| Author |
Topic |
Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2008.05.23 16:57:00 - [ 31]
 Originally by: Shadowsword
For all we know, it might just some exploit fixes like can-flipping.
SHould can-flipping be fixed, I'm sure there would be someone to scream that CCP caters to carebears, too.
Can flipping an exploit? LOL! |
Saloris Nighthawke
Caldari
Dynaverse Corporation
Sodalitas XX |
Posted - 2008.05.23 17:01:00 - [ 32]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
That's a falacious statement.
Case in point, I haven't participated in any PvP activity in the first 8 months of play. By "any", I mean I hadn't even targetted a player except fellow corpmates. Most of the people I know are the same.
Further, the majority of the players seem to be dwelling in high-sec empire according to the devblog reports, not 0.0 or lowsec.
As such, defining eve as "mainly PvP" is wrong.
Everyone has, at every time, the ability to participate in PvP but, for the majority of players, it seems to be against their will (or they wouldn't live in highsec).
I would also agree that the ""endgame"" content is in PvP areas, but that doesn't mean that Eve as a whole is mainly PvP.
I agree with the rest of your post about trust though.
I see what you are saying and while I do not disagree with you, there are those that will point out that everytime you undock you are consenting to PvP. Therefore my statement is not falacious it was just not quantified properly. |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings |
Posted - 2008.05.23 17:08:00 - [ 33]
What's so great about Lofty people? The guy's an ass. |
Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2008.05.23 17:18:00 - [ 34]
Originally by: Saloris Nighthawke
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
That's a falacious statement.
Case in point, I haven't participated in any PvP activity in the first 8 months of play. By "any", I mean I hadn't even targetted a player except fellow corpmates. Most of the people I know are the same.
Further, the majority of the players seem to be dwelling in high-sec empire according to the devblog reports, not 0.0 or lowsec.
As such, defining eve as "mainly PvP" is wrong.
Everyone has, at every time, the ability to participate in PvP but, for the majority of players, it seems to be against their will (or they wouldn't live in highsec).
I would also agree that the ""endgame"" content is in PvP areas, but that doesn't mean that Eve as a whole is mainly PvP.
I agree with the rest of your post about trust though.
I see what you are saying and while I do not disagree with you, there are those that will point out that everytime you undock you are consenting to PvP. Therefore my statement is not falacious it was just not quantified properly.
I think that it would be more accurate to say that EVE is a sandbox game, of which PvP is a large part. |
Lurana Lay
Gallente |
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:10:00 - [ 35]
|
Clone 1
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:27:00 - [ 36]
Does the OP ever not post crap? |
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:29:00 - [ 37]
Originally by: clone 1
Does the OP ever not post crap?
Seeing as how he apparently thinks PvPers are griefers… no. |
Dadack Dycsel |
Posted - 2008.05.23 18:54:00 - [ 38]
That's a falacious statement.
Case in point, I haven't participated in any PvP activity in the first 8 months of play. By "any", I mean I hadn't even targetted a player except fellow corpmates. Most of the people I know are the same.
Further, the majority of the players seem to be dwelling in high-sec empire according to the devblog reports, not 0.0 or lowsec.
As such, defining eve as "mainly PvP" is wrong.
Everyone has, at every time, the ability to participate in PvP but, for the majority of players, it seems to be against their will (or they wouldn't live in highsec).
I would also agree that the ""endgame"" content is in PvP areas, but that doesn't mean that Eve as a whole is mainly PvP.
I agree with the rest of your post about trust though.
^^the problem with eve atm. EVE is a pvp game. no reason anyone should be able too make a 100mill a day doing combat missions in secure space no wonder lagg is so bad in empire :(( put level 3 missions in low-sec and level 4's in 0.0 Kick the cowards out of empire make them earn their way. |
Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:02:00 - [ 39]
Originally by: Dadack Dycsel
EVE is a pvp game. no reason anyone should be able too make a 100mill a day doing combat missions in secure space no wonder lagg is so bad in empire :(( put level 3 missions in low-sec and level 4's in 0.0 Kick the cowards out of empire make them earn their way.
Do you have any idea how terrible that idea is? Any at all?  |
Saloris Nighthawke
Caldari
Dynaverse Corporation
Sodalitas XX |
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:23:00 - [ 40]
Edited by: Saloris Nighthawke on 23/05/2008 19:23:39 Originally by: Tarminic
I think that it would be more accurate to say that EVE is a sandbox game, of which PvP is a large part.
Aye, that it is and I said as much in my original post, just not on the same line as Meissa replied to. edit: grammar |
Shirley Serious
Amarr
The Khanid Sisters of Athra
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 19:48:00 - [ 41]
Originally by: Stakhanov
it's in the drawing board. Chill.
wait a minute... Quote:
Gang Support for Missions
Some changes to the Agent Mission system to implement proper support for groups of players completing missions together, including reward distribution and anti-griefing measures.
Hmm, the "my fleet and I have completed the mission" option which shares the rewards between them by a game mechanic, rather than the players doing it themselves, sounds like proper support for groups... And the warning popup on joining gangs warning about wars and things, sounds like an "anti-griefing measure"... Means that... Omg, It's already implemented!!! everyone wear your tinfoil hats to shield yourselves from the falling sky!!!  |
JamnOne
Amarr |
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:01:00 - [ 42]
Edited by: JamnOne on 23/05/2008 20:05:55
As mentioned before - it is in the drawing board and according to the paragraph intro to the drawing board it is basically a napkin idea.
The sad thing is - if I am not mistaken this part:
"Some changes to the Agent Mission system to implement proper support for groups of players completing missions together, including reward distribution"
has already been implemented so I am thinking that the Drawing Board needs to be updated. |
Victor Valka
Caldari
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost |
Posted - 2008.05.23 20:09:00 - [ 43]
It's not even in the patch notes and people already whine.
Wankers. |
Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 22:27:00 - [ 44]
That is an old item from the drawing board that has already been implemented years ago, it refers to the sharing of mission rewards with gang members which as started is already part of the game. Take what you see on the drawing board with a pinch of salt as it very very rarely gets updated  |
Pooka
Caldari
United Space Aillance USA
|
Posted - 2008.05.23 22:57:00 - [ 45]
Though this was a game where you can choice what you want to do. My Corp is not intertested in PVP. so we LIKE the ANTI-GRIFING measures. bye the bye I personally talked to Oveur and he promised me there would always be a place for my kind in EVE, solo and care bear high sec corp. Talked during the first  and last Vegas gathering  . |
Ashina Sito
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies |
Posted - 2008.05.23 23:02:00 - [ 46]
Originally by: Shadowsword
For all we know, it might just some exploit fixes like can-flipping.
NOOO!!! I am 5/1 with my Anti-flipper miner for the first week at it. Need more kills. There just doesn't seem to be enough of them out there though. |
Avaricia
The Accursed
Space Jerks |
Posted - 2008.05.24 00:44:00 - [ 47]
Originally by: Martin Mckenna
Since when was warping in to kill a mission runner considered PVP.
this is a good point, actually. i will demonstrate below: pvp is player vs player players are inherently real people carebears are not real people |
Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics |
Posted - 2008.05.24 03:01:00 - [ 48]
Originally by: Tippia
ITT: We make assumptions about changes that we know nothing about.
Which one are you making, so I can make the opposite assumption, then we can like, argue or something and hopefully make this thread more entertaining (at least for me)? Nah, you're right... I should prolly just leave well enough alone. |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United |
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:30:00 - [ 49]
Originally by: JamnOne
.. has already been implemented so I am thinking that the Drawing Board needs to be updated.
Ah, you spotted it! |
Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific |
Posted - 2008.05.24 08:59:00 - [ 50]
|
Lyra Blazing |
Posted - 2008.05.24 10:55:00 - [ 51]
Edited by: Lyra Blazing on 24/05/2008 11:02:49Edited by: Lyra Blazing on 24/05/2008 10:56:41Edited by: Lyra Blazing on 24/05/2008 10:55:51Hihi i love you pvp types. This is about the lofty scam btw. The reason its implemented now is fw. So its not about Carebears at all they have long since adapted. Its because all you pvp types feared that you will be killed by your fw gang mates before you even reach the objective. So ccp ended lofty because pirates and pvpers whined about it. LinkageRealy have to love them for it :) |
Jalmari Huitsikko
Caldari
draketrain
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 11:38:00 - [ 52]
Greatest flaw of EvE is that there is any high sec space at all. If low sec was as secure it could get all mechanics could be adjusted to support traveling and doing missions in really low security space instead of all these silly "exploits" of different kind of rules to suicide gank or can flip etc. lameness which doesn't make any sense at all TBH.
|
Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
OWN Alliance |
Posted - 2008.05.24 11:50:00 - [ 53]
Edited by: Brachis on 24/05/2008 12:16:25
This is so ridiculous. Leave it the the EVE community to be outspoken against Anti-Griefing measures.
The whole point of Griefing is that it's done to make life hard for other players for no other reason than to laugh to yourself and your buddies about it, which detracts from the game. Griefing is a practice which is universally damaging to a game's community.
Anti-griefing measures aren't just there to make it hard for pirates, they're there to make it hard for griefers. Pirates have the unique position of performing their actions as a means to profit, and griefers and pirates are often mistaken for one another, but they are not necessarily the same thing.
I guarantee you that there will still be ways to scan out mission runners, loot the wrecks they leave, and attack them if they're in insecure space or if they're a war target.
The EVE community as a whole, especially the anti-carebears, really needs to get a grip and realize that forcing and encouraging space to be less safe is NOT an improvement. Low-sec and null-sec are great boons and wonderful gameplay mechanics, but the entire universe being insecure for players of any kind leaves the casual community living in fear, and would likely cause them to leave the game entirely.
CCP knows this. Players who understand game design know this.
When will the rest of you figure it out? |
Fanjita |
Posted - 2008.05.24 11:52:00 - [ 54]
Originally by: Shadowsword
For all we know, it might just some exploit fixes like can-flipping.
SHould can-flipping be fixed, I'm sure there would be someone to scream that CCP caters to carebears, too.
Care to provide a link that says can flipping is an exploit? |
Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden. |
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:08:00 - [ 55]
Originally by: Brachis
CCP knows this. Intelligent players who understand game design know this.
Why can't the rest of you figure it out?
Good job us stupid meatheads kept playing an Eve of fear and risk, an exciting Eve, long enough for casual gamers to join and soften it up, amirite? |
Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
OWN Alliance |
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:15:00 - [ 56]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Brachis
CCP knows this. Intelligent players who understand game design know this.
Why can't the rest of you figure it out?
Good job us stupid meatheads kept playing an Eve of fear and risk, an exciting Eve, long enough for casual gamers to join and soften it up, amirite?
I'm not trying to say that anyone who is anti-carebear is stupid, and I'm sorry I typed that last part poorly. I shall edit it to better convey my intent. But I'd also argue that the economy of EVE is built around the sum of its parts, which includes the carebear mission runners and newbie miners. I think it's stilly to say that EVE would be better off as entirely insecure space, because the number of people playing and supporting the game would drop dramatically. And I mean both economically in game and lining CCP's pockets. Do we need to make EVE into carebear land? No, not at all. But adding in anti-grief measures for the players who play in highsec (Which, as some corporations have proven, isn't all that secure really) isn't going to do that. |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core |
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:17:00 - [ 57]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 24/05/2008 12:30:24 Originally by: Avon
Good job us stupid meatheads kept playing an Eve of fear and risk, an exciting Eve, long enough for casual gamers to join and soften it up, amirite?
Hear hear, now that the intelligent player base has finally arrived the rest of us should all just go away and stop being the evil griefers that we so obviously are. While we're at it we should totally add consensual pvp flags and all weapons should be changed to some sort of device that gives the target a big hug and makes them feel happy. Originally by: Brachis
I'm not trying to say that anyone who is anti-carebear is stupid, and I'm sorry I typed that last part poorly. I shall edit it to better convey my intent.
Alot of what other people call griefing is just other players taking advantage of that persons stupidiy/laziness, e.g. * can flipping - mining into an unsecure container because it has a larger storeage capacity * high sec suicide killing - killing players that put billions of cargo in a weak ship with no scouts, escorts etc because its more convenient. The smartest thing CCP did right from the start with Eve is instead of adding controls that forcibly regulate player behaviour they instead chose to add consequences instead. I agree that Eve with all unsecure space is surely a bad idea but having completely secure space is just as bad. If high sec space was totally secure the players living there would be able to operate without consequences, they'd never learn that certain actions come with risks (see the above examples) and therefore would never learn how to deal with the consequences, how to avoid or minimize them and how to cope when things go bad. A totally secure high sec space would actually make it harder for players to make the transition to low sec / 0.0 as the rules would dramatically change and you'd risk having a player base that is so polarised you may as well have seperate pvp and pve servers for all the difference it'd make. |
Taua Roqa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:27:00 - [ 58]
/pvp
*gets blown up*
:°(
/pvp
|
Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core |
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:35:00 - [ 59]
/pvp
*gets blown up*
:°(
*gets another ship
/pvp
|
Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2008.05.24 12:56:00 - [ 60]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Alot of what other people call griefing is just other players taking advantage of that persons stupidiy/laziness, e.g.
* can flipping - mining into an unsecure container because it has a larger storeage capacity
* high sec suicide killing - killing players that put billions of cargo in a weak ship with no scouts, escorts etc because its more convenient.
…and, as it happens, all of those techniques have been labelled a-OK by CCP to the point where they're explicitly mentioned in the various new-player help docs as something that is thoroughly legal and needs to be watched out for. The change that is mentioned here is something that is openly and officially considered griefing. In other words this change, whatever it is, will not affect PvP. The only ones who think it will are the kind of blockheads you talk about: the ones who think PvP and griefing are one and the same. |
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