Posted - 2008.04.12 15:45:00 - [3]

 

Return our home world and we'll talk.

Posted - 2008.04.12 17:21:00 - [5]

 

Amusing, to say the least.

Posted - 2008.04.12 19:04:00 - [7]

 

What's past is past. I like to see these kinds of initiatives being taken.

Good luck miss.

Posted - 2008.04.12 20:40:00 - [9]

 

Edited by: Karanth on 12/04/2008 20:42:23

Originally by: Dex Nederland

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Edited by: Dex Nederland on 12/04/2008 16:13:56

Originally by: Charles Kuralt

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Return our home world and we'll talk.

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Do you, Kuralt, represent any Caldari interest other than your own personal interest?



M. Karanth, the Tennen crop failures could be linked to pirates, rival corporations, or even Federation agents. The investigation by Hyasyoda has not been completed and published. Caldari pod pilots combat Guristas daily. Simply agreeing to do what we do already does not make much sense.
Would you please outline a more detailed proposal?

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I've managed to get away for a moment, but time is still short.

Gallente and Caldari pilots fight the Serpentis and Guristas every day, I know. But we fight them on their terms, in our space. They call the shots, and while capsuleers almost always succeed at taking them out, we are being defensive.

I suggest we get, for lack of a better term, a giant honkin' fleet, visit Venal, take out a load of Guristas where they live, rattle their cages. Then we go over to Serpentis Prime, and show Sarpati what a massive combined fleet can do, and why he should leave us alone.

Then, I propose that, as long as there are pirates in our spacelanes, we keep visiting them, until they get the point.

Also, to the person with the homeworld statement: That is an issue, but not a relevant one to this proposal. The State and Federation have worked together before, on bigger things than this, for less gain, and Caldari Prime was not involved as a bargaining point there. If you feel we need another thread derailed into flames and bickering, make another for that purpose.

I'm looking at a way for both sides to come a bit closer, without killing each other. Try and meet me half-way here.

EDIT: Oh, and Verone. I have no issue with you, or your organization. In fact, I have some good deal of respect for it, and my proposal was not meant to include you or your people. If that image was given, I apologize.

Posted - 2008.04.12 21:17:00 - [11]

 

Originally by: Radcjk

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No. Not only, no, but hell no. Not enough backbone, not here. If you're going to take on major pirate syndicates your also going to get involved with their allied pod pilots, such as Veto and the Black Rabbits.

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I have to to agree with this and add that your effort will be rather futile, miss. Neither the Serpentis or the Guristas are going anywhere anytime soon.

You're of course, welcome to try. It's good business for us.

Posted - 2008.04.12 21:58:00 - [13]

 

The State is weak, and so is your pathetic 'Federation'. So long as there is trade, your isk continues to fuel Guristas ships, and we will continue to claim your cargoholds.

Ironic it is, two nations with some of the most corruption in their governments, and absolute hatred for one-another, squabble over secure trade. You will find only death in Venal, worms.

Evans

Posted - 2008.04.12 22:42:00 - [15]

 

Edited by: Sahriah BloodStone on 12/04/2008 22:44:48
Interesting proposal.

I believe however you have forgotten to address the issue of hatred between both races. If you want them to work together they must have a leader or a circle of leaders. Do you think that the pure ignorance in both races will just stand aside? They won't agree on anything. All it will do is hasten the already dark clouds that shadow both nations.

Originally by: Avel Kereka

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On another note, I'm shocked to see a political thread that doesn't involve the Amarr somehow. Do continue.

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Contrary to popular belief, amazingly Amarrians are not the most important race in the galaxy. All you care about is yourselves and how anything happening in our universe effects you or can be manipulated to your advantage.

Posted - 2008.04.12 23:12:00 - [17]

 

Quote:

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I don't equate Veto with the pirate factions, first off. There are hangers-on, and there are serious players in the games that they play, but I don't think that the pod-pilot contingents the Serpentis and Guristas hold are even close to half of a percent of their power, or reach. Those pilots, I'm sure, being practical, wouldn't be foolish enough to stay if their patron was broken, and scattered across known space as a few survivors.

EDIT: The pod-pilots have power, but compared to the factions they support, not enough to sway the results, I think.

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I wouldn't call loyalist or sympathetic pod pilots as mere hanger ons. How many times in the recent history of New Eden have pod pilots, sypathetic to one cause or another, shown themselves in mass at a gathering or fleet operation to help or hinder, for better or worse ?

The Serpentis carrier that was intercepted by pod pilots some time back, in Gallente space, in support of Federation personal, rings as bell.

So does Veto and their hand in the relief effort fiasco when a Caldari station was running riot and in dire need of food and supplies. Those are but two recent situations, one involving Veto.


And yes, the numbers of pod pilots are significantly far lower than standard vessels in the major factions of our world, but the percentage of power is far larger than you suspect or we generally give credit for. Every pod pilot is a privateer of sorts, a single man or woman whos wealth can purchase military grade vessels and use them as they see fit. As it stands now the only 'faction' to have technology superior to the pod pilot (out side of the Jove, who will not interfere) is Concord, and only due to the hybrid nature of their ships.

Concord can't even patrol all of Empire... and so that brings us to the next most powerful faction..the pod pilots., and all of their sympathies, hatreds, lusts, goals, politics, objectives, greed, nobility, and lack there of.

Not including capsuleers into the equation is folly, and proven by recent history and events.

Posted - 2008.04.13 06:13:00 - [19]

 

I wonder what my old brethren working with Corelum might have to say about this.

Posted - 2008.04.13 12:12:00 - [21]

 

Edited by: Verone on 13/04/2008 12:14:10

Originally by: "Karanth"

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We've seen that the Guristas were responsible for raiding Federation shipyards, and, with examination, I'm sure either they or the Serpentis are involved with the crop failures experienced by the Caldari. I propose that, if the respective Navies of both factions won't, that capsuleers loyal to them put aside differences, and take care of these increasingly brazen thugs.

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Originally by: "Karanth"

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EDIT: Oh, and Verone. I have no issue with you, or your organization. In fact, I have some good deal of respect for it, and my proposal was not meant to include you or your people. If that image was given, I apologize.

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I've bolded the items in your first quote to make them stand out a little more. Nothing could be more contradicting.

As Miss Sakoda has already pointed out, when you deal with a faction, you tend to deal with their capsuleer loyalists in most instances whether you like it or not.

Answer me some simple questions, If you can come up with the answers :

You have such an affinity for the State and the Federation, yet when the Federation breached State borders into Kassigainen with an Obelisk class full of "supplies" for the colony in distress that happened to contain a consignment of marines, where were the Home Guard? Where were the CEP to issue orders to protect state borders from a Military incursion from the Gallente border zone?

They were sat in denial, rejecting the "Assistance" of the Federation with weak words and pathetic border control, while they sat in orbit watching their people, the very citizens that make the state what it is die on the surface. It was a consignement of Gurista Loyalist pilots, and several state loyalists who had the balls to open fire who destroyed the Convoy and the Federal Military presence.

When the Interstellar Correspondants team blew the lid on the sheer filth and squalor that State run orphanages were forcing their children to live in, where was the State?

Trying to pull a lid over the embarassment of yet another failure on even the most basic principle to provide for it's next generation of citizens. In the end, it was the Sisters of Eve who appealed for assistance. Ironically it was a fleet of freighters from Veto Corp, and The Black Rabbits who provided salvation and long term care for thousands of malnourished and ill-cared for Caldari children.

Isn't it ironic that the Guristas have been responsible for feeding, clothing and taking care of the welfare of an entire generation of State Citizens? I'm sure that when the time comes for the State to fail in it's most basic responsibilities again, these instances will be remembered by those who's lives were saved on our watch.

The State continues to fail at even it's most basic duties to provide social services for it's citizens, and the Federation continues to lead the field as the corrupt joke it always has been, with a Senate full of twisted fools, taking backhanders from whomever pays highest.

It's no wonder that those who can leave the failing Sovreign powers behind and seek their freedom do so.

There are many organisations out there including ourselves, The Black Rabbits, Omerta Syndicate, The Star Fraction and Ghost Festival who will attest to the sheer number of non-capsuleer pilots and capsuleers alike who break free from their roots eventually, when they realise that their sovreign power continues to fail to provide for them.

Those who choose to be ruled by a "Government" which fails at providing for it's people, and can't see through even the most fundemental tasks are doomed to a life of misery and political servitude.

Given the current political climate, it would appear that war may be coming. It's going to be amusing to see which sovreign powers last the course.

War is not a great unifier, and never is. War exists to seperate the strong from the weak.

Posted - 2008.04.13 14:53:00 - [23]

 

Originally by: Nicoletta Mithra

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As some people long ago realized, this kind of social Darwinism leads into moral bankruptcy.

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You're talking to a pirate about morals?

You of all people should know better.

Ethan winks as his feed cuts out...

Posted - 2008.04.13 19:25:00 - [25]

 

A good proposal, marred utterly by your unwillingness to engage what I would say is a more serious threat to both empires - large-scale capsuleer pirate groups. Come on, you talk about how much damage piracy is doing to legitimate business interests and you then turn right around and try to appease Verone?

For the gods' sake, just fight the man. Sure, you might lose, but you're going to have to maintain a basic consistency of purpose if you want a single capsuleer to take you seriously.

Posted - 2008.04.14 11:33:00 - [27]

 

Mr Reeth, would you be referring to the Tennen crop failure or the attempt to steal a Megathron from Federal Navy mothballs?

In regard to the Tennen crop failure, the perpetrators have yet to be determined. Those arguing that it was Gallente involvement are only increasing the tension between the State and the Federation.

Tensions will continue to rise as the Federation and CONCORD interfere in State corporations' daily business. The Federation has placed restrictions on a State corporation based upon poorly documented entertainment expose. The SCC, which must be backed by the Federation in its investigation of Caldari corporations, threatens to restrict the free sale of shares and investment due to the concern of ill-earned money finding its way innocently into the accounts of legitimate businesses.

Ms. Karanth, while your aspiration are admirable, there are plenty of things for the loyal pod pilot communities to do without embarking on a whirlwind tour of Guristas and Serpentis territory, in order to increase security and combat piracy.

Posted - 2008.04.20 13:06:00 - [29]

 

Originally by: Eve Spair

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I'm all for some cooperation.
Dont hold todays people responsible for what their forefathers did.

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Not the people, I hold the Gallente race responsible for their oppression against us back in the federation, their atrocities against our people during the war and the fact that they still hold Caldari. Until those matters are solved, the only way I see of reconciliation is a retaliatory war and an open admission of defeat and submission of the federation authorities to the State.