| Author |
Topic |
northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation |
Posted - 2007.11.04 20:16:00 - [ 61]
Edited by: northwesten on 04/11/2007 20:16:25 Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: northwesten
ok cool simple good! I think i go for IPO when i am ready. Thanks for explaining this.
Tho another question what can make this more complicated? wages and bills etc? or keeping track on performance?
/me starting to think he sould ask this in EVE New Citizens Q&A LOL
I
Keeping track of performance is indeed one of the most complicated things in running an IPO, at least from my perspective.
Other complicated things are paying out a percentage of profits in divs, another percentage investing in the corp to increase NAV. Then you have to decide if you pay out divs based on initial investment or based on NAV. It "should" be based on NAV imo, but it is far more complicated and confusing to do so.
You also have to decide if you want to offer a buyback, at what level you will offer a buyback, etc.
Listing your performance and communicating properly can be complicated too. Deciding what information you want to give out, what information you can realistically give out, and what information may hurt your profit making abilities if it were to be given out.
Of course there is also getting your IPO listed on the two existing EVE stock exchanges and also deciding if you can gain any benefit by working with E-bank and some new features they may offer.
mm I see! I have to keep an eye out on how people share there Reports. For me tho i try and keep it simple as possable. Is there a recommended tool you know to help with this? A spread sheet or some kind? For me i keep it simple as possable with cost vs profit cost: office rent buying supply's (food and beer) / Equipment (dancers) docking fee's Profit How much i made. 10% How much share holders made. 70% How much company has made keep 5% corp members have made 5% Loss: lost to pirate attack. Lost to miss management. lost ot competitive market Profits spite between us. Thats what i was thinking. I take it this would be good enough for a new coming as well? I think this week i draw up a plan! I pretty much enjoying this more than pvp :) |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.04 20:18:00 - [ 62]
Originally by: Shadarle
Of course there is also getting your IPO listed on the two existing EVE stock exchanges and also deciding if you can gain any benefit by working with E-bank and some new features they may offer.
don't bmbe and fury bank also offer loans? not sure what other features ebank might/might not offer. just throwing it out there that this new ebank thing isn't the only game in town. |
northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation |
Posted - 2007.11.04 20:19:00 - [ 63]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
i've come up with is real life hookers, and i'm pretty sure that's not legal, unless maybe i move to nevada.
I moving there like now! |
Shar Tegral |
Posted - 2007.11.04 20:22:00 - [ 64]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
another post from another person high up in ebank in yet another thread, which contributed absolutely nothing and was just a whiny ***** troll. >snip< to someone that actually posted something other than ******ed ebank director-level whining --
Listen mate, just because the profanity filter takes the words out it is still flaming and it is still cursing. Personally I'd prefer it if you didn't do either at me. I don't care what your opinion is of me you don't need to use profanity in every statement you make about me. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.04 20:24:00 - [ 65]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
another post from another person high up in ebank in yet another thread, which contributed absolutely nothing and was just a whiny ***** troll. >snip< to someone that actually posted something other than ******ed ebank director-level whining --
Listen mate, just because the profanity filter takes the words out it is still flaming and it is still cursing. Personally I'd prefer it if you didn't do either at me. I don't care what your opinion is of me you don't need to use profanity in every statement you make about me.
can't you just pm me? i figured you, of all people, would have something to add about the 'incentive' to get great profit-makers to go public. step away from the hate, and contribute.  |
northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation |
Posted - 2007.11.04 20:39:00 - [ 66]
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.04 20:42:00 - [ 67]
|
Adrimar
Hellfire-Empire
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 02:56:00 - [ 68]
As several people have said, the really good people who need large amounts of isk can probably tap friends who trust them for it, knowing that it will be payed back as quickly as possible, mabye even with a little bit extra on top. They don't need to beg on these forums for isk and subject themselves to attacks from posters who believe that they are not getting enough for their isk, not getting enough information or whatever.
Also, you have to keep in mind that while you are harping on percentages, these mean very little. I have a module on which I make over 50% profit on bad days and the prices are depressed. The problem is that the actual isk made is a pittance. Percentages mean little without knowing what they are applied to.
In closing I find that you are approaching what you think is a problem wrong. You should get the shareholders of the IPOs you have invested in on your side and then approach each holder with a solid majority at your back and attempt to get them to change. Saying here that there are some IPOs that are below the "industry standard" and that they should raise their rates will probably get nothing done. And most IPO holders will probably point to their business plan and tell you that they are delivering exactly what they promised. It might just be that their pay is everything extra that they can make over the base rate they pay out, and if so, I wouldn't pay out more than I have to either.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 03:55:00 - [ 69]
What do I like in my shares that pay dividends? Doesn't really matter, my dividends pay one thing and one thing only, my GTC's. As long as I make enough to buy a GTC every 90 days I don't care if it's 2% or 20%.
If you're looking for a different style of Corporation and shares you should check out BSACC. There was lots of discussion in the Board of Directors about what is best in line with the previous "dividends" of shares and the current plan and variations in the middle.
As a result the shares I own in the Mineral Reserver went up a lot in the first month. And I consider this how I would use "shares" if I was to open an IPO.
If I opened an IPO I would collect the capital set the share price according the ISK collected, then expand the share value based on the profits of the month.
E.g. Shares start at 10,000 isk each.
Profit for the month is 8.7%, share price is now 10,870 ISK, if the investor wants to cash in the shares they cash in for that value. As the corporation grows so does your investment. The corporation doesn't pay out dividends so any profits it makes it keeps for growth, which allows it to grow faster.
And I'm not just saying this because I'm on the board, I'm saying this because I very much like that style of investment. And the share value only goes down if there is a loss for the month which for any corp is possible but unlikely due to people not willing to make a loss on something.
Maybe the question that needs to be asked is why is the standard currently "Must pay dividends and have shares be the corporate ISK sink." Imagine if FIN and FIN-U that didn't pay ISK but added profits to share prices? They'd be worth 20,000 and 3,000,000 respectively now. Lets face it every ISK paid in dividends is ISK the corporation can't use to make profit. |
Shadarle |
Posted - 2007.11.05 05:03:00 - [ 70]
Originally by: SencneS
Maybe the question that needs to be asked is why is the standard currently "Must pay dividends and have shares be the corporate ISK sink." Imagine if FIN and FIN-U that didn't pay ISK but added profits to share prices? They'd be worth 20,000 and 3,000,000 respectively now. Lets face it every ISK paid in dividends is ISK the corporation can't use to make profit.
And if more corps did this they'd all become greater and greater risks of becoming scams as they'd be holding ALL of the money. Dividends are good because at least if there is eventually a scam at least people got some of the money back. Plus it keeps profit percentage high. As a corp increases in value the percentage profit will drop each time. So for investors dividends are far better than NAV increases. For the corp owners NAV increases are better. |
SiJira |
Posted - 2007.11.05 21:28:00 - [ 71]
Originally by: Shadarle
The people who are great at making money have no need for outside financing. Why would anyone want to pay out 15% when they could just keep it all for themselves or even pay out 10% on a loan? Or just pay out 8-9% in an IPO and still be considered to be a great IPO by our standards today?
so you dont think people who are great at making money want to improve the market in general? you dont think people who are great at making money dont start the game that way with very little cash and need a jump start? |
SiJira |
Posted - 2007.11.05 21:30:00 - [ 72]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: SencneS
Maybe the question that needs to be asked is why is the standard currently "Must pay dividends and have shares be the corporate ISK sink." Imagine if FIN and FIN-U that didn't pay ISK but added profits to share prices? They'd be worth 20,000 and 3,000,000 respectively now. Lets face it every ISK paid in dividends is ISK the corporation can't use to make profit.
And if more corps did this they'd all become greater and greater risks of becoming scams as they'd be holding ALL of the money.
Dividends are good because at least if there is eventually a scam at least people got some of the money back. Plus it keeps profit percentage high. As a corp increases in value the percentage profit will drop each time. So for investors dividends are far better than NAV increases. For the corp owners NAV increases are better.
the dividends an the nav increases are both good for the investors a nav increase would be bad for an investor if the investor tried to buy the share after the nav increase otherwise all things are equal |
Shadarle |
Posted - 2007.11.06 00:05:00 - [ 73]
Originally by: SiJira
Originally by: Shadarle
The people who are great at making money have no need for outside financing. Why would anyone want to pay out 15% when they could just keep it all for themselves or even pay out 10% on a loan? Or just pay out 8-9% in an IPO and still be considered to be a great IPO by our standards today?
so you dont think people who are great at making money want to improve the market in general?
you dont think people who are great at making money dont start the game that way with very little cash and need a jump start?
1. I think most people who start IPO's do so because they need outside financing to fund an idea. Very few run IPO's when they are already rich. In fact I don't know any really rich people who started IPO's off hand. 2. Perhaps they do, but if they are new they don't have the trust or anyway to prove they are good at making money. So they can start small with a small IPO, but small IPO's are easy to earn large profits on so they don't always prove much. By the time they've run a small IPO and have done some personal trading if they are truly good they will have a decent level of ISK. From this point refer to 1 again. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.06 12:38:00 - [ 74]
this
but i have no doubt that since i agree with that, the two baby trolls from ebank will either flame it, or derail yet another thread with their weak-ass lameness. |
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 14:15:00 - [ 75]
Ahh of course. Ezoran has never gone off-topic or trolled another person's forum post  (for the record, I didn't post anything negative in this thread, I assume you were referring too the Shar post. Can you refute the point I made in my first line Ezoran?) |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.06 14:35:00 - [ 76]
Originally by: Ricdic
trolling yet again, and failing, just looking like MORE whine
too bad you can't state anything constructive. i think PP's plan, from just what he stated, is something that can (and may very well) blow the lid off the "standard" div we see. especially if it's going to involve 4 separate ventures, each passing isk back and forth as needed. i think we'd touched on something like that a time or two in this thread, or perhaps another, and the trust factor (i.e. different people running different public ventures, trusting each other with 10s of billions) was what was theoretically the hold up on something of that magnitude materializing. oh and this is nothing but a derailing troll, by the quoted person in this thread. yup, just totally innocent and not ****ing up la vista's thread to whine like a ***** at all. nope, mr ebank is always da best. yeah, invest in ebank, he's a great guy.  |
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.11.06 15:24:00 - [ 77]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
oh and this is nothing but a derailing troll, by the quoted person in this thread. yup, just totally innocent and not ****ing up la vista's thread to whine like a ***** at all. nope, mr ebank is always da best.
yeah, invest in ebank, he's a great guy.
Absolutely. And for those checking the link, look 2 posts above that where Ezoran is the actual troll to which I responded. Nice work destroying yet another thread to which you actually had a good point when started. Shar knocked it back a few notches but you finished the job. Derailing your own thread 4tw. |
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