| Author |
Topic |
Caldius Recturus |
Posted - 2007.11.16 19:10:00 - [ 1]
I was looking back at my decision to become an AF / HAC / Stealth Bomber pilot and realized that the road I'm deciding to walk down is rather expensive. I'm trying to figure out what skills I can skimp on in favor of getting into ships that can run level 3 missions successfully and quickly.
Perhaps the problem lies in my skill layout, or it may be in how I'm running my missions, but I'm finding that my AF (Hawk) is having exceptional problems getting level 3s done. Usually it is running around at about 510 m/s with its T2 AB, but I don't seem to get through the mission as unscathed as I would in a L2.
Looking at the way that the Hawk, Cerberus, and Maticore are all set up, I'm wondering whether or not to skip the HACs and go straight from AFs to SBs and then T2 BSs and Command Ships.
The question I bring to the forums here is three fold:
Firstly, what role do AFs (specifically the Hawk) bring to fleet PVP? Based on their med slots, it seems like they are designed to be fit with an MWD and be tacklers... but the four missile bays is suggestive of a greater potential (unless you fill them with rockets and blast away with high yield thorns).
Secondly, what roles do the HACs fill, if any? Would training up the skills to use the HACs just be a waste of time, or do they fill some kind of niche in fleet combat that BCs and BS's miss?
Lastly, when flying an AF, what support skills and weapon skills become important (for Caldari pilots)? Right now all my equipment is T2 but it seems that I still can not run a level 3 mission in the hawk to save myself.
Looking forward to hearing back from the community soon,
Caldius |
Daphne Oboe |
Posted - 2007.11.16 19:19:00 - [ 2]
I started a thread very similar to this a month or so ago, and the general consensus was:
1) AF's are currently without any real role, and everything they can do can be done better and cheaper by another ship
2) The hawk is unanimously known as the worst T2 ship in the game.
3) SBs are fun but overall pretty awful ships, considering they blow up instantly upon being targeted.
As for what skills you should focus on, well, I have a feeling people are going to tell you to decide on a better ship first.... |
darkmancer |
Posted - 2007.11.16 19:33:00 - [ 3]
1) AF's are supposed to be cruiser sized firepower in a tough frigate package. For fleet exscort (chasing off intys) or harassment.
Most people think they arn't good enough, and dont really justify they're cost
Also dont bother with stealth bombers - they are highly specialised, and costly.
The HAC do fill specilised roles in fleets, - they tend to be more useful in smaller nimble gangs though. Each HAC has its own niche, but they are expensive so hold off for a while while you get to know the game better.
The reason you are having problems running lvl 3 with an assault frig, is because they arnt designed to do that.
I'd sugest to you don't bother with hacs, commandships, battle ships etc. Go for a Battlecruiser called the drake.
With out any damage mods itll easily do 2-3 x the damage of your hawk, at 40km+
Use the forum search and lookup passive tanking - something the drake excells at. Use the drake as a stepping stone to what you want to do pvp/mission wise.
|
Caldius Recturus |
Posted - 2007.11.16 19:36:00 - [ 4]
Might we say then that the real role of the AF is to seem inticing to a new player and get him to train up Mechanic and Eng 5 (because he will need them later in his gaming career) and then drop out of effectiveness?
So the ship selection sucks (minus the manticore, I really want one and don't know why)... that's all good with me. I figure that I can fly BCs well enough, and once my Heavy Missile skills are high enough I will hop back into my Ferrox while trying to get the monies for a Drake. Knowing that this is the plan I probably will end up walking, what skills would be recomended? |
JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
|
Posted - 2007.11.16 19:49:00 - [ 5]
A Cerb would make a great level 3 mission boat, and a NH tears thru level 4s almost as quickly as a raven.
I would agree until you have the skills and isk to upgrade to the hac or the Nighthawk, grab a Drake and use that to do 3s to fund your training and ships.
Jon. |
darkmancer |
Posted - 2007.11.16 19:52:00 - [ 6]
Edited by: darkmancer on 16/11/2007 19:54:00
The ships selection doesnt some much suck as the ddrake is just the ship for the job you want to do.
Skills to train up;
heavy missiles,
shield recharge
shield amount
T2 mods you will want to use (skill for these)
Large shield extenders
Shield power relays
ballistic control units
Sell the ferox, it is sub par in almost every way to the drake.
If you sell the ferox and hawk you should have enough for a drake which out clases them both by miles.
Just use it to mission thou, don't pvp in it till you can afford to lose it (use something like a caracal instead).
The cerb is an awful ship to learn to mission in, over 3x the cost, and you get bugger all in insurance if you lose it. (although it be difficult thing to lose in a lvl 3). |
Shereza |
Posted - 2007.11.16 20:11:00 - [ 7]
Assault ships can do L3 missions but you likely will end up flying all 4 races' assault ships to do L3s effectively. Fly an ishkur against guristas, fly a hawk/harpy against serpentis, and so on.
I tried solo'ing a level 3 in my ishkur once and it felt like it did later when I tried to solo a level 4 in my drake. Slow. Safe (mostly) but slow.
If you want to have fun and play/mess around by all means use T2 frigates in L3 missions, but if you want to get them done quickly an with minimal hassle use battlecruisers or battleships. Even HASs will work I imagine, though as I fly an ishtar for my HAS I have some mission-running advantages over other HASs. |
Ulstan |
Posted - 2007.11.16 20:28:00 - [ 8]
Edited by: Ulstan on 16/11/2007 20:28:30
Assault Frigates in general are not very good, and the Hawk in particular is terrible.
Stealth bombers are very expensive, fragile, and specialised. I do not think they make good mission running ships.
Almost all Caldari gun boats before the Rokh are sub par - the drake is much better than the ferox, for example. The Moa is sub par and thus the eagle, based on the MoA, is also somewhat lacking compared to other HAC's.
The cerberus, and most HAC's of other races, are quite good. However, they are expensive and skill intensive, so I advise skipping them and just flying a drake for missions like everyone else does.
Slow, unimpressive DPS, and not terribly useful at PvP, but it does let you mission cheaply and safely and has quite good passive tanking abilities. Fly that while you train up your HAC or BS skills. |
Arvald
Caldari
Drunken Space Irish
|
Posted - 2007.11.16 20:40:00 - [ 9]
 Originally by: Caldius Recturus
Might we say then that the real role of the AF is to seem inticing to a new player and get him to train up Mechanic and Eng 5 (because he will need them later in his gaming career) and then drop out of effectiveness?
So the ship selection sucks (minus the manticore, I really want one and don't know why)... that's all good with me. I figure that I can fly BCs well enough, and once my Heavy Missile skills are high enough I will hop back into my Ferrox while trying to get the monies for a Drake. Knowing that this is the plan I probably will end up walking, what skills would be recomended?
actually if your fighting rats that dont use missles the manticore cna be a very very good 0.0 ninjaratter, just pick em off from 100+ km =D |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente |
Posted - 2007.11.16 22:18:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Shereza
Assault ships can do L3 missions but you likely will end up flying all 4 races' assault ships to do L3s effectively. Fly an ishkur against guristas, fly a hawk/harpy against serpentis, and so on.
I tried solo'ing a level 3 in my ishkur once and it felt like it did later when I tried to solo a level 4 in my drake. Slow. Safe (mostly) but slow.
If you want to have fun and play/mess around by all means use T2 frigates in L3 missions, but if you want to get them done quickly an with minimal hassle use battlecruisers or battleships. Even HASs will work I imagine, though as I fly an ishtar for my HAS I have some mission-running advantages over other HASs.
Gaius Sejanus runs all L3s in his Ishkur with ease. Of course, he's not particularly concerned about mission speed. As to the OP The AFs generally suck SBs are specialized, though the Manticore's 4 mids are nice The Flycatcher is nice but again, specialized Cov ops are specialized (dunno how the Heron compares to others) The Crow interceptor is a very good interceptor in certain roles (hit orbit, hit MWD, hit Javelin rockets, make tea) The Eagle is passable in a couple roles (but really needs a 5'th turret) The Cerberus is pretty nice for anti-nano work and some other roles The Falcon/Rook are nice for Ewar but a bit fragile The Nighthawk is a bit gimped PG-wise The Vulture will sit at a POS merely gang boosting everybody. |
08891 |
Posted - 2007.11.16 22:30:00 - [ 11]
I agree nearly 100% with the above comments.
One thing though: jav rockets on a crow are meh because of the velocity penalty. Much better to go with light missiles. |
Eardianm
Solstice Equilibrium
|
Posted - 2007.11.16 22:45:00 - [ 12]
I used to run all my lvl 3 missions in a Hawk (other than Massive Attack. never got it, but figured it would be rough going). BUT, that was using a gistii booster and DG boost amp, and rockets for their greater dps. It was more for kicks than efficiency. As mentioned above, Cerb would make a much better choice for running level 3s, or a fun/challenge for lvl 4s. For pvp, hawk is pretty meh. It can be setup for anti-inty with precision lights, but a shield buffered Caracal might do the job better. Depends on the enemy gang makeup, and if they are going to be able to crush the larger Caracal where a Hawk might be able to live with better resists and smaller size. Caracal is also cheaper, annoyingly enough.  |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2007.11.16 23:18:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Caldius Recturus
I was looking back at my decision to become an AF / HAC / Stealth Bomber pilot and realized that the road I'm deciding to walk down is rather expensive. I'm trying to figure out what skills I can skimp on in favor of getting into ships that can run level 3 missions successfully and quickly.
Perhaps the problem lies in my skill layout, or it may be in how I'm running my missions, but I'm finding that my AF (Hawk) is having exceptional problems getting level 3s done. Usually it is running around at about 510 m/s with its T2 AB, but I don't seem to get through the mission as unscathed as I would in a L2.
Looking at the way that the Hawk, Cerberus, and Maticore are all set up, I'm wondering whether or not to skip the HACs and go straight from AFs to SBs and then T2 BSs and Command Ships.
The question I bring to the forums here is three fold:
Firstly, what role do AFs (specifically the Hawk) bring to fleet PVP? Based on their med slots, it seems like they are designed to be fit with an MWD and be tacklers... but the four missile bays is suggestive of a greater potential (unless you fill them with rockets and blast away with high yield thorns).
Secondly, what roles do the HACs fill, if any? Would training up the skills to use the HACs just be a waste of time, or do they fill some kind of niche in fleet combat that BCs and BS's miss?
Lastly, when flying an AF, what support skills and weapon skills become important (for Caldari pilots)? Right now all my equipment is T2 but it seems that I still can not run a level 3 mission in the hawk to save myself.
Looking forward to hearing back from the community soon,
Caldius
I mostly fly Manticores, Flycatchers and Harpys. I have fun in them, so it doesn't matter much to me what the other races' equivalents are like. Harpy: I wouldn't fly it solo, but when you're with a gang, it's murder on hostile small ships and pods. Gauss Prototype 150mms + faction ammo work well for me - I get 70Km+ optimals with Iron. Flycatcher: well a dictor is a dictor. I'm new to them, so I'll let others comment. Manticore: my favouritest ship! Think of situations where a quick-locking, high-alpha ship that no-one's expecting to see might be useful: that's all I'll say. |
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