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Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:24:00 - [1]
 

Was looking for Apoc setups and figured I'd format the post correctly to start a collection here for use in the Ships Fitting Index.

Please post setups & explanations ideally. Please also indicate if it is a PVP setup or for PVE use.

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:33:00 - [2]
 

Originally posted by Tamoko:

[Apocalypse, L4 Beams]
Large Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range

Mega Anode Particle Stream I, Multifrequency L
Mega Anode Particle Stream I, Multifrequency L
Mega Anode Particle Stream I, Multifrequency L
Mega Anode Particle Stream I, Multifrequency L
Mega Anode Particle Stream I, Multifrequency L
Mega Anode Particle Stream I, Multifrequency L
Dual Anode Heavy Particle Stream I, Multifrequency L
Dual Anode Heavy Particle Stream I, Multifrequency L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

*** Switch MAR2 out for a Heatsink as you learn the missions.

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:41:00 - [3]
 

Originally Posted by Sharrow Za:

[Apocalypse, lvl4 runner]
Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer
3x T2 active hardener
Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Energy Collision Accelerator I

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

*** No AB, so it is a slow but steady Pulse mission runner.

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:45:00 - [4]
 

Originally posted by: Hirana Yoshida

The trick is to overcome the urge to fit a gun in every available slot.

[Apocalypse, Sniper]
2x Tracking Enhancer II
2x Heat Sink II
Emergency Damage Control I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Reactor Control Unit II

100mn MWD
3x Sensor Booster II

7x Tachyon Beam Laser II
[empty high slot]

Energy Locus Coordinator I
2x [empty rig slot]

As with all sniping battle ships you have to consider if a slot with a fitting mod is better than adding more damage or range/tracking.
The above will reach out to maximum targeting range with T2 crystals and a comfortable 163km with Navy Infrared. Swap plate for a RCU/PDU and add more locus rigs to make the range with T1 crystals even higher

Securitas Protector
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:50:00 - [5]
 

My PVE(ratting) setup...pulses work fine for this, especially with Amarr Battleship V(:D) This is anti-Sansha's.
Cap stable, although you can remove a Cap Recharger and put in a Tracking Computer and have it be cap stable for a long, long time.
It tanks: 482 DPS with my meager skills, of Sansha's
It does: 436 DPS with Amarr Navy Multifreqs(really, these are worth it) at 20KM.


8x Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I(I use Afocals but that's because these are unavailable in my area)
4x Cap Recharger II
1x LAR II
2x N-Type EM Hardener I's(rat specific)
2x N-Type Thermal Hardener I's(rat specific)
1x Heatsink II
1x DCU II(Gets higher armor resists than EANM)

5x Hammerhead II's

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:52:00 - [6]
 

Originally Posted by: J Ryan

[Apocalypse, Gank Sniper]
Reactor Control Unit II
Reactor Control Unit II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Damage Control II

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Tracking Computer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive I

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L

Algid Energy Administrations Unit I

Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

All gank, no tank.

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:54:00 - [7]
 

Originally posted by: Julie Hayes

Where I live, there is the danger of getting DDed a lot. Being aligned etc is not gonna save you every time, so I usually use a DD-proof setup.

[Apocalypse, New Setup 1]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Reactor Control Unit II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Aurora L
[empty high slot]

Trimark Armor Pump I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

Warrior II x5
Medium Armor Maintenance Bot I x5


Can tank all DDes easy, 188km optimal. It's a fat-ass ship though :D

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:56:00 - [8]
 

Originally posted by: Captator

[Apocalypse, sniping megabeams]
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Reactor Control Unit II
True Sansha Adaptive Nano Plating
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L
Mega Beam Laser II, Aurora L

Energy Locus Coordinator I
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

How is this for a sniping fit? roughly 220km optimal+falloff, 370 dps, 80k EHP

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.07.11 20:57:00 - [9]
 

My ratting setup from memory:

hi:
Mega Beam (Modulated) x8: Amarr Navy crystals

mid:
3x Cap Recharger II
[100MN Afterburner II or Tracking Computer]

low:
Damage Control II
3x Armor Hardeners II
2x Heat Sink II
[Medium Armor Repairer II or Large Armor Repairer (named)]

5x Hobgoblin
5x Hammerhead

For the missions where I need to move a long way, I put on the afterburner and switch down to a medium armor rep. For Sansha missions (easy to resistance-tank) I actually prefer the medium rep because I can perma-run it and forget about it. I don't have the skills for T2 guns, T2 LAR, or T2 tracking computer, so, adjust your fitting accordingly.

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 21:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally posted by: Elhina Novae

[Apocalypse, General Mission Runner]
8 x Mega Modulated Pulse

1 x Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
3 x Cap Recharger II

1 x Large Armor Repair
3 x Heat sink
3 x Active Hardener OR 2 x Active Hardener, 1 x Tracking Enhancher II

1 x CCC
2 x Locus (range increasing one)

Works like a charm for missions both long range and close ranged, can easily kill cruisers orbiting under 10km, and some frigates/destroyers at 15km

Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.07.11 21:08:00 - [11]
 

If you prefer Tach's to beam, the following can work. Shadow serp TC is completely optional, and the RCU is dirt cheap.

[Apocalypse, MissionTach]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
True Sansha Reactor Control Unit
Large Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L

Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 21:10:00 - [12]
 

Originally posted by: Sidious Lord

Regardless of that tho, you want a navy apoc setup to aim for. Amarr BS rule for Amarr missions, so assuming u are doing them, u don't really need to hit beyond 50-60 km then I'd suggest this fit I've used alot:-

[Apocalypse 2, mission]
Setele's Modified Large Armor Repairer
Amarr Navy Armor EM Hardener
Amarr Navy Armor EM Hardener
Amarr Navy Armor Thermic Hardener
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Tank with the officer rep is over 553 sustained dps (with 900 burst that lasts over 5 mins) which is plenty and probably overtanked (i have the -7% repair cycle reduction implant too tho, implants can really help out, esp the +5% dam ones). With faction LAR (Blood/TS/Amarr) its 426 sustained and 814 burst for > 4 mins.

576 DPS at 60km without drones with the scorch.
722 DPS at 20km optimal (28km with falloff) with amarr navy MF without drones.
5 x hammerhead IIs give another 138 DPS with my less than perfect skills.
So u can be doing 860 DPS which is very nice.

So, with a faction tank and just tech II gank you will be tanking enough for all bar the very hardest lvl 4s and putting out over 800 DPS on most NPC ships. All in all very nice. I was also gonna suggest an Abaddon but actually looking at it with the new Navy Apoc boost its similar DPS to the Abaddon as u can use faction multi instead of faction x-ray at most of the combat range, and the tank is great.

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 21:12:00 - [13]
 

Link to a good discussion thread on Apoc fitting strategy and theory:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=805562

*** Above setup lifted from this thread.

Sicex
Roid Ravagers
Unitary Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.11 21:19:00 - [14]
 

Link to a useful thread discussing Amarr laser damage & guns:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=805329

Galia Bonaventure
Posted - 2008.07.11 21:32:00 - [15]
 

A very nice thread, very well thought-out setups from everyone posting. Deserves to be in the sticky index.

Temitten
Posted - 2008.07.11 21:43:00 - [16]
 

I sometimes use this when running missions with mates, the idea being to blow everything up before they get the chance (usually works):

8x Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I

3x Cap Recharger II
1x Tracking Computer II

1x Large Armor Repairer II
2x EANM II
2x Heat Sink II
1x Damage Control II
1x Reactor Control I

2x CCC
1x Ancillary Current Router I

Ripley Wisdomseeker
Posted - 2008.07.14 08:43:00 - [17]
 

C&P from another thread on apoc... I was called a troll because of 6 lasers only... anyway...

I have an Apoc navy as mission runner...

...this is the setup:

Highs:
6x amarr navy tachyon beam (navy mfs)
1x tracking beam
1x salvager

Med's:
1x Amarr navy Tracking Comp
1x Amarr Navy AB
2x Cap recharger T II

Lows:
1x Amarr navy LAR
1x "Protest" LAR
1x Amarr Navy Heat Sink
1x Amarr Navy Capacitor Power Relay
1x Dark Blood Armor EM hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor kinetic hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor explosve hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor thermic hardener

Rigs:
1x CCC Tech II
2x CCC

I'll probably swap the salvager for another Tachyon and clean up after mssions when having advanced weapon upgrades higher...

Since I obviously invested some isk in that ship, I will never drop an LAR for two reasons:
1. There are plenty lvl 4 missions where being the main target calls for a sustainable 2 LAR fitting ELSE warp out asap!
2. Most BS's get lost due to system crash or being disconnected - when 2 LAR's run 24/7 the chances to keep your ship are much better then without!

Elhina Novae
HAMMER -N- SICKEL
Posted - 2008.07.14 09:40:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Elhina Novae on 14/07/2008 09:42:45
Originally by: Ripley Wisdomseeker
C&P from another thread on apoc... I was called a troll because of 6 lasers only... anyway...

I have an Apoc navy as mission runner...

...this is the setup:

Highs:
6x amarr navy tachyon beam (navy mfs)
1x tracking beam
1x salvager

Med's:
1x Amarr navy Tracking Comp
1x Amarr Navy AB
2x Cap recharger T II

Lows:
1x Amarr navy LAR
1x "Protest" LAR
1x Amarr Navy Heat Sink
1x Amarr Navy Capacitor Power Relay
1x Dark Blood Armor EM hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor kinetic hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor explosve hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor thermic hardener

Rigs:
1x CCC Tech II
2x CCC

I'll probably swap the salvager for another Tachyon and clean up after mssions when having advanced weapon upgrades higher...

Since I obviously invested some isk in that ship, I will never drop an LAR for two reasons:
1. There are plenty lvl 4 missions where being the main target calls for a sustainable 2 LAR fitting ELSE warp out asap!
2. Most BS's get lost due to system crash or being disconnected - when 2 LAR's run 24/7 the chances to keep your ship are much better then without!

1 LAR is enough for all missions period (blood/sansha/angels). You're killing at close range so you must do something wrong if the rats actually gets in range too shoot at you. Also the lack of Heat Sinks is a big error, 1 single tractor/salvager? Use a Salvaging boat afterwards.

EDIT: About loosing the ship too lag there is a easy fix. Don't mission in missionhubs! Go to an agent with abit lower quality in a 0.5 - 0.7 system that will give you better rewards then whatever shiny q20 agent you're having fun with.

Tanith YarnDemon
Posted - 2008.07.14 09:47:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Tanith YarnDemon on 14/07/2008 09:47:16
Originally by: Sicex
Originally posted by: Elhina Novae

[Apocalypse, General Mission Runner]
8 x Mega Modulated Pulse

1 x Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
3 x Cap Recharger II

1 x Large Armor Repair
3 x Heat sink
3 x Active Hardener OR 2 x Active Hardener, 1 x Tracking Enhancher II

1 x CCC
2 x Locus (range increasing one)

Works like a charm for missions both long range and close ranged, can easily kill cruisers orbiting under 10km, and some frigates/destroyers at 15km


[Apocalypse, New Setup 1]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Similiar, except this one has 50% higher damage at equal range and twice the speed, should be about equal in costs.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.07.14 10:05:00 - [20]
 

4x Unstable Neuts
4x MP II

1x ECCM
1x WD
1x Web
1x Heavy Injector II

3x 1600mm
2x EANM II
1x DCU
1x LAR II

1x Trimark
2x Egress port

2x Ogres II
2x Hammerheads II
1x Hogo

With low grade slaves 39k armour - run it all longer than ul have cap boosters. - Could add more neuts but you'll need some non drone dps in there to kill off stuff 1v1.

CmdoColin
Posted - 2008.07.14 10:50:00 - [21]
 

PvE - doing level 4 missions as a beginner.

To start level 4's in an apoc I personally would use 2 x armour reps - especially if you mess up the aggro. If you've faction then - sure you can get away with one - but I'll still often load up 2 t2's.

8 megapulse (Apoc has range as its battleship skill bonus)

4 x cap rechargers

2 large armour rep's
4 x active hardeners - 2 for each resist
1 cpr

Rigs
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Energy Burst Aerator I
Auxiliary Nano Pump I

5 medium RAT SPECIFIC drones - especially vespa's for guristas.

Very basic set up, you might want more CCC's for rigs depending on skills.

Ripley Wisdomseeker
Posted - 2008.07.14 11:20:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Ripley Wisdomseeker on 14/07/2008 11:21:13
Originally by: Elhina Novae
Edited by: Elhina Novae on 14/07/2008 09:42:45
Originally by: Ripley Wisdomseeker
C&P from another thread on apoc... I was called a troll because of 6 lasers only... anyway...

I have an Apoc navy as mission runner...

...this is the setup:

Highs:
6x amarr navy tachyon beam (navy mfs)
1x tracking beam
1x salvager

Med's:
1x Amarr navy Tracking Comp
1x Amarr Navy AB
2x Cap recharger T II

Lows:
1x Amarr navy LAR
1x "Protest" LAR
1x Amarr Navy Heat Sink
1x Amarr Navy Capacitor Power Relay
1x Dark Blood Armor EM hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor kinetic hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor explosve hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor thermic hardener

Rigs:
1x CCC Tech II
2x CCC

I'll probably swap the salvager for another Tachyon and clean up after mssions when having advanced weapon upgrades higher...

Since I obviously invested some isk in that ship, I will never drop an LAR for two reasons:
1. There are plenty lvl 4 missions where being the main target calls for a sustainable 2 LAR fitting ELSE warp out asap!
2. Most BS's get lost due to system crash or being disconnected - when 2 LAR's run 24/7 the chances to keep your ship are much better then without!

1 LAR is enough for all missions period (blood/sansha/angels). You're killing at close range so you must do something wrong if the rats actually gets in range too shoot at you. Also the lack of Heat Sinks is a big error, 1 single tractor/salvager? Use a Salvaging boat afterwards.

EDIT: About loosing the ship too lag there is a easy fix. Don't mission in missionhubs! Go to an agent with abit lower quality in a 0.5 - 0.7 system that will give you better rewards then whatever shiny q20 agent you're having fun with.


Mmmh i agree that for some mission it's not needed, but there are also plenty where 1 LAR is NOT enough! Being primary target there you receive much more than ~ 900 hps /10 sec.

In addition my range is about 35km +- 23km falloff - that makes me killing at medium distances right now, leaving frigs coming closer then 15km to my drones. Anyway, many missions make you warp directly into the bubble, so until you get into better distance you are taking damage...

Since I have 5% implants on firing speed I'd only consider a second heat sink when maybe reconfiguring the 4 resis modules to 3.

Imho those fellow players with plenty-damage-but-weak-repair-fittings are the ones loosing their ships sooner or later ^^

Question:
How many players lost a Bship due to too little damage and how many lost it due to too little hps left?
;-)

Salvager & tractor will be swapped "when having advanced weapon upgrades higher..." (see initial post) - until then it's just quicker to start looting and salvaging while fighting.

Elhina Novae
HAMMER -N- SICKEL
Posted - 2008.07.14 12:45:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Ripley Wisdomseeker
Edited by: Ripley Wisdomseeker on 14/07/2008 11:21:13
Originally by: Elhina Novae
Edited by: Elhina Novae on 14/07/2008 09:42:45
Originally by: Ripley Wisdomseeker
C&P from another thread on apoc... I was called a troll because of 6 lasers only... anyway...

I have an Apoc navy as mission runner...

...this is the setup:

Highs:
6x amarr navy tachyon beam (navy mfs)
1x tracking beam
1x salvager

Med's:
1x Amarr navy Tracking Comp
1x Amarr Navy AB
2x Cap recharger T II

Lows:
1x Amarr navy LAR
1x "Protest" LAR
1x Amarr Navy Heat Sink
1x Amarr Navy Capacitor Power Relay
1x Dark Blood Armor EM hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor kinetic hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor explosve hardener
1x Dark Blood Armor thermic hardener

Rigs:
1x CCC Tech II
2x CCC

I'll probably swap the salvager for another Tachyon and clean up after mssions when having advanced weapon upgrades higher...

Since I obviously invested some isk in that ship, I will never drop an LAR for two reasons:
1. There are plenty lvl 4 missions where being the main target calls for a sustainable 2 LAR fitting ELSE warp out asap!
2. Most BS's get lost due to system crash or being disconnected - when 2 LAR's run 24/7 the chances to keep your ship are much better then without!

1 LAR is enough for all missions period (blood/sansha/angels). You're killing at close range so you must do something wrong if the rats actually gets in range too shoot at you. Also the lack of Heat Sinks is a big error, 1 single tractor/salvager? Use a Salvaging boat afterwards.

EDIT: About loosing the ship too lag there is a easy fix. Don't mission in missionhubs! Go to an agent with abit lower quality in a 0.5 - 0.7 system that will give you better rewards then whatever shiny q20 agent you're having fun with.


Mmmh i agree that for some mission it's not needed, but there are also plenty where 1 LAR is NOT enough! Being primary target there you receive much more than ~ 900 hps /10 sec.

In addition my range is about 35km +- 23km falloff - that makes me killing at medium distances right now, leaving frigs coming closer then 15km to my drones. Anyway, many missions make you warp directly into the bubble, so until you get into better distance you are taking damage...

Since I have 5% implants on firing speed I'd only consider a second heat sink when maybe reconfiguring the 4 resis modules to 3.

Imho those fellow players with plenty-damage-but-weak-repair-fittings are the ones loosing their ships sooner or later ^^

Question:
How many players lost a Bship due to too little damage and how many lost it due to too little hps left?
;-)

Salvager & tractor will be swapped "when having advanced weapon upgrades higher..." (see initial post) - until then it's just quicker to start looting and salvaging while fighting.

Look up abit and watch my setup. That ship can do ALL level 4's flawlessly against Angels/Blood/Sansha. If you're using it against Mercenaries and Guristas i might be able too understand that you use 2 LARs, but the rest of the fittings is just o_O


 

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