever choice(at least since the EM Nerf and Torp boost) but fun. A reduction in Speed of speed fitted ships was needet, a general nerf of any short range unnanoed ship, solo PVP, solo BS and Blasters is not.  |
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And Amarr BS 5. 