| Author |
Topic |
Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.02 17:38:00 - [ 121]
 Originally by: Joss Sparq
"lol" 
I wholeheartedly endorse, support and give funding to this opinion and movement. |
Zephyr Rengate
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 17:41:00 - [ 122]
Edited by: Zephyr Rengate on 02/08/2008 17:41:52
I thought Jade was an ok poster and CSM guy, but this thread beats me.
I do agree with that the CSM is overall just a PR stunt. It worked well with the people outside of EvE, NY times. But why I ask did only 11% of the EvE population vote? Because they saw it as worthless. If it was me at CCP I would have sc****d or re-done the elections to make sure they recieved a larger election turnout to make it show that overall the views of the EvE population. But no this did not happen because CCP knows they dont need the views of the larger population put forward in the current CSM. |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam |
Posted - 2008.08.02 17:58:00 - [ 123]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Once again I am going to point out that the nano-balance changes have absolutely nothing to do with forum whiners and as proof I offer 8+ months of live dev blogs and developer interviews stating that speed balance was on their agenda.
Unfortunately, instead of bringing up issues from the playerbase, the CSM candidates are ALL working towards their own selfish goals and not looking for the wealth and well-being of the entire EVE community. So the CSM fails like most poorly run government organizations in which they are not really held accountable to their constituents.
For example, has any CSM member brought ideas to different forums/websites and ask opinions of many players in game? No, CSM members instead put in the least amount of effort and simply post on Assembly Hall and ask their friends ingame and think that is enough research into an issue. Hell, most CSM members don't even post/read the forums and when they do, post short one-liners in which you can actually see how inept they are. CSM Bane posted a decent thread on AH lately, but that is the exception, not the rule sadly.
You're like, the only forumalt that makes sense anymoar  Some of the more vocal CSM members don't seem to represent the players, but their alliance and preferred playstyle which they're trying to push down everyone's throats.  ...whereas the ones who prefer a more welcoming, considerate approach (as opposed to: "This is my agenda and nothing you say is going to change it") tend to just get ignored. IMO CCP should balance their own game based on their own research (as they seem to be doing). CSM was more a popularity contest than anything |
Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory |
Posted - 2008.08.02 17:59:00 - [ 124]
Frankly I'm not sure what everyone's problem with the whole CSM thing is. From what I understood, they're there to bring issues to the attention of ccp, not vote on particular balance changes. Balancing is the job of the guys who work for ccp doing the balancing, largely because there is no (or much less) conflict of interest with them.
Furthermore, anyone who isn't a newbie knows that CCP takes -ages- to implement -any- change at all, and the CSM has only been around for a short time, so it might be prudent to wait a little bit before whining and drawing conclusions about the end result.
|
J Kunjeh
Gallente |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:09:00 - [ 125]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
It's a waste of time because PLAYERS SUCK AT GAME DESIGN.
Every single one of us, myself included. We are all far too biased in our views to ever hope to achieve anything close to balanced.
Players should be observed and not listened to if you are after a balanced game.
Speak for yourself... Also, I would add that the CSM isn't intended to design anything; they're a communication liaison between the player base and CCP which is intended to streamline the issues players are having and the suggestions they come up with. That's it. |
Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:20:00 - [ 126]
It's from players believing they should be the deciding factor in what changes are implemented. You can see that just be looking at how the Assembly hall is used, with various players (not even CSM's) bringing up 'votes' and 'issues'. Hell, they even allowed me to post in there.
So we have a group of the playerbase that wants that authority to make the game as they see fit, and they think that the CSM's now have that authority. Which is where all the jealous hatred and rampaging comes along.
When, in all honesty, CSM's are just the players that have a 'bat phone' to developers ears concerning game direction and some breaking bugs. If they WERE the one's voting on whether a change is made or not, or whether a rework is done or not, it would be the quickest step to downfall a game producer has seen since SOE and SWG. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:25:00 - [ 127]
Well, really. Where CSM has some degree of influence, that is how CCP prioritize their projects. By CSM bringing forward the players concerns, CCP knows what to focus on to make people happy.
Call that a PR stunt or whatever you want. I think that any direct feedback and conversation with the devs(Which is limited to one-way communication on the forum, mainly), it's largely beneficial.
CSM has no absolute influence. It should. Devs, in many cases, knows better. Of course, we can provide feedback and input on their ideas. But players should have no absolute influence. Not even elected players. CSM has indirect influence. CCP can do whatever they want with out feedback and the things we talk to them about. And I hope they take onboard our feedback, which they seem to do. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:27:00 - [ 128]
Originally by: new york times
Hilmar Petursson, CCP’s chief executive, said in a telephone interview. “Eve Online is not a computer game. It is an emerging nation, and we have to address it like a nation being accused of corruption...
where you announce your candidacy, and if you win the election, they come here to Iceland, and they can look at every nook and cranny and get to see that we are here to run this company on a professional basis
|
Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:32:00 - [ 129]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: new york times
Hilmar Petursson, CCP’s chief executive, said in a telephone interview. “Eve Online is not a computer game. It is an emerging nation, and we have to address it like a nation being accused of corruption...
where you announce your candidacy, and if you win the election, they come here to Iceland, and they can look at every nook and cranny and get to see that we are here to run this company on a professional basis
Yup, I'm with you on this one mate. |
isdisco3
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:40:00 - [ 130]
Verone is representing his own viewpoint of the CSM, which is shared by a large portion of the playerbase. While I'm not as militantly anti-CSM, I do think that to this point it haven't yet earned my trust as a legitimate or worthwhile organization simply because it hasn't done much. I have a hard time trusting CCP would actually let the organization have 'full access' to their corporate goings-on, and I have a harder time still believing said organization would be able to adequately examine the goings-on (assuming their admission) because of all the squabbling and partisan shenanigans that go on constantly.
The factionalism predicted by Verone before the elections seems increasingly to be the reality, with each narrow shard caring solely about its own interests. The CSM has yet to do enough to warrant my trust or optimism in its capabilities.
To conclude, and in the interest of fairness, I am ex-veto and I like Verone. I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive and don't really help things, but I do think that Jade as an "elected official" (that 11% went pretty overwhelmingly for him) needs to learn PR and ignore such insults / abuses.
How can I be expected to support the CSM when its chair more than willingly enters in to a name-calling fest on the forums? I know its heresy to make RL to eve comparisons, but have you ever seen your President / Prime Minister get into a shouting match with a heckler? |
Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:45:00 - [ 131]
Originally by: isdisco3
....I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive....
I will point out here that the things I've said aren't against Jade, they're against the manner in which he is leading the CSM. While I'm taking a shot at the way the CSM is being lead, I'm not taking a shot at him unless it's in self defense for the personal attacks being thrown at myself in response to my opinions. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:45:00 - [ 132]
Hai Disco  . Originally by: isdisco3
How can I be expected to support the CSM when its chair more than willingly enters in to a name-calling fest on the forums? I know its heresy to make RL to eve comparisons, but have you ever seen your President / Prime Minister get into a shouting match with a heckler?
I agree. You can't. And it has been pointed out so many times. It's quite tragic. But I think it's important to point out, just because he is the chairman, it doesn't mean he represent the CSM as a whole. |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:55:00 - [ 133]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Hai Disco .
Originally by: isdisco3
How can I be expected to support the CSM when its chair more than willingly enters in to a name-calling fest on the forums? I know its heresy to make RL to eve comparisons, but have you ever seen your President / Prime Minister get into a shouting match with a  heckler?
I agree. You can't.
And it has been pointed out so many times. It's quite tragic. But I think it's important to point out, just because he is the chairman, it doesn't m
ean he represent the CSM as a whole.
It should be noted however, that CSM members are Human, and are not paid enough to have to maintain some sort of Mother Teresa saintliness. Most are simply slightly naive individuals who craved closer contact with ccp, wanted to make beer jokes with wrangler on the friday and simper up to Eris on the saturday. They thought they would get a free holiday, maybe a ccp mug and bumbag (for sale 45.99 in the ccp online shop - reserve yours today) and come back home to tick a few boxes and fill in the paperwork. Cunningly though, CCP turned them into a massive scapegoat. For the cost of a couple of plane tickets, they got the ultimate answer CCP NERF THIS... speak to the CSM they are your elected gobetween CCP FIX THIS... speak to the CSM they are your elected gobetween No complaint about in game mechanics can now be leveled at CCP - As we have a player go between we should be speaking to. ITs genius really, the CSM turned from a potentially awkward "corruption checking squad" (as CCP told the new york times it would be) to a nice Buffer Scapegoat between CCP and the militant playerbase. SKUNK |
Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative |
Posted - 2008.08.02 18:58:00 - [ 134]
Originally by: Le Skunk
"Truth"
by
SKUNK
Shame when you look at it that way, but it makes so much sense. So you've got a bunch of players blaming you for every bad thing happening? Why not let them vote for an imaginary office, then they can spend their time blaming other players? |
Jinx Quin |
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:09:00 - [ 135]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
It means that I think you're probably a giant internet poseur who will shrivel up and hide in dark corners rather than come and share "your opinions" face to face in a bar Rule. :~
For the record, I'd like to state that RuleoftheBone is one of the scariest internet spaceship pilots I've ever met. |
Jinx Denton
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:11:00 - [ 136]
Also, to the CSM: Make ccp fix the forums so my default posting character stops jumping all over the place. |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party |
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:13:00 - [ 137]
Originally by: Jinx Denton
Also, to the CSM: Make ccp fix the forums so my default posting character stops jumping all over the place.
We already whined about the forums. |
Jinx Denton
Minmatar
Veto.
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:18:00 - [ 138]
|
Doc Fury
Caldari |
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:21:00 - [ 139]
Originally by: Le Skunk
ITs genius really, the CSM turned from a potentially awkward "corruption checking squad" (as CCP told the new york times it would be) to a nice Buffer Scapegoat between CCP and the militant playerbase.
Indeed! It will be very interesting to see if the CSM lasts long enough for another election to occur and if so, how many of the current representatives will be that interested in running for another term. |
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.02 19:58:00 - [ 140]
All CSM did was add more politics to an already emotionally charged game for some people. I don't really think we needed that, and this thread just seems to prove that to me.  |
Doya Lickalotapum |
Posted - 2008.08.02 20:42:00 - [ 141]
It's a freaking game. Chill out.
Doya |
Steiner
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.02 20:45:00 - [ 142]
As a long standing fan of Jade I dig every thread that Jade makes a fool of her self.  |
Tempus Iskander
Gallente
Les Enfants de Gaia
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 21:01:00 - [ 143]
Originally by: isdisco3
To conclude, and in the interest of fairness, I am ex-veto and I like Verone. I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive and don't really help things, but I do think that Jade as an "elected official" (that 11% went pretty overwhelmingly for him) needs to learn PR and ignore such insults / abuses.
Dude Verone comes across as a bitter old vet complaining he didn't get elected he's like goumindong really. You gotta expect the rough with the smooth if you get to attacking someone on teh forums. |
Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2008.08.02 21:22:00 - [ 144]
Originally by: Tempus Iskander
Originally by: isdisco3
To conclude, and in the interest of fairness, I am ex-veto and I like Verone. I do think his rants against Jade are not constructive and don't really help things, but I do think that Jade as an "elected official" (that 11% went pretty overwhelmingly for him) needs to learn PR and ignore such insults / abuses.
Dude Verone comes across as a bitter old vet complaining he didn't get elected he's like goumindong really. You gotta expect the rough with the smooth if you get to attacking someone on teh forums.
lol, I wasn't even in the running when the elections came around.... I pulled out VOLUNTARILY, off my own back after realising how utterly pointless the CSM would be. Try again. Also, post with your main. |
Victor Valka
Caldari
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost |
Posted - 2008.08.02 21:37:00 - [ 145]
Thread delivers. LOLs are being had by onlookers.  |
Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative |
Posted - 2008.08.02 21:44:00 - [ 146]
I pulled out 'voluntarily' too, but she still got pregnant. It must be the CSM's fault. |
Shaol Amathera |
Posted - 2008.08.02 22:20:00 - [ 147]
I see a lot of extremely unprofessional and childish smack-talk coming from people who are supposed to be representatives of the playerbase to CCP. I expected better. |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
|
Posted - 2008.08.02 22:25:00 - [ 148]
Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 02/08/2008 22:30:08 Originally by: Jinx Quin
Originally by: Jade Constantine
It means that I think you're probably a giant internet poseur who will shrivel up and hide in dark corners rather than come and share "your opinions" face to face in a bar Rule. :~
For the record, I'd like to state that RuleoftheBone is one of the scariest internet spaceship pilots I've ever met.
Awwww shucks whoever you are  . No ransom discount though . **EDIT**New personal shipname "Jade's Lithotomy" |
Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative |
Posted - 2008.08.02 22:26:00 - [ 149]
Originally by: Shaol Amathera
I see a lot of extremely unprofessional and childish smack-talk coming from people who are supposed to be representatives of the playerbase to CCP. I expected better.
Seems to me that our 'playerbase' is represented about right. |
Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge |
Posted - 2008.08.02 22:48:00 - [ 150]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Funny how thats generally the feedback we get from ex-veto. Seriously Verone, you are embarrassing yourself now. Presenting yourself as some kind of a paragon of virtue in an internet debate is laughable. You've clearly been bored and annoyed with Eve online for a while now and the cynical veteran syndrome is making you act poorly. I have no idea why you decided to pull out of the CSM elections but your bitterness over that affair is leaking into all your public discussions and its been noted by many people.
I have no need to defend myself to you of all people. I'd advise you to walk away while you still have a little dignity.
Post this proof that you have, because as Lavista has said, he's come across none of what you speak of. Otherwise you look as nothing more than trying to point your finger to other people in a sad attempt to deflect any negative attention away from your self. It's an old and pathetic tactic that is reserved for last when there is nothing else left. And I have no stake in this discussion on either side, nor do I want a part in CSM discussions in general (p.s: I don't know Verone, and I don't know you either Jade). I am just here to point out the massive hypocrisy that you have been putting forth in this thread. You do NOT inspire confidence from your attitude, and I find it a shame there isn't such a thing as recall elections for CSM. |
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