| Author |
Topic |
Boz Well
Minmatar |
Posted - 2008.05.22 00:22:00 - [ 1]
I'm wondering what's the average amount of ISK-worth of goods that most daytraders deal in. It's not that bad to manage a few billion worth of ISK, but how high do most people go? I get the feeling that at some point, updating a huge number of trades would become incredibly tedious, yet investing huge amounts in only a limited number of items is unlikely to produce more income (i.e. the orders still come in at the same rate whether the buy order is quantity 1000 or 1000000). This leads me to believe there must be a point at which it isn't worth the effort to invest more money in daytrading (buy/sell orders) at a single station. If this is the case, do most daytraders tend to expand to other hubs/systems after a certain point? I know that asking specifics on this forum generally leads to a "figure it out yourself" response, and with good reason.  That said, I don't think my question here is of the sort that would cause people to lose business, haha. I'm not asking what you trade in or where you trade it, just an approximation of how much ISK can practically be invested in this type of operation (run by one person and not updating trades 24/7, haha)  |
Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn |
Posted - 2008.05.22 02:03:00 - [ 2]
To use another MD bromide: It depends on your market.
If you're finding that you've reached a saturation point for one item, move your excess liquid into another one. If your volume is high enough and you've put the work into gaining the faction/corp standings and fee-reducing skills needed to lower your broker fees and taxes you can profitably trade items with very thin margins indeed, (thus utilizing more capital than someone who does not consider items with less than 10% margins). When you get down to it, everyone's standard is, (or should be, at least) maximizing Isk/time. Not Isk/unit traded, or any other factor which can be distilled into isk/time.
The theoretical maximum one can have invested in daytrading is not limited, but most people burn out on the high-volume, frenetic-modification trading that investing tens of billions (at maximum profitablity) requires and end up doing things they know are less profitable (in terms of isk/hr) in trade for less effort involved.
Personally, when I was daytrading with 2-5 billion isk, I was having the most fun (doing that). Now, with more than double that, I rarely trade at all anymore, concentrating on more passive means of making money, (which is equally fun). |
mynnna
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2008.05.22 04:02:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: mynnna on 22/05/2008 04:02:32I'd imagine it would depend on how low you're willing to go on margins. If turning over some isk for a 1.5% return is okay with you, then you can trade with a lot more isk than you can if your limit is, say, 5%, or 10%. <Edit> Which the fine fellow above me actually said, sort of.  |
Boz Well
Minmatar |
Posted - 2008.05.22 17:48:00 - [ 4]
 Originally by: Petyr Baelich
To use another MD bromide: It depends on your market.
If you're finding that you've reached a saturation point for one item, move your excess liquid into another one. If your volume is high enough and you've put the work into gaining the faction/corp standings and fee-reducing skills needed to lower your broker fees and taxes you can profitably trade items with very thin margins indeed, (thus utilizing more capital than someone who does not consider items with less than 10% margins). When you get down to it, everyone's standard is, (or should be, at least) maximizing Isk/time. Not Isk/unit traded, or any other factor which can be distilled into isk/time.
The theoretical maximum one can have invested in daytrading is not limited, but most people burn out on the high-volume, frenetic-modification trading that investing tens of billions (at maximum profitablity) requires and end up doing things they know are less profitable (in terms of isk/hr) in trade for less effort involved.
Personally, when I was daytrading with 2-5 billion isk, I was having the most fun (doing that). Now, with more than double that, I rarely trade at all anymore, concentrating on more passive means of making money, (which is equally fun).
Thanks for the replies guys. This is about what I assumed, but I wanted to see what other people had experienced. I realize there is no theoretical maximum someone can have invested, but I was more curious about what the practical maximum is. 2-5bln is about what I would have expected based on my experience so far. I'm sure there are plenty of other high return items besides the ones I deal in regularly, but I'm finding there comes a point where my trades are so numerous that they become a real PITA to monitor, hehe. Now if I can just stop spending money as quickly as I earn it (damn you char bazaar), I can start thinking about moving into other markets.  |
Roguehalo
Caldari
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:19:00 - [ 5]
Edited by: Roguehalo on 22/05/2008 18:19:54
I would hazard a guess, based on my own experience, that once you reach round about 10b you would start looking for a more 'passive' form of trading be what it may, since the continual updating of orders becomes a bit tiresome, once you reach a certain level of wealth.
I would imagine everybodys' 'this is getting tiresome' point varies somewhat but I expect you get the drift |
Kazzac Elentria |
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:22:00 - [ 6]
Originally by: Roguehalo
Edited by: Roguehalo on 22/05/2008 18:19:54
I would hazard a guess, based on my own experience, that once you reach round about 10b you would start looking for a more 'passive' form of trading be what it may, since the continual updating of orders becomes a bit tiresome, once you reach a certain level of wealth.
I would imagine everybodys' 'this is getting tiresome' point varies somewhat but I expect you get the drift
This essentially. Again updating 400+ orders gets tiresome after awhile, so for me personally. I've started more and more shifting funds into speculating and market manipulation. For instance using 3 or 4 billion to shift the price of X to get Y to drop. Then buying Y reselling it and calculating the difference between the small loss on X and the huge gain on Y. It's much easier to focus on 10 to 20 items instead of 100+ |
Boz Well
Minmatar |
Posted - 2008.05.22 18:53:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Originally by: Roguehalo
Edited by: Roguehalo on 22/05/2008 18:19:54
I would hazard a guess, based on my own experience, that once you reach round about 10b you would start looking for a more 'passive' form of trading be what it may, since the continual updating of orders becomes a bit tiresome, once you reach a certain level of wealth.
I would imagine everybodys' 'this is getting tiresome' point varies somewhat but I expect you get the drift
This essentially. Again updating 400+ orders gets tiresome after awhile, so for me personally. I've started more and more shifting funds into speculating and market manipulation.
For instance using 3 or 4 billion to shift the price of X to get Y to drop. Then buying Y reselling it and calculating the difference between the small loss on X and the huge gain on Y.
It's much easier to focus on 10 to 20 items instead of 100+
Interesting. While I've driven up/down the price of certain markets, I haven't really tried/thought about influencing one market to capitalize on another market. I tend to have no where near 400 orders going at once, lol. Is that what other people tend to maintain?  I usually try to deal with items pricy enough that I can invest a few hundred million in each order, and thus not have to deal with a huge volume of market orders. Perhaps I just have a really low tolerance for updating orders. |
Enihcam Xes |
Posted - 2008.05.22 20:21:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
This essentially. Again updating 400+ orders gets tiresome after awhile, so for me personally. I've started more and more shifting funds into speculating and market manipulation.
For instance using 3 or 4 billion to shift the price of X to get Y to drop. Then buying Y reselling it and calculating the difference between the small loss on X and the huge gain on Y.
It's much easier to focus on 10 to 20 items instead of 100+
I'm jealous. I've never been able to really sit down and figure out which items are complement or substitute goods. Feel like sharing any secrets? |
Kazzac Elentria |
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:23:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: Enihcam Xes
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
This essentially. Again updating 400+ orders gets tiresome after awhile, so for me personally. I've started more and more shifting funds into speculating and market manipulation.
For instance using 3 or 4 billion to shift the price of X to get Y to drop. Then buying Y reselling it and calculating the difference between the small loss on X and the huge gain on Y.
It's much easier to focus on 10 to 20 items instead of 100+
I'm jealous. I've never been able to really sit down and figure out which items are complement or substitute goods. Feel like sharing any secrets?
I won't go into specifics but will say this. Lay out the tech tree including moon minerals on down to finished product on a dry erase board. The answers you seek should be readily apparent when you put values assigned to each item. Your region and success may vary of course. |
Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn |
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:47:00 - [ 10]
Cost to manipulate moon mineral prices in the hope that unsold component stocks will become more profitable... billions.
Cost to make a post suggesting that others do so for you while simultaneously convincing them that they are actually working in their own interests... 5 minutes of your time.
Excellent investment, sir! :)
|
Kazzac Elentria |
Posted - 2008.05.23 01:51:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Cost to manipulate moon mineral prices in the hope that unsold component stocks will become more profitable... billions.
Cost to make a post suggesting that others do so for you while simultaneously convincing them that they are actually working in their own interests... 5 minutes of your time.
Excellent investment, sir! :)
Lemmings I tell you.. |
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