Posted - 2007.07.20 04:23:00 - [2]

 

Originally by: Sharupak

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I see the list of companies and my corp is interesting in investing in itself, but I have no idea how this works

Can someone point me in the direction of investing

Mainly, is there a game mechanic to do this or is it all player run? If so, are there some loosely accepted methods/protocols to paying out dividends and how to split corporate shares to make more shares etc. etc.

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It's player run.

Step 1. Find somebody/corp you trust who has some shares on offer. (/muffled laugh)
Step 2. Give them isk. Loads and loads of isk. They give you shares in a corp.
Step 3. Pray hard you are not going to be ripped-off.
Step 4. Come back to these forums and report who ripped you off as a warning to everyone else not to do business with them.

Now there are variation on the themes with some charactors / operations that actually pay dividends and are working quite well. Read these forums for those names etc. I am not going to give free advertising.

In my opinion, most if not all of those operations as just a fraud waiting to happen. But that's just me rationalising a PvP game.

Perhaps one day CCP will deliver a robust and investor safe asset based share system, but until that day... be careful and research anyone or anything you sink your hard earned isk into.

Taikun

Posted - 2007.07.20 08:05:00 - [4]

 

FIN (off the top of my head, after working twelve hours) and a few others are secured against locked down assets w/ a board of trustees. If you're looking for security, then they're the way to go. However, they don't always pay as well as some of the more "free" investments (this, imo - some businesses lend themselves to high div's and security).

Oh, and please, when you come back with your experiences, put them in one thread. (this notsomuch directed at you, per se)

Posted - 2007.07.20 10:24:00 - [6]

 

Originally by: Taikun

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But in all honesty, if they want to scam you... they will given the current investment system CCP provides.

Taikun

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Generally Taikun and I don't see eye to eye, but I agree with the above statement 100%. There is no real true way to secure corporate assets/belongings, short of having someone else hold them. At this point, the onus is on the CEO of the corporation holding the stock.

In Eve, CEO is god. CEO isn't bound by corporate votes, lockdowns, or anything of the sort. There are ways to bypass these mechanisms relatively easily.

I would truly love to see ways CCP (does their economic analyst read these forums?) implement to help the community involved in this area. I don't expect CCP to provide tools to prevent scams, or anything like this.

I want CCP to provide ways for the players to govern themselves.

For example, the most simple thing, would be lockdowns. Right now, a CEO can obtain a locked down bpo without even needing a vote, by simply failing to pay rent on an office. When the rent expires, the locked down bpo will now be unlocked and sitting in the impounded hangar free to collect. Meanwhile, those shareholders still believe the bpo is locked down still.

I would like to see basically more abilities upon shareholders to govern the public corporations.

When a corporation is being started up, have a checkbox where you choose between running a public or private corporation.

Upon selecting a public corporation, have advanced options in play. For example, number of shares required, and CEO rules that are adhered too.

These may include, inability to unlock bpos (altho this should be considered a bug not a feature), inability to access a specific corporate wallet, and things like this. Obviously it would take some work to determine how/what to do, but it still should be something that CCP look to implement or at least research.

Posted - 2007.07.20 10:48:00 - [8]

 

Originally by: Ricdic

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I would truly love to see ways CCP (does their economic analyst read these forums?) implement to help the community involved in this area. I don't expect CCP to provide tools to prevent scams, or anything like this.

I want CCP to provide ways for the players to govern themselves.

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The simplest solution imho is to change the voting system slightly:
1) Allow non corp members with more than 5% of the shares to initiate a takeover vote
2) Allow each corp to set rules regarding voting. e.g. make BPO unlock votes run for 14 days, or make CEO takeover votes run for 30 days etc.
3) A vote to change the vote times would run for 30 days or until a majority of the shares are in favour of the vote.
4) Allow any director to implement an action that has been voted on and passed, rather than only the CEO.


Right now the CEO = god because the shareholders don't have the power to change things very easily (if at all).


There are other changes as well which I would love to see, namely rules for chorums and the like.

/Eefrit

Posted - 2007.07.20 12:02:00 - [10]

 

Originally by: BSAC Manager

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Unfortunately, there is nothing ccp could do or implement to prevent scams in this game. Even in the real world, where things are “secured”, scams happen all the time. Here is a good article about internet fraud. At the end it’s all about trust.

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I believe you failed to read our posts properly. Read it again and see what you come up with.

Posted - 2007.07.20 20:52:00 - [12]

 

*taking notes*

Thanks guys for the responses. Forgive my noobness, but when you are talking bpo, is that the same bpo as blueprint original?

I get the impression that the corporate shares are just in the corporate window as a number. You cant actually transfer them to people? or can you?

I mean it seems like someone has to keep the books for this stuff for the most part on a ledger in RL. Is there a display for who owns what share and the profit increase of the company?

Posted - 2007.07.20 23:32:00 - [14]

 

Corporate shares can be given to players, and then dividends can be paid out to those shares.

However, some operations, like locking down BPOs in a hangar, require a vote-via-share, therefore, imo, it's not the best idea to have your main corp's shares in the hands of everything (if nothing else, it makes those votes a pain in the ass). An alt corp works just fine though. (Non-members can get shares and receive dividends on them, so there's no problem there)

CCP recently (?) patched in the ability of director+ roles (at least, maybe others) to see who has the shares in a given corporation, so you can view that. The misc. accounting info all has to be done by hand, behind-the-scenes though.

Posted - 2007.07.22 05:53:00 - [16]

 

Originally by: Taikun

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Originally by: Ramblin Man

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I argued for two pages last time this came up. Not stepping into it again.

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Liar.

Taikun

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You know, there was a time before you descended on these boards.

Posted - 2007.07.22 16:04:00 - [18]

 

Originally by: Taikun

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Originally by: Ramblin Man

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Originally by: Taikun

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Originally by: Ramblin Man

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I argued for two pages last time this came up. Not stepping into it again.

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Liar.

Taikun

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You know, there was a time before you descended on these boards.

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Never before was the time so ripe for these boards to be graced with my posts.

Taikun

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Liar.

Ramblin

Posted - 2007.07.22 21:23:00 - [20]

 

Originally by: Fury Banker

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Originally by: Ricdic

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Right now, a CEO can obtain a locked down bpo without even needing a vote, by simply failing to pay rent on an office. When the rent expires, the locked down bpo will now be unlocked and sitting in the impounded hangar free to collect. Meanwhile, those shareholders still believe the bpo is locked down still.

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I don't know the answer to this for certain, but couldn't the same thing (access to a locked-down BPO) be got even quicker just by cancelling the office?

I've always seen the "our BPOs are locked down by trustees" claim to security as being largely smoke and mirrors - a lot of effort to try to demonstrate supposed security whilst not actually giving any.

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Uncertain on the specifics... but as far as perspectives go, and in the defense of all the hours put into secured IPOs, it could be equally either "smoke and mirrors" or "CCP fails, so we're doing the best we can."

Posted - 2007.07.23 02:51:00 - [22]

 

Originally by: Ramblin Man

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Corporate shares can be given to players, and then dividends can be paid out to those shares.

However, some operations, like locking down BPOs in a hangar, require a vote-via-share, therefore, imo, it's not the best idea to have your main corp's shares in the hands of everything (if nothing else, it makes those votes a pain in the ass). An alt corp works just fine though. (Non-members can get shares and receive dividends on them, so there's no problem there)

CCP recently (?) patched in the ability of director+ roles (at least, maybe others) to see who has the shares in a given corporation, so you can view that. The misc. accounting info all has to be done by hand, behind-the-scenes though.

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Ok, I see. Thats not so bad. We just have to be organized enough to have two people running the books and make sure they are reporting quarterly or monthly on stats. Its not foolproof, but nothing in this game is. I have found that being gunshy because of loss in this game gets you nowhere pretty fast. The fastest way to learn seems to be not to be attached to your isk and figure out how you lost it. LOL!

It sounds like CCP is giving this area of the game some attention and maybe soon it will be a major part of corporate operations. That would be very cool.