| Author |
Topic |
korrey
Amarr |
Posted - 2008.08.03 22:51:00 - [ 1]
During another thread, a few of us were debating whether the Harbinger (5% damage bonus) out-damages the Absolutiong (5% damage bonus and 5% ROF bonus). Most said the Harbinger had more DPS, so I'm just testing this out.
I'm using EFT (not sure if the DPS calculations are accurate, Quickfit could never be trusted). This is also assuming max skills.
Absolution:
6 Heavy Pulse Laser II's (Conflag)
3x Heatsink II's
5x Hobgoblin II's
= 796 DPS
Harbinger:
7 Heavy Pulse laser II's (Conflag)
3x Heatsink II's
5x Hammerhead II's
= 768 DPS
Now again, I'm not sure how correct the DPS calculator on EFT is, but logically I don't see how the Harbinger can do more DPS than the absolution. The only suggestion I can toss out there, is the Absolution generally doesn't have a 3 HS setup. Other than that, I don't think the Harb beats the Abso DPS wise.
(Mathematics welcome, if you know something I don't please share it). I'd like to figure this out once and for all. |
Glennus
Amarr
Flight of the Phoenix |
Posted - 2008.08.03 22:59:00 - [ 2]
the point is a absolution doesn't fit 3 HS only two it needs to other slots for its tank. so the harbi does more damage but the abso tanks ten times better. |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2008.08.03 23:10:00 - [ 3]
It's quite possible I was mistaken, and the Abso does indeed do more total DPS at lvl V, but as stated, not that many people have CS V trained up. |
korrey
Amarr |
Posted - 2008.08.03 23:15:00 - [ 4]
Well that is a good point, most likely a 3 Heatsink II Absolution fit is out of the question. |
Glennus
Amarr
Flight of the Phoenix |
Posted - 2008.08.03 23:19:00 - [ 5]
 Originally by: korrey
Well that is a good point, most likely a 3 Heatsink II Absolution fit is out of the question.
it is trust me i fly these things and you want that tank. (and it is great). |
Gunner Chick |
Posted - 2008.08.03 23:22:00 - [ 6]
Edited by: Gunner Chick on 03/08/2008 23:22:08
i think its alot smarter to fit moderate heat sinks at maxed skills on gunnery and command ship at this point and go for a little more survivability and let the skills make up for some dps. getting around 650 dps with drones(although i prefer ec-300 hornets to hobgoblins) is plenty tbfh. i wouldnt want to go more than 2 heat sinks personally.. |
korrey
Amarr |
Posted - 2008.08.03 23:25:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: Glennus
Originally by: korrey
Well that is a good point, most likely a 3 Heatsink II Absolution fit is out of the question.
it is trust me i fly these things and you want that tank. (and it is great).
Although...if you have the test server I'd like to 1 v 1 you sometime Abso to Abso, just to see. I'm going to go test out some 3 HS setups on SISI... |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2008.08.03 23:57:00 - [ 8]
3x HS fit would be dual MAR, triple HS, dual EANM, with therm resist rig and aux nano pump, but tbh, when flying a 140M uninsurable ship, might as well fit a DCU on it, no? |
Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 05:54:00 - [ 9]
Edited by: Riho on 04/08/2008 05:56:05 Originally by: Glennus
the point is a absolution doesn't fit 3 HS only two it needs to other slots for its tank. so the harbi does more damage but the abso tanks ten times better.
my abso does fit 3 hs 1600mm, ean, thermic passive, dcu, 3x hs :D EDIT: iv been testing this for a bit and if i get LG slaves it becomes better than dual rep. especially in small gang stuff. i dont get my tank broken in 10 sec if 2 BS start shooting me and i can be RRd quite well :) |
Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.04 06:22:00 - [ 10]
Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 04/08/2008 06:22:39
While Abso is not often fitted with 3xHS, Harb with HPs and 3xHS is not all that common either(not to mention it's paper thin).
In general, one would assume that Harb outdamages Abso at CS IV, vice versa at CS V. |
Dahak2150
Arm of Orion |
Posted - 2008.08.04 07:33:00 - [ 11]
Set up similarly, the Harbinger will always do more damage unless one has CS V. The seventh gun and double sized drones are superior unless one gets that last 11.6% damage.
For those of you without CS V, all is not lost. Yes the Absolution does a bit less damage, but even throwing everything you can into damage, the Absolution can still be set up to have only 4% less EHP than a Harbinger, and the ability to run dual MAR IIs, which are capable of making up the difference in EHP in only one cycle. If you survive long enough for the reppers to cycle even just once, you've already lived longer than you would have in the Harbinger.
Really a matter of taste (and cash). Harbinger is cheaper, does a bit more damage when setup like a miniature 'Geddon, and plated still has about the same maneuverability as an unplated Absolution. I personally prefer the Harbinger for the cheap price and aesthetics. Prophecy hull has always been a bit ugly. |
Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises |
Posted - 2008.08.04 07:47:00 - [ 12]
You know the economy is screwy when the idea of a cost/damage ratio is not brought up at all. 140Mil uninsurable ship vs. a 40mil 100% insurable ship... and you are comparing DPS? You can throw 3 harbys at them for the cost of one Abso while still having the same chances of downing a target. I say the same chances because if you are going to start bringing tank into this discussion then it leaves the OP's intended purpose. An Isk-per-Damage(-per-Second) figure would be an interesting number, but not at 3am.  |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam |
Posted - 2008.08.04 07:57:00 - [ 13]
Only reason to use an Abso is for the tank, but then you can put a pretty big buffy on a Harby anyway  Harbinger is just so much more versatile IMO. Relatively agile, fits MWD with ease and deals a scary amount of damage with a HP setup. You don't even need to rig it; tis the best overall Battlecruiser IMO (perhaps with the exception of a HAMDrake) |
Daftex Muleson
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.08.04 08:14:00 - [ 14]
Wow...never looked at the Absolution b4 in EFT. You can get a truly insane tank on it! Must be one of the best armour tankers out there in terms of resists isn't it? I mean, all 4 resists at 90% or just under!!! Bonkers  |
Emperor Ryan
Amarr
The Illuminatii
Mildly Intoxicated |
Posted - 2008.08.04 08:23:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Glennus
Originally by: korrey
Well that is a good point, most likely a 3 Heatsink II Absolution fit is out of the question.
it is trust me i fly these things and you want that tank. (and it is great).
Yes, Do Trust him he knows what he's talking about ^^ |
adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak |
Posted - 2008.08.04 11:25:00 - [ 16]
Edited by: adriaans on 04/08/2008 11:27:20
on an abso due to it's price you generally want that tank.
while I've never tried it i think a HG slave set, + 1600mm plate + resist + heat sinks + trimarks looks good on paper, now i 'only' need 2 bill more for the HG set :P
tbh though, the abso could maybe use a 50m3 drone bay....*wishes*
edit: i'll be 'one of the few who has command ships 5 trained' mentioned above, and you really want that on the abso....dual damage bonus after all...:D
|
Yukisa |
Posted - 2008.08.04 11:35:00 - [ 17]
How much can a dual MAR absolution tank? I've tried some setups in EFT and can only get around ~550dps omni tank. This relies on a cap booster too.
Now surely given that its slow, 3 mid limited nature.. it just does not seem cost effective to use over a harb for dps, or plated geddon, aba or even apoc for dps/tank. Besides the command links..
What's the general fitting on it, especially the mids? |
Tassi
Amarr
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
R.A.G.E |
Posted - 2008.08.04 11:59:00 - [ 18]
flying an abso without CS V is dumb.
Absolution is superior to the harbinger in very small gang circumstances where you simply get shot at. Astarte + Absolution duo team is really something that can put the hurt on people. |
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