| Author |
Topic |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.02 12:10:00 - [ 1]
there's no PMs on this board (which is a good thing, all things goon considered), and i don't want to derail dusk blade's thread.  Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 02/11/2007 09:52:04
hey cofr isn't the lowest shareholder~!! guess it's time to throw up some buy orders someplace and hope someone will sell. 
It's kinda funny that the most vocal on "speaking on behalf of the investor" is also an extremely minor player in the investment scheme. Ezoran what shares do you own and how many? Or are they all corporate purchases?
in order to have a valid opinion, i must invest oodles into each and every public stock available? i did state, not long ago, and twice, that i invest in order to help support the market, not because investing can make me more isk than i can on my own. i may not be the 100billionaire that so many others are; and i have not reached the "i have 100sbillions that are laying around doing nothing" point. aside from Jerikia's R-E and Bunsen's original venture, i've essentially, thrown away all the isk i've invested, because it's only making me 2-15% interest monthly. no offense intended in that statement, i just don't see why i should tie up my resources in a 4%/month profit scheme, when i can make that much daily afk playing. i've seen a number of people make posts questioning public corps, who (in the post) state they own no shares of said corporation. does the fact they own nothing, invalidate truths they post? does the fact they own nothing make lies (if they post lies) any less vicious? i see people who control billions of other people's isk, make statements that are outright lies, yet no one calls them on it, and they're considered "pillars of the community". why? because if not called on it, then you obviously didn't lie, seems to be the mentality. i guess i don't understand the question. i'm obviously not going to divulge how much of any one share i have, since i have stated i own corps and alts on which i keep shares. why? it's a little game i play and i like to compare numbers. or, if anyone wants to say i have dark motives, that's cool too. i mean, dark shikari made a slam at me one time, saying wtf is it to me, since i own no aatp shares, when, at that time, THIS toon, held aatp shares, and had held at least some shares since the aatp ipo. seems in his mind, you should have to own SOME shares in order to have a public opinion. i don't agree with that, but if anyone cares to challenge that i own shares of a public venture to which i am critical, feel free to ask, and i'll be more than happy to say i do and probably tell where they're located. as for the question itself, i'm not going to say exactly how much i own of any public venture. if all corps DID release shareholder names/assets, i'd be one of those that you went "damn, you don't have much of anything". as i've stated, alts can circumvent every last part/portion/parcel of this game and i don't think that laziness should be rewarded. if anyone wants to have discourse on any of this, feel free. but if i lie or pervert the truth, i want you to call me on it. if you lie/pervert the truth, don't whine like a ***** when i call you a lying ****. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.02 12:28:00 - [ 2]
Quote:
-R.E- - AATP - AMESH - BMBE - BSACC - C-P-H - C-R-A - CAP4U - EIBI - EMFI - ESINV - FEIF - FHOLD - FIMD - FIN - FIN-U - FIRD - FRPB - ISKEY - ISOTE - ISSBO - ISSCA - ISSMO - ISSO - ISSPO - LMTA - MNX - N-T - NCIB - NTG - OCCI - OMRS - OPT-M - OT-TS - P-TEC - P.C.T - PIF - PRIG - PSRS - PZI - RDST - RRRRT - SHMEC - SPP - T2AHL - TCCS - tech7 - TINY. - UEMA - UMTA2 - UTS - XANO - ZERO.
the above lists past/present publicly traded ventures. not all of them, but it lists a number. if the public-shares "program" were about double that, it'd be a nice start. it'd support multiple mutual funds and exchanges alike. |
Shar Tegral |
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:05:00 - [ 3]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
if anyone wants to have discourse on any of this, feel free. but if i lie or pervert the truth, i want you to call me on it. if you lie/pervert the truth, don't whine like a ***** when i call you a lying ****.
The problem with you, as I see it, is that you tend to call anyone with an opinion that does not fall in line with your own some form of liar/pervert. That is intellectually dishonest and makes you a conversational pervert. Thus I often look at whatever tear/rant/flame that you've posted as nothing but a pack of lies laced with just enough truth so you can say, "But is this is lie?" You are a demagogue and thus while you may make alot of noise you have little worth hearing. As a generalization that is. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.02 13:12:00 - [ 4]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
if anyone wants to have discourse on any of this, feel free. but if i lie or pervert the truth, i want you to call me on it. if you lie/pervert the truth, don't whine like a ***** when i call you a lying ****.
The problem with you, as I see it, is that you tend to call anyone with an opinion that does not fall in line with your own some form of liar/pervert. That is intellectually dishonest and makes you a conversational pervert. Thus I often look at whatever tear/rant/flame that you've posted as nothing but a pack of lies laced with just enough truth so you can say, "But is this is lie?" You are a demagogue and thus while you may make alot of noise you have little worth hearing. As a generalization that is.
ok, a lie is quoting something, saying it's anti-competitive behaviour when the post/thread which was quoted was NOT anti-competitive behaviour (as shown by a detailed definition w/examples of anti-competitive behaviour). now, if i thought you were stupid, or unwittingly mis-using the term, i could just say you were wrong. i don't believe you are stupid, but you COULD have been mis-using the term. as such, i believe i did put a caveat that you may not be lying. that is the type of thing i will call a lie. dark shikari slamming me and stating that i held no aatp shares, at a time when i (on this toon) did hold aatp shares and dark shikari had access (at that time) to look at who all owned what in aatp (via his alt running aatp), that also is a lie. as i stated, feel free to show me perverting the truth and i'll be more than happy to apologize publicly. calling me a liar (in any form), without having anything to back it up, is a lie. i normally say lie when i've quoted the lie. |
Shar Tegral |
Posted - 2007.11.02 15:24:00 - [ 5]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
was NOT anti-competitive behaviour (as shown by a detailed definition w/examples of anti-competitive behaviour). {... ...} you COULD have been mis-using the term. {... ...} that is the type of thing i will call a lie.
Showing some examples does not define all possible situations that the words "anti competitive" can be applied to here. This is a fine example of how you pervert the truth even if you may not be consciously aware of the fact that you are doing it. Simply put, you are close minded and do not recognize that all possible situations that you see are not all possible situations in truth. Intellectual arrogance is the term I think. Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
as i stated, feel free to show me perverting the truth and i'll be more than happy to apologize publicly. calling me a liar (in any form), without having anything to back it up, is a lie.
Wrong, it is not a lie just an unverifiable statement. There is a key difference that can be a fine line or worlds apart. In my experience people who hide behind the "prove it" argument are full of crap because they know that there is no such thing as 100% proof. Not that they'll agree is proof. COAD is a fine example of that yes? I doubt, however, that in the face of my pointing out how you pervert situations and label your statements as "truth" (As you see it of couse  ) that you'll be apologetic. IMHO I'd rather you just took a few moments to try out some decorum. We all lose our cool every so often but you are one of those who seem to find it every so often. I much prefer those times as there is little need for the hot words and/or trolling you like to do when bored. As you put it if I remember correctly. |
jongalt |
Posted - 2007.11.02 15:36:00 - [ 6]
while i may not agree with ezorans posts - or his "posting style" - i happen to think he would be loads of fun to drink and play poker with...  -jg. |
Shar Tegral |
Posted - 2007.11.02 16:00:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: jongalt
i happen to think he would be loads of fun to drink and play poker with...
Agreed  |
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 22:28:00 - [ 8]
Edited by: Ricdic on 03/11/2007 00:23:26Edited by: Ricdic on 02/11/2007 22:30:49 Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
in order to have a valid opinion, i must invest oodles into each and every public stock available?
Not at all. However one could argue that in order to be able to enforce your opinion as fact one must have a realistic amount of experience in said investments. Saying your opinion is one thing, but as you and everyone else who reads your posts knows, you refuse to be shown up as incorrect. You are one of those "I am always right" people who ignores reason, common sense and true facts, and manipulates false information to suit your needs  Quote:
i did state, not long ago, and twice, that i invest in order to help support the market, not because investing can make me more isk than i can on my own. i may not be the 100billionaire that so many others are; and i have not reached the "i have 100sbillions that are laying around doing nothing" point.
So as one of the minority investors on the market, why would any public CEO listen to any of your opinions in regards to things like showing shareholder lists etc? In regards to voting power, you are at the bottom of the food chain. Quote:
i've seen a number of people make posts questioning public corps, who (in the post) state they own no shares of said corporation. does the fact they own nothing, invalidate truths they post? does the fact they own nothing make lies (if they post lies) any less vicious?
I found this quite funny. I don't think you own shares in C-R-A or any of the other ventures I run, and yet when disucssing publishing shareholder names you have called myself a bad ceo and not working in my investors best interests, whilst ignoring that 95% of said shareholders DIDN'T agree with you. Anyway the reason for my first post was that I found it funny someone trying to be your investor watchdog doesn't even bother investing themselves. It's like having a degree/education in cooking, but having your local McDonalds kitchen hand try to tell you how to cook a steak. Quote:
i see people who control billions of other people's isk, make statements that are outright lies, yet no one calls them on it, and they're considered "pillars of the community". why? because if not called on it, then you obviously didn't lie, seems to be the mentality.
The famous "proof or stfu" comes to mind  Can you proide some examples of these 'blatant' lies? edit: Removed typo that Ezoran decided to quote to in some way invalidate my claims?? OMG, YOU NUB YOU MADE TYPO!! |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.02 22:44:00 - [ 9]
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 02/11/2007 22:52:36
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 02/11/2007 22:51:47
odd, i've admitted i was wrong on the occasions i've been wrong. i normally choose to pick discussions where i support the side that is not in the wrong.
nice to know your "opinion" though.
feel free to prove that i'm a minor investor on the market. please do. this "forum alt" as someone you love and trust has referred to me as, is what? a year and a half old? i'm pretty sure that's old enough to have accumulated a little bit of isk. oh, but wait, i've already said my goodies are spread out. so please do account for all my share-holding activity, i'd love to see the list of names/corps. thanks again for your very well-informed opinion, founder of ebank.
ricdic, there was a day you spoke to me when one of your ventures was shutting down. you advised me it was shutting down and there was a buy order on egse. selective memory much? check your shareholders, i'm willing to bet cofr still holds something that you're running. again, very well informed information here from someone running so many public ventures. i'm quite impressed. batting a thousand so far, bub.
then you're back to "oh i see exactly how much you're investing" and "the amount of your investment = the amount of your knowledge". aren't you the one that got burned out and dropped out of the game for months because you'd taken on too much responsibility? and that was with what? one venture? how many ventures + ebank are you involved with now? notice, how you've read, and i can only assume, comprehended that i do spread out my investments, but i choose to not invest the majority of the isk i handle in other people's ventures. yet you post as if i have no shares of anything. how many people invested in this relatively unknown dusk blade? was it hundreds? looking at the shareholder list... nope. notice, how everything i'm mentioning about you, is actual fact. not me reading something and distorting it. but i see that you and shar are playing with the same "truth".
then your post gets jacked, the quote falls off or something. i did show an example of dark shikari and of shar. i didn't mention the time shar kinda messed up an ipo by calling it a scam, posting on the crime/punishment forum and THEN after others pointed out, he realized all his research was on a different toon or was just wrong, i forget which. i think that ipo did end up not getting off the ground. did it? my memory is hazy. nice to know that someone who jumps the gun and presents incorrect information and screams scam, is a trusted member of ebank. so you did kinda quote the proof you asked for. yourself have stated you're a market forum ***** and you rarely miss threads. did you miss the ds and shar comments?
in closing, you have some points in your post. doesn't seem to be very well thought out however. because, um, i've just seen well, incorrect opinion. but please please point out all the instances that i've been wrong, to which you refer. all i read was a lot of whine.
quite impressive from someone who wipes their ass with isk. so, other than being one of like what, 30 investors, in dusk blade; and my actually having owned shares in aatp at a time when dark shikari was saying he had looked and saw that i had none -- what other ventures do you know of that i currently have isk invested in?
i could post about how many billions i trade/manufacture/whatever. or maybe it's just a few thousand? unlike others, i don't feel the need to go *i owns a lot of **** and that makes me smerrt*. i'd rather someone look at the points i make/posts i make and think for themselves without going "damn, that guy has a ****load of monies, he must know what he's talking about"; because, that and/or "hey, that guy has played for 3+ years" being used as GOOD reasons for listening to someone on items to invest in... well, that's idiotic thinking and deserving of being shot down and shat on. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.02 22:48:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Ricdic
Edited by: Ricdic on 02/11/2007 22:30:49
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
in order to have a valid opinion, i must invest oodles into each and every public stock available?
Not at all. However one could argue that in order to be able to enforce your opinion as fact one must have a realistic amount of experience in said investments. Saying your opinion is one thing, but as you and everyone else who reads your posts knows, you refuse to be shown up as incorrect. You are one of those "I am always right" people who ignores reason, common sense and true facts, and manipulates false information to suit your needs
Quote:
i did state, not long ago, and twice, that i invest in order to help support the market, not because investing can make me more isk than i can on my own. i may not be the 100billionaire that so many others are; and i have not reached the "i have 100sbillions that are laying around doing nothing" point.
So as one of the minority investors on the market, why would any public CEO listen to any of your opinions in regards to things like showing shareholder lists etc? In regards to voting power, you are at the bottom of the food chain.
Quote:
i've seen a number of people make posts questioning public corps, who (in the post) state they own no shares of said corporation. does the fact they own nothing, invalidate truths they post? does the fact they own nothing make lies (if they post lies) any less vicious?
I found this quite funny. I don't think you own shares in C-R-A or any of the other ventures I run, and yet when disucssing publishing shareholder names you have called myself a bad ceo and not working in my investors best interests, whilst ignoring that 95% of said shareholders DIDN'T agree with you.
Anyway the reason for my first post was that I found it funny someone trying to be your investor watchdog doesn't even bother investing themselves. It's like having a degree/education in cooking, but having your local McDonalds kitchen hand try to tell you how to cook a steak.
Quote:
i see people who control billions of other people's isk, make statements that are outright lies, yet no one calls them on it, and they're considered "pillars of the community". why? because if not called on it, then you obviously didn't lie, seems to be the mentality.
The famous "proof or stfu" comes to mind Can you proide some examples of these 'blatant' lies?
i mean, dark shikari made a slam at me one time, saying wtf is it to me, since i own no aatp shares, when, at that time, THIS toon, held aatp shares, and had held at least some shares since the aatp ipo. seems in his mind, you should have to own SOME shares in order to have a public opinion. i don't agree with that, but if anyone cares to challenge that i own shares of a public venture to which i am critical, feel free to ask, and i'll be more than happy to say i do and probably tell where they're located.
To close, as I said before having an opinion is fine. Enforcing your opinion as a fact when you obviously have very little investing force or you bother investing in the first place. Why would I as a CEO bother to try meeting your requirements (showing shareholder lists) if you either don't bother investing, or invest less money than I wipe my ass with each day?
just wanted to quote you. |
Shar Tegral |
Posted - 2007.11.02 23:16:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
just wanted to quote you.
Silly practice imho no offense intended. Eve Search is pretty good and capturing posts in the raw original. But I guess it is good back up. |
Letias
Caldari
Poofdinkles
|
Posted - 2007.11.02 23:58:00 - [ 12]
I really was going to go all Ezoran Dublaidd on you but I don't think anyone takes you seriously now so it won't change anything. Before you say it cause I know its going through your head as you read that last sentence, no ones takes me seriously either but my words "I don't think anyone..." means it is an opinion and I am allowed to hold as many of those as I want as are you. Just don't go espousing about how you are right and people don't call you when you are not so it always looks like you are. It is getting irritating. Oh and.. I do feel someone needs to call you on this one however. Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
in closing, you have some points in your post. doesn't seem to be very well thought out however. because, um, i've just seen well, incorrect opinion
Yea.. maybe they don't think the same as you but if you see it as an opinion then you are admitting that it is what they think not what is true. Originally by: Oxford English Dictionary Online
1. a. An act or instance of lying; a false statement made with intent to deceive; a criminal falsehood. Phrase, to tell ({dag}formerly to make) a lie. {dag}Also, without lie, no lie, truly (often as an expletive in ME. poetry; cf. without fable)
In mod. use, the word is normally a violent expression of moral reprobation, which in polite conversation tends to be avoided, the synonyms falsehood and untruth being often substituted as relatively euphemistic..
I thought that might be helpful for this "conversation"  |
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:20:00 - [ 13]
Hey, I had a set couple of questions I asked you. You don't have the balls to answer those questions regardless of how much you scream out that people's shareholdings should be viewable. I actually had a full response written out quoting all of your stuff and responding but then I had a think about it. I realised you hadn't bothered answering any of my direct questions, all you had done was tried turning everything around to get out of having to answer. So, I will ask you again. As someone who has shareholders best interests at heart, what kind of share portfolio do you field? Are you in a valid position to make informed decisions on behalf of other shareholders? Don't forget to ignore how C-R-A voted against you by 95%, but lets see that shares listing. Hell, I will start things off showing mine. Obviously I am just some hot-headed CEO who shafts all his investors. Here, take a look at how much of a hypocrite I amI look forward to you showing that you aren't just a troll, that you do actually in some way support the stockmarket. I am not stupid though, I fully expect you to deflect the statement away from yourself again. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:30:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Letias
Yea.. maybe they don't think the same as you but if you see it as an opinion then you are admitting that it is what they think not what is true.
help me out on this one. from your statement (and the post surrounding it), if i state that someone has an incorrect opinion (i.e. it is an opinion and it is wrong) then i'm lying or wrong in that. that is why you put the definition, right? following that to it's logical conclusion, would it be safe to say, that in context, your meaning is that because it is an "opinion", it is correct? even if this correctness is only in the eyes of the opinion holder? and that validates it as a truth to the general populace? i have no problem with people pointing out my booboos, there's plenty to be had. but don't be all crybaby when i point out yours. saying "i didn't lie" doesn't mean it's not a lie. saying "oh you misinterpret me" is fine, if it is indeed someone taking statements out of context. someone merely stating, "you took that out of context" does not mean it was taken out of context. so educate me on your line of reasoning; that because someone believes an opinion of their own is correct, that makes it fact? this is sort of why i try to provide factual points to support my opinions/hypotheses. it's great to have opinions (isso is doing crappy), it's better to have facts (isso stated it would do blah blah blah, in it's paperwork/monthly reporting and they're not doing it). it's also nice to have opinions supported by facts. (isso is doing crappy because sdlfksdjflsdfjsd) but i rather enjoy all the emotion that gets thrown around and because it's from a "respected" person, it's taken as legit, no questions asked. to bother me, this would have to turn into a 200+ page threadaught of undulating hatred. and then i'd probably just laugh until i peed myself, like, actually peed myself, while reading it. so i guess it wouldn't be so much "bother" as "amuse endlessly". opinions are great, most are the source of tons of laughter. facts however, are things that are notsomuch supported by X person's opinion, as they are points that can't be disputed "you posted XYZ". now, if XYZ is taken out of context, you simply go, "here's the rest of the post surrounding statement XYZ, to show the proper context in which it was meant". the incorrect thing would be "nuhhuh i did not". to err is human, to laugh is well, awesomeness incarnate. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:31:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
just wanted to quote you.
Silly practice imho no offense intended. Eve Search is pretty good and capturing posts in the raw original. But I guess it is good back up.
i agree, it is silly, just making a point. |
Benvie
Benvie Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:32:00 - [ 16]
What he is saying is that an opinion is an opinion. It's not a fact and it can't be debated. If I say "I think you're ugly" then you can't argue with it. It's an opinion. There's no true/false to it. You may have a different opinion, but neither is more correct than the other. |
Letias
Caldari
Poofdinkles
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:36:00 - [ 17]
|
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:38:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Ricdic
Hey, I had a set couple of questions I asked you. You don't have the balls to answer those questions regardless of how much you scream out that people's shareholdings should be viewable. I actually had a full response written out quoting all of your stuff and responding but then I had a think about it.
I realised you hadn't bothered answering any of my direct questions, all you had done was tried turning everything around to get out of having to answer. So, I will ask you again. As someone who has shareholders best interests at heart, what kind of share portfolio do you field? Are you in a valid position to make informed decisions on behalf of other shareholders?
Don't forget to ignore how C-R-A voted against you by 95%, but lets see that shares listing. Hell, I will start things off showing mine. Obviously I am just some hot-headed CEO who shafts all his investors.
Here, take a look at how much of a hypocrite I am
I look forward to you showing that you aren't just a troll, that you do actually in some way support the stockmarket. I am not stupid though, I fully expect you to deflect the statement away from yourself again.
i'm curious, (here's me deflecting attention away from myself, by the by, all corporate purchases made by corporations i own, are fully funded by myself, or shares are simply transferred over, oops, guess i answered that question. oh, and have you, and others, posted all the shares you own on all your accounts/alts/et ceteras? i love the whine. damn, was that not good enough to directly answer both of your questions?) anywho... i'm curious, as a ceo of a public venture, do you make it a habit to hold votes as to what BPOs/POSs/whatevers you should utilize in your day-to-day operations? or what your mid- and long- term focus should be? if not, then why not? i mean, if you're holding a vote on whether shareholder names should be released, what else are you/are you not holding votes on? i don't want you to get burned out, now that you're running 4times+ as many ventures as you did when you last were burned out. so take deep breaths, inhale, exhale. but i answered your questions. doesn't matter if you answer mine or not really. post more though, i like it. |
FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire |
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:41:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Ricdic
Hey, I had a set couple of questions I asked you. You don't have the balls to answer those questions regardless of how much you scream out that people's shareholdings should be viewable. I actually had a full response written out quoting all of your stuff and responding but then I had a think about it.
I realised you hadn't bothered answering any of my direct questions, all you had done was tried turning everything around to get out of having to answer. So, I will ask you again. As someone who has shareholders best interests at heart, what kind of share portfolio do you field? Are you in a valid position to make informed decisions on behalf of other shareholders?
Don't forget to ignore how C-R-A voted against you by 95%, but lets see that shares listing. Hell, I will start things off showing mine. Obviously I am just some hot-headed CEO who shafts all his investors.
Here, take a look at how much of a hypocrite I am
I look forward to you showing that you aren't just a troll, that you do actually in some way support the stockmarket. I am not stupid though, I fully expect you to deflect the statement away from yourself again.
Deleted my long post. Suffice it say that before accusing others of not answering simple questions you should maybe consider answering simple, specific questions yourself where appropriate. Example: On Mat's IPO you've acknowledged you now realise that his initial structure was as an unsecured loan, not as an IPO. yet you twice ignored direct questions on: 1. Did you know that at the time you supported his venture? Or did you not understand the difference between the two? 2. Did you believe that promoting (falsely) an unsecured loan as an IPO was acceptable? (his topic title states IPO yet, as you've now accepted, it was actually an unsecured loan). I appreciate such questions may be awkward - but if you're going to set yourself up as some arbiter of what's good and proper (and EBank as something more than a vapur-ware IPO with low returns) then you need to accept that your own actions will be subject to more scrutiny than most. For myself, if anyone wants to scrutinise my own business dealings then feel free to bump my thread with such questions - and, subject to commercial confidentiality, I'll answer them when I feel like it. Hmm, this ended up nearly half as long as the post I deleted. To reiterate: I have little time for Ezuran (sp?) but your own inability to understand some basic financial concepts (ROI where the amount measured against isn't the amount at the start of the financial period?) leaves me questioning your right to query anyone else before you've learned some basic principles yourself. I'm off to bed now (an easy cop-out I know) - will read your reponse with interest tomorrow when I'm sober and can actually type at a decent speed. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:43:00 - [ 20]
Originally by: Benvie
What he is saying is that an opinion is an opinion. It's not a fact and it can't be debated. If I say "I think you're ugly" then you can't argue with it. It's an opinion. There's no true/false to it. You may have a different opinion, but neither is more correct than the other.
if you state "you own no shares of X corp", as you look through the shareholder list, and i do indeed own shares of X corp (on the character name you're searching for); that's a fact, not an opinion. if you then make a false statement (you own no shares), that is not an opinion, that is an incorrect statement, and you have either missed the name on the list, or you're lying. if you're throwing it at someone as some sort of attack, what are the odds that it's the former instead of the latter? if you state, i believe the moon is made of marshmallows, followed by something like, "we had people land on the moon and take soil samples, they were tested, it has the same chemical composition/ingredients/whatever as Bootoo Marshmallows. plus the ground is soft and bouncy like a huge marshmallow". then you have an opinion backed by fact (which i would assume could be verified, which is why it's a fact). you're right, some opinions are opinions, i.e. beauty IS in the eye of the beerholder. some opinions are not only opinions, especially if they disagree with factual points. an opinion which disagrees with something factual (or many facts), therefore, can be incorrect? correct? |
FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire |
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:46:00 - [ 21]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Benvie
What he is saying is that an opinion is an opinion. It's not a fact and it can't be debated. If I say "I think you're ugly" then you can't argue with it. It's an opinion. There's no true/false to it. You may have a different opinion, but neither is more correct than the other.
if you state "you own no shares of X corp", as you look through the shareholder list, and i do indeed own shares of X corp (on the character name you're searching for); that's a fact, not an opinion. if you then make a false statement (you own no shares), that is not an opinion, that is an incorrect statement, and you have either missed the name on the list, or you're lying. if you're throwing it at someone as some sort of attack, what are the odds that it's the former instead of the latter?
if you state, i believe the moon is made of marshmallows, followed by something like, "we had people land on the moon and take soil samples, they were tested, it has the same chemical composition/ingredients/whatever as Bootoo Marshmallows. plus the ground is soft and bouncy like a huge marshmallow". then you have an opinion backed by fact (which i would assume could be verified, which is why it's a fact).
you're right, some opinions are opinions, i.e. beauty IS in the eye of the beerholder. some opinions are not only opinions, especially if they disagree with factual points. an opinion which disagrees with something factual (or many facts), therefore, can be incorrect? correct?
Do I feel an idiot for appearing to agree with you :) Though "beauty is in the eye of te beerholder" is rather a nice quote - at least from the perspective of a beer drinker. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:53:00 - [ 22]
since i didn't put it in the one replying to ricy. i see you have 3333 shares of frpb. didn't you state you purchased 8,000 or 9,000 shares and that you were selling 2,000? that would leave either 6k or 7k shares.
like i said though, i'm not going to epeen how many shares i directly own, nor how much isk i make (afk or active); i'm not of the herd mentality that is going to instantly assume that makes you correct. i'll take it into consideration (i.e. you've stated certain ipos would do well and they did, and you're now stating a new venture will do well); but that's the sort of consideration i'll give.
another for the hell of it question - how are you supporting the market, for the general populace, if you 1 attempt to buyout an IPO, or 2 buy a chunk of shares from an IPO and then mark them up 25% and instantly put them back up for sell?
that i'm curious of -- how is THAT supporting the public market, making more people interested in the market, making the market more appetizing to more people?
like dr. phil keeps telling me, IT'S NOT ABOUT EZORAN~!! that's why i try to not talk about me. |
Letias
Caldari
Poofdinkles
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:53:00 - [ 23]
That was only in response to you saying Ricdic had an incorrect opinion I don't care if people listen to you or not whether you hold shares or not. We all know that you are an isolated case as far as it comes to market place discussion so people not paying attention to you is no biggie. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.03 00:55:00 - [ 24]
Originally by: FastLearner
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Benvie
What he is saying is that an opinion is an opinion. It's not a fact and it can't be debated. If I say "I think you're ugly" then you can't argue with it. It's an opinion. There's no true/false to it. You may have a different opinion, but neither is more correct than the other.
if you state "you own no shares of X corp", as you look through the shareholder list, and i do indeed own shares of X corp (on the character name you're searching for); that's a fact, not an opinion. if you then make a false statement (you own no shares), that is not an opinion, that is an incorrect statement, and you have either missed the name on the list, or you're lying. if you're throwing it at someone as some sort of attack, what are the odds that it's the former instead of the latter?
if you state, i believe the moon is made of marshmallows, followed by something like, "we had people land on the moon and take soil samples, they were tested, it has the same chemical composition/ingredients/whatever as Bootoo Marshmallows. plus the ground is soft and bouncy like a huge marshmallow". then you have an opinion backed by fact (which i would assume could be verified, which is why it's a fact).
you're right, some opinions are opinions, i.e. beauty IS in the eye of the beerholder. some opinions are not only opinions, especially if they disagree with factual points. an opinion which disagrees with something factual (or many facts), therefore, can be incorrect? correct?
Do I feel an idiot for appearing to agree with you :)
Though "beauty is in the eye of te beerholder" is rather a nice quote - at least from the perspective of a beer drinker.
i don't know, do you? i like agreeing with someone if they're right. i don't really care to agree with someone if they're wrong. people NEED to think for themselves and not just be part of the mindless herd. THAT is what keeps scams at bay, not a handful of people in a leaky boat (i.e. watchdogs). people need to be made to think and question things instead of blindly believing all the bull**** they're fed. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.03 01:02:00 - [ 25]
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 03/11/2007 02:01:43 Originally by: Letias
That was only in response to you saying Ricdic had an incorrect opinion I don't care if people listen to you or not whether you hold shares or not. We all know that you are an isolated case as far as it comes to market place discussion so people not paying attention to you is no biggie.
below is one of ricdic's opinions. it's not a "you're ugly/pretty" opinion, it's one that can be verified by facts. Quote:
you don't own shares of my corp
now if i own shares, and i state i do, and ricdic intentionally is speaking an untruth; does that just mean it's his opinion? shar refuted my statement about dark shikari. now, as i have stated, dark shikari COULD have overlooked my name on the shareholder listing. BUT, if you're going to use "you don't own shares" as an attack; what is the likelihood that he looked very hard. the fact is that i did, at the time, on this toon, possess shares of aatp. shar's rebuttal COULD have happened, but by my stating "you are lying, i have shares"; that is a fact that is easily verifiable by people able to look at who owns shares and by showing a screenshot of my wallet. shar has yet to provide a definition of "anti competitive" which supports that term being used correctly in the thread he used it. he however states that the term has many meaning and examples. when he shows the definition that supports my referred-to-posts as being anti-competitive, and it's an actual definition, not a definitionmadeuptosupportmystatement; then, his statement of "you were being anti-competitive" would be a fact. as it stands, the only definition is the one i quoted directly from, i believe it was wikipedia.org, because it provided a plethora of handy examples. that statement supports MY assertation that shar 1 doesn't know the definition of the word (which he seems, in this thread, to assert he indeed knows the definition), or 2 he lied. there's opinions, there's opinions supported by facts, there's facts, and then there's santy claws. i hope this helps, if not, please feel free to post further. edit: now that i think about it, i WANT to be thought of as a tiny investor. i want to know what the high-and-mighty folks think about we lowly investors. i hate old boys' clubs, where people just pat each other on the back whilst circle jerking. so yeah, please look down on me because i'm a peon without a lot of investment iskies. the lack of my iskies invalidates my opinions and statements? THAT is definitely something the investing public would be well-informed of. the fact that you (whomever) started a public venture and the billions of investor isks makes you better? the fact that you can turn a 150% profit monthly but only report/pay 5% divs? there's a lot of things people can notice if they just take a second look (like roemy with isso, who then got others thinking). fastlearner had some items to point out as well -- intentional misleading of the public? or speaking as a well-informed person whilst being ignorant on the topic? there's a wealth of information to be found on anyone, we've seen that time and again on this forum . ricdic - hey, your ip is one from the ISP i work at, i can do stuff, cuz i do stuff at the ISP for which i work! me - um yeah dude, it's your ip (ricdic), not the ip of the person you're fussing at ricdic - o. oops. that made me fear his leet hacker skills. for the heck of it, here's what could be a twist on things said - on the one hand, because i don't show i own billions of X corp, my opinion is not important. but on the other hand if i'm a shareholder (which i am), my opinion is important enough to ask me to vote on if shareholder names should be released. so at the same time, my opinion is invalidated because i only own say, 1 share; BUT, my opinion is important enough for me to have a vote. then on the flip side - what about other folks' opinions, when they plainly state "i own no shares, but here is my opinion"? |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six |
Posted - 2007.11.03 01:33:00 - [ 26]
Edited by: Selene D''Celeste on 03/11/2007 01:46:38 Originally by: jongalt
while i may not agree with ezorans posts - or his "posting style" - i happen to think he would be loads of fun to drink and play poker with...
-jg.
Speaking of poker, if you ever want to gamble your ISK away in poker look at my bio or send me a convo sometime  /Shameless plug. |
Shar Tegral |
Posted - 2007.11.03 02:29:00 - [ 27]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
People need to be made to think and question things instead of blindly believing all the bull**** they're fed.
Well, imho, this entire thread is nothing but the bull**** you are trying to feed people. This is not a market thread, this is not even a thread about anything in particular but yourself. At best an out of pod thread... but it's not about you. Riiight. |
Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood |
Posted - 2007.11.03 02:31:00 - [ 28]
Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 03/11/2007 02:35:28 Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
People need to be made to think and question things instead of blindly believing all the bull**** they're fed.
Well, imho, this entire thread is nothing but the bull**** you are trying to feed people. This is not a market thread, this is not even a thread about anything in particular but yourself. At best an out of pod thread... but it's not about you. Riiight.
it's not the sell forum either, is it? edit: 1 that's not a definition of anti-competitive 2 i certainly want to know who believes the opinion of the small time investor is inconsequential, as my opinion is that would definitely be a detrimental stand to take (for the general improvement of the player market) 3 i like pie 4 remember, i said that dr phil keeps telling me that it's not about me, implying, i guess, that i'm a self-absorbed assbastard, or something. |
Hanoi Hana
Mitsubishi Group |
Posted - 2007.11.03 02:48:00 - [ 29]
|
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.11.03 03:56:00 - [ 30]
Edited by: Ricdic on 03/11/2007 04:17:41 Originally by: FastLearner
On Mat's IPO you've acknowledged you now realise that his initial structure was as an unsecured loan, not as an IPO. yet you twice ignored direct questions on:
1. Did you know that at the time you supported his venture? Or did you not understand the difference between the two?
Not sure how best to help you understand this, but my support and work as a director in his corporation is to check the viability of his plan, in that I mean his chance to succeed. My job was not, and is not in wording the business plan in ways that suit you. When I have discussed his business plan, it has only been in the form of making sure it doesn't affect the viability of the corporation. I see it as an IPO that closely resembles a bond, nothing more. Obviously you see it differently and you are allowed too. So, you think it's an unsecured loan whilst I think it is an IPO. Sorry if you can't handle the fact that it isn't structured in some way that benefits you. Quote:
2. Did you believe that promoting (falsely) an unsecured loan as an IPO was acceptable? (his topic title states IPO yet, as you've now accepted, it was actually an unsecured loan).
Hardly. I have advised and done so from the start that it was VERY SIMILAR to a bond and probably should have been created as such. My only promotion has been described above and in the previous threads and if you still don't understand that you should go read them again. Quote:
I appreciate such questions may be awkward - but if you're going to set yourself up as some arbiter of what's good and proper (and EBank as something more than a vapur-ware IPO with low returns) then you need to accept that your own actions will be subject to more scrutiny than most. For myself, if anyone wants to scrutinise my own business dealings then feel free to bump my thread with such questions - and, subject to commercial confidentiality, I'll answer them when I feel like it.
What a load of rubbish. Stop trying to boost yourself at my expense, everything I have said I have meant. Quote:
but your own inability to understand some basic financial concepts (ROI where the amount measured against isn't the amount at the start of the financial period?) leaves me questioning your right to query anyone else before you've learned some basic principles yourself.
Hilarious, let me quote this ROI thing you speak of and the way in which it was used: Quote:
Profit & Dividend - 1,300,000,000
Effective 1300 isk per share dividend
For those who purchased at 10k when C-R-A opened the ROI is 13%
Now, you may see in what way I mentioned the ROI and if you can say that I wasn't correct then I will apologise profusely. However if you cannot refute it, then should I recieve an apology? Tell you what, for fun I will find every public corp I can and list how they have done this. I will use proof as well. Things like ISSO, FIN, FIN-U, FRPB, almost EVERY public corp mentions set percentages incorrectly. It is a standard that may be incorrect in your head but is utilised in Eve. Keep an eye out on that post. |
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