| Author |
Topic |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 04:38:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Bellum Eternus on 25/11/2008 07:57:06
Update:
After quite a bit of work done by the player community by the looks of things on the test server at the moment (as of 13 October 2008) the devs are going to simply ignore any and all issues related to blasters and just let them be collateral damage from the speed changes. GG CCP.
My prediction: blasters get ruined and stay that way for a year or more before getting fixed. Hell, the devs didn't even *touch* on the subject in the live dev blog.
I sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but in light of CCP's past track record I don't think that I will be.
Update 25 Nov 2008:
All the issues that I said would happen have happened, in spades. Not only are blasters generally crap on TQ now, but solo/small gang PVP has taken a huge turn for the worse with the web nerf. I have yet to find a single player that has said 'wow, I really like this web nerf.'
I've completely stopped using the Hype, as well as the Thorax, Deimos and Brutix. I've used the Astarte and Megathron a couple of times, but this is rare. I've had to resort to the Kronos almost exclusively.
So far all of my 'predictions' have come true to the letter. My latest prediction: CCP ignores all the PVP player's threads and continues on with their campaign to ruin solo/small gang PVP. |
Titan Pilot
Amarr
Imperial Academy |
Posted - 2008.07.29 04:52:00 - [ 2]
A couple of points of mention 1. 1100 to 800 m/s is hardly a nerf. Big whoopie do. Your slow ass BS is a slow ass BS... 2. Blaster ships have always had tracking problems. Tracking links, tracking computers are your friends...shesh, large guns, 5k range, what did you expect? 3. Fitting cap injectors are common in many setups. If it means fitting one on your Deimos so you can use it, then I guess you should fit one  4. Congratulations on telling CCP that HAMs are overpowered. Enjoy your HAM Cerb until the next patch  |
Kirex
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.07.29 04:59:00 - [ 3]
|
Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc |
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:08:00 - [ 4]
Edited by: Mika Meroko on 29/07/2008 05:08:26 Originally by: Titan Pilot
A couple of points of mention
1. 1100 to 800 m/s is hardly a nerf. Big whoopie do. Your slow ass BS is a slow ass BS...
2. Blaster ships have always had tracking problems. Tracking links, tracking computers are your friends...shesh, large guns, 5k range, what did you expect?
3. Fitting cap injectors are common in many setups. If it means fitting one on your Deimos so you can use it, then I guess you should fit one
4. Congratulations on telling CCP that HAMs are overpowered. Enjoy your HAM Cerb until the next patch
looked at it myself, 1. the acceleration time from 0 to 800 is twice as long as before, not just top speed. thats a HUGE difference... go ahead, go log on to SISI and have a feel for it. turn the thing on a BS and see how long it takes to close in on your target... =P 2. errrr... I have no clue what you are talking about, never had that problem (but I have tracking computer always...) and no, the 5km range gun IS the issue when combined with the speed nerf.... you can not get into range in against any pvp fitted opponent to do dmg... in fact, any decent/competent pilot WILL kite your Blasterboat and shred it with something that has a longer range =P ... effectively, blasterboats will only work if you got a covet op drop a warp to zero right on target..(that or the target is being bumped by something) 3. /me shrugs, cap injectors goes into any pvp ship I guess... 4. thats not news =P |
Markas Crais
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:13:00 - [ 5]
I noticed a lot of this too. Here's what I originally posted:
"Okay here's what I'm noticing in regards to the MWD + Web nerf + Scram change. Nothing to do with the nano change.
It looks like any ship that uses close range turrets NEEDS to have a Scram fitted instead of a Warp Disruptor. Why? With the web nerf from 90% to 60% I'm noticing a lot of smaller ships are able to orbit within that 9km range and deactivate your MWD. Since most smaller ships can't/don't fit webs, this change with scrams effectively slows down any target larger than it by not allowing the use of a MWD. So if you want to try to get back to a gate, you're going to have to try and weather the damage or fit an AB, however ABs still are much too slow on a BS (example, I go 123 m/s on one of my Mega setups, with AB I go 327 m/s). So essentially this new scram mechanic is acting like another web by not allowing you any maneuverability.
Also in regards to the scram. This is a turret nerf as I've noticed most small ships can still orbit faster than your turrets can track, even while they're webbed. Coupled with a tracking disruptor this ship is basically immune to most blaster turrets (still testing). So it looks like CCP just swapped missiles not hitting faster targets for turrets not hitting faster targets. An example of this is a Hawk can fit 1 scram, 1 web, 1 MWD and while being webbed by my deimos it's still orbiting somewhere in the 1000+m/s range at 8km. My guns can track for the most part, just barely, but that's without a tracking disruptor on me. And if you don't have any Null ammo you're completely screwed since it can get out of your range pretty fast. The only saving grace I saw was that I could still use my Warrior IIs to kill the target, but other than that my HAC was completely uselss without a Warp Scrambler to shut off the other ship's MWD and slow it down enough to really do something.
Anyways, this is just something I've noticed. With the whole Warp Scram change, it's basically making Warp Disruptors useless for close range ships, or most ships in general. I say this because let's say you warp 20km from your target. Well, your target can still MWD off, get out of range from your point, and warp off. It's much harder to chase them down using a MWD that's only giving 500% boost across the board per module, and if you're using an AB then you can forget about it. So let's say you're using a MWD with Disruptor and they have a Scram. Well they can MWD in range, use their Scram, deactivate your MWD and now your Disruptor is just a wasted slot, you should have fitted a Scram to turn off their MWD because your web isn't effective enough. But if you're using a Scram then you better hope you warp in range to get a point otherwise they can just run away as well.
So maybe Disruptors aren't the ones really becoming useless, maybe it's the webs huh? Warp 20km or so, point, MWD to use your Scram, that's 3 points on the target, AND they can't MWD out of range.
EDIT: The way I see it, this change to MWDs, Scrams, and Webs is nerfing effective ganking especially in larger ships."
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:16:00 - [ 6]
|
Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus |
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:23:00 - [ 7]
Ok, so the 1 vs many era for blasterships is over. It made for good movies now it dont work. But in actual pvp on the actual TQ server things are different. Any target your fc calles primay is going to have 4 scrams, 10 webs and 14 disruptors on him. He will be doing about 4 m/s then you get there and beat him to death. |
Markas Crais
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:26:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Ok, so the 1 vs many era for blasterships is over. It made for good movies now it dont work. But in actual pvp on the actual TQ server things are different. Any target your fc calles primay is going to have 4 scrams, 10 webs and 14 disruptors on him. He will be doing about 4 m/s then you get there and beat him to death.
That's if we're talking large fights though. If you look at it on a smaller scale it's a problem. |
Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus |
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:35:00 - [ 9]
Small scale I see 5 vs 5. Good number? Youre in demios and your buddies are in arazu, cerb, falcon and stiletto. FC calls a muninn. Muninn goes say 260 m/s without mwd. Your arazu makes sure of that. Then your stiletto swoops in and apply a single t2 web, thats -60% = 156 m/s. Your demios is 20 km from target and starts mwd. Between acceleration time and top speed youre at the muninn in say 7 seconds. Then blast away with 250 damage per gun per 2 seconds. Unfortunalty they also have a stiletto and arazu. The funny thing is, they cant lock you because your falcon is sitting at 180km jamming them. by the time you reach the muninn he might have a web of course but that will only make him go like 10 m/s faster then you, and you can push in a boost from the mwd from time to time. Dont forget, fitting a t2 or better mwd gives you a cap increase now. |
Kirex
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:39:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Small scale I see 5 vs 5. Good number? Youre in demios and your buddies are in arazu, cerb, falcon and stiletto. FC calls a muninn. Muninn goes say 260 m/s without mwd. Your arazu makes sure of that. Then your stiletto swoops in and apply a single t2 web, thats -60% = 156 m/s. Your demios is 20 km from target and starts mwd. Between acceleration time and top speed youre at the muninn in say 7 seconds. Then blast away with 250 damage per gun per 2 seconds. Unfortunalty they also have a stiletto and arazu. The funny thing is, they cant lock you because your falcon is sitting at 180km jamming them. by the time you reach the muninn he might have a web of course but that will only make him go like 10 m/s faster then you, and you can push in a boost from the mwd from time to time. Dont forget, fitting a t2 or better mwd gives you a cap increase now.
You know why you won? Because you had a FALCON. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:40:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Ok, so the 1 vs many era for blasterships is over. It made for good movies now it dont work. But in actual pvp on the actual TQ server things are different. Any target your fc calles primay is going to have 4 scrams, 10 webs and 14 disruptors on him. He will be doing about 4 m/s then you get there and beat him to death.
Not when I have a 9km scram on me and am doing 10m/sec with no MWD I'm not. And just forget about the afterburner concept. Try using one on SISI and you'll understand. |
PeHD0M |
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:14:00 - [ 12]
I think all of you know that ccp will not change this "new feature" of scramlers.. they will simply not listen, like it was with mirmydon.
So, it is time to train drake\raven. Gallante blaster ships are now dead. Welcome to the nerflandia. |
Markas Crais
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:20:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: PeHD0M
I think all of you know that ccp will not change this "new feature" of scramlers.. they will simply not listen, like it was with mirmydon.
So, it is time to train drake\raven. Gallante blaster ships are now dead. Welcome to the nerflandia.
Aye. I think this was a ploy to make the Caldari militia actually good. |
Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:29:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Markas Crais
Originally by: PeHD0M
I think all of you know that ccp will not change this "new feature" of scramlers.. they will simply not listen, like it was with mirmydon.
So, it is time to train drake\raven. Gallante blaster ships are now dead. Welcome to the nerflandia.
Aye. I think this was a ploy to make the Caldari militia actually good.
Who the hell cares about your stupid militia when this patch is going to screw pvp balance so hard? |
Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari |
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:34:00 - [ 15]
I'm actually glad about these changes. When they go live (and I'm pretty sure that they will, no matter what is said or done), it will become obvious to everyone that blasters are no longer a viable weapon system and they will get some boosts, hopefully in a year or two. As it is now, they are already deeply flawed and not worth training for/using, but it's still possible to claim otherwise. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:37:00 - [ 16]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
I'm actually glad about these changes. When they go live (and I'm pretty sure that they will, no matter what is said or done), it will become obvious to everyone that blasters are no longer a viable weapon system and they will get some boosts, hopefully in a year or two. As it is now, they are already deeply flawed and not worth training for/using, but it's still possible to claim otherwise.
That's some pretty sick thinking there sir. LOL. |
Markas Crais
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:39:00 - [ 17]
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Typhado3
Minmatar |
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:02:00 - [ 18]
my advice is to choose a type of ship or a race that you like purely on the back story and stick with that race. With ccps wild nerfing you will probably be still hit a few times and will have to face massively overpowered enemies but it's better than trying to train for something good only to have it nerfed again and again..... at least that's what I'm trying. unfortunately for me my favorite based on back story of race and play style of ship is minmatar support pilot  |
Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery |
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:22:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Typhado3
my advice is to choose a type of ship or a race that you like purely on the back story and stick with that race. With ccps wild nerfing you will probably be still hit a few times and will have to face massively overpowered enemies but it's better than trying to train for something good only to have it nerfed again and again.....
at least that's what I'm trying. unfortunately for me my favorite based on back story of race and play style of ship is minmatar support pilot
Heh. Who said you had to play the game to win, hey? /me salutes you for your doomed cavalry charge at the artillery. Problem is that the good ships and the crap ships cost the same ISK (ie time to grind income).... Hence why Caldari Drakes are so popular...not everyone likes spending more of their time grinding ISK to lose more poorly balanced ships just because they like the style involved. Too many people like winning rather than playing :D |
Sar Ferredj
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:06:00 - [ 20]
This patch sound like death of Blasterships (gallenteans speciality) and bring another boost to Caldari. . .
They killed the Domi, then the Myrmidon, the Eos . . .
Now it's time for the Megathron & the Astarte . . .
Thanks CCP ! |
Markas Crais
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:38:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Sar Ferredj
This patch sound like death of Blasterships (gallenteans speciality) and bring another boost to Caldari. . .
They killed the Domi, then the Myrmidon, the Eos . . .
Now it's time for the Megathron & the Astarte . . .
Thanks CCP !
Domi isn't too dead imo, but I know what you mean. Especially the Myrmidon/Eos nerf, wtf is with that?  |
forum mematar
Caldari |
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:57:00 - [ 22]
Thank you CCP for ruining Gallente! Anyone want to buy a couple Domi Webs and a Navy Mega?  |
Zephyr Rengate
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:58:00 - [ 23]
Guess i'm gonna have to get my missile skills up. |
Zephyr Rengate
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 09:41:00 - [ 24]
Quick question, can a BS still use a MWD to burn back to the gate if caught in a camp? |
WillageGirl |
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:07:00 - [ 25]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
Quick question, can a BS still use a MWD to burn back to the gate if caught in a camp?
I believe its going to die horribly ...not that there would be any reason to jump a BS solo through gate anyways with all jump bridges and carriers and jump freighters around ...unless you are the one trying to have some fun without a huge blob, but that doesnt seem to be supported by CCP at all |
Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus |
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:08:00 - [ 26]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
Quick question, can a BS still use a MWD to burn back to the gate if caught in a camp?
If you coundt apply a web on a bs bfore it reached the gate you prolly wont be able to put a warp scrambler on one either, so I'd say "yes". |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness. |
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:14:00 - [ 27]
You complaining on your blaster ships? Check the minmatar ships. Now they are HEAVIER than your blaster ships so they accelerate even slower.
I am most of time in the test server in USI system ifyou want to test. But at least the hyperion is BETTER nwo than it was when compared to other battleships. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:31:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
You complaining on your blaster ships? Check the minmatar ships. Now they are HEAVIER than your blaster ships so they accelerate even slower.
I am most of time in the test server in USI system ifyou want to test. But at least the hyperion is BETTER nwo than it was when compared to other battleships.
With T1 guns and Min BS4 I hopped in a Tempest and went 1v1 vs a Mega, then a Hype. With the 5th mid and a 9km T2 2 point scram I was able to counter web both BS and shut off their MWDS, dictate range and tracking and kill them. The slight change in the Minmatar BS mass is a non factor. BS are so slow that the overall speed differential between the Min and Gal BS is extremely small. It's not like the difference beween my Ishtar and my Vagabond for instance. So yes, the Hype is DEFINITELY WORSE now. Stop posting unless you've actually tested the ships in question, AND have tested each one from both sides at least 3-4 times. |
WillageGirl |
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:34:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
Quick question, can a BS still use a MWD to burn back to the gate if caught in a camp?
If you coundt apply a web on a bs bfore it reached the gate you prolly wont be able to put a warp scrambler on one either, so I'd say "yes".
THe difference is that if this goes live, everyone and their mother will be using sensor boosted lanchesis' with scramblers on gate camp and 18km (recon 5 and T2 srcambler - from item database) is more than enough to reach most things coming through gate when you are lighter and accelerate faster. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:55:00 - [ 30]
|
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