Posted - 2007.10.15 08:32:00 - [31]

 

No EON for LaVista makes bad week. I live in Denmark, so just send me my EON already

Posted - 2007.10.15 10:36:00 - [33]

 

Isn't part of this caused by the competition taking over the cheap, easy and profitable sections of Royal Mail's work (business customers), leaving the harder and less profitable work (ie delivering to every door in each town) to Royal Mail. Someone here said that Royal Mail wanted to ditch that sort of work and just focus on business customers.
Someone has to do it, and the one company that is doing it has to compete with others that don't, that's not exactly fair from my point of view.

Probably best we leave that side of the topic as it edges dangerously on getting into politics, I just thought it should be pointed out.

Posted - 2007.10.15 11:32:00 - [35]

 

Damn, that's a great response. Good show!

Posted - 2007.10.15 12:45:00 - [37]

 

Crap, forgot about this. It might slow down my PS3

Posted - 2007.10.15 14:22:00 - [39]

 

the delivery sector (whilst often looking like one) isnt a monopoly. Everyone does have a choice over which delivery company they use (Royal Mail, TNT, DHL etc etc) The reason people usually use Royal Mail, is because of the size of their operations, they can charge much lower prices. I dont doubt for a second that a lot of routes for Royal Mail are loss making route, i wouldnt be surprised if there was an entire county where they actually made a loss in all. But due to the fact that they cover such a huge percentage of households, with enough time to make deliveries to each and everyone of these (normally) on a daily basis, makes them the first choice for reliability.

Its a similar situation in some cities with FirstBus, due to the size of their operations compared to the competition they become first choice (no pun intended) and because of the size, they can typically do it cheaper.

Its no secret Royal Mail as a company is going through some financially difficult times over the last few years, (loss of over 100mil for the 06-07 year, although a 100mil+ profit for the 05-06 year) So the company is right to be trying to keep costs low. I dont know a huge amount about the past pay-increases for Royal Mail staff, however the weather has always been cack in the winter, the hours have always been ****. So why now do they feel they deserve an above inflation pay increase? Regardless they are well within their right to strike for a pay increase.

However given the financial difficulties of RoyalMail, is it right, that despite moving from a positive profit, to a loss, Adam Crozier (Royal Mail Chief Executive, and guy who messed up running the FA) recieved a 3.3mil paypacket last year? Such a huge drop in profit in a year, can be considered nothing yet than a failure, although a 3.3mil salary says little other than congratulations.

I sympathise with both the workers and the people depending upon deliveries, however both workers and people dependant upon it have a choice. Your choice isnt (usually) set in stone, and you can change your mind. However for the mean time, youve made your choice, so put up with it.

Posted - 2007.10.15 14:47:00 - [41]

 

Originally by: Xtreem

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I had a fight with a postie over this, on verbal lol

The royal mail when they were on strike cost me £300 a day! so was not happy with there strikes, i walk to work and there is a royal mail depot on the way, they had a picket line on the front.

"beep for your support" was on a few billboards and they were asking people to sign a petition to support them... they asked me, i told them to go **** themselves with it, postie got mad and shouted back, and we screamed at each other for a while :)

honestly if i was royal mail id say... come back to work now... or we fire all of you, fire them all, then just fold the company after super screwing it up. Teach the ****s to strike, ok it would mess me up 2, but would server the people right, they want more money so they screw up 1000's of other peoples money and companies.

****ers

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£300 per day = £78,000 per year. If your earning that much money, im sure you can afford to loose some in exchange for the (comparitively) small increase posties are after. Regardless whether your earning £78K a year, you deserve to be losing money like that for having that attitude. In all honesty, you probably got off lucky, id imagine the majority of striking worker who had some arrogant stuck up **** tell him to "**** themselves" would get the **** kicked out of them, i for one certainly would have.

Imagine Royal Mail did sack all of them. After that, who in their right mind would think Royal Mail would be a good company to work for? A company willing to sack thousands of people for an above inflation wage increase? Imagine they did sack them all, do you really think the strikes will last longer than the time it would take to replace every single person sacked? id be pretty sure you would lose more money if they replaced all the staff than if they re-negotiated with the unions.

Stop being such an absolute R-tard and look past the simple actions of the strike, and look at WHY they are striking. Its ignorance like yours that makes this country such an aggravating place to live in, go back to reading your Daily Star.

Posted - 2007.10.15 16:32:00 - [43]

 

Originally by: Jago Kain

---

Hang on a second here.

The CWU wants more for it's members than the pathetic 2.5% that The Royal Mail are offering and some folk seem to think that's unreasonable?

Let me remind you all, that information about the pay increases for the Royal Mail's execs is not in the public domain. What do you think might be the reason for this? Perhaps the bosses have not confined themselves to the below the rate of inflation rise they are offering their staff?

In addition, the Royal Mail are nerfing the pension scheme; check here for details. Wonder if the bosses' pensions will be affected?

I'm sick of folk crying foul every time there is a strike. Do you seriously think that any of the strikers wants to put their economic future at risk? These guys have families, and even the loss of a few days pay whilst on strike can have serious knock-on effects.

When a small percentage of the population controls the means of production, the only thing that the little guy can do to protest is withdraw his labour. Striking is not illegal, yet, and is one of the few things that can have an effect on negotiations with big business. This is self-defense by the postal workers and their union.

The Royal Mail is driven, like every other business it seems, by the desire to make money, whatever the human cost.

The cuts in staffing levels, the increases in workload for remaining staff, the inability to adapt to a changing market - these are all due to incompetent management and failure to communicate with it's own workforce and, more importantly, it's customers.

I can't believe the immorality of Patch86's OP... seriously. he needs his head looking at.

A mouse late arriving and you're talking (jokingly I hope, although it's in very poor taste) about firebombing an organisation dedicated to protecting it's members interests against big business? Does this not seem just a little disproportionate to you?

Perhaps playing video games does turn people into violent monsters after all?

All mouth and no brains makes Patch86 a reactionary, union-bashing, short-sighted fool.

How about a little solidarity for a section of the workforce that is under attack by the over paid minions of big business?

Look beyond the obvious every once in a while, because unless you are one of them (the ruling class that is - and don't bother with the usual "the UK is classless" BS), you will be next.

As for Benco97 losing 9k worth of business over a two day strike; if you are in a business dependant on mail and you hadn't got a back-up plan sorted, you deserve to go under. Surely you must have noticed that The Royal Mail has been a bit rubbish for some time now? Perhaps you still used them because they were cheap... there's always a reason... and perhaps if you spent less time on the EVE-O forums and more time formulating business stategies, you wouldn't be in trouble?

See you down the Jobcentre sometime soon.

---

Thank you for posting. Reading one's own views expressed quite eloquently is always satisfying.

Posted - 2007.10.15 16:41:00 - [45]

 

Edited by: Captain Hudson on 15/10/2007 16:41:46
****ing Royal Mail, what happened to my post, and my lunch time post aswell, lazy ****ers thats what you lot are, but seriously if you dont like the pay your quite welcome to get another job. There are a million immigrant workers who would do your job for the current pay and proberly much better.

Oh and Tube Drivers can go **** themselves aswell, all they do is sit on their arse all day.

Posted - 2007.10.15 16:45:00 - [47]

 

Edited by: Jago Kain on 15/10/2007 16:45:38

Originally by: vanBuskirk

---

Originally by: Ilvan

---

Originally by: Xen Gin

---

It's been nearly 2 weeks, and I'm still waiting for my Amazon delivery. It was supposed to go back to the local depot last Wednesday, but last time I checked (Saturday) it still hadn't turned up.


I really need the books for university and my assignment next week. Way to put my degree in jeopardy.

---

They've got more important things to worry about. Stuff like, y'know, feeding their families and not living on the street.

---

Yes, precisely. And if Royal Mail (which is now a private company, and still losing money) goes under through inefficiency, that will happen anyway - and it will be their fault.....

....some unsubstaniated allegations about working practices within the Royal Mail....

---

Interesting list; I won't directly quote it all, as folk can read up if they are interested.

Have you any proof of these allegations? I'd be interested in seeing it. Until then I shall treat your list as highly suspect; I do not believe your information is accurate.

Also, the Royal Mail is a unique company.

It is, in effect, a plc owned wholly by the state.

It's primary respopnsibility is NOT to shareholders; it is to provide a service that private enterprise can not and will not because of the logistics involved.

All the profitable bits of mail deilivery have been open to competition for years, but someone has to make sure that little old ladies living halfway up Welsh mountain-sides get their christmas cards. This is the responsibility of the Royal Mail.

Is anyone going to suggest that DHL or anyone of that ilk would be likely to take an interest in a business like that? Not a chance; the board and shareholders would crucify the execs and they'd be out in minutes flat.

If the Royal Mail doesn't make money, this is down to the fact that private enterprise has stolen (with the aid of the regulatory body and the government) all the profitable bits of the work they used to have a monopoly on, without taking an interest in the less profitable bits.

Mail delivery needs to remain in state hands, the same as the health service, prisons, and I'd even go so far as to say gas, electricity and the other utilities.

All these services need to be run to do a job, not to make a profit. If they can make money over and above cost of running the business, all well and good, but the primary conern should be the provision of service, and not to make the shareholders rich whilst the rest of us suffer from poor service becasue the board doesn't think that delivering letters to isolated communities and having a village post-office is cost-effective.

Fortunately for all of us in the UK, vanBuskirk is NOT in charge of the mail.

Your proposed solutions to the industrial actrion of the workforce are both laughable and unworkable, and like I say, I would be very interested to see where you are getting your information from.

What is it they say in here all the time? Proof or STFU!!

Posted - 2007.10.15 17:03:00 - [49]

 

Originally by: Jago Kain

---

...

---

Believe it or not, I'm a vehement believer in the right to strike, and a lefty fool. But I'm of the opinion that industrial action should be used as a negotiable weapon of last resort, not a barrel over which to bully ones employer at the expense of the general public.

My post is obviously just about the least important inconvenience- the lack of use of one's computer for a fortnight. But Benco gives an example of exactly what strikes like this do do- they ruin innocent peoples lives. Not only are small businesses - too small to set up effective "back up plans" without killing their profitability, - seriously under threat from severe monetary loss, but big national businesses are hit too- some national businesses are reporting 100's of thousands of pounds lost, which will directly effect the pay of their own employees. I work in a bank's administrative centre, and seeing as a large amount of customer correspondence must go through the post to get us originals of important documents, some people are finding it literally impossible to get hold of their money without the postal service.

But I guess thats OK, as long as the postal workers get a pay rise. And as a matter of note- postmen earn an average salary somewhat greater that what I'm paid, have a comparable pension scheme even after the "nerf", and have more favourable working practices. Not that I'm saying they don't deserve a pay rise, mark you; me and postmen don't do anything like a comparable job, so its a pointless comparison. I'm just saying they're not exactly on the bread line here. No one is going to starve to death if the Royal Mail's stingy plans were to be put in to action, and the desperation for near continuous official and wildcat strikes for over 2 weeks is not justified.


What I'm trying to say is, the nature of the dispute does not justify the severe response the CWU have implemented- bringing the country's economy to it's knees for weeks on end, at the expense of the rest of the common people in the country. It'd be like Spain nuking the UK over who gets to fly their flag over Gibraltar- people care, but that doesn't warrant MAXIMUM HOSTILITY LEVEL.



And yes, the firebombing was a joke. I do not really want to commit mass murder and horrific maiming on Union administrative staff. The internets are serious business, you know.

Posted - 2007.10.15 19:40:00 - [51]

 

I believe a single image sums up my feelings on the recent postal strikes and the lack of service from Royal Mail :

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Have a nice day.

Posted - 2007.10.15 20:48:00 - [53]

 

Originally by: Jago Kain

---

Hang on a second here.

The CWU wants more for it's members than the pathetic 2.5% that The Royal Mail are offering and some folk seem to think that's unreasonable?

Let me remind you all, that information about the pay increases for the Royal Mail's execs is not in the public domain. What do you think might be the reason for this? Perhaps the bosses have not confined themselves to the below the rate of inflation rise they are offering their staff?

In addition, the Royal Mail are nerfing the pension scheme; check here for details. Wonder if the bosses' pensions will be affected?

I'm sick of folk crying foul every time there is a strike. Do you seriously think that any of the strikers wants to put their economic future at risk? These guys have families, and even the loss of a few days pay whilst on strike can have serious knock-on effects.

When a small percentage of the population controls the means of production, the only thing that the little guy can do to protest is withdraw his labour. Striking is not illegal, yet, and is one of the few things that can have an effect on negotiations with big business. This is self-defense by the postal workers and their union.

The Royal Mail is driven, like every other business it seems, by the desire to make money, whatever the human cost.

The cuts in staffing levels, the increases in workload for remaining staff, the inability to adapt to a changing market - these are all due to incompetent management and failure to communicate with it's own workforce and, more importantly, it's customers.

I can't believe the immorality of Patch86's OP... seriously. he needs his head looking at.

A mouse late arriving and you're talking (jokingly I hope, although it's in very poor taste) about firebombing an organisation dedicated to protecting it's members interests against big business? Does this not seem just a little disproportionate to you?

Perhaps playing video games does turn people into violent monsters after all?

All mouth and no brains makes Patch86 a reactionary, union-bashing, short-sighted fool.

How about a little solidarity for a section of the workforce that is under attack by the over paid minions of big business?

Look beyond the obvious every once in a while, because unless you are one of them (the ruling class that is - and don't bother with the usual "the UK is classless" BS), you will be next.

As for Benco97 losing 9k worth of business over a two day strike; if you are in a business dependant on mail and you hadn't got a back-up plan sorted, you deserve to go under. Surely you must have noticed that The Royal Mail has been a bit rubbish for some time now? Perhaps you still used them because they were cheap... there's always a reason... and perhaps if you spent less time on the EVE-O forums and more time formulating business stategies, you wouldn't be in trouble?

See you down the Jobcentre sometime soon.

---

Oh look, it's Mr. Controversial.

Do you own / have owned a business?

If so, only then do you have the right to criticize Benco.

Posted - 2007.10.15 21:50:00 - [55]

 

Originally by: Cherybol

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Edited by: Cherybol on 15/10/2007 02:38:09

Originally by: Jago Kain

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Originally by: Xen Gin

---

It's been nearly 2 weeks, and I'm still waiting for my Amazon delivery. It was supposed to go back to the local depot last Wednesday, but last time I checked (Saturday) it still hadn't turned up.


I really need the books for university and my assignment next week. Way to put my degree in jeopardy.

---

More rambling.

---

I never knew Universities carried EVERY DANG BOOK IN EXISTENCE. Hell man, why do I keep buying these books for class? I should just head down there and pick em all up, since they keep a copy for every student who needs one. Hoo-Boy.

---

Exactly, I'm really surprised that the Uni didn't have one copy of each book for every student. Damn, I mean, how popular can the overly expensive, very VERY new Computer Forensics books for a new course just starting its second year be?

I don't place all the blame on RM, its the government, employers and the strikers, you know the ILLEGALLY striking workers.

But hey, I'm sure I'll take it up with Amazon, they would probably like to know which thieving postie stole a £150 book too.

Posted - 2007.10.16 02:04:00 - [57]

 

Originally by: Constantine Arcanum

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Oh look, it's Mr. Controversial.

Do you own / have owned a business?

If so, only then do you have the right to criticize Benco.

---

That's an argument that holds no water and well you know it.

I've never murdered anyone either, but does that mean I wouldn't be allowed to do jury service at a murder trial?

Benco97 posted in here, and as such, invited comment and criticism himself.

I'm pretty sure if he needs defending from me, he's well capable of doing it himself without some troll leaping in here on his behalf. That said, you are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to make suggestions as to where you can shove it.

In any case, I have actually been in business for myself. Twice.

Would you like some vaseline?

Next!

Posted - 2007.10.16 02:36:00 - [59]

 

Originally by: vanBuskirk

---

Jago, I found that list by Googling "spanish practices" - I think. By the way, "Spanish practices" is a common term in the UK for some unknown reason - no offense to real Spaniards meant.

The point is; that list was published in two major newspapers, the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph, on their websites as well. OK, they are both right-wing; but are you seriously going to tell me that they are going to publish out-and-out lies?

It might also be mentioned that their pension scheme is a hangover from when the mail service was an arm of government; it's much more generous than the schemes in just about all of private industry (final-salary scheme starting at age 60). That ought to be considered in any discussions of relative pay. Of course, their union avoids mentioning it when it can.

---

Righto.

Firstly, thank you for your contribution to the thread.

In answer to your question, "are you seriously going to tell me that they are going to publish out-and-out lies?", the short answer is yes.

Like yourself, I can use google, and look what I found with only 20 seconds digging.

I have included only one example of the dishonesty of each of these papers, but I did pick examples that clearly express where the editorial direction of these rags is pointing.

Daily Mail lies

Telegraph lies

The first link is from when the Daily Malice accused an ethnic minority police officer of trying to propogate race-hate.

The second link is the Torygraph's infamous smearing of George Galloway.

Say what you like about George Galloway (personally I think he's a publicity seeking idiot and he makes my skin crawl) but if you print it, it has to be true or there are consequences.

I think the appropriate phrase here is "Publish and be damned".

Your list comes from two of the most right-wing, dishonest, libellous pieces of journalistic crap to ever grace a newsagents counter. All that's missing is an article from The Sun in a similar vein.

I'd still like to see a link to the list though, rather than take your word for it. I don't read either rag myself, so I haven't come across their stance on the dispute personally.

You are right about the pension scheme being a holdover/hangover from the mail service as a government arm. It still is an arm of the government as Royal Mail is owned entirely by the state, for reasons that should be readily apparent to anyone who has read the entire thread.

You're wrong about the Union not talking about this though; it's a key point in negotiation as the Royal Mail are trying to close the final pension scheme to ALL, not just new employees. This is what we call "moving the goal-posts".

There are folk who have spent their entire working life trudging about the streets of Britain at unsociable hours performing a vital service and they deserve adequate recompense and security in their old age.

To be told after in excess of 40 years service that your pension is not going to be what you were told it was when you signed up for a life of toil, is nothing short of theft.

Even Boots didn't dare touch existing employess final salary pensions when they were grubbing for money in the 90's.

Nice quote in your siggy vanBuskirk.

I would, however, disagree with Salvor Hardin and indeed thereby Isaac Asimov; violence is the first resort of the incompetent far too often for him to be right.