Originally by: Andnowthenews

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Edited by: Andnowthenews on 13/08/2008 11:57:10

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Geesh. It does not matter that you never encounter a 27km/s mach or that it costs billions. IT IS REDICILOUS THAT A BS CAN GO 27km/s END OF STORY. You gotta be a real ****** if you think this is intended game mechanics. This is one of the reasons Im so happy they are nerfing the crap out of nano's because people that think these are normal game mechanics deserve a good nerf bat spank.

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I have yet to see any pro nano player support or care about BS that goes 27km/s so stfu and stop using it as a flag to wave. Screwing over and reducing to uselessness entire classes of ships just because of a few hardly used BS is totally r*tarded.

You are happy about this nerf because it will lower the bar on skilled pvp in eve and so making your idea of pvp (a skilless slug fest between 2 blobs of virtually stationary ships) one of the few options left.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 13/08/2008 10:26:14
Geesh. It does not matter that you never encounter a 27km/s mach or that it costs billions. IT IS REDICILOUS THAT A BS CAN GO 27km/s END OF STORY. You gotta be a real ****** if you think this is intended game mechanics. This is one of the reasons Im so happy they are nerfing the crap out of nano's because people that think these are normal game mechanics deserve a good nerf bat spank.

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Originally by: DeadDuck

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Originally by: Andnowthenews

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Edited by: Andnowthenews on 13/08/2008 11:57:10

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Geesh. It does not matter that you never encounter a 27km/s mach or that it costs billions. IT IS REDICILOUS THAT A BS CAN GO 27km/s END OF STORY. You gotta be a real ****** if you think this is intended game mechanics. This is one of the reasons Im so happy they are nerfing the crap out of nano's because people that think these are normal game mechanics deserve a good nerf bat spank.

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I have yet to see any pro nano player support or care about BS that goes 27km/s so stfu and stop using it as a flag to wave. Screwing over and reducing to uselessness entire classes of ships just because of a few hardly used BS is totally r*tarded.

You are happy about this nerf because it will lower the bar on skilled pvp in eve and so making your idea of pvp (a skilless slug fest between 2 blobs of virtually stationary ships) one of the few options left.

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Is it so hard to understand that the same game mechanics that allow a BS to reach ridiculous speeds are the same that work for ALL other ships in game ???? Try to use a HM Sacrilege with a snake set + Polys + Overdrives and then a Claymore in support and you will have a sacrilege reaching easaly 8K m/s, same crap with ishtars, zealots, Tec 1 cruisers, Titans

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Originally by: AshtarDJ

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Geeesh... Could you guys plz stop bringing up the extremes already!!?? The extermes are NOT the problem. If someone wants to spend 10+ bill on mods+implants to be uber at something, it's up to him. If a mach for 10 bill does 27k/s, good for him!!! I've seen a paladin with 10 bill on mods+implants permatank 2 motherships... If you don't want the extremes, then ask CCP to take away all officer/faction mods from the game.

The problem on TQ are NOT the vaga pilots with snakes doing 10k+ (cuz as stated, they don't do anything else then go fast). The problem is all those ishtars, zealots, cerbs, etc... with cheap t2 fits doing 3k+. Those ships were not meant to go that fast and THAT is what is unbalanced about nanos. They have much much much higher DPS then the vagas while doind those speeds and being able to speed tank all weapon systems.

I am totally pro the nano nerf, when I see an ishtar doing 5k/s I just wish CCP would fix that "problem" sooner, but when I see a vaga doing 12k/s I just congratulate him on the speed he's doing.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Andnowthenews

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Geesh. It does not matter that you never encounter a 27km/s mach or that it costs billions. IT IS REDICILOUS THAT A BS CAN GO 27km/s END OF STORY. You gotta be a real ****** if you think this is intended game mechanics. This is one of the reasons Im so happy they are nerfing the crap out of nano's because people that think these are normal game mechanics deserve a good nerf bat spank.

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I have yet to see any pro nano player support or care about BS that goes 27km/s so stfu and stop using it as a flag to wave. Screwing over and reducing to uselessness entire classes of ships just because of a few hardly used BS is totally r*tarded.

You are happy about this nerf because it will lower the bar on skilled pvp in eve and so making your idea of pvp (a skilless slug fest between 2 blobs of virtually stationary ships) one of the few options left.

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Yeah because I'm known to not fly frig sized ships yeah (sarcasm meter explodes)? Go fail in some other thread mate.

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Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

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Originally by: DeadDuck

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Originally by: Ihrda Siharkhail

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reduce speed bonus on 100mn mwds?

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You can't, all the Blaster Megas pilots will try to hang you if you do that, and btw a ragnarok was almost reaching 1K m/s when I quit fitting it ...

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as opposed to the dev suggestions?

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Originally by: AshtarDJ

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The problem is all those ishtars, zealots, cerbs, etc... with cheap t2 fits doing 3k+. Those ships were not meant to go that fast and THAT is what is unbalanced about nanos.

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Originally by: Meina Lamia

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Tbh, I don't think any ships above Destroyer should have a effective speed tank vs Battlship class ships and higher.
- once you remove speed, only viable defense is active/passive/buffer tank. Do you think your cruiser can face BS damage output? Why flying smaller ships, then...

The sheer idea that a ship the size of a Crusier can speed tank is mind boggling. There should be no way in hell you can speed tank your Class of ship and down, it just doesnt make sense.
- there isn't. Any PvP fitted ship can hit nano - yes, MWD is a must for PvP ships. I don't think there is a problem when speed tanked ship take brick or badly fitted ship down, even a larger sized.

To top it off, when people say speed tanking, what do you actualy mean by that? That you are fast enough that you reduce incoming damage by 20%? 40%? 60%? That you take no damage at all? What is the bottom line here? What are people really thinking when they say speed tanking?
- speed fitted ships sacrifice their tanking abilities(not talking about any particular ships - Vaga with extenders, etc.) so they should mitigate large amount of dmg. As already said, fighting nano ships ain't that difficult and you don't really need extra fit to do it.

Also the sheer idea that because you can go so fast, that can now attack fleets twice your size and it called Garilla Warfar is lunacy. The idea that you could do something like that shows there is a issue right there in of itself. Garrilla Warfare, would be how fast you can get to your targets in a space game, attack SMALLER Units or Numbers then yourself and have the speed to escape befor reinforcements arrive.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare

No ship built for speed should be able to take one on one a ship not built for speed but tank and gank.
- explained above.

And the odd part is your own speed should be effecting your own systems, the faster you go, the smaller your window of oppertunity is for you to fire and hit your targets to.
- it works as you say. If you go too fast, you outrun your own guns.


I think each ship should have its own speed cap. And there should be a top end cap PERIOD. So weapons stay effective, just less effective and it would be size by size tiered. No way in hell should a Cruiser be able to effectively in its favor speed tank another Cruiser.
- caps are for losers who aren't creative enough to come with proper fix.

I think the issue with HACs is, Speed Tanking in the form of breaking the game mechanics was the only way to justify the costs spent on these ships, they really don't take enough damage to make it worth while.
- Smaller ships(such as cruiser are) can benefit from their speed only. No other reason to fly them.


I think Intys were the only ships EVE ever had in mind that could Speed Tank Period.
- speed tank with 100% dmg mitigation, vulnerable to anti-support ships only

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Originally by: Meina Lamia

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I think the issue is, what is the top speed ships should go that makes them able to be hit by both guns and missles to a decent effect.

Tbh, I don't think any ships above Destroyer should have a effective speed tank vs Battlship class ships and higher.

The sheer idea that a ship the size of a Crusier can speed tank is mind boggling. There should be no way in hell you can speed tank your Class of ship and down, it just doesnt make sense.

To top it off, when people say speed tanking, what do you actualy mean by that? That you are fast enough that you reduce incoming damage by 20%? 40%? 60%? That you take no damage at all? What is the bottom line here? What are people really thinking when they say speed tanking?

Also the sheer idea that because you can go so fast, that can now attack fleets twice your size and it called Garilla Warfar is lunacy. The idea that you could do something like that shows there is a issue right there in of itself. Garrilla Warfare, would be how fast you can get to your targets in a space game, attack SMALLER Units or Numbers then yourself and have the speed to escape befor reinforcements arrive.

No ship built for speed should be able to take one on one a ship not built for speed but tank and gank.

Tank Destoryers were built upon the same idea, they had high firepower, fast, but couldnt take a hit. The would move fast, get to a good point in the Terrain to their advantage, Fire and leave. Because they couldnt stand there going toe to toe with another Tank. A ringing blow on a Tank would leave it able to fire back, a ringing blow on a Tank Destoryer would either leave the TD disabled or its Crew dead.

And the odd part is your own speed should be effecting your own systems, the faster you go, the smaller your window of oppertunity is for you to fire and hit your targets to.

I think each ship should have its own speed cap. And there should be a top end cap PERIOD. So weapons stay effective, just less effective and it would be size by size tiered. No way in hell should a Cruiser be able to effectively in its favor speed tank another Cruiser.

Having lots of money doesnt logicaly give the excuse to go as fast as you like, there would still be limits.

What money and mods should do instead of it takeing you 8 mods, rigs, drugs and implants, to reach your top speed, you now can do it with 4 to reach your top speed and you now have room to add other mods instead.

I think the issue with HACs is, Speed Tanking in the form of breaking the game mechanics was the only way to justify the costs spent on these ships, they really don't take enough damage to make it worth while.

They should have probably been built as a T2 Heavy Cruiser, with hit points half way between Cruiser and Battlecruiser. That way a HAC could take the hits while dishing it out. Which is what I believe it was ment to do all along.

A Hac jumps in system, uses its superior warp speed to get to targets, with its heavy tank, takes the hits, dishes out alot of damage and uses its superior warp speed to run off staying ahead of most T1 Ships and some T2 if it has a head start.

THATS Garrialla Warfare amongst the larger ships such as Crusiers and above.

I think Intys were the only ships EVE ever had in mind that could Speed Tank Period.

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Originally by: Kepakh

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Originally by: Meina Lamia

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Tbh, I don't think any ships above Destroyer should have a effective speed tank vs Battlship class ships and higher.
- once you remove speed, only viable defense is active/passive/buffer tank. Do you think your cruiser can face BS damage output? Why flying smaller ships, then...

No, NOR SHOULD a Cruiser take BS damage output, what are people thinking here?

The sheer idea that a ship the size of a Crusier can speed tank is mind boggling. There should be no way in hell you can speed tank your Class of ship and down, it just doesnt make sense.
- there isn't. Any PvP fitted ship can hit nano - yes, MWD is a must for PvP ships. I don't think there is a problem when speed tanked ship take brick or badly fitted ship down, even a larger sized.

lol if a ship is badly fitted, you don't need a nano ship to take it down =p And no, not any ship can just hit a Nano unless it does something stupid.

To top it off, when people say speed tanking, what do you actualy mean by that? That you are fast enough that you reduce incoming damage by 20%? 40%? 60%? That you take no damage at all? What is the bottom line here? What are people really thinking when they say speed tanking?
- speed fitted ships sacrifice their tanking abilities(not talking about any particular ships - Vaga with extenders, etc.) so they should mitigate large amount of dmg. As already said, fighting nano ships ain't that difficult and you don't really need extra fit to do it.
I differ here, I have been in anti nano gangs, our fits were always different. And you don't mitigate large amounts of damage most just don't take damage and when the do they are gone in a flash.

Also the sheer idea that because you can go so fast, that can now attack fleets twice your size and it called Garilla Warfar is lunacy. The idea that you could do something like that shows there is a issue right there in of itself. Garrilla Warfare, would be how fast you can get to your targets in a space game, attack SMALLER Units or Numbers then yourself and have the speed to escape befor reinforcements arrive.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare
I have friends in the special forces, they laugh at what people in EVE think of Guerrilla Warefare.

No ship built for speed should be able to take one on one a ship not built for speed but tank and gank.
- explained above.

Explained above

And the odd part is your own speed should be effecting your own systems, the faster you go, the smaller your window of oppertunity is for you to fire and hit your targets to.
- it works as you say. If you go too fast, you outrun your own guns.


I think each ship should have its own speed cap. And there should be a top end cap PERIOD. So weapons stay effective, just less effective and it would be size by size tiered. No way in hell should a Cruiser be able to effectively in its favor speed tank another Cruiser.
- caps are for losers who aren't creative enough to come with proper fix.

That is a opinin and not supported by fact.

I think the issue with HACs is, Speed Tanking in the form of breaking the game mechanics was the only way to justify the costs spent on these ships, they really don't take enough damage to make it worth while.
- Smaller ships(such as cruiser are) can benefit from their speed only. No other reason to fly them.


Sure their is, in you way you have said it, only losers would not be able to make that work.

I think Intys were the only ships EVE ever had in mind that could Speed Tank Period.
- speed tank with 100% dmg mitigation, vulnerable to anti-support ships only

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