| Author |
Topic |
Amandin Adouin
Minmatar |
Posted - 2008.08.18 20:21:00 - [ 121]
Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 18/08/2008 20:22:25
And make 'em pink. Hot pink. |
Nalena Arlath |
Posted - 2008.08.18 20:25:00 - [ 122]
 Originally by: Noobryan
Crystals: That would be nice. Crystals have 0 change time and 0 cooldown once your target has gone pop. Anything else would be putting your expectations too high.
Crystals have cooldown after you pop something. Try using mega beams or mega pulses. After something goes pop the guns are still flashing until their cycle is done. I should know cause I love alphastriking and hate it when some of the guns are still cycling from the last kill. |
Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell |
Posted - 2008.08.18 21:30:00 - [ 123]
Edited by: Katarlia Simov on 18/08/2008 21:37:51
Damn buttons posting before i typed!
Anyway ... The AFs are dreadful because all AF's are dreadful. Their problems are no worse than the other ones, and in fact the vengence is not too bad.
The sentinal is only bad because we got the cruiser sized ones first, so they will always seem underwhelming, and because the hyenah is so much better than the other EAFs its silly.
The t1 ships are meh, because almost every t1 ship is meh. The omen does alright damage for what it is, and theres not a lot else you'd ever bother asking it to do.
The curse will be shaken up post-changes, but will still be nasty because of how effective tracking disruptors can be. It was always a niche ship anyway, compared to its other nano brothers.
The ammarr have SO many fewer problems than they used to, and every race has ships that suck, so don't be too upset. I mean we have three very usable battleships, one bc that can really chew things up, the fastest (base) ceptors, two very solid hacs, the absolution is a beast... I mean seriously. The only place that the amarr are really very poor is in t1 frigs and cruisers, and come on, no-one gives a crap about those anyway. |
Rockajam |
Posted - 2008.08.18 23:34:00 - [ 124]
/signed |
Yakov Draken
Minmatar
Tides Of War |
Posted - 2008.08.19 01:49:00 - [ 125]
Edited by: Yakov Draken on 19/08/2008 01:51:28Obviously the OP's request for an Amarr buff is overshadowed by overall strength of Amarr ships right now. Considering the limited time developers seem to have for "improving" the game going back over Amarr after having just recently given it a thorough review/buff would seem a bit rich. I agree that useless ships suck and considering how long this game has been out it is truly amazing how bad a job has been done of making ships useful. Every race should be gone over time and again until the ships have a role but CCP just don't see it that way. Right now Amarr ships, on the whole, are good. If the same was true for Minmatar I wouldn't want the developers coming anywhere near us. Do you really want CCP messing with Amarr? Such a desire seems both brave and foolish given CCP's past record of balencing. Being a Minmatar pilot I, of course  , have an Amarr combat pvp alt. Gotta love those Amarr ships! Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Actually no. Brutix can be used as rail platform and does very well as a blaster boat too. Nothing wrong with it at all.
There's no real reason to use it over a Myrmidon for close range. Mainly because it's a blaster-boat made out of paper thanks to its grid.
If you want to use a gank/ECM drone/ECM ship combo the Brutix is much better. While this is not to the taste of all I've known too many good Gallente pilots who loved this approach to write it off. The Brutix is also the ultimate in pure gank T1 (ie cheap) BC - you can go over 900dps on total gank fit excluding implants. Implants can take you up close to 1000dps. A less extreme version does 870 dps with 35k EHP. I know alot of people would never fly such a paper thin ship but the bottomline is - do not underestimate the power of gank. Killing people fast is a great form of defence *if* you are good at controling your engagements. I have fought in many, many, up close slug fest with Hail M fitted in my time in Eve. In a large percentage of the combats the key question has been how many of them we can kill before they dock up/de-aggro/flee or blob us. To me that makes the Brutix an appealing "balls to the wall" ship. |
7shining7one7 |
Posted - 2008.08.19 02:38:00 - [ 126]
this is a preemptive thread made by motivated trolls to avoid amarr getting nerfed due to them being very powerful atm.
and ya'll are just buying right into it. |
nakKEDK
Gallente
Diabolus Ex Machina
The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents |
Posted - 2008.08.19 07:15:00 - [ 127]
don't get me wrong, but AMARR is the best race at the moment. End of discussion. |
Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate. |
Posted - 2008.08.19 07:28:00 - [ 128]
Every race has its clunkers, but overall Amarr are quite good at the moment, if not the best.. |
Azbuga
Amarr
Bloody Amarr's |
Posted - 2008.08.19 08:23:00 - [ 129]
ships have they roles - if someone understad he will stop whinning...
maller - there is any other t1 cruiser who can catch ships on low sec gates and stay alive for very long time? not? for this purpose maller its great!
retribution - 1 mid more.. yeach - but this ship its not designed to be uber pvn mobile but for doing damage and having great tank while doing this... any other AF can do more than 200 dps?
vengeance... fit blasters on this ship and you will be happy
pilgrim - any other force recon can kill solo bc? or fit plate 1600? sure fix it :D
|
Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden. |
Posted - 2008.08.19 12:37:00 - [ 130]
first of all, im flying amarr for over a year now, and over one year ago i said "leave our ships as they are, they are fine" we got a few nerfs and also a few boosts and are currently a pretty well balanced race. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Retribution:
-Needs 2 mids. Remove useless 5th utility high and put it in mid. Lets face it, why have a utility slot for a ship with range bonus. Utterly stupid.
i agree that the midslot layout is annyoing, however the retribution is a fine ship when used in gangs, so no need to "fix" it. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Vengeance:
-Rocket damage needs a boost just like torps got a boost for being close range weapons.
i agree rockets with a bit more boom would be nice - for all races. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Omen:
-Needs more powergrid. If you cant fit the lowest tier pulses and cant fit anything else after that you know the ship is broken. This ship needs fitting because its a very crummy ship right now.
i got a omen with 5 t2(!) beams, microwarp drive and a lot of free grid. if you want to boost it add cpu. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Maller:
-No use at all. Its a tanking ship of t1 cruiser class = useless. It needs more damage. Give it a damage bonus.
-Or you could keep the tanking bonus but give it a big drone bay.
the only t1 cruiser which can tank gates useless? roflmao. no need to make it better then other cruisers. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Augoror:
-Caldari get a shield transfer bonus on their support cruiser, why isn't amarr getting armor transfer instead of cap transfer?
cause cap is for amarr ships more important? the augoror is the perfect ship to support high-dps ships or to support capitals. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Curse:
-Will be useless after nano nerf. Without nano it has no tank. If you try to run your ew, wich is neuts + td, you dont have any cap for running tank. If you run a tank youre useless. CCP needs to give the curse the ability to inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods in mids and lows. Same goes for pilgrim.
whine whine whine. how does a tank make it useless? hint: it doesnt, use nos and your tank will help to suck 'em dry. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Pilgrim:
-Range issue still not fixed. All other recons have range bonus except pilgrim. This is obviously wrong. Also same problem as curse: Cant inherently run its ew without 50 cap mods.
do what others do - fit cap mods. ever seen how much cap the damps of an arazu eat? Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Sentinel:
-Same problem as curse. Cant inherently run its ew. Sure you can kill inties in it but a combat inty can do that too. This ship is weak. It also is the only ship class that doesnt get a hp boost compared to its t1 hull eventhough its a t2 ship. All EAS needs more armor and hull etc.
so basically you want ew ships to be assault frigattes with additional ew bonus? the sentinel is a pretty nice ew frigatte, and with its 4 (!) drones its better then for example the gallentean, one - if you want to boost one, the gallentean one needs the most. Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Prophecy:
-Epic fail tier 1 bc. There is simply no reason at all to fly this ship. Yes harbinger can outtank it quite well and do twice the damage while doing that.
-This ship needs bigger drone bay to be useful or get more dps by gun bonus or extra turret. The tank bonus + big drone bay can be an allright combo.
One of the finest bc i did ever fly, tough tank, quite a punch on dps. if you compare the prohpecy to the harbinger you could compare the ferox to the drake aswell.. or the brutix to the myrm. and in all cases you will find that the tier2 ships have advantages over the tier1 ones. .. why make it better then other tier1 bc? Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
Crystals:
-There should be an option to switch crystal type on whole rack, or the ability to instantly switch ammo has little practical use.
love to see that for all ships, but i believe ccp said something about more lag. |
Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 13:24:00 - [ 131]
CCP have already indicated the logic and rightness of Amarr balancing in their own previous dev blog of 2008.01.30, Amarr Oomph and Similar Words: Quote:
These are the issues that we've identified with Amarr:
- Some ships could need lovin'
- Cap usage on Energy Weapons may be too high in some cases
- Fitting requirements on some Energy Weapons need adjusting
- Base EM resistances on armor are very high
They arguably addressed both 1 and 4 on that list (though Omen is still pretty much a joke: add a turret, but no fitting, to a ship that already couldn't fit a standard loadout?!?). And there's been no word on the status of changing fitting for some energy weapons (much needed). Finally, most important of all, there's been no word on the cap usage of lasers and the utterly f'tarded cap usage "ship bonus" to Amarr vessels which, as so many have pointed out, is not a proper bonus at all - just a crutch to at least allow us to fire the weapons on our own ships. I do love the reverse psychology meme currently making it's way through the forums, though, that Amarr are now this 'uber' race. You'll find 95% of said claims are being made by Minnies, of course. Having us cap out if we active tank or fire our guns for more than 90 seconds is really helpful to their cause. The only thing changed in 2008 was the grossly unfair EM base armor amount. Nowhere near the monstrous change it's been made out to be, by the way, but it's funny how a change that merely brings Amarr into balance with the other damage types is absurdly portrayed as an OMGWTF boost. Besides, the armor (and shield) changes gave as big (or bigger) a stealth boost to the Minmatar! (Don't hear them complaining about that.) |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 13:39:00 - [ 132]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/08/2008 13:43:50(a) I have maximum cap skills. My Tempest with a T2 heavy cap booster cannot sustain a dual-rep tank in a 2x rep amount+1x rep speed setup. Did you complain about lacking cap for active tanking? (b) Cap out from firing? Fit a cap booster. Mega pilots do it all the time, and their blasters eat up roughly the same cap as lasers do on a geddon/etc. Yet you don't hear them whining about cap use. (c) If you complain about inability of active tanking in combination to ganking, allow me to laugh at you for failing to use buffer tanks like the 90% of the PvP battleship pilot population does. (d) With all the 'omg, cap use' and so on comments, a pulse BS still outdamages Minmatar battleships at any range. Being superior to another race at all ranges is what, balanced? With what? Originally by: Meridius Dex
Besides, the armor (and shield) changes gave as big (or bigger) a stealth boost to the Minmatar! (Don't hear them complaining about that.)
Because of what? EMP? 90% of Minmatar players would prefer having Fusion as their proper high damage ammo (while we have, in fact, none - we've got less base damage from EMP forcing us to use Hail for maximum DPS unlike other races which can use faction ammo), because a ammo doing less base damage then anything else while having a EM/Explosive/Kinetic damage split is uber  |
Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 13:45:00 - [ 133]
I won't reply to anyone q*eer enough to use an eye-rolling emoticon in their posts. Sorry, it's just my new forum policy. |
Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 15:01:00 - [ 134]
It is hard to get any reasonable input in this thread, people whine about the wrong things or just come with "stfu noob amarr = win" just because other races have seen some nerfs :P
The main issue i see is the cap-use bonus that only serve to increase range on pulses and tracking on beams, but to a very slight degree, whould be nice with some other bonuses here and there.
And maller\propecy needs some tweaks.
|
Elhina Novae
HAMMER -N- SICKEL
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 15:13:00 - [ 135]
The only way to balance Amarr (which is clearly broken) is too nerf Minmatar. Their Artillery is way overpowered and they use no cap!? |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.19 15:13:00 - [ 136]
You get cap use, we get rate of fire. Because your weapons are high cap, and our weapons are low DPS. It's a racial thing, it's never going to change. |
Elhina Novae
HAMMER -N- SICKEL
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 15:17:00 - [ 137]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
You get cap use, we get rate of fire. Because your weapons are high cap, and our weapons are low DPS. It's a racial thing, it's never going to change.
Nerf minmatar |
Katarlia Simov
Minmatar
Cowboys From Hell |
Posted - 2008.08.19 16:47:00 - [ 138]
Originally by: Dristra
It is hard to get any reasonable input in this thread, people whine about the wrong things or just come with "stfu noob amarr = win" just because other races have seen some nerfs :P
The main issue i see is the cap-use bonus that only serve to increase range on pulses and tracking on beams, but to a very slight degree, whould be nice with some other bonuses here and there.
And maller\propecy needs some tweaks.
Ah come on. The maller used to be damn good (god bless the dura-maller, may you rest in peace) and has had its day as the emphasis of combat moved much more towards gank. Its not bad, its really not. Just you would almost always pick something more versatile or that can hand out damage properlly. The proph isn't exactly bad, as such, either. I mean, ages back it was the second best IMHO bc (Pre-fix cyclone for pvp anyone ? Or a ferox ?) and its still kinda ok, just you'd much rather be flying the harbinger. And thats the fate of the other tier 1 bcs too really... Amarr aren't pure win, but they are FAR from bad nowerdays and sure they have a few stinkers, but on average you are better off picking an amarr ship than a lot of other things. Especially considering how quickly you can get past the hump of t1 cruisers into the creamy heights of bcs/bs/t2 you can't really moan. Think back to before the laser fix. Compare that to now. Comparitively, we have NO problems what so ever. |
Angelic Eviaran |
Posted - 2008.08.19 19:30:00 - [ 139]
Originally by: Peter Powers
i agree that the midslot layout is annyoing, however the retribution is a fine ship when used in gangs, so no need to "fix" it.
Sorry but after AF boost it will be a real friggin flaw if one race gets an AF that cant solo because of 1 mid slot. You can argue all day long about how its great in gangs but fact is that it doesnt do 300dps (wich would MAYBE be reason for it to have 1 mid). It needs to get a 2nd mid, no ifs nor buts. Originally by: Peter Powers
cause cap is for amarr ships more important? the augoror is the perfect ship to support high-dps ships or to support capitals
Wait, you say that people would fly cap transferring augoror more then a armor transfer augoror? Sorry but youre just plain wrong on this one. Originally by: Peter Powers
whine whine whine. how does a tank make it useless? hint: it doesnt, use nos and your tank will help to suck 'em dry.
Nos does not work. I know in theory it works but in practice it don't. Please stop theorycrafting. Originally by: Peter Powers
do what others do - fit cap mods. ever seen how much cap the damps of an arazu eat?
Range still not solved on pilgrim. ALL other force recons have same range as their combat recon counterparts. IT NEEDS TO GET FIXED. Originally by: Peter Powers
so basically you want ew ships to be assault frigattes with additional ew bonus?
the sentinel is a pretty nice ew frigatte, and with its 4 (!) drones its better then for example the gallentean, one - if you want to boost one, the gallentean one needs the most
Actually no. You should go check the stats for EAS and read more carefull what I wrote. EAS are the only ship hulls that have the same amount of shield, armor and hull as their t1 hull. All t2 ships get buffed up shield, armor and hull but EAS, wich are t2, don't. This has nothing to do with the t2 resists. What you are saying is why should pilgrim/curse have all the extra armor compared to an arbi? You want a HAC with ew? That is what you basically said. Originally by: Peter Powers
One of the finest bc i did ever fly, tough tank, quite a punch on dps. if you compare the prohpecy to the harbinger you could compare the ferox to the drake aswell.. or the brutix to the myrm. and in all cases you will find that the tier2 ships have advantages over the tier1 ones.
.. why make it better then other tier1 bc?
No, read what you liked to read. There is a reason to fly a ferox, brutix or a cyclone. Ferox for rail sniping (rail sniping with drake ftl), brutix for rail setups or cyclone for people with good shield tank skills but no armor tank skills. For an amarr pilot there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL to fly a prophecy over a harbinger. NO reason at all. THAT is the core problem. Now give proph either bigger drone bay or range bonus and you might solve that. |
Peter Powers
FinFleet
Raiden. |
Posted - 2008.08.19 19:51:00 - [ 140]
i was going to answer to most of your post till i found you saying the following about a ship that is nicknamed "blasterix": Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
brutix for rail setups
'nuff said Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
For an amarr pilot there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL to fly a prophecy over a harbinger. NO reason at all. THAT is the core problem.
cant resist to answer on that one since your talking about my beloved prophecy reason 1: cheaper reason 2: resistances reason 3: style (best looking ship in game) |
Angelic Eviaran |
Posted - 2008.08.19 20:10:00 - [ 141]
Edited by: Angelic Eviaran on 19/08/2008 20:13:23 Originally by: Peter Powers
i was going to answer to most of your post till i found you saying the following about a ship that is nicknamed "blasterix":
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
brutix for rail setups
'nuff said
Originally by: Angelic Eviaran
For an amarr pilot there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL to fly a prophecy over a harbinger. NO reason at all. THAT is the core problem.
cant resist to answer on that one since your talking about my beloved prophecy
reason 1: cheaper
reason 2: resistances
reason 3: style (best looking ship in game)
Wait, this noob is trying to lecture me? Quite funny. Here goes: If you are a gallente pilot and want to bring a bc to a fleet you'll fit rails and not blasters. With rails youll instantly reach targets instead of slowboating all over the place and doing ZERO damage. Rail brutix does more damage then rail myrm. NUFF SAID? There is no reason to fly harbinger at all: 1: You forgot to count the insurance. Fail. 2: Harbinger can field a 1600mm plate tank with single rep and much more dps at same time. In most situations that is ALOT better then a resist rep tank of a proph. You fail again. 3: Meh. Sorry to say, but you really need to l2p before coming here and trying to make others look like noobs when youre the noob. |
Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
|
Posted - 2008.08.19 23:05:00 - [ 142]
Originally by: Katarlia Simov
Originally by: Dristra
It is hard to get any reasonable input in this thread, people whine about the wrong things or just come with "stfu noob amarr = win" just because other races have seen some nerfs :P
The main issue i see is the cap-use bonus that only serve to increase range on pulses and tracking on beams, but to a very slight degree, whould be nice with some other bonuses here and there.
And maller\propecy needs some tweaks.
Ah come on. The maller used to be damn good (god bless the dura-maller, may you rest in peace) and has had its day as the emphasis of combat moved much more towards gank. Its not bad, its really not. Just you would almost always pick something more versatile or that can hand out damage properlly.
The proph isn't exactly bad, as such, either. I mean, ages back it was the second best IMHO bc (Pre-fix cyclone for pvp anyone ? Or a ferox ?) and its still kinda ok, just you'd much rather be flying the harbinger. And thats the fate of the other tier 1 bcs too really...
Amarr aren't pure win, but they are FAR from bad nowerdays and sure they have a few stinkers, but on average you are better off picking an amarr ship than a lot of other things. Especially considering how quickly you can get past the hump of t1 cruisers into the creamy heights of bcs/bs/t2 you can't really moan.
Think back to before the laser fix. Compare that to now. Comparitively, we have NO problems what so ever.
As i have said, amarr are not BAD atm, just average, with a few cool ships here and there... I actually propose to remove 20% cap use on lasers, and replace the cap use "bonus" with a plain cap bonus, this enables amarr ship to become a bit more flexible... Currently the maller is quite well off fitting autos rather than lasers (if you ignore tech 2 ammo, but then again scorch might be a bit power...) All i want is a change in the cap use bonus, don't take me wrong, i still want an arty\auto buff as much as the next guy, but im a avid amarr speaker, so nuff said... |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.19 23:13:00 - [ 143]
Amarr aren't average. They're nearly overpowered and the upcoming patch will confirm it.
And yes, I know. Large Energy Turret 5 finishes in 8 days. |
UGLYUGLY
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 00:55:00 - [ 144]
Amarr are not over powered. They just excel as a race where they where designed to. 1.Tank 2.Damage They don't do things fancy, hardly have anything in the way of utility on their ships. Just sit there be golden and give the enemy a hurting  |
Kazuma Saruwatari |
Posted - 2008.08.20 01:00:00 - [ 145]
@ OP: I'm seeing what you're trying to do there |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 01:48:00 - [ 146]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Amarr aren't average. They're nearly overpowered and the upcoming patch will confirm it.
And yes, I know. Large Energy Turret 5 finishes in 8 days.
If Amarr could get the usefulness of the other races weapon systems with level 4 or even level 3 skills I'd agree. However seeing as you won't get far with lasers as a viable pvp weapon until you hit T2 and max or nearly max support skills I'd say the ludicrous time invested to get that wtfpwnage is moar than fair and balanced.  |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.20 01:57:00 - [ 147]
You seem to forget that autocannons without barrage is failure and that artillery without t2 gun won't let you hit 150km.
Lasers are not the hardest weapon system to skill for, sorry. |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2008.08.20 02:03:00 - [ 148]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
You seem to forget that autocannons without barrage is failure and that artillery without t2 gun won't let you hit 150km.
Lasers are not the hardest weapon system to skill for, sorry.
Well thats simply because projectiles fail as a viable weapons system at low skill or even maxed at T2. So its not lasers high skill reqs fault as we at least get tp wtfpwn at max levels.  |
AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.20 02:09:00 - [ 149]
You win. |
Angelic Eviaran |
Posted - 2008.08.20 14:07:00 - [ 150]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Amarr aren't average. They're nearly overpowered and the upcoming patch will confirm it.
And yes, I know. Large Energy Turret 5 finishes in 8 days.
This thread isnt about claiming amarr are average. This thread is about fixing broken ships. Broken ships are broken no matter what race they belong to. Catfish? |
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