| Author |
Topic |
Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle |
Posted - 2007.08.20 15:07:00 - [ 31]
|
Celeste Bane |
Posted - 2007.08.20 15:07:00 - [ 32]
 Originally by: MITSUK0
Your talking about in gangs 
Originally by: Celeste Bane
To be mediocre(10 KM/S), requires about 200+ mil + cheap wirings + and a command ship (gang bonus).
|
Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle |
Posted - 2007.08.20 15:10:00 - [ 33]
One other thing to point out.
The extremely fast setups, say 15+ km/s, take a lot of ISK to be bought. If someone wants to go that fast, the take the risk of a lagstrike, being desynced, and everything inbetween - its part of the game, and one little "oops" by the server can put you billions in debt if you try it. |
Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group |
Posted - 2007.08.20 16:04:00 - [ 34]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 20/08/2007 16:06:25
Well, one of the arguments for not bringing missiles and drones 'up to speed' (aside from the valid - 'never ending upward spiral of re-balancing') is that extreme speeds aren't healthy for the server.
Much better to bring speeds down a bit.
As I see it, an overload of your MWD should allow you to temporarily outrun high precision light missiles/T2 light drones in a fast frigate hull, but not indefinitely - the game is balanced around you still being hit (explosion velocity/crummy light drone damage).
Destroyer and Cruiser sized-platforms untouchable by even the lightest weapons due to combination of rigs/modules and implants is absurd. Isk concerns are not valid either.
a) The cost to a large degree, is simply due to the extreme popularity of such setups.
b) You can throw several Billion isk at a full Centus X-type armour tank, but in no-way does it render you virtually invulnerable.
c) Can you imagine the state of play if Slave implants gave an armour repair bonus, and stacked, without penalty, against Auxillary nano-pumps?...
|
Fenderson |
Posted - 2007.08.20 17:50:00 - [ 35]
has there been any definite word on graviton beams making it to TQ? they were testing for a while on sisi, and seemed like they would be a good counter to nano setups. |
Swirlar
Foundation |
Posted - 2007.08.20 18:17:00 - [ 36]
Edited by: Swirlar on 20/08/2007 18:18:10
The author of this post is just another one of those nerftards.
So negative in your proposals, get rid if this, get rid of that.
Next time the enemies of your country trump you with some better technology; just ask them to get rid of it, eh? Stupid.
How about this, use your brain, come up with something better, a new mod or device that can deal with this kind of problem.
The answer to any problem will never be....get rid of the problem so it doesn't exit.
The answer to every problem must be to come up with a way to deal with the problem.
It's called a solution! There is problem solving in the human race, not problem avoidance.
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness. |
Posted - 2007.08.20 18:23:00 - [ 37]
Originally by: Swirlar
Edited by: Swirlar on 20/08/2007 18:18:10
The author of this post is just another one of those nerftards.
So negative in your proposals, get rid if this, get rid of that.
Next time the enemies of your country trump you with some better technology; just ask them to get rid of it, eh? Stupid.
How about this, use your brain, come up with something better, a new mod or device that can deal with this kind of problem.
The answer to any problem will never be....get rid of the problem so it doesn't exit.
The answer to every problem must be to come up with a way to deal with the problem.
It's called a solution! There is problem solving in the human race, not problem avoidance.
mmm several time USSR and USA made such agreements to revert and don deploy new superior equipments (random re-entrance orbital warheads for example). So your observation is not valid. Speed problem in eve, on my point of view is paired to the Cloak problem. I live in a place that is supposed to be currenlty among the hottest zones in Eve, catch/querios frontier. And the only ships we see crossing the front are nano/cloaks. So there is almost no PVP (except PVP as in Patience vs POS). |
welsh wizard
0utbreak
KrautbreaK |
Posted - 2007.08.20 18:45:00 - [ 38]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 20/08/2007 18:45:31Didn't see this thread before I put up a similar one of my own: LinkageIn short I agree that perhaps CCP weren't severe enough with the 'need for speed' initiative. AS Jim says in the other thread part of the problem is the relatively cheap and widespread availability of cumulitive additions like implants, 'overpowered' mods etc that you can add to your ship. We are playing a less tactical game these days. The scope of grid warfare has been reduced significantly by very high speed ships and the hitpoint buff. Interesting topic anyway. |
SiJira |
Posted - 2007.08.20 19:00:00 - [ 39]
Originally by: Fenderson
has there been any definite word on graviton beams making it to TQ? they were testing for a while on sisi, and seemed like they would be a good counter to nano setups.
oh i loved the idea of those |
Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
|
Posted - 2007.08.20 19:33:00 - [ 40]
Edited by: Shevar on 20/08/2007 19:35:46 Quote:
FFS just bring a huggin, or a tanked dictor/ceptor, or some GOOD missle boat pilots, or spread your pilots out and drag him through multiple webs if he wants to try and kill anything, or use remote reps to keep your guys alive.
Besides the huggin the other things you mention are deterrents not ways to actually kill a speed fitted ship. Best option in my opinion would be to introduce weaker webs with significantly more range (ie. 50% web with 50km range). But then the intie pilots would probably cry... |
JonnyWarhawk
The Scope
|
Posted - 2007.08.20 19:47:00 - [ 41]
I am beyond confused. |
Gort
Minmatar
Federation of Freedom Fighters
En Garde |
Posted - 2007.08.20 19:56:00 - [ 42]
Originally by: SwindonBadger
Originally by: SiJira
hey guys i get it
since we nerfed everything including nos lets go back
lets go back to all the nerfs we did and nerf them more
speed was just about right, then they changed the nanno/intertial thingy and things got too fast, it got nerfed but just after that u had rigs apear and overheating/pills which then turned it all right up aqain to silly speeds before it was nerfed.
as for noss..... well thats should have been done along time agao, developing the game is a good thing... alot of that comes from refinement rather then adding new shiny stuff.
QFT. Speed is an essential tactical element in the game. That part is good. Extreme speed and its effects, however, is bad because it reduces situational complexity to a single controlling issue. Don't nerf speed. Nerf outrageous speed, which is obtained via excessive attribute stacking. Good grief, CCP, how many times can a ship have it's guts replaced with lighter stuff? Gorty |
sartorii
Genco
|
Posted - 2007.08.20 21:55:00 - [ 43]
as long as we have an arbitrary lock range we should also have an arbitrary speed limit.
Remove the lock range limits and Snipers will be able to hammer the nano****s before they close or as they attempt to leave. |
Nicholas Barker
Deez Nuts. |
Posted - 2007.08.20 22:07:00 - [ 44]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Nanosabre or really fast crow for the tackle?
somebody called? |
Savesti Kyrsst
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2007.08.20 22:27:00 - [ 45]
Originally by: Celeste Bane
Setups
Impressive top speeds. Now what is the speed of those last three ships in a 15-20km orbit, and how quickly do they change direction and get to warp? Also, how fast is the Claymore providing the bonuses, how many SP does it require and how expensive is it? |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings |
Posted - 2007.08.20 22:38:00 - [ 46]
It's seriously messed up when you need to resort to using two specific minmatar ships to handle speedfittings of all races.
Some more ships for the job would be nice. |
Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari |
Posted - 2007.08.20 22:47:00 - [ 47]
I am also someone whose playing time is seriously suffering from the speed-craze. I enjoy small scale slugging matches between heavily armed and armored ships, and I hate the silly nanosetups that simply cant be caught unless you stoop to nano yourself or have a Huggin or three (Which you won't have for long prolly either), but which can freely harrass you all the time without fearing consequences.
And since my corp moved to 0.0 where the speed craze is even more prevalent than in lowsec, I find myself logging in less and less because I know I will just not enjoy combat at all. Either nutty speeds or laggy fleets where the individual is of no consequence, both things I don't like. |
cuteboylookingatyou |
Posted - 2007.08.24 16:02:00 - [ 48]
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
It's seriously messed up when you need to resort to using two specific minmatar ships to handle speedfittings of all races.
Some more ships for the job would be nice.
Maybe everything needs a change. The speed of the fast ships. The tracking of the slower ships. The way the speed and damage is calculated and the forms of fighting these ship types. Remember that these fast ships have a hard time hitting anything themselves because of their dynamic and high transversal at all times. |
Nanobotter Mk2 |
Posted - 2007.08.24 17:46:00 - [ 49]
Quote:
Your talking about in gangs
FFS just bring a huggin, or a tanked dictor/ceptor, or some GOOD missle boat pilots, or spread your pilots out and drag him through multiple webs if he wants to try and kill anything, or use remote reps to keep your guys alive.
If your tacklers are good they should be able to pin him down long enough for the gang to make the kill, they will take losses but trading a 20mil ship for a 200mil ship seems like a good deal to me. If they can not acheive this then recruit better tacklers
right so you are suggesting it is reasonable to need to set up a minefield of players to try to web a player? this is your idea of balance LOL. sorry speed is broken i mean SEVERELY broken right now. I am sure all of us who love abusing it will mostly try to find thin life lines to hang on to inorder to defend it but in the end it is broken. there was a reason they removed the ability to equip 2 MWD. To be honest the cost doesn;t justify it either, it is like saying hey i spent 200 billion on my ship with 100% resists to all dmg I deserve it! anyway you slice it speed is a MAJOR issue and CCP needs to look into it. It literally makes 95% of eve ships useless, clearly something is wrong. |
prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Imperial Republic Of the North |
Posted - 2007.08.24 18:56:00 - [ 50]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Recruit someone who can fly a huginn.
yeah problem is most people dont skill minmatar because it's to hard and the ships arent pretty |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2007.08.24 19:05:00 - [ 51]
|
Zimjin
Caldari |
Posted - 2007.08.24 19:49:00 - [ 52]
They should just put in a "rattle" componet.
Beyond certain hull specific speed limits, your ship starts to rattle. You'll start taking direct hull damage and lose effectiveness of all ship systems except propulsion. You can rattle your ship to pieces if you keep it up.
Or put it in there with heat. Your hull max speed is X, your hull max safe speed is, say, X*20, which would be 8500 m/s for a Crow. MWD can take you past X but if you go past X*20 you start taking heat to all systems using the existing heat mechanics. The further you exceed it the more heat per second you take.
Risk vs Reward.
|
LVSOCOM
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition |
Posted - 2007.08.24 21:14:00 - [ 53]
Edited by: LVSOCOM on 24/08/2007 21:17:42
Large Webifiers that can reach 35km (20km opti + 15km fall off) but take more pg/cpu and are sig radius dependant. The better versions would have smaller "signature resolution," base being about the size of a domi or typhoon. Also fall off would work so that at 27km (mid range of fall off) the webifier is only apply 1/2 of whatever the target is being webbed to, after taking signature radius into account.
Idea isn't to nerf them into oblivion, but allow battleships to field a bigger web then a frigate or cruiser would but not replace the rapier/huginns niche. If the pg was in the 1500 area with say 30-35cpu, this would not be something you'd see every bs packing etheir. Espically not the ships that would want it the most (blaster megas).
Another thing I'd suggest is making the interia multiplier on 100mn MWDs (ALL, including deadspace and officer) considerably larger. A 6km/s BS isn't such a big deal when it can only orbit at about 2km/s with gang support. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech |
Posted - 2007.08.24 21:37:00 - [ 54]
Huginn with decent webber -> speed tank goes boooom |
Minmatar096773 |
Posted - 2007.08.31 10:23:00 - [ 55]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Huginn with decent webber -> speed tank goes boooom
When there are many speed ships and few counters should we expect a change soon even if we do not find a problem with it ourselves? |
Scordaf
Failure Assured
|
Posted - 2007.09.01 08:18:00 - [ 56]
Quote:
I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THE GAME SO THAT ONLY MY STYLE WORKS, I WANT TO CHANGE IT SO ALL STYLES WORK.
Amen. |
All Channels
EVE General Discussion
