| Author |
Topic |
No seriously |
Posted - 2008.09.23 04:20:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: No seriously on 23/09/2008 04:55:41
Edited by: No seriously on 23/09/2008 04:54:03
I'm just trying to make some money on my own as a starting-out industrialist. Making t1 mods is basically netting me jack and I suck at trading. I kind of got lucky on something at made a hunk of cash and I want to try making a POS.
Basically, I have the money to put up a medium tower. I still need to get enough faction to get my single player corp up to 5.0, and I'm working on that. Fortunately that gives me time to PLAN. :)
My biggest concern is how to make myself an unappealing target for wardec. I won't be able to defend myself, so my only recourse in case of wardec would be to take the day off work, wait for the aggressing corp to be offline, and offline my POS. Pain in the ass, but necessary. That or hire mercs or pay a random - both uncomfortable propositions if I'm "caught with my pants down" before my POS is profitable.
Anyway, this post is about just that: HOW to make my POS an unappealing target while making sure it's still viable as a moneymaker. First I considered a Caldari tower, the large CPU is appealing for a high sec industrial POS.
Perhaps I could ask for advice here though, because perhaps for defensive purposes, a Gallente tower would be superior?
OK, so defenses: Basically I need the POS to look like enough of a pain in the butt that aggressors will look at it and go "yeah this guy isn't a dimwit, he'll probably pull his blueprints and mods when we wardec and it would be a ***** to take it down anyway..." and look for a squishier target.
What mods have the highest deterrent factor?
First I was thinking ECMs. Now... that would be great if I've got a Caldari tower. Pretty cool. However, can an assaulting fleet just snipe out my ECM batteries? (And if they can, that would be relatively difficult for them, I imagine? Looking at an optimal of 200km...)
Is it worthwhile to say... have my defensive batteries anchored and offlined so I'm not worried about hauling crap into place when I get wardecced... so that I can go in, offline a lab or storage or factory?
What else, besides ECM? What about hardeners? Is it heavily worthwhile to put hardeners on the shield holes? (For Caldari that's EM and Explo, so two or three hardeners to beef that up? I'm guessing Amarr are oft used for POS assault, so... I'm imagining 2 EM hardeners wouldn't hurt?)
I'm almost thinking it would be a good idea to set up an array of "oh my god this pos would be such a *****" type mods... like a rack of ECMs, web, and scram.
But hey I'm just guessing. Total stab in the dark here. This is a learning process, and I'm hoping to get some advice here:)
Thanks :)
PS: "Derr" question about POSes: Ozone and Water usage per hour is based off of % of PG/CPU used, yes?
EDIT: Alright, so... a "first stab" at a POS setup.
Caldari medium tower
Explosion dampening array
Photon scattering array
Phase, Spatial, White Noise, and Ion batteries
Warp Disruption battery
4x torpedo batteries
... and room for "other stuff"
I'm assuming I could sneak a few things offline here and there to accommodate more $-generation. In fact, I'd want to sneak a few things offline here and there just to cut costs >,<
It's just a first try, please don't flame, it's why I'm asking for advice. |
Lo Lightshard
4 wing
-Mostly Harmless- |
Posted - 2008.09.23 05:25:00 - [ 2]
 Originally by: No seriously
I won't be able to defend myself, so my only recourse in case of war dec would be to take the day off work, wait for the aggressing corp to be offline, and offline my POS.
You will get 24 hour warning, you must be war deced before your tower can be aggressed. As for defense there are two schools of thought. Make it cheap or make it annoying. Cheap is no mods except tower and labs. Rip down the labs when you're war deced and they have one less reason to attack the tower as it's worth nothing to them. Annoying is as many hardeners and as much e-war as you can fit; web, scram, damps, jammers and as many guns as you have PG for. The e-war stuff will need to be offline when the labs are up. The hope here is that the potential attacker moves on to the next POS. In the end you can never guarantee that you will be left alone. Pick a quiet system and keep a low profile is the best advice. Yes, fuel used depends on modules online. Liquid O3 for CPU and heavy H2O for PG. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa |
Posted - 2008.09.23 11:41:00 - [ 3]
If you have labs in a system without a station it screams 'I keep BPOs in here'.
Have the POS in a system with a station.
Add HP (hardners), that means it will take alot longer.
Add Ewar (ECM), that will reduce their damage and ability to remote rep.
Add Warp Disruption, that will provide risk, as they can't just warp away.
Add Damage, so that things are going to die.
If you're online every day, you can keep the defensive mods offline, but if you are going to miss a day, it's a good idea to at least have some ECM/warp disruption and damage online.
Keep in mind you may resort to using guns rather than just missiles as they don't require CPU, and will still function in reinforced.
If your tower makes it into reinforced, guns will be all that you have to defend it, aside from your own fleet, when it comes out.
Generally just a handful of ECM + warp disruptors (At least 2) + damage will keep most people from wanting to have a go, unless they really don't like you.
In lowsec of course ECM is less useful as dreads in siege and motherships will be immune to it. |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T. |
Posted - 2008.09.23 12:34:00 - [ 4]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
If you have labs in a system without a station it screams 'I keep BPOs in here'.
Have the POS in a system with a station.
And have an office and really keep them there. Even if it is likely that there are no blueprints to be looted you could still be wardecced by people being after the labs, so really keep the minimum in the POS. Also your proposed setup would die fast to a motivated crew. Caldari POS kinda suck for defence so I would actually not have any but have at least 5 offline hardeners, preferably more (not sure it will fit on a medium) so it is obvious that should you be wardecced the labs will be unanchored and the hardeners onlined. |
Tinker1947 |
Posted - 2008.09.23 12:40:00 - [ 5]
If you can join a alliance, it won't stop Wardec's but make it a bit more expensive for people to pick on you... |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa |
Posted - 2008.09.23 13:49:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Caldari POS kinda suck for defence so I would actually not have any but have at least 5 offline hardeners, preferably more (not sure it will fit on a medium) so it is obvious that should you be wardecced the labs will be unanchored and the hardeners onlined.
5 hardners for a large POS for sure, you only really want 2 on a medium though. The rest of the CPU is better used by ECM etc. In highsec that will make it take longer to kill, and be more annoying. If you don't have any ECM a handful of people could kill it mostly afk. |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T. |
Posted - 2008.09.23 13:54:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
5 hardners for a large POS for sure, you only really want 2 on a medium though. The rest of the CPU is better used by ECM etc. In highsec that will make it take longer to kill, and be more annoying. If you don't have any ECM a handful of people could kill it mostly afk.
ECM mods die quickly to dronage and are less of a speed bump than more hardeners. Also give the attacker a sense of progress. If you go for frustration hardener >> ecm |
Braaage
Ministry of Craft
|
Posted - 2008.09.23 13:56:00 - [ 8]
High sec towers are sought after for thier labs - so on a war dec - remove the labs and fit hardeners.
If they want to destroy your POS it will cost them a crap load of ammo (unless they bring the lasers). |
No seriously |
Posted - 2008.09.23 17:08:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: Braaage
High sec towers are sought after for thier labs - so on a war dec - remove the labs and fit hardeners.
If they want to destroy your POS it will cost them a crap load of ammo (unless they bring the lasers).
Thanks for the tips guys! Yeah I'm usually on daily, if I decide to go anywhere for a couple days I'll online hardeners, if I'm going to be gone for a week I'll just take down the POS. Aside from that, there seems to be some disagreement about what sort of defenses I should fit... like ECMs and such? |
SynackFin
Caldari
Ornery Cantankerous Curmudgeons
|
Posted - 2008.09.23 17:36:00 - [ 10]
just a side note regarding your efforts to increase your profits from your efforts... you may want to look into the fuel requirements of a faction tower over standard racial. You'll spend more ISK up front to purchase, but your long term savings may be worth it in fuel saved month over month.
|
Braaage
Ministry of Craft
|
Posted - 2008.09.23 17:38:00 - [ 11]
My personal opinion on the matter is that an attacking force will always come prepared to take down your POS no matter what it's fitting is. Hardeners will prolong the agony a lot more specially in high sec where dreads cannot be used. |
No seriously |
Posted - 2008.09.23 23:44:00 - [ 12]
Originally by: Braaage
My personal opinion on the matter is that an attacking force will always come prepared to take down your POS no matter what it's fitting is. Hardeners will prolong the agony a lot more specially in high sec where dreads cannot be used.
So really, is there much point in having guns at all? Or just annoy the f* out of them with hardeners and ECM? Or am I thinking of the ECM the wrong way? I've seen it discussed as both a manner of breaking spider-tanks, but also as a way to keep them from shooting the POS, thus aggravating them and slowing their progress. BTW, I'm still not clear: which mods CAN and CAN NOT be shot within the POS field? |
Saracena
Minmatar
Infinatech
|
Posted - 2008.09.24 01:39:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: No seriously
Originally by: Braaage
My personal opinion on the matter is that an attacking force will always come prepared to take down your POS no matter what it's fitting is. Hardeners will prolong the agony a lot more specially in high sec where dreads cannot be used.
So really, is there much point in having guns at all?
Or just annoy the f* out of them with hardeners and ECM?
Or am I thinking of the ECM the wrong way? I've seen it discussed as both a manner of breaking spider-tanks, but also as a way to keep them from shooting the POS, thus aggravating them and slowing their progress.
BTW, I'm still not clear: which mods CAN and CAN NOT be shot within the POS field?
Your guns, ecm mods, and all that have to be deployed outside the forcefield. Which means they can be targetted and destroyed. Labs, corp hangars and building structures are all inside the field and can't be hit until the forcefield is down. Basically a lot of good advice up above; I recommend spending extra and getting a faction tower for the long term cost savings. Guns are cheap and if you do exploring in 0.0 you can find faction pos gear and build it yourself. Like the people above said, just have you guns and hardeners offlined until you get wardecced. Then you offline your labs and online everything else. Try and have at least one other person to help you when the wardec becomes active and be sure that person has the skill to control pos guns. A large enough BS fleet is still gonna ruin your day, but 10 guns that can focus fire will also inflict a serious amount of damage on whoever's attacking. Lastly some friends with nanotyphoons that can bump your attacking fleet away from spidertanking themselves is also helpful  A research POS is a serious investment and you should do everything in your power to protect that investment. |
Lo Lightshard
4 wing
-Mostly Harmless- |
Posted - 2008.09.24 04:35:00 - [ 14]
Not sure about faction towers. I haven't done the maths lately but with fuel so cheap and tower prices up due to recent changes it could take years to pay them off.
Also, the more value you have in your POS the more likely you will be worth being ransomed. |
Lo Lightshard
4 wing
-Mostly Harmless- |
Posted - 2008.09.24 04:37:00 - [ 15]
Oh, and one other tip. I'm pretty sure someone taxed the ammo from my offline but anchored guns recently. If this is possible you will need to online your guns or have some ammo somewhere close. |
No seriously |
Posted - 2008.09.24 04:59:00 - [ 16]
Edited by: No seriously on 24/09/2008 04:59:47 Originally by: Lo Lightshard
Not sure about faction towers. I haven't done the maths lately but with fuel so cheap and tower prices up due to recent changes it could take years to pay them off.
Also, the more value you have in your POS the more likely you will be worth being ransomed.
Yeah wow... uhm. I did some rough numbers. Basically the savings of going with a dread guristas med tower as opposed to a caldari med tower is about half a mil per day in fuel. That would take like a year and a half to pay for itself I guess. I suppose it's nice that you could go longer between fuellings, but uh... I guess it's not a huge deal since if I go on vacation or something I'll be taking it DOWN. Ugh. Boy oh boy did I f**k up. I bought the blueprint for a DG medium tower the other day. Wow. Guess I'll end up selling it at a loss and buying a Caldari medium. *facepalm* Originally by: Lo Lightshard
Oh, and one other tip. I'm pretty sure someone taxed the ammo from my offline but anchored guns recently. If this is possible you will need to online your guns or have some ammo somewhere close.
I'm not following you... |
Lo Lightshard
4 wing
-Mostly Harmless- |
Posted - 2008.09.24 05:22:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: No seriously
Originally by: Lo Lightshard
Oh, and one other tip. I'm pretty sure someone taxed the ammo from my offline but anchored guns recently. If this is possible you will need to online your guns or have some ammo somewhere close.
I'm not following you...
I think other players can steal ammo from your anchored but offline guns. If this is the case only put ammo in online guns. |
Tungulria Lightfingers
Wrecking Shots
|
Posted - 2008.09.24 17:09:00 - [ 18]
First off its really not all that smart to have defenses on POS that are not online. If the people who war deck you know what they are doing they can throw your POS into Reinforced mode. This keeps you from having the ability to change anything on your station until the wardeck has been confirmed. In other words, when the deck your corp you will not be able to take down or change anything on your POS for 24 hours. Most corps that attack stations will launch an attack the hour they can fight. If you cannot defend your station they can kill your station then, or hit the shields hard enough to drop it below 50% and return later to finish it off. The best thing to do is have a lot of artilery batteries and ECM to prolong the time it takes for the enemy to take out your station. Also, have an arangment set up with a corp so when you ar decked the pvp corp can deck them right away. Then while the enemy is killing your defenses the pvp corp can kill them. |
No seriously |
Posted - 2008.09.24 17:14:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Tungulria Lightfingers
First off its really not all that smart to have defenses on POS that are not online. If the people who war deck you know what they are doing they can throw your POS into Reinforced mode. This keeps you from having the ability to change anything on your station until the wardeck has been confirmed. In other words, when the deck your corp you will not be able to take down or change anything on your POS for 24 hours. Most corps that attack stations will launch an attack the hour they can fight. If you cannot defend your station they can kill your station then, or hit the shields hard enough to drop it below 50% and return later to finish it off. The best thing to do is have a lot of artilery batteries and ECM to prolong the time it takes for the enemy to take out your station. Also, have an arangment set up with a corp so when you ar decked the pvp corp can deck them right away. Then while the enemy is killing your defenses the pvp corp can kill them.
But they have to issue the wardec AND THEN wait 24 hours before they can shoot my POS OR me, OR I can shoot them. How could they put my POS into reinforced BEFORE the 24 hours is up? And even then, ince the 24 hour wait is up, it would take them several hours to put the POS into reinforced if I've got hardeners online, etc? |
piro man |
Posted - 2008.09.24 17:47:00 - [ 20]
The minute the war deck is declared the POS goes into Reinforeced from my understanding. It stays in reinforced for the 24 hour grace period. That is to keep people from doing exactly what you are talking about. An friendly corp lost their POS because they thought the same thing. This is so you cannot change your POS from a research lab to a defensive POS during the grace piriod. It is almost imposible to take out a large defensive POS in high sec because of the limmit on ship size. So to keep things even the rule is in place. |
No seriously |
Posted - 2008.09.24 18:54:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: piro man
The minute the war deck is declared the POS goes into Reinforeced from my understanding. It stays in reinforced for the 24 hour grace period. That is to keep people from doing exactly what you are talking about. An friendly corp lost their POS because they thought the same thing. This is so you cannot change your POS from a research lab to a defensive POS during the grace piriod. It is almost imposible to take out a large defensive POS in high sec because of the limmit on ship size. So to keep things even the rule is in place.
Hmm, large POS does sound better, but quite a bit too rich for my blood. Well, being that I don't even know how profitable my POS operations will be. Hopefully I can just stick my medium POS out of the way somewhere, cross my fingers... >.< |
Lugs Brannigan
Minmatar |
Posted - 2008.09.24 22:55:00 - [ 22]
Edited by: Lugs Brannigan on 24/09/2008 22:55:01 Originally by: piro man
The minute the war deck is declared the POS goes into Reinforeced from my understanding. It stays in reinforced for the 24 hour grace period. That is to keep people from doing exactly what you are talking about. An friendly corp lost their POS because they thought the same thing. This is so you cannot change your POS from a research lab to a defensive POS during the grace piriod. It is almost imposible to take out a large defensive POS in high sec because of the limmit on ship size. So to keep things even the rule is in place.
Are you kidding me??? From what I know of POS operations a war dec does NOT send a tower into reinforced mode. The shields have to be reduced to 25% afaik for the tower to enter reinforced. |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T. |
Posted - 2008.09.25 00:43:00 - [ 23]
Originally by: piro man
The minute the war deck is declared the POS goes into Reinforeced from my understanding. It stays in reinforced for the 24 hour grace period. That is to keep people from doing exactly what you are talking about. An friendly corp lost their POS because they thought the same thing. This is so you cannot change your POS from a research lab to a defensive POS during the grace piriod. It is almost imposible to take out a large defensive POS in high sec because of the limmit on ship size. So to keep things even the rule is in place.
You have no understanding whatsoever. And I say that as someone who popped wardecced POS and that didn't get his POS reinforced as he got wardecced. And all POS die unless they are actively defended (fleet or POS gunner, preferably both). |
Aesynil
Caldari
The Unit... |
Posted - 2008.09.25 05:30:00 - [ 24]
Nothing you can do, short of a fleet in defense, can stop a dedicated enemy from taking down your POS. It's just extremely tedious. Avoiding angering people, unanchor the labs if war dec'd to make it worthless to pop, slap some hardeners on, and enjoy knowing you just made half a dozen players siege a tower for 7 hours. |
No seriously |
Posted - 2008.09.25 06:25:00 - [ 25]
Originally by: Aesynil
Nothing you can do, short of a fleet in defense, can stop a dedicated enemy from taking down your POS. It's just extremely tedious. Avoiding angering people, unanchor the labs if war dec'd to make it worthless to pop, slap some hardeners on, and enjoy knowing you just made half a dozen players siege a tower for 7 hours.
Except from what some guys have said here, it sounds like it's not possible to unanchor the labs and anchor new hardeners between the wardec and actual war start. |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T. |
Posted - 2008.09.25 06:32:00 - [ 26]
Originally by: No seriously
Originally by: Aesynil
Nothing you can do, short of a fleet in defense, can stop a dedicated enemy from taking down your POS. It's just extremely tedious. Avoiding angering people, unanchor the labs if war dec'd to make it worthless to pop, slap some hardeners on, and enjoy knowing you just made half a dozen players siege a tower for 7 hours.
Except from what some guys have said here, it sounds like it's not possible to unanchor the labs and anchor new hardeners between the wardec and actual war start.
Yeah according to utterly clueless people. Also as anchoring takes time I recommend you anchor hardeners beforehand so you only have to online them, you'll be glad you did so. |
Newbear |
Posted - 2008.09.25 08:04:00 - [ 27]
best way to avoid being war dec'd is to not post in forums! oh wait oh noes, you posted! oh wait oh noes, so did I! Pies are too lazy and unorganized to war dec and attack a hi-sec pos. Just unanchor and reanchor everything after war over. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa |
Posted - 2008.09.25 12:10:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Braaage
My personal opinion on the matter is that an attacking force will always come prepared to take down your POS no matter what it's fitting is. Hardeners will prolong the agony a lot more specially in high sec where dreads cannot be used.
It means though some people simply don't come. I fought off 7 carriers, 2 dreads and a Mothership just using the guns of a med POS + a convo with the right placed words ;) The reality is if the POS is well defended enough, if you bring enough to take it down any potential ransom isn't worth the effort, so you're only going to take down POS's that are well defended if you have a personal grudge. |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T. |
Posted - 2008.09.25 13:20:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: Newbear
best way to avoid being war dec'd is to not post in forums! oh wait oh noes, you posted! oh wait oh noes, so did I! Pies are too lazy and unorganized to war dec and attack a hi-sec pos. Just unanchor and reanchor everything after war over.
Highsec POS are attractive ransom targets because when they are not in alt corps you cannot usually play that game. Seldom any real corp save one of veteran mission runners will have the standing to reanchor the POS if they unanchor it. |
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
|
Posted - 2008.09.26 20:24:00 - [ 30]
Arm that Med POS up yo the teeth and be sure that you skill up on POS gunnery to lvl 4....Have a friend do the same.
Since your using a Caldari tower, load up on the ECM and try and go light on the missile platforms (they do crap dps)
It's pretty amazing what just 2 POS gunners can do |
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