| Author |
Topic |
Omega Sinner |
Posted - 2007.09.11 06:58:00 - [ 1]
Edited by: Omega Sinner on 13/09/2007 08:48:21
Edited by: Omega Sinner on 11/09/2007 20:21:11
Added subject line. -Rauth Kivaro(mods@ccpgames.com)
Do you condone your gm's making players lose there hard earned ships and isk by riping them off..
A certain player sells rattlesnake on open contract other player buys it gm comes along says it was sold to a known isk seller and takes the isk he just got for the ship,,the ship itself and then take another bill off him aswell and that = lost player and soon many more to come if this type of thing is aloud to keep up.
Something must be done about this abuse of power by gm's ingame.its not the first time I've heard of this happening.
Don't bother telling me this is the first time you've heard this cause i know it is not.
What are you going to do about this me as a customer of your fine product would really like to know..
Look through this post and it shall open your eyes more...Like my friend who is one of a few on why I started this post on page 10 ... |
Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:00:00 - [ 2]
Can I have your wall of text? seems thats all you've got left  |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:01:00 - [ 3]
Must be the hair |
Sarah McTeef |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:05:00 - [ 4]
 Originally by: Omega Sinner
Edited by: Omega Sinner on 11/09/2007 07:03:59
Do you condone your gm's making players lose there hard earned ships and isk by riping them off..
Yes. That is all. |
Omega Sinner |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:05:00 - [ 5]
Lol should have proofed it..
its not the hair its the residue from the hair spray
:P |
Svavz
Gallente
V i r u s
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:22:00 - [ 6]
Same thing happened to my CEO, GMs removed 4 billion from his wallet (Leaving him -2Billion when he previously had +2Billion)...
He is baffled as to why they did it, GMs refuse to give him a straight answer. |
Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:22:00 - [ 7]
well bad luck.
Now join the fight against isk sellers and isk buyers and it will not happen anymore. |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:26:00 - [ 8]
So CCP has a brand new policy: You have market sell orders or contract up. Someone buys stuff from you or gets your contract. Then few hours later GM rips off your ISK leaving you WITHOUT your recently sold STUFF and ISK while saying that buyer was KNOWN ISK BUYER/SELLER. Oh the joy. I won't be putting up and sell orders anymore because you will get buthfuksored by nice CCP GM's.  |
Omega Sinner |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:27:00 - [ 9]
I am against isk sellers and items sellers..But to have a gm tell you that your selling your stuff to a known isk seller on an open contract when you have no idea who is buying your stuff.
Is completly worse then isk sellers by far. |
Svavz
Gallente
V i r u s
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:28:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Kuolematon
So CCP has a brand new policy:
You have market sell orders or contract up. Someone buys stuff from you or gets your contract. Then few hours later GM rips off your ISK leaving you WITHOUT your recently sold STUFF and ISK while saying that buyer was KNOWN ISK BUYER/SELLER.
Oh the joy. I won't be putting up and sell orders anymore because you will get buthfuksored by nice CCP GM's.
This thread (because Its not the first time I've heard this happening) is certainly make me reconsider selling things... |
Fenren
Minmatar
Bure Astro Photography
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:29:00 - [ 11]
Edited by: Fenren on 11/09/2007 07:30:57
another redheaded that "know someone" that got hit by this....
put on your tin foil hats, i can smell a ccp conspiracy against redheads!!
on a more serious note, they should NOT punish the seller, if it is done through the market or an open contract |
QuantumX
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:31:00 - [ 12]
If this is true, it is VERY wrong, using open contracts a person does not have a choice who buys the item..
Now the only time this should happen is two reason, one the contract was private, then may its a ISK sale transfer, or if the item is worth say 5 million ISK and sold on open contract for 2 billion ISK.
But otherwise its wrong and the GM should not do it.
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:31:00 - [ 13]
Originally by: Svavz
Same thing happened to my CEO, GMs removed 4 billion from his wallet (Leaving him -2Billion when he previously had +2Billion)...
He is baffled as to why they did it, GMs refuse to give him a straight answer.
If you think you got treated unfair by a GM you can always escalate the petition. I am quite happy that CCP is doing something against the isk buyers as well and not only something against isk sellers. Those *** isk-buyers are those who destroy Eve and everyone that got caught deserves to be punished really hard! Maybe CCP should also remove some SP from them as additional punishment - I think you will get quite upset if you lose 15% of your SP every time you got caught buying isk. And hopefully this will stop lots of people from buying isk further. Of course it must only hit isk buyers and not the innocent player. |
Hermosa Diosas |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:34:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Kuolematon
ISK while saying that buyer was KNOWN ISK BUYER/SELLER.
Hmmm interesting if they are KNOWN then why are they still on the system? Surely removing them as CCP should have would prevent this probelm. The plot thickens |
Omega Sinner |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:35:00 - [ 15]
Exactly my point... |
Svavz
Gallente
V i r u s
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:36:00 - [ 16]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
Originally by: Kuolematon
ISK while saying that buyer was KNOWN ISK BUYER/SELLER.
Hmmm interesting if they are KNOWN then why are they still on the system? Surely removing them as CCP should have would prevent this probelm. The plot thickens
Serious hamster business! |
Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:36:00 - [ 17]
Edited by: Shevar on 11/09/2007 07:36:16http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=583125Appearantly CCP claims it doesn't remove the ISK *COUGH*: Originally by: CCP Prism x
Generic Noob buys 1 Trillion ISK.
Example 1:
Because Generic Noob has no idea about the real value of ISK he buys one of your BSs for half a trillion ISK.
You get half a trillion ISK.
GMs are alerted to Generic Noobs bad habits.
One trillion ISK are removed from Generic Noobs wallet.
Net result:
You sold one BS and gained half a trillion ISK.
Generic Noob now has a wallet balance of -half a trillion ISK and needs to work up his half a trillion ISK before he can do anything as there is almost always some fee involved in EvE. He also has a BS which he bought on credit.
Example 2:
You sell 5 years worth of GTC to generic noob for a trillion ISK (because he's got no clue).
Generic Noob commits to 5 years of playing EvE.
GMs remove 1 trillion ISK from his wallet.
Generic Noob spends 1 year of those five getting back up to 0 balance.
Now I've never been a GM so I dont know the full details. But in general this is how ISK buyers are dealth with. The sellers are of course banned as well but we all know that's rather futile. The real problem isn't the supply of ISK but the demand for buying virtual currency with hard cash.. AKA sloth mixed with ignorance.
~ Prism X
Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.
Originally by: GM Nova
That is not entirely accurate because the random noob will never hold on to the ISK. The owner will try to get the trillion to his main character and that is the character which will suffer. Also, how plausible is it that anyone would sell a battleship for half a trillion?
Anyways your best bet is to petition and explain your case... But really I don't understand CCP in this, I fully agree with punishing ISK buyers but I DON'T want to be in a position where I sell something expensive to another player (high end shield boosters, faction BS's etc.) and then CCP reversing the transaction without reversing the actual goods sold. |
Omega Sinner |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:42:00 - [ 18]
Edited by: Omega Sinner on 11/09/2007 07:44:19
Thats just it petitions have been sent out..yet ccp hasn't done anything about them and has lost several good longer term players because of this blatent abuse of gm's.. |
Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:48:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Omega Sinner
Thats just it petitions have been sent out..yet ccp hasn't done anything about them and has lost several players because of this blatent abuse of gm's..
It isn't blatant abuse of GM power, abuse would indicate GM's would do it to futher their own goals, they aren't doing that but instead they are just following work procedures. That being said their work procedure for removing "dirty" ISK is just plain wrong. You CANNOT and SHOULD NOT remove isk after it entered the market, sure if someone uses it to buy 1 trit for 1 billion then sure then it's being laundered... But selling of expensive items should not resolve in the seller (who appearantly sold the item to an ISK buyer (which in 99% of the cases he can't know since those accounts aren't flagged with ISK buyer or whatever) ) loosing an item worth billions and have the billions removed from his wallet. It's just totally ******ed and would love to see a proper responce to this issue (the responce I got in my thread wasn't all that stellar....). |
Omega Sinner |
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:54:00 - [ 20]
Edited by: Omega Sinner on 11/09/2007 08:10:56
Edited by: Omega Sinner on 11/09/2007 07:57:41
your right its not really abuse but it is wrong..
removing the 1.1 bill plus the item then fining him another 1 bill for something he had no control over.
Such as who buys the item when its open and not private
So who knows really what was going through the mind of that gm at that moment.
srry shouldn't have added that part not usually in me to be like that.. |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:55:00 - [ 21]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 11/09/2007 08:01:11Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 11/09/2007 07:58:41Although I've steered clear of most ISK-selling discussion, there's one thing I *don't* understand. Player A owns an item, say a Rattlesnake,,, it's worth 1 bil isk. So,, player A has a net worth of 1 bil. Isk Seller A purchases said rattlesnake. Player A now has 1 bil isk. Player A has a net worth of 1 bil. There's no reasonable explanation to remove the isk from this as even if it was some dastardly plot to recieve credits from an isk seller, as far as I can tell, the Player has gained nothing. It's bizzare and makes no sense,,, hope CCP gives a little lovetap to whichever GM think's they're "Smashing ISK-seller transfers",, EDIT: There is *only* one situation where I can think that this is could be identified as isk-selling. However, I won't put it here because, well, yeah. I don't want to worsen an issue. And it would actually work rather well  I'd hope the GM's would be aware of it though,,, Quote:
and really whats say that gm didn't just transfer it all to his main or another toon.
And whats to say he *did* transfer it all to his toon? Such claims without *any* proof beyond "GM such and such did this in the past" is just trying to stir the pot and cause trouble. Sorry, but it just frustrates me when people concieve that one issue is more likely than the other when no proof favours either conclusion. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente |
Posted - 2007.09.11 08:09:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas
Originally by: Kuolematon
ISK while saying that buyer was KNOWN ISK BUYER/SELLER.
Hmmm interesting if they are KNOWN then why are they still on the system? Surely removing them as CCP should have would prevent this probelm. The plot thickens
The key point is "seller". Beside getting the seller they want to punish enough isk buyer that the others isk buyers would stop doing that. so as in most police operatiosn they are waithing and keeping the seller under scrutiny to get all is net of support characters and buyers. If the OP friend has sold some item to a know isk seller for a greatly inflated price it is almost granted that he is buying isk, and it is right he get hit by a penality, losing the isk x2 (if I have got it right how he was hit) and the item sold. If he has sold the item for a reasonable price (market price plus a limited extra) the standar procedure (from what I get) is to first take away the isk, then complete the investigation and eventually return them. If he has got 5 billions for 1 torpedo (as it happened) he should have tought something was amiss and petitioned it to avoid problems (as did the player that got 5 billions for a torpedo). If that happened he he did not report it hoping to keep the isk he accepted the risk of getting hit as a isk buyer and he lost the bet. |
Drechana Endisil
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 08:11:00 - [ 23]
Edited by: Drechana Endisil on 11/09/2007 08:14:15
Edited by: Drechana Endisil on 11/09/2007 08:13:42
Im not sure i follow what is going on here....u say u sell something but a GM says it was sold to a known isk buyer so he takes the mod and the money? i can understand them taking it if u bought isk from him but what right have they got to take the money and the mod if u sell something and he is an isk buyer, how the hell are you to know he was an isk buyer....does the phrase 1984 ring a bell to any of you?
This game is getting worse and worse....and you know what...with all these GM's taking isk from people because they accuse them of getting it from an isk seller, it makes me think THEY, the GM's are the fecking isk sellers.
I mean look at it, they got an infinite supply of ISK cause they can take it from whoever they want and just use the excuse of, 'oh it was from/to an isk seller.
Feckin game gets worse and worse everyday
Oh and if he is KNOWN why isnt he banned? DOesnt that just scream at you that that particualar GM just fancied more money in his wallet? |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 08:27:00 - [ 24]
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 11/09/2007 08:27:39 Quote:
Oh and if he is KNOWN why isnt he banned? DOesnt that just scream at you that that particualar GM just fancied more money in his wallet?
He probably did get banned. And it doesn't scream "GM wanted more money" because the OP hasn't debunked my reason for thinking why a GM could legitimately remove the isk because it was an ISK purchase from a seller. And the OP probably won't, but yeah, I don't want to reveal it because it'd be a step-by-step guide to doing something which would breach the EULA. The only way a GM could tell this is with some pretty close monitoring (which, I don't even know whether they could actually do or not, though there's no reason why they couldn't). We all know ISK sellers are the root cause of the problem, but ISK buyers promote the need for isk sellers to pass their goods, and so CCP aren't abashed in punishing those who purchase it too. For the record, I'm not saying that the OP bought ISK, he just hasn't completely debunked that possibility. |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 08:36:00 - [ 25]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 08:37:04 Originally by: Omega Sinner
for example player sells rattlesnake on open contract other player buys it gm comes along says it was sold to a known isk seller and takes the isk he just got for the ship,,the ship itself and then take another bill off him
Originally by: Omega Sinner
removing the 1.1 bill plus the item then fining him another 1 bill for something he had no control over.
He bought 2Bil before, and bought a Rattlesnake with it, didn't he? It's what it reeks of. Anyway, you can always escalate to a higher GM. |
Omega Sinner |
Posted - 2007.09.11 08:39:00 - [ 26]
What are they going to do if say a long term player and friend of players makes the decision to leave EvE cause of rl is taking to much of there time.
transfers his stuff and isk to a friend just cause he doesn't want to see all of what he's collected go to waste.
This problem brings up many questions.
Also many fears that items and isk can be taken for reasons that aren't truly just and hold no foundation without properly looking at the situation. |
Drechana Endisil
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 08:39:00 - [ 27]
Edited by: Drechana Endisil on 11/09/2007 08:39:46 Quote:
and really whats say that gm didn't just transfer it all to his main or another toon.
Quote:
And whats to say he *did* transfer it all to his toon? Such claims without *any* proof beyond "GM such and such did this in the past" is just trying to stir the pot and cause trouble.
And wheres the damn proof that this transaction was dodgy and warrented taking this guys money?! damn the apathy of some of the people in this game really gets on my ****...yeah i will just lay down while u shaft me and it will all be cool man. ffs |
Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 08:39:00 - [ 28]
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 11/09/2007 08:27:39
Quote:
Oh and if he is KNOWN why isnt he banned? DOesnt that just scream at you that that particualar GM just fancied more money in his wallet?
He probably did get banned. And it doesn't scream "GM wanted more money" because the OP hasn't debunked my reason for thinking why a GM could legitimately remove the isk because it was an ISK purchase from a seller.
And the OP probably won't, but yeah, I don't want to reveal it because it'd be a step-by-step guide to doing something which would breach the EULA. The only way a GM could tell this is with some pretty close monitoring (which, I don't even know whether they could actually do or not, though there's no reason why they couldn't).
We all know ISK sellers are the root cause of the problem, but ISK buyers promote the need for isk sellers to pass their goods, and so CCP aren't abashed in punishing those who purchase it too.
For the record, I'm not saying that the OP bought ISK, he just hasn't completely debunked that possibility.
There have been far to many reports regarding people selling an expensive item like faction battleships or highend officer modules having their isk from the sale removed and not having their item returned. So the problem is ISK buyer buys an item from the market, guy selling the item thinks yay nice sale few days/weeks later poof money gone and expensive/rare module gone. Yes I agree isk buyers need to be battled but putting people who sell high end loot in such a position is just plain ******ed. How do GM's value a faction battleship? How do GM's value high end loot? It isn't easy tracking the normal market price and even harder to understand the circumstances of the sale, eg if sold in Jita some items will be cheaper while others will be more expensive. My opinion start banning the isk sellers, yes the buyers are a problem but unless you are certain they actually bought isk you really shouldn't remove billions from their account (eg. a faction BS or really rare module selling at 20% above average market price isn't laundering money per definition it's just a really good sale to some impatient prick). And yes buying a few trit for billions is a clear sign (or anything above 500% above market price assuming the module isn't in rare supply), having a large sum transfered to your account is a clear sign as well. But in a lot of cases the problem is someone selling a rare/expensive module and then having the isk removed from his account from the sale without refunding the sold item. Also I definatly don't believe in the whole guilty till proven innocent thing, specially if you are not in a position to provide proof (you don't have access to the database). |
Omega Sinner |
Posted - 2007.09.11 08:48:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/09/2007 08:37:04
He bought 2Bil before, and bought a Rattlesnake with it, didn't he?
It's what it reeks of. Anyway, you can always escalate to a higher GM.
No he hates sellers as much as I do..If your not making isk ingame then reavalute your game stradegy..that my oppinion..Plus he had the rattlesnake longer than I've known him ingame and its not about him buying it. its about who he apperantly sold it to on an open contract. |
Krulla
Minmatar
Miner Protection Guild
|
Posted - 2007.09.11 09:04:00 - [ 30]
Originally by: Kuolematon
So CCP has a brand new policy:
You have market sell orders or contract up. Someone buys stuff from you or gets your contract. Then few hours later GM rips off your ISK leaving you WITHOUT your recently sold STUFF and ISK while saying that buyer was KNOWN ISK BUYER/SELLER.
Oh the joy. I won't be putting up and sell orders anymore because you will get buthfuksored by nice CCP GM's.
I'm pretty sure that's not how they operate because that's goddamn ******ed. And CCP are not goddamn ******ed. More likely that they take any money that was received from a ISK Seller for no reason at all, or something. |
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