| Author |
Topic |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.09.21 14:41:00 - [ 1]
Disclaimer : Incoherent wall of text (ramble) below
... if you spin your thoughts further and further, to make some sense or add cool features, that you end up with a completly diffrent game ?
I recently thought about the advent of "walking in stations" and "the speed nerf" , you know realy BIG changes to regular gameplay , that i can come up with changes on my own!
First thing i came up with was tanking
(note this is a i think that would be cool/makes more sense not necesarily this would be better for eve kinda idea)
Tanking should be done with shields why is there even armor tanking ?
In my mind armor add lots of weight blablabla real life example yadda yadda but this is internet spaceships blablabla but but but etc.
to cut things short
armor "tanking" = cumbersome brick
shield "tanking" = lighter more agile more acceleration etc.
and who came up with shield armor AND structure thats just weired
i could probably write up a page of that with concepts and ideas...
such as in that world a frigate should not be able to overcome the completly unaugmented (by modules) passive shield regen of a battlecruiser and up (and im talking all races)
among other things
Wich brings me to
Weapon arcs
There are none. A ship can basicaly fire thru itself and its own guns and for some reason it has double the amount of guns so it can fire to the other side aswell but not all at the time because for some reason that doesnt work ? ummm yeah im sure the same writers that came up with some of those awesome module descriptions can come up with an explenation here aswell but i dont care this is a ramble :p
no weapon field of fire/arcs means fleet formations (a sometimes talked about "i want" feature ) is pointless
if there where such a thing that would lead me to something else
Turrets!
It alwas striked me as strange that not even capital ships have turret batteries or something like that. I mean comon a huge ass carrier doesnt even have a single gun on it to shoot down or at least deter drones and frigates and the likes ? yeah thats gona happen....
thats 2 things for weapon arcs
nr 3 would be
i could actualy use my light and nimble cruiser and atempt to stay out that big big battleships main guns weapon arcs and just hold it there till my friends arrive or he slowly gets away
unless.... im silly enough to actualy get infront of his guns .. well then its bye bye world
a way for smaller ships to be actualy capable of doing anything exept being a meat shield or an ewar ship both of wich will explode fast in a semi big fight...
of couse i could babble more about weapons (damage type distribution etc) but ill leave that up for you peoples imagination (ok the 3 guys that might even read past line 5 ;) )
the last thing that stroke me as changeworthy in the advent of ambulation and that idea of planetary asteroid belts and those asteroid colonys u see sometimes in missions
the pod and living space
always thought that a "command module" type of thing where u can be integrated blablabla storyline excuse blablabla would make more sense than that pod there
especialy with ambulation ... saves me from downloading my brain into a blank (mac formatted) robot in every station every time i dock... only to discover i left the clothes in the last station and didnt bring it with me....
in any case that brings me to living quarters
how come in space where everything should be at a premium thats unlimited space in stations !?!??!
heres yet another idea... :
Asteroid based "standard accomodations" (free) : very limited storage capacity and room for 1 frigate
next higher path = for a little fee you may rent a room, storage and a place to dock a ship in an asteroid complex u could even rent another docking port if you own more than 1 ship (ships could be seen from the outside (yay intel) but as everything in that complex be indestructable ..)
all the way to big ass station berthing rights and more uses for a corporation hangar especialy if your new to the game .... |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.09.21 14:45:00 - [ 2]
and many many other things i could write multiple pages about.. but yeah as i say in the beginning youd end up with a completly diffrent game... tl;dr version: I wish EVE was more like i-war2 and not a space strategy game where can only move 1 ship unless your an alliance leader then you can move lots of ships but only when people are online  |
Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
|
Posted - 2008.09.21 23:18:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: Dristra on 21/09/2008 23:19:17
You should focus on one of your "thoughts" at a time, or it will all look like pointless rambling.
Trying to base your opinions on something other than "im right" also helps.
Edit: typo |
Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service |
Posted - 2008.09.21 23:24:00 - [ 4]
 Originally by: IR Scoutar
and many many other things i could write multiple pages about..
but yeah as i say in the beginning
youd end up with a completly diffrent game...
tl;dr version:
I wish EVE was more like i-war2 and not a space strategy game where can only move 1 ship
unless your an alliance leader then you can move lots of ships but only when people are online
then go play i-war2. |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.09.22 00:11:00 - [ 5]
Originally by: Dristra
You should focus on one of your "thoughts" at a time, or it will all look like pointless rambling.
Originally by: myself
Disclaimer : Incoherent wall of text (ramble) below
as far as the "i am right" thing goes... i suppose i should have made it more clear that this RAMBLE was more ment as a statement towards allot of the features and ideas posted in here will infact make eve a completly diffrent game, no matter the quality of ideas put forth by the comunity as for mr whitty "then go play i-war2" i thank you so much for your educated contribution but coad is a few sections up (also read above statement) |
soldieroffortune 258
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 00:22:00 - [ 6]
just because its "armor" doesnt necessarily mean its huge and cumbersome, remember, this game is 20k years into the future, and we are already making hyper alloys and crap w/ nano carbon technology, the gallente's armor tank could be just that the gallente have FAR superior nano technology than the caldari or (most) minmatar and the same could be flipped around for the caldari, they just have way more advanced field projection technology than the gallente or minmatar as for the three "life bars" (shield, armor and structure) thats kinda obvious, the shields stay up until they cant support any more and just collapse, then attacks start hitting the gallentes super nano armor, and once the nano armor is gone (as in, it gets blasted away) it shows the soft structure same thing works on tanks nowadays ( the giant rolling thing w / big ass turret ) they have whats called "reactive armor" in which a projectile (mainly for anti missile purposes) hits the reactive armor, and the armor around the impact point literally EXPLODES destroying the missile before it can cause any more damage, when that armor is gone, it shows the soft STRUCTURE of the tank that can easily be penetrated the same case is for the gallente, its just that their armor regenerates for weapon arcs these are ships in space, no gravity to pull the projectiles down, therfore they go until they hit something, and before you start saying "even you said this is 20k years in the future, you would think they could hit something!!!) thats where tracking speed comes in, the turret cant rotate fast enough to lead the target, and therfore misses, oh, and the ships dont fire through themselves iirc, the turrets are placed at every possible angle to specifically prevent that no, they are CARRIERS, everything is designed on the ship for benefit of the FIGHTERS, you want big guns, go get a dreadnaught, and besides that, cariers can fit smartbombs, true they are not THE weapon, but still, helps get rid of enemy fighters and capital ships are not meant to be "can do everything" ships, they are meant to have a support fleet as for the asteroid bases, tbh, might not be a bad idea, you MIGHT be on to something there, but then if they were built into the "interiors" of those asteroids, it would mean the asteroids themselves would have to be destroyable, which could be  exploitable . . . . . . (that would be fun, blowing up an entire asteroid belt with tons of miners just mining away in it  anyway, the only "good" thing i got out of this was the asteroid belt habitation modules thing, thats it though tbh |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.09.22 18:33:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: IR Scoutar on 22/09/2008 18:55:52god i didnt think id actualy have to explain my ideas in more detail but ok  (thx for enduring the ramble btw) StructureMkay fair point ArmorIf i remember the storyline correctly gallente and caldari where together and wars and all that jazz. So from that perspective (if memory serves right) it would make much more sense for gallente to be primarily shield tankers and then over time blablabla storyline blabla they also became armor tankers in any case Armor tanking module wise i picked out Large shield extender and 1600mm Plate to look at implemented technology drawbacks LSE : Signature Radius Bonus 25m (thats an aditional 25m not -25m ... ) Plate : Mass Addition 3,750,000 kg The ingame description of these modules support that aswell but thats passive what about active ? lets look at Large Armor Repairer II and X-Large Shield Booster II SB : volume 50 .... ummm nothing else (was suprised when i saw that ) AR : volume 50 , MASS 500.0 kgon a side note energized magnetic membrane sure uses allot of calculating power to turn on those "Uses advanced magnetic Field generators" wich run on barly any power but ok i can feel thers a good storyline excuse for that so i wont dwell on that back to armor is cumbersome My view is that the ingame stats of various modules seem to support the notion that armor is more cumbersome while shield enhancing modules dont seem to be as for the ship design thats very very messy but lets compare brutix and cyclone from standard stats wise cyclone vs brutix mass 12,500,000 kg vs 13,250,000 kginertia 0.88 vs 0.88 structure 3419 vs 4883armor 3906 vs 4395shield 4395 vs 3906 capacitor 2187 vs 2343max velocity 165m/s vs 145m/S signature radius 240m vs 300mcpu 425 vs 425 powergrid 1210 vs 1150 now what does this tell us ? good question ... From this example and from looking at the other ships in the battlecruiser class those stats seem to be a randoma assortment of values ment to keep some sort of balance between ships because those values compared to eachother if you take in the prophecy and the ferox aswell dont make much sense to me because the brutix seems to suggest that more structure and armor means more mass and slower ships while the cyclone suggest that less armor and structure but more shields means less mass and faster ships (and more pg ? ) but then i look at the prophecy and see that less structure and less shields with more armor make for a heavyer ship but at the same time its slightly faster than the brutix (but low cpu ? ) wait what ? ok lets look at the ferox it has the highest mass not the least structure but the least armor and the most shield and is the slowest also it has the most cpu and the least powergrid so what does that tell me ? well first of all computers seem to be very heavy and atributes dont seem to be any sort of direct influence over mass and top speed they are what they are means of balancing the ships their used modules with eachother so you reach a more comon line at least in my eyes if im missiong something big please point me towards it im still eager to learn  as for weapon arcs or field of fire comes in im confused by why you told me the gravity thing but im gona ignore that for now instead i shall direct you to some pictures tempest : http://izlin.free.fr/eve/ships/tempest.jpghttp://www.eve-online-fan.co.uk/images/eveships/tempest.jpgcontinued in next post ... |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.09.22 18:54:00 - [ 8]
... rokh http://izlin.free.fr/eve/ships/rokh.jpgarmageddon http://www.eve-online-fan.co.uk/images/eveships/armageddon.jpgapocalypse http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/430/apoc2ge0.jpghyperion http://izlin.free.fr/eve/ships/hyperion.jpgcant find a picture of its back thut ther are some guns aswell arnt there (sorry i dont look at gallente ships that often  and many many many more abaddon harby thorax etc blablabla they all got something in comon at some point the guns simply shoot thru eachother to hit their target and in extreme cases they even shoot thru the ship because they there is no way an apoc can hit a pod sitting right infront of its nose with all 8 guns nether can a tempest when a pod sits right inline with its guns there is simply no field of fire / arcs for guns wich brought me to my idea with turrets (weaker than the main blaster and the likes ) if weapons have a limited field of fire unique to each ship well then id like to have at least some defence in my vunerable spot so put up a turret so my enemy cant hide in my blind spot forever and that means things like turning speed of the ship , mass , top speed, fleet positioning and composition have much more of an impact as for turrets on capships actualy my main can fly dreads and cant fly carriers  id seem them like those blind spot turrets on smaller ships think of it as 8 non player controlable noob ship guns on my carrier (wich i cant fly  ) wont make much of a dent but will chew thru drones and silly frigates eventualy if theyr alone and too close and im not bothering with smartys at the moment (cap) or whatever it just looks cool ok as far as asteroids and the like goes i think thers a semi big topic about something like that already think that was all yes |
Captator
Perditus Peregrinus |
Posted - 2008.09.22 18:59:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
for weapon arcs
these are ships in space, no gravity to pull the projectiles down, therfore they go until they hit something, and before you start saying "even you said this is 20k years in the future, you would think they could hit something!!!) thats where tracking speed comes in, the turret cant rotate fast enough to lead the target, and therfore misses,
oh, and the ships dont fire through themselves iirc, the turrets are placed at every possible angle to specifically prevent that
no, they are CARRIERS, everything is designed on the ship for benefit of the FIGHTERS, you want big guns, go get a dreadnaught, and besides that, cariers can fit smartbombs, true they are not THE weapon, but still, helps get rid of enemy fighters
You have misunderstood what he means by firing arcs here - what he means is the portion of a sphere that the gun can be brought to bear on - to give a RL example, a tank's gun can be depressed by something like 10 degrees, if the target is below this, the gun cannot hit it, and it can be raised to something like 30 degrees, again if the target is above this, the gun cannot hit (a turret goes 360 degrees horizontally on a tank, so that axis is moot in the example). To apply this to eve, the gun batteries on either side of the Abaddon would have a pair of nearly 1/2 sphere firing arcs where it can bring all 8 turret slots to bear (say 175 degrees), 1 from either side, with a blind spot direcly above, behind, below, and in front, this means that a smaller ship could, if it remained in this blindspot, not take any turret dps from the Abaddon, while hitting it and locking it down. To take another example, a Hyperion would have a blindspot that is fusiform in shape, and only applies when a target ship is very close - leaving a smaller ship pilot the choice of braving being very close to the ship and in web range, but unhittable if it can maintain its position along the side of the hyperion, or try to manoeuvre so that the Hyperion can only bring 4 of its 8 turret slots to bear (because of the way the 2 sets of 4 are set out, there would be points where only 1/2 the guns can come to bear), the tradeoff is that the hyperion has a much smaller 'blind' area than the Abaddon, and at rail or even null ranges, effectively doesn't have one, though it may not be able to bring all guns to bear in some orientations. I could give more examples as this is a feature I would love EVE to have (and have given some thought to), though the sheer number of calculations I think would be required render it unlikely at best. |
IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy |
Posted - 2008.09.22 19:07:00 - [ 10]
yup thats what i ment
and yeah i guess allot of these thing would probably be too lagtastic in big fights but thers hardly anything moving there anyways
in medium sized fights 50 v 50 or so i suppose ship vectors are known to all clients anyways
that just throws in some checks that the server verifys with only the effected clients
with the ones watching the client could interpolate
or if you one of those people (probably more than half the ppl in 0.0 ) you have effects and the likes turned off if you know your going into a big fight and you have a weak computer then this wont impact you at all if your just "watching"
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