open All Channels
seplocked EVE New Citizens Q&A
blankseplocked Beginner's guide to * MAKING ISK * in EVE-Online
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

Author Topic

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 06/10/2010 23:17:06
_

Extra reading:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Making_ISK - mostly based on this thread
http://www.isktheguide.com - Industrial-Sized Knowledgebase
_

There are several good ways to make ISK, and there are a lot of bad ways to make ISK.
Not "bad" in the sense that you don't make any, but that you could easily do something else to get more.

Don't get me wrong, IF YOU WANT (and you find it enjoyable), DO ANYTHING.
But in my experience, logic dictates you do "work" to acheive a purpose, and that purpose is to get ISK.
What you do with that ISK afterwards, that's the most fun part, usually.
If you find your particular way of making ISK more enjoyable than anything else you can do with the ISK you get, then go right ahead, keep doing it even if it's not the best way to make ISK.

For instance, you could mine in a cruiser, but you would be making more ISK in a barge. You could be mining various ore to reprocess and manufacture something and sell it for (at least) slightly more than the minerals, but you'd make more if you mined only the most valuable ore of the moment, sold all excess minerals and bought the rest from the market. If you go into manufacture, you might as well just buy all minerals from the market, never actually mine a single piece of ore in your entire EVE life. You could be running courier missions in a battleship too, but an industrial is usually better, and the battleship is more suitable for kill missions, etc.
_

MAIN WAYS TO MAKE ISK

1. MINING

This is a very straightforward way, but one of the worst possible ISK-earners.
You go out in an asteroid belt, you start your mining lasers, you launch your mining drones (if you have any), and you haul the ore you mine in a station to be used later.
It's a boring activity... VERY boring. And pays very little.
But then again, this still appeals to some, since it leaves you with time to do something else at the same time, like, chat. Or run several accounts at the same time. Or god knows what else.

The OPTIMAL progression is your racial mining frigate first (because it's easy to train for), then head straigth to the SECOND of the mining barges (Retreiver), then to a Hulk directly.

DO NOT bother with destroyers, the mining frigate is better faster, and a mining cruiser is almost on par with the second barge, but going for the cruiser means a dead end, unless you go for a battleship, but then again you could reach the Covetor before you reach a decent level of mining in a battleship, and a Covetor is far superior... however, the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.

Whenever you mine, LOOK at what ore is available in the region, and LOOK at existing mineral buy orders, then at existing mineral sell orders.
Training the specific ore reprocessing skills should be one of the first things to do even if you don't plan on using T2 strip miners, since you can usually sell the minerals better than you could sell the ore.
Whenever you decide WHAT to mine... always pick the thing that gives you MOST ISK PER CUBIC METER OF ORE MINED, if you refine and sell the minerals.
The only reasonable exception would be if there's a high buy order for a specific type of ore : this can happen in systems where storyline agents offer the "Materials for War..." storyline (L3 asks for basic Omber, L4 asks for basic Kernite).
Bottom line... see what you can get for your ore, both refined and unrefined, and pick the MOST VALUABLE one.
Ignore the others.

There's not much more to be said about mining as a concept, everything else, details - in here.
Just remember that was written a LONG time ago when ores were relatively valuable, now income levels are MUCH lower.
Right now, MINING SUCKS income-wise.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:56:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/03/2010 04:21:23

2. MISSION RUNNING

Right now, there are four main types of missions you can be offered : courier, trade, kill and mining.
Mining missions are a relatively recent addition (or return, some might argue).

Agents give you various types of missions, depending on their division (it's in their showinfo).
Most agents' divisions are pretty obvious... for instance, Command and Security agents give you mostly kill missions, Storage agents give you mostly courier missions, and so on and so forth.
While there are plenty of listings of "types of missions for agent division" floating around, none of them are quite accurate, as they also depend on several other factors AND also a lot of randomness (for instance, while unusual, a Command agent might offer you 10 courier missions in a row).
So, in most cases, just go with your gut... worst thing that could happen is you reject a mission.

If you accept a mission however, the wisest course of action is to complete it succesfully, there are penalties (in standings) for failing a mission.
So, ALWAYS check the mission info BEFORE you accept it.
Check the mission type, and check the route you have to take to complete it.
You might want to reject kill missions if you only have an industrial ship, and you might want to reject a courier that has you going into or through a lowsec system... or, you might want to reject a mining mission if you have lousy mining skills.

Of course, you can always risk it and take all missions, but in the early stages, while you learn the ropes, it's best to avoid missions you're not suited for.
The "time bonus" on each mission is optional. Mission expiration date is the important thing (one week from the moment you took the mission, or the first mission in the chain, in case of chained missions).
FAILING to complete a mission in one week or telling the agent you are unable to finish it will bring a standings penality.

There are some special missions we like to call (or at least I like to call) "chained missions".
I've mentioned them before. You will recognize them by their name.
For instance : "Enemies Abound : 1 of 5" (or "Enemies Abound 1/5").
They are usually a set of missions of several types, and to get to the last one (usually the best paying one) you have to complete each of the previous ones first.
Failing or rejecting one of them means you're not offered the rest.


There are drawbacks to REJECTING a mission too.
If you reject a mission, a 4 hour timer for that agent starts (hidden to you, you might want to write down the time the timer is now displayed in the agent conversation box).
IF you reject ANOTHER mission before the timer expired, you will take a standings hit with the agent, his corp AND HIS FACTION.
While the standings hit is not huge, it's a good idea to avoid it nevertheless. That's why areas with multiple agents for the same corp or faction are prefered by mission-runners, since you can just ask another agent for a mission while the timer expires on another mission you were offered and you want to reject.

____


2.1. MINING MISSIONS

The missions are pretty straightforward.
You have to go to some location and mine out some "special" ore (one that can't be reprocessed, AFAIK) from some asteroids, and bring the ore back to your agent.
It's a good idea to have decent mining skills for this type of mission, obviously.

While the mision description usually tells you to bring the agent a certain quantity of ore, you might find that you need to mine the ENTIRE mission area completely before the mission can be completed.
While annoying, it's a good thing too, since ore lost "accidentally" by not having enough cargo (auto-jetissoned in space without a can) is LOST.
It's better to have the mission take a while longer instead of watching helplessly while you have no other choice except failing it.



Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:57:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 22:46:48

2.2. COURIER MISSIONS

These are the easiest missions you could possibly ask for : pick up stuff in station A, deliver it in station B.
They are also a bit boring, but unlike mining, they make you move around a lot, yet you do not have to constantly check the market to see what's best to mine at the moment.

You can usually complete them in any ship with a large enough cargo.
Most of them don't even have to be completed in a single trip, since they're made out of several identical packages... the mission description tells you how many packages they are and the total volume (so you can easily calculate how large one single package is - that's the minimum cargohold space you NEED to finish the mission).
If you have a small ship and a large cargo, you might have to forefit the bonus reward as you are forced to take several trips... but you still get the regular reward, and all the standing increases, so it's not tragic.

Things to watch out for ?
Destination or routes going through lowsec (try to avoid them, check route before accepting mission) or packages to large to fit in your cargo (the warning comes for the TOTAL cargo, not one package, so you have to check manually, like I said).




2.3. TRADE MISSIONS

This mission is basically "half a courier mission".
You don't have to pick some package up and deliver it somewhere else... you just have to deliver something to the destination.
HOW you get the goods is not any of your agent's concern.
You will usually buy them from the market, either where you find it cheapest or closest to the destination.

Things to watch out for : even if in most cases the agent will offer you a lot more ISK or an object much more valuable as a reward, in some rare cases, the cargo he asks for is valuable yet the reward nearly worthless.
So you have to check how expensive the desired mechandise is, and how much is the reward worth (in case they offer an item instead of just ISK - this type of offer might have been removed lately, but you never know).



2.4. KILL MISSIONS

Well, what's there to be said ?
Go in, kill stuff, optionally you might be asked to collect some item from one of the killed ships or structures and return it to the agent.
Sounds simple, but it's also the most dangerous mission type around.
At the same time, it's also the most lucrative type too, offering the greatest rewards both directly (ISK and Loyalty Points), but also indirectly, in form of bounties, loot, salvage, ocasionally tags or alloys instead of bounties... all from the wrecks of the destroyed enemies.

While the direct rewards (ISK and LP) might vary according to agent division, skills, standings and system security rating, all of the indirect rewards are almost identical (except for the normal randomness) for a certain mission.
Also, the secondary/indirect rewards are usually much higher than the direct rewards, and because of that, highsec "kill mission" running is the favourite ISK-making activity of a lot of pod pilots.
Another reason is that it only requires skills you could also use in PVP combat, so it's even more of an incentive.

There's a lot to be said about missions, skills you might need and so on and so forth, and I simply lack the space to even begin describing it.
It is best if you head over the missions subforum and read the things in there, maybe ask your own questions too.

Even if pilots were able to complete some L4 missions solo in ships as small as assault frigates, they were experts, and it still took a long time.
You usually want to fly a frigate only in L1s, a cruiser in L2s, a battlecruiser in L3s and battleships in L4s.
It's not a strict rule, but more of a general guideline, and feel free to either experiment or ask around about alternatives.

It's also a good idea to try and run missions together with other people you trust.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:57:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 23:09:26

2.5. STORYLINE MISSIONS

These are special types of missions you are offered after completing 16 missions of a certain level for agents of a faction.
The agents do not matter, only their faction and the agent level. The storyline agent "triggered" will belong to the same faction and offer you a storyline of that particular level.
Completing 15 L1 missions and 15 L2 missions for the same faction will not trigger a storyline, but if you complete one more L1 or L2, a corresponding level storyline is triggered soon (within seconds or minutes, usually).

Storyline missions are THE ONLY REPEATABLE WAY TO GAIN FACTION STANDINGS.
The only other ways are non-repeatable (rookie missions and COSMOS missions - once you complete them you never get them offered again on the same pilot).


_______________



3. SCIENCE AND INDUSTRY


To put it bluntly, if you are a beginner to EVE, it is best if you stay away from this area.
The only notable exception to this rule is manufacturing.

Yes, I may sound very harsh, but science and industry is best attempted with large ISK starting funds, and small-scale efforts are bound to either never really get off the ground or fail miserably, while you caould have made a lot more progress soing something else instead.
Once you get more cash in your wallet and you gain experience in the game, feel free to revisit the idea of science and industry... but then again, you won't be a beginner, so this guide does not apply to you.


3.1. Manufacture

Like I said, the only expection is manufacture.
And by that, I mean T1 manufacture, and preferably in either ammo, modules, rigs or small ships (because of the relatively affordable blueprint costs).
Do not even bother with manufacture before you have Production Efficiency trained up to level 4, and try to get it to level 5 as soon as possible.

For more details on what to manufacture, how and where, visit the Science and Industry subforum.
A good idea would be, for instance, to manufacture ammo in mission hubs, or frigates, cruisers and assorted modules (for the frigates/cruisers you also manufacture) somewhere near a lowsec (or even 0.0) system on a major transit "pipe" across EVE.

Things to watch out for : OPPORTUNITY COST.
That means, if you are selling something, you'd better damn well sell it for more ISK than you could have made by simply selling the things you used to manufacture it with... or else there's no point in manufacturing at all in the first place.

That's the most critical mistake a rookie manufacturer makes : selling below cost.
And the reason he does not go bankrupt is that he usually mines the ore himself, then reprocesses it, and uses those minerals to manufacture.
SURE, if you CANNOT sell the minerals at an acceptable price in the location they are in, then manufacturing something that actually sells at that location would make sense (but only if the effort is less than the effort you'd have to make to haul the minerals somewhere they can sell).
But if you CAN sell the minerals decently, manufacturing and selling something below that "opportunity cost" is STUPID.

_______


4. HAULING

There's two main types here : the hauler/trader, and the pure hauler.
The differences between them are minor enough not to justify treating them separately.

Basically, "hauling" is almost the same as NPC courier and/or trade missions.
Courier contracts are almost the same as NPC courier missions, but the difference is, you have to move it all in one go.
Hauling stuff is basically the same as a trade mission, but you set your own destination and cargo type : you just scour the market for cheap things in one station that sell high in another one, and move them around.

It's very simple Laughing

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:58:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 31/12/2010 07:36:33

5. TRADING

Some people like to include "non-courier contract hauling" in this category.
I personally like to simply call it hauling (or, at the extreme, "hauling/trading") instead of trading.
It doesn't really matter what we call it anyway Wink
Truth is, a "true" trader doesn't even have to leave the station he's located in... he can, of course, but he doesn't need to, as he can set up courier contracts so others haul for him (for a price, or course).

Trading can be explained in many different ways, you can go into details of what to sell and what to buy, when to do it, how to manipulate a market to see a spike in price and so on and so forth, and you can read a lot of such stories over in Market Discussions.

The thing is, eventually, it all comes down to a single thing : buy low, sell high
Whether you buy low in place A and sell high in place B, or you sell and buy in the same station at a small price difference, or even if you buy and buy a lot witing for price to grow then sell it all at the higher prices... it's all just details.

Things to watch out for : prices you sell/buy at, and all broker fees or sales taxes.
BrokerFee (%) = (1 0.05 * BrokerRelationsSkillLevel) / 2 ^ (0.14 * FactionStanding + 0.06 * CorporationStanding)
SalesTax (%) = 1 - 0.1 * AccountingSkillLevel

It's a BAD idea to disable the market-related warnings : people have accidentally put up an order with an extra zero (or two, or three), and not only did the taxes amount to more than they would have wanted to buy/sell the items for originally, but they also lost the ISK or the goods in question more often than not.
A SINGLE mistake in trading might very well cost you a FORTUNE, so don't make any mistakes.


6. COSMOS

This is a lot like mission-running, after a fashion.
The big difference however is that you can only do it in the "COSMOS" constellations, and NPCs respawn continually in there.
A list of empire-based COSMOS areas can be found by a simple site google search, but here's one of the possible results : Eveinfo - Caldari COSMOS page
EVEinfo is also a decent resource for regular missions too, in case you want to have an idea of what to expect in them.


7. RATTING

This is a lot like mission-running too, but it's done in asteroid belts.
The problem is that the "good NPC rats" only appear in lower-security systems, and the very good ones only in deep 0.0 space.

The advantage of ratting (especially for the beginner) is that highsec belt rats are VERY EASY to kill, and you find usually a lot less of them compared to what you could find in a mission.
The drawback (compared to a mission) is that you don't get any agent/corp/faction standings for doing this (but you still might lose a bit of standing with the pirate NPC factions - you would lose them if you ran missions too, anyway).

The other (minor) advantage of ratting is that there's always a (very small) chance of encountering a "faction spawn", even in empire highsec.
While they usually only drop some tags, faction ammo and such, you might also find occasionally some valuable faction modules, or even more valuable implants. It's a small chance and the drops are random, so it's not a good source of steady income.


8. EXPLORATION

The shipboard scanner is only able to find "encounters" (almost the same as a mission) but you have a slightly higher chance (compared to belt-ratting) to encounter faction or even commander NPC spawns dropping valuable loot.
Using probes you can find various other things (including entries into wormhole "wildspace"), but these are best left for others to explain.
Probing wiki page, would be a good idea to read this first.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.18 21:58:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 19/07/2011 20:13:49

_

9. MERCENARY WORK / WARS

While not the best avenue for a solo beginner pilot, it could be a nice endeavour for a group of younger pilots, especially if they can find a tutor of sorts in the "art of war"... but, like they say, experience is the best teacher.
Basically, you find somebody in need of protection... or in need of a good shakedown... and you start a corporation war against your chosen targets.
It could be good, it could be bad, but as long as your goal is to have fun, every bit of ISK you get from it is an added bonus... if you pick your targets carefully, you might actually make some decent money, even if your group is not that good.
Of course, the opposite could happen, and you end up all losing everything you have.

10. VARIOUS "DUBIOUS MORALITY" ACTS

Among them, included but not strictly limited to them, things like baiting, can-flipping, ganking, suicide ganking, pirating, ransoming, scamming, ninja-salvaging and so on and so forth.
Scamming in itself could fill whole threads, for instance... from contract scams, to chat spams, the "lofty scam" and so on and so forth, the possibilities are almost only limited by your imagination (and your victim's stupidity, greed, lack of knowledge or a combination thereof).

While not the most lucrative things you can do on a regular basis, SOME of them can offer the enterprising (and unscrupulous) beginner untold riches compared to any other endeavour he could embark on, at his "young age".
To get an idea of the thinks I've mentioned, you can head over to "Crime and Punishment" and read about other people's stories regarding this "illicit" lifestyle.

11. DATACORES

There are several ways to get a (mostly) passive source of income which doesn't require much of your attention, but the only one not already covered (at least partially) in one of the other sections is "Datacore harvesting".
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Research_agent is as good a place as any other to start.
Basically, you grind some standings (via missions usually), train some skills, and then once in a while you exchange the RPs accumulated for datacores, which you could then sell or use yourself.

12. PLANETARY INTERACTION *** NEW *** since May 2010

Decent income for newcomers. See details.

_

While I'm sure I have missed a lot of things that a beginner COULD do, and I might have mentioned a few that a beginner normally shouldn't even try to do, overall, I hope you (the reader, assumed to be a beginner) got a pretty decent idea of how to make (and for that matter, not lose) ISK in this game to the best of your abilities.

As EVE progresses, some new and exciting ways to earn ISK might appear later on... since I am not clarvoyant, and my memory can't be expected to be perfect, I'll have to rely on the rest around here to convey that message when appropriate.

I'm also sure the next few posters WILL have a lot of insights on particular subpoints I have touched in the limited space available in these posts, so it might be a good idea to read more of this thread.

Added derived standings in-depth explanation.
If you pick mission-running as a profession, you should be aware of how these work.

Another thread you might find helpful : Link
_

Alyx Farstrider:
"The goal is not maximise ISK/h. The goal is typically maximize both ISK/h and fun/h with an acceptable exchange rate between ISK and fun."
_

Useful link:
What To Do In EVE Online

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:01:00 - [7]
 

1st! Very Happy

H2 O
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:32:00 - [8]
 

you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:34:00 - [9]
 

Stealing ore (for a starter with a hauler it's good money)
trading
ninja salvaging
high sec piracy

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.05.18 22:55:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: H2 O
you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.



you disagree that mining is a boring profession then Laughing

H2 O
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:07:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: H2 O
you do not like people who mine? ought to be more neutral in your report.



you disagree that mining is a boring profession then Laughing


didnt say that. though I do not think its that bad. just seemed a little sarcastic is all for what otherwise looks like a well put together guide.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:33:00 - [12]
 

You forgot piracy, mercenary contracts, ninja salvage, scamming, begging, creating a corporation and collecting tax from members, and a whole host of other things I can think of.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:47:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 18/05/2008 23:51:45
Akita doesn't like to mine but it's not a bad beginners guide.

The only real quibble I'd have here was with skipping the Covetor and going straight for the Hulk.

That assumes you couldn't make the money faster with the Covetor in place. For it's 17 mil ISK price, the Covetor gives you half again the mining capability of the Retriever and has a larger hold to boot.

Plus, while it's just one skill away, that skill itself is a 25 mil. ISK Skill. That coupled with the price of the Hulk, some where in the 100,000,000 ISK range and you have a good chunk of change to earn. If you insure the Hulk I'd imagine that is going to cost a good bit too.

While I have found Procurer's useful (once you have one you never need to buy another and can just pass it on to the up and coming miner's in your corp) they don't help you get to the Retriever all that much faster compared to the costs involved. So I can see skipping them if you aren't going to get them for free from your corp. But I wouldn't skip the Covetor (especially if you can pass those along as well).


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:51:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 23:55:34

Aaaand... done.
For now Wink

P.S. About the Covetor : "the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.

Of course, if you can't afford it, the point is moot : go to the Covetor first.
But if you can afford the skill and ship cost (and you probably should, since you can mine ore worth 5-8 mil ISK pe hour in a Retreiver, and it takes more than one month to get from the minimal-skill Retreiver to decent-skill Covetor), then just skip it.


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2008.05.18 23:54:00 - [15]
 

My eyes! My eyes! Please, Akita T, I beg you reformat that screed? Stop using Enter at the end of every sentence :P

The path to cruiser 5 is great for people who are mining on the side while training up for Logistics or Heavy Assault Cruisers.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2008.05.19 01:14:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 18/05/2008 23:55:34
...

P.S. About the Covetor : "the Hulk is a tiny step away, skill-wise from the Covetor, and mines even better still, so you should probably just train for it as soon as you can use a Covetor, and skip the Covetor entirely.

Of course, if you can't afford it, the point is moot : go to the Covetor first.
But if you can afford the skill and ship cost (and you probably should, since you can mine ore worth 5-8 mil ISK pe hour in a Retreiver, and it takes more than one month to get from the minimal-skill Retreiver to decent-skill Covetor), then just skip it.




Yeah, in an ideal world I'd not have spent any of the money I earned with the Retriever in the time I was learning the skills for the Covetor but that isn't how it worked out.

Another factor is the interference of RL in my gaming time. While not being able to play doesn't bother those long training sessions for Astrogeology and Mining Barge it did interfere with my ISK making.

If I didn't have the Covetors I've got I'd not have nearly what ISK I do have.

So it goes.

Anyway, I'd say that the reverse of what you said about affording them was true too: If you have the money for the Hulk and it's skill by the time that you've trained up enough for a Covetor then yes, save yourself 17 mil. ISK and just wait for the Hulk.


Pan Dora
Caldari
Organization for Nuclear Research
Posted - 2008.05.19 06:16:00 - [17]
 


Quote:
DO NOT bother with destroyers, the mining frigate is better faster,


Actualy its not hard o fit 4-5 mining laser on a dessie, and the training time to destroyer I+electronic upgrades I(for co-processor) its not much at all. Maybe im missing something, but look like dessies dont need to be a 'forbiden1 mining ship (except for the fact that mining its boring and not this much profitable )

Anyways, Nice guide, as usual.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.19 07:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Pan Dora
Actualy its not hard o fit 4-5 mining laser on a dessie, and the training time to destroyer I+electronic upgrades I(for co-processor) its not much at all.

Training for a Miner II is relatively short... actually, prospectors should already have the prerequisite skills for it out of the box.
You'll have some problems fiting 3 of them on a destroyer early on, and even with T1 coprocs and relatively decent electronics skills, 4 is a stretch... you'd have to use the lower-yield named miners instead, and maybe some named coprocessors, and you will have capacitor problems running all lasers.
Meanwhile, with L3 racial frigate (which you need for the destroyer anyway), not only can you easily run the miners and a semblance of a tank since you will have zero cap issues, but you will be mining as if you had 3.2 T2 mining lasers.
Unless you can fit 4 highend T1 nameds or T2s on a destroyer (try to fit it in EFT with less than stellar skills to see what I mean), you'd be mining more in the frigate... also, in the time it might take you to get all the needed skills to fit it all, you could just train frigate 4 and mine as if you had 3.6 T2s (which beats 4 unbonused highend named ones).

So, yeah... it's usually best to skip the destroyers as mining ships altogether... let's not even begin talking about how much all of it would cost Wink

Pan Dora
Caldari
Organization for Nuclear Research
Posted - 2008.05.19 07:27:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Akita T
capacitor problems


Ahhh, that is what I forget.

Quote:
let's not even begin talking about how much all of it would cost Wink


Also the happyness when I earn my first milion Laughing



Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.05.19 08:38:00 - [20]
 

The most important tip I guess is that this game doesn't revolve about how much money you have, it might be a personal goal but walletsize does not bring fullfilment in itself.

Therefore younger players should stop going the path of making money if that means they're not actually playing the game. The whole "I'm mining now till I have x amount of isk, THEN I'll start training up for whatever I want to do to have fun". This is not WOW where you have to endure the 1-69 levels, this is EVE, the path you take is much more important than the distant goal you set.

Enjoy playing the game while at the same time make money, try different aspects and if people tell you "go mining or run missions" when you ask them how to make money don't believe them. Mining and missions are the non-effort, non-creative and non-fun ways to make cash.

Cash can be made with everything in EVE, why not do it with things you LIKE to do.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.05.19 14:47:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 19/05/2008 14:48:05
Akita, now that I read it in full, I can't help but feel this is a pretty pessimistic guide to earning ISK! One thing I think is odd is that you say Science & Industry are best avoided in the early game, except T1 manufacturing. I think it's generally accepted that it's extremely difficult to earn a profit manufacturing T1 goods, due to the strong advantage held by people with researched blueprints and high levels of the Production Efficiency skill. If newbies are going to make any money at science and industry, it'll be through research and invention.

Rather than concluding pretty much everything is "maybe not a good idea for a beginner", just list the various ways of making ISK with brief overviews of how they work.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:27:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 19/05/2008 21:31:39


I did reserve only 6 posts (so I kinda' had limited space), I did link them to the science&industry forum (if they're still interested in spite of warnings), so I thought it's pretty ok like this Razz

Well, let me explain why I said what I said, taken one objection at a time.

In science (and by that I mean researching and copying blueprints), you're dead without a "personal" POS, because all the research lines are choke full, with waiting times around one month long. A newcomer could hardly afford or even be able to launch a POS in highsec, and you do not want the nice "we hunt defenceles POSes" guys finding you either. So you're stuck with the 1+ month waiting times... or you have to risk a trip to 0.0 with the blueprints... which is risky as hell (that is, you might actually have a chance with scouts, but that's about it).
Invention, first off, the skill prerequisite alone are quite high, and skills plus materials aren't very cheap either. Plus, it ties back into the copy slot issues from before... and the randomness means you HAVE to have a larger reserve pool, else you risk falling prey to a streak of failures when least expected.
All in all, research, copy and invention are NOT for beginners.
And for that matter, most things in T2 manufacture follow pretty much the same rules.
You need some decent skills and some serious funding, the very least.

Now, we come up on manufacture.
The difference from PE4 and PE5 might matter a lot in a trade hub, where margins are insanely tight, and in things like battleship construction the high-ME BPO owners have a rather distinct advantage.
But notice the specifics of the "manufacture" I have told them to do : SMALL items (cheap BPOs, short research time, can easily risk a trip to 0.0 in a shuttle to get some fast ME levels, or you can buy them already researched from one of the many "research corps" in EVE), and not in trade hubs (so the competition is not so nasty).
Sure, the volume is small, the profit isn't that great... but it's a lot more compared to what they could obtain in a busy trade hub... actually, would they try this in a trade hub, they'd be almost certainly losing money.
There's good margins to be had for people that are willing to go where not many manufacturers (nor traders) are going Wink

Ok, let's put it another way... highly dedicated industrial corps, with huge funds at their disposal and many varied production lines, and they barely break 10%, 15% profit margin if they're lucky in a hub... and the funny thing is, at least half of those profit margins actually come from trading (mineral supply contracts, bulk orders of manufactured good, etc), not actual manufacture.
It doesn't sound all that great, but when you take into consideration the sheer volumes involved, then it all adds up to a very nice sum.
However, for the poor beginner, such a profit margin is next to no use... even 20% of "next to nothing" is still insignificant.

So, yeah... beginners SHOULD stay away from science and industry until they are beginners no more... and if they just HAVE to do something in that field, small item T1 manufacture would be the way to go for beginners.
Once they're beginners no more, and they have serious funding and skills, they might think about it again... but not before.


P.S. Unless, of course, the "primary caveat" applies : they like the idea of it so much, that they don't care they're not actually making (or are downright losing) ISK.
If that's their idea of fun, and the reason for getting ISK is to have fun with it later... well, then, who cares they're losing ISK ?
That's what's supposed to happen when they're having fun Twisted Evil

Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:41:00 - [23]
 

You should put a bit more emphasis on salvaging. One Alloyed Tritanium Bar from an Angel Wreck will purchase and T1 fit any T1 frigate.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:48:00 - [24]
 

Well, salvaging is either part of the "kill mission" thing ("secondary"/"indirect" rewards), or part of the "questionable activity" thing (ninja-salvaging) Wink
It's like saying, let's put a bit more emphasis on looting wrecks Razz
The only (minor) differences are that you need a salvager to do it... and you don't get criminally flagged for doing it to "somebody else's wreck".

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:49:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jurgen Cartis
You should put a bit more emphasis on salvaging. One Alloyed Tritanium Bar from an Angel Wreck will purchase and T1 fit any T1 frigate.


And here I was throwing them at passing Nyx to make them swerve and hit stat.... ooooh, almost confessed Laughing

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.05.19 23:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Well, salvaging is either part of the "kill mission" thing ("secondary"/"indirect" rewards), or part of the "questionable activity" thing (ninja-salvaging) Wink
It's like saying, let's put a bit more emphasis on looting wrecks Razz
The only (minor) differences are that you need a salvager to do it... and you don't get criminally flagged for doing it to "somebody else's wreck".



belt ratting, arbitrator/vexor do this quite well, tractor and salvagers in high slots. and a faction implant will cover anywhere from a cruiser to a battleship t1 fit, low-grade crystal epsilon in .6 anyone? Laughing

although a cruiser is somewhat out of a nubs starting cash. but most frigates have 3 guns and a slot for a salvager Very Happy

also going around salvaging other players wrecks in belts.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.20 06:28:00 - [27]
 

Psssstt.... you spelled "beginner" wrong Wink

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.05.20 06:54:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Psssstt.... you spelled "beginner" wrong Wink


Shocked you're right... in the title, nevertheless... while spelling it right everywhere else Laughing
Emergency eraser fluid to the rescue !

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.05.20 07:01:00 - [29]
 

Glad to be helping out the noobs... if they need further instruction they can meet me in lowsec and I'll welcome them to Eve the proper way Very Happy

Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
Posted - 2008.05.20 14:55:00 - [30]
 

Excellent guide!
Read it at least twice if you are not a beginner.



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only