Posted - 2008.07.29 08:35:00 - [3]

 

This idea is crap.

Posted - 2008.07.29 08:58:00 - [5]

 

Originally by: Shadowsword

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Edited by: Shadowsword on 29/07/2008 08:44:03
The result of this idea on the long run is a 0.0 even more empty that it is right now. That won't give you any more targets to shoot at. No support from me.

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the number of targets is not the point, but the issue that those potential targets are not reachable currently. They can just **** off if they have the brain to warp out. Is that complitely alright with you? Do you think they earned the intel?

Posted - 2008.07.29 09:12:00 - [7]

 

The only reason you know that the current ship you are about to scan down is actually a player is because you see him/them in local too. Have you earned that intel? If local was not up, you might see 1000 ravens, all with different players name, oh, and a Force Shield if you have that on your scanner. So you have to move around, yes, hit, omfg, new Force Field.

By jumping in to a system, you get free intel on how many ships there are possibly ratting there, and therefore can exclude sertain ships/areas where ships are and find him easier. You get the same, if not more intel by local.

Scanning would be a nightmare simply because a simple sollution for them to counter your no local plan is to drop 200 frigs in space, or shuttles even, next to every celestial in space. Good luck finding anything.

Besides, people that doesn't watch local you catch anyway, we do it all the time. There is a few really smart and quick reacting characters out there, and those you will never catch, as they rat in such a way that even if you pop up right next to them they get away.

Posted - 2008.07.29 09:42:00 - [9]

 

Originally by: Halsoy

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The only reason you know that the current ship you are about to scan down is actually a player is because you see him/them in local too. Have you earned that intel? If local was not up, you might see 1000 ravens, all with different players name, oh, and a Force Shield if you have that on your scanner. So you have to move around, yes, hit, omfg, new Force Field.

By jumping in to a system, you get free intel on how many ships there are possibly ratting there, and therefore can exclude sertain ships/areas where ships are and find him easier. You get the same, if not more intel by local.

Scanning would be a nightmare simply because a simple sollution for them to counter your no local plan is to drop 200 frigs in space, or shuttles even, next to every celestial in space. Good luck finding anything.

Besides, people that doesn't watch local you catch anyway, we do it all the time. There is a few really smart and quick reacting characters out there, and those you will never catch, as they rat in such a way that even if you pop up right next to them they get away.

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Well, it takes skills to scan for ships in belts or planets. What you say about using ejected ships as beacons is already being used by many and the only way you can know wether its a killable target, or just a ship at pos, is to scan the directions to know if its at belts or not. This tactic can be already used, and many ratting alliance have set their posses up with assload of ships to make the scanning more difficult, but your scanning skills matter to make sure if they are at the pos or not.. not the count in local. The local count helps to make logical assumptions about present ships, but as I said it would be hard for the PVErs and PVPrs both to map the situation of each solar system with out local, so I would concider it a fair nerf.

If you are roaming same systems all over again you would get to know which of the ships in scanner are just beacons and which not. At least from my experiences if I run the same route for 3rd time, I already know most of the systems POS ships and I don't have to waiste my time trying to figure out if they are piloted or not. It takes time to get know new places, the habits of the people in the new places, and alot of skill in scanning. I have been practising scanning for over an year now, and I do get the results of a ratting battleship within 10-15 seconds most of the time. Then add the time it takes to warp to the target and all possible lag, the final time it takes to arrive to your target is somewhere around 20 seconds minimum up to 45seconds. In this time every battleship can warp out, and those who didn't look at local will do it next time.

Posted - 2008.07.29 13:17:00 - [11]

 

Edited by: Ruze on 29/07/2008 13:17:49
Local as an intel tool is flawed. It's too easy, it's too simplified, it's perfect and cannot be countered, and it ruins small unit warfare.

Fights happen at gatecamps or stationcamps, because there is no other way to come upon a target, without being exceptionally lucky.

Like every other point of the game, gathering intel on who is in the system around you should be an active task. Local and map intelligence, though, is free and simply too powerful.

I know the arguments: it'll ruin the game. But that isn't true, and even deep down, you know it. It'll take away a cruicial tool that players are exploiting, true, but even I won't agree with removing the tool and not giving players some way to replace it.

A local scanner with ping is perfectly useful. Maybe powerful enough to scan your grid. That way, someone can get in system and warp to you, and you don't have a couple minutes headstart in warping to your safespot or throwing the cloak.

I fully support this. Local is an exploit that we have been required to use for far too long. I think it's time CCP fixed it.

Posted - 2008.07.29 13:23:00 - [13]

 

oh jesus, here we go again.

Posted - 2008.07.29 13:45:00 - [15]

 

Edited by: Blind Molechild on 29/07/2008 13:48:00

Originally by: Halsoy

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The only reason you know that the current ship you are about to scan down is actually a player is because you see him/them in local too. Have you earned that intel? If local was not up, you might see 1000 ravens, all with different players name, oh, and a Force Shield if you have that on your scanner. So you have to move around, yes, hit, omfg, new Force Field.

By jumping in to a system, you get free intel on how many ships there are possibly ratting there, and therefore can exclude sertain ships/areas where ships are and find him easier. You get the same, if not more intel by local.

Scanning would be a nightmare simply because a simple sollution for them to counter your no local plan is to drop 200 frigs in space, or shuttles even, next to every celestial in space. Good luck finding anything.

Besides, people that doesn't watch local you catch anyway, we do it all the time. There is a few really smart and quick reacting characters out there, and those you will never catch, as they rat in such a way that even if you pop up right next to them they get away.

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you know theres something called probes, duh. you can easily see if ships are stashed in a pos. even better drop 100 cruisers in system, i'll probe them out in one scan, and just collect & sell. scanning / probing system would need some tweaks tho.

Posted - 2008.07.29 14:08:00 - [17]

 

needs sorting, more so now speed ships that are about warping quick are going down the tube!

scan results = ONLY SHIPS WITH PODS IN (x)

it will require you to actually do some work when ratting/mining tbh. If the are 2 of you, one can keep an eye on the gates while the other rats. Hey, might even require the ratters to 'defend themselves'. people will work together more, ratting in teams etc...

anyway, what its worth.... i am for the idea.

However think it should be a constilation channel. if you have a cycle of 10mins, then it makes sense the gates are recording your movements knowing you have entered and left the area recently. as well as highlighting your actually in the system due to jumping through the gate.

then you could introduce hacking gates.... knowing your hostile has recently left, you can hack gate intel to know if he left via that gate or not.

Posted - 2008.07.29 15:42:00 - [19]

 

Originally by: Lacco

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Originally by: Shadowsword

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Edited by: Shadowsword on 29/07/2008 08:44:03
The result of this idea on the long run is a 0.0 even more empty that it is right now. That won't give you any more targets to shoot at. No support from me.

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the number of targets is not the point, but the issue that those potential targets are not reachable currently. They can just **** off if they have the brain to warp out. Is that complitely alright with you? Do you think they earned the intel?

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Causing an exodus form 0.0 to empire may not be your goal, but that's what will happen with local gone.

Earning the intel isn't what matter, tought you might say paying attention to local is earning that intel. What matter is what for a ratter, refreshing the scanner every 2 seconds is for too tedious to be viable.

I'm all for nerfing macro-farmers, but it must be done by affecting their cloaks, the delog timer, or maybe the align time. Not local. You can remove local as an intel tool when it's replaced by a passive, reliable proximity intel tool.

Posted - 2008.08.01 11:12:00 - [21]

 

Pirate ganker types have been moaning about local for years. Its been a BAD idea the whole time. Give it up already.

Posted - 2008.08.01 12:25:00 - [23]

 

Local = Immediate Channel (Broken)

Local = Recent Speakers Channel (Fixed)

Posted - 2008.08.01 12:44:00 - [25]

 

Up for this, as always.

Posted - 2008.08.01 17:39:00 - [27]

 

well your idea wouldnt work for 00 space anyway, because dont they have a system scanner in some pos's in alliance space?


that would put the alliance at an advantage, while putting the curious explorer at a diadvantage

Posted - 2008.08.04 02:36:00 - [29]

 

I agree with the op. 0.0 cloaking ravens are the scourge of eve, they can rat all day with next to 0 risk. local in 0.0 should be removed at all times unless you are next to a jump gate. After all jump gates should know how many people are in system and who they are.