| Author |
Topic |
Malik Mantille
Minmatar
Chaos Catalysts
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 23:24:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Malik Mantille on 17/10/2008 23:24:42
Ok, anti-cloak ship module pulse weapons? A lot of people don't like this idea, it might be worth looking into, but I can see the complaints... however this does not really address the root of the problem. If a ship has such a device, it would have to already know WHERE the cloaked ship is, within a certain distance, to find it, which is paradoxical itself...not really useful (would help the gate camps who wanna decloak the uncloak-align-cloak but the gate campers already have enough at their disposal and this still does not address the real problem of SS hidden cloakers in local)
a POS module that keeps cloaking down in the system? ehhhh no. If you have sovereignty the ability to cloak is one SMALL ability left to people to get in there safely.. you can create your supply lines with your gate bridges and block cynos in system, its fine that someone can cloak...I've no complaints with current system as far as sov factors go...)
What IS the problem. These annoying tarts sitting in local for 8 hours. Easy fix. require a reapplication of the cloak module at random intervals. Instead of going from green to off, go from green -> yellow flashing, if its yellow you must reapply the cloak, if you do before this timer runs out (10 seconds?) then you remain cloaked, if not, you decloak... give it a set minimum (5-10minutes?) so you know how long you have to go use the restroom if you use cloaks for this. Make it obvious with a easily seen visual cue, but make it so that people who just afk cloak can't continue this.
I hate nerfs so to speak, so this, I don't feel is a nerf, but rather adding some more required interaction to someone who just loads the game cloaks and never even opens the client back up for the rest of the day. I'd like something to be done, but nerfing it...please don't.
discuss. |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 12:33:00 - [ 2]
AFK Cloaking is psychological warfare. You counter it with your own, no game mechanic changes needed.
If that isn't enough, counter the AFK bit, not the cloaks. Cloaks themselves are fine just the way they are and they're difficult enough to work with as it is. |
Malik Mantille
Minmatar
Chaos Catalysts
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 13:01:00 - [ 3]
 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
AFK Cloaking is psychological warfare. You counter it with your own, no game mechanic changes needed.
If that isn't enough, counter the AFK bit, not the cloaks. Cloaks themselves are fine just the way they are and they're difficult enough to work with as it is.
currently cloaks are 100% safe, in 0.0 this should never ever be the case. Perhaps my idea is a bit overzealous, even though i field it somewhat fair. But how about probe lag? If you sit in the same spot for too long, say 15-20 minutes the cloak can find this residual location.... given the mechanics, you could also scan the probe again, once you're local to him, and you'd see his marker moving in space so you could feasibly align to the new location after the second probe and head towards him, adjusting your speed to full you'd be able to eventually bump him, this wouldn't stop people who cloak and warp about, but they're not who I despise so much..it will also allow the knowledge of their location. The return could be "cloaking signature" and would appear if a cloak is active in any specific area and is still active in that area within an au of the timer. that way, if I initiate a cloak, move around and recloak, it would still be seen as you've never left the location where you initiated the claok. warping will reset this timer. |
Itukki |
Posted - 2008.10.21 13:10:00 - [ 4]
Edited by: Itukki on 21/10/2008 13:13:14
I actually agree with malik in general. Having afk cloakers does suck and is often being used as it was not intended or designed for. No module is and should be designed to fulfill the needs of those that are afk.
Before going further, I think that you need to distingush between a few ships/modules when you talk about cloakers. You can probably put them in 3 different catagories depending on how hard it would be to find or detect a cloaked ship;
1) covert ops
2) recon ships + stealth bombers (t2 cloaking mods)
3) other ships (t1 cloaking mods)
Group 1) should not be detected since it´s pretty much what covert ops do in general.
Group 2) Can be detected but not located (if cloaked ship is on grid - you´ll see distance in km from your probe)
Group 3) Can be detected and located but VERY time consuming
The way you could detect cloaked ships would be with some "anti-cloaking probe" that a handful of ships can use. Would suggest having some risk involved mechanics of the one using that module, such as drains cap of probing ship, unable to fit dps or proper tank. So when the probing module is used, the ship is pretty defenseless and not ideal for pvp fights.
Lot of ways to implement some degree of anti-cloaking modules but they need to be risk-based for the one detecting cloaked ships. |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 13:28:00 - [ 5]
Bear in mind that cloaks are the counter to probes. I think if we're going to address this balance problem, you need a continuum rather than all-or-nothing. Probing outside of deadspace has been commented on many times to be very simple for an experienced operator, finding ships in seconds. Cloaks counter this but are 100% effective. We seem to be dancing around the core issue that currently either you're dead easy to find or impossible to find.
Neither situation to my mind is a good one. Intel gathering should be an inexact science or even black art; space is big and you really ought to be able to hide in it well, but equally, a concerted effort (it must be quite specialised, we don't want every fleet just saying 'oh well, bring one of those along for the cloakers') should at least have some chance of finding you.
EVE is quite close to submarine warfare in many ways but lacks the same hunter/hunted aspects due to two things: local and probes/cloaks. I could support a greater variety and depth of cloaking and probing technology that meant you could only be found by someone with equal or superior training/modules. |
Ashley Thomas
Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
Posted - 2008.10.22 00:11:00 - [ 6]
first off, remove local = remove the problem.
second, cloaks do have a scan resolution penalty coupled with a targeting delay. your effectivly damping yourself as well as giving your target a head start to get away.
if you get probed out in low sec doing a mission by one of the afk cloaking people then its your own dumb fault for getting caught. we had several people in our alliance fall victim to it. first time we told them how to avoid it, second time we laughed at them.
as far as 0.0 goes, there have been plenty of times where my heart felt like it was gonna pop out if my chest as the intercepters and cruisers did a sweep in the space next to me, often coming very close to uncloaking me, and even succesful a few times. If you know what your doing you can counter and/or avoid it. one way to avoid getting ganked is to use your scanner. if your in a mission and a snoop probe shows up on the directional, then align to a warpable object and shout prober over any friendly channel you got open.
Point is this, if you get probed by a covert ops, ganked by a recon, or for epic failures caught by a T1 cloaking battleship, its your own dumb fault. don't cry nerf cloaks after you get ganked. learn how to avoid it. There were several people back at our old low sec stomping grounds that we could never catch. they didn't have any T2 detection modules or anti-cloaking 50km smartbombs, all they used was a free, standard issue directional scanner, a simple, but very effective tool that too many people don't know how to use.
/end rant
if you seriously want to learn how to avoid getting ganked, or learn how to probe, feel free to drop into our public channel KIITHPAKTU |
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