| Author |
Topic |
E Vile |
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:06:00 - [ 31]
Nerfs, and changing the game into "balanced" over simplified garbage is EXACTLY why I left Star Wars Galaxies, and from the looks of they way things have been treated could be why I also leave this.
Instead of breaking what works please devs...FIX WHAT NEEDS THE HELP INSTEAD.
There is NOTHING WORSE then training many months for something only to have it totally ruined resulting from crybaby nerf whiners. It is a TOTAL UNACCEPTABLE WAISTE OF PEOPLES TIME when they work hard twards something to have it yanked out from under them.
Again. Instead of nerfing things and waisting paying players time, please boost/fix what needs help instead. Don't listen to these crybabies who get their butt whooped and cry nerf over it.
|
Pseudo Ucksth
The First One is Always Free
Test Alliance Please Ignore |
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:14:00 - [ 32]
 Originally by: Drizit
...For the Nano BS, you had inty's with a webbers. Web them enough times and you have a dead BS because they gimped their own setups to gain speed...
Did you ever *fight* a nanophoon? Even if a inty could catch up to it, (since they could outrun all but the best fit intys) it would get popped before the other ships could get there and it would be gone again 150km away. Their setups did not gimp their nos and torps, and their extreme speed kept them from getting damaged by other battleships. The only practical way to stop them was with a huginn and a arazu. Nanophoons were getting extremely common. Minmatar recons were not growing in line to the nano threat. You want speed? Fit a overdrive. You want maneuverability? Fit a stab. This thread is like arguing with a whiny wall. Nomatter what you say, the wall will continue on with some new argument without acknowladging the old ones. |
Farrrr Que |
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:16:00 - [ 33]
/me nods
i left swg for the same reason , the constant nerfs and balancing killed it |
Mr Vrix
Caldari
Vrix Nation
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:25:00 - [ 34]
Edited by: Mr Vrix on 19/06/2007 18:25:33I fly a lot of EW ships, and the nerf did hit, however as been mentioned previously it is much more balanced now, you want EW you take the correct ship. hence after initially thinking they really messed up my game, its very much livable. The only change I would make is the ability to change out jammers in flight, much like crystals or missiles. Fitting a Scorp with a rack of Caldari specific jammers is a pita when its Amarr your facing;and puts you at a huge disadvantage. Before anyone jumps up and down thinking I just want to be able to jam any ship I come across think about it before posting. I want to be some what "effective" against any other ship, not asking for an iwin button here  Edit:Spelling hehe. |
Skywatch |
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:26:00 - [ 35]
Arms races happen in the real world. I like an EVE that has the arms race mentallity. Stop the nerf.....If something needs bonuses then add bonuses. Dont nerf everything to **** all. |
Silverized
0utbreak
Outbreak. |
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:36:00 - [ 36]
right, i think i missed the fact that people dont fit damage mods nowdays. the stacking nerf did however add the variety of fitting a tank:) |
Haffrage
Regeneration
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:40:00 - [ 37]
No no no, the proper fix to nanos was obviously a 90% increase to all web amounts, all webs would get a 70% increase in range, and the huginn/rapier gets an 80% bonus instead of just 60%. And a web effectiveness bonus!
Additionally, there needs to be a nos damp module, so you can royally eff up that goddamn nos domi instead of having to permajam it.
See guys? We don't need nerfs, we just need boosts! |
Sc0rpion
Faster Pussycat Kill Kill |
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:40:00 - [ 38]
Originally by: Kilostream
However, the reason solo-pwnmobiles aren't intended is because CCP wants us to play in groups and pull together to get things done.
Except we can't do that because when you gather up a large fleet to go pew pew, everything lags, and the game becomes unplayable right when you want it most.
So imho, before you go nerfing things that have unbalanced some solo ships, you should first prioritise getting a good stable server platform capable of handling fleet engagements.
This is the exact reason I left all that 0.0 stuff behind me. If you want to do anything meaningful, you better bring 250 friends, and the patience to put up with the lag that accompanies them. The occasional unbalanced ship setup (and I'm sorry, but a battleship moving at 30km/s IS unbalanced) is nothing compared to the stability problems we're experiencing 4 years after the game went gold. Here endeth the thread. |
Mr Li
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate |
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:46:00 - [ 39]
things like the damage mod stacking nerf are needed. Why? because it reduces variety. Using the example of damage mods: Amarr and Gallente have the most lowslots of the 4 races. As such they can fit the most damage mods. If Amarr and Gallente have the potential to do twice as much damage as any other race, then why use another? Caldari and Minmatar are unable to get the same damage because of a lack of lowslots, that is an imbalance.
the same happened for ECM, Amarr was screwed because of a lack of midslots. Only ships with abundant mids could fit multispecs and gave far too much of an advantage.
and the kestrel, as one of the highest DPS t1 frigs, it's great. I don't see how it'se useless, unless of course the only way for a frig to be useful, in the OPs opinion, is to be able to fit BS sized weapons. |
Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:57:00 - [ 40]
Originally by: Murtala
I liked EW warfare - it was nerfed so no one uses it much these days
I liked nanos, - it was nerfed and the modules are now useless
I liked cruise missiles on kestrels, now kestrels are useless.
I liked damage mods (blastertrons) - hardly anyone fits them
Next nerf will probably be nos and cloaking mods. Then they will be useless too
(sarcastic) Then we can all have fun with the same "balanced" guns all "balanced" against each other. Next we can get CCP to find a way so that only equally matched gangs can attack each other. So that it is a "balanced" fight. If done properly, the fight should end in a draw and all can be happy (sarcastism ends)
I like variety. I like to fit a different mod that may outsmart an opponent's setup. But as soon as that mod is found and more people use it, it gets nerfed, not by a little bit, but to render them completely useless.
In time when Eve get total "balanced" out and we are all fighting "balanced" fights and forum whiners are hunting out the last un-"balanced" aspect of the game to nerf, I willingly give you my stuff. Cos me mates keep asking me to join them on a nicely "balanced" "Battlefield 2142" and I need to finish Oblivion.
Bring back variety. Off to play a bit off Deus Ex original.
You high on something ? EW is very much used today like before, just the mode changed from ECM Multispectral to RSD II + TD II. No more nano's ? Well, no more nano's on anything, but nano-curse with EW tank is a ... killer. Vaga is still damn fast, nano-phoon still exists but you can't have it for 200m ISK like you had it before. Wait a secod, you actually thought that firing BS sized "guns" from a frigate is OK ? Or you actually thought that 8x HS gankageddon was ... OK ? As for hardly anyone fits them ... tell it to many who fly neutron-mega's with 3x HS II and passive armor tank. May i suggest playing WoW on a privat server with GM powers ? |
Murtala
Mushin Market |
Posted - 2007.06.19 19:04:00 - [ 41]
Originally by: Setana Manoro
You high on something ?
keep it civil dude, Please understand, I appreciate some setups were deadly in the right hands, ie nanophoon, ew, nos domi, cruise kestetrl, sniping tempest (ah the days) etc,. All I am saying is that there should be a way to tune down the mods a bit so those setups can still be used to slightly lesser effectiveness. Also like someone said, maybe boost the counters. In EW for instance, jamming modules were nerfed by 50% and the anti jamming mods, ie "backup arrays" were boosted by 100%. This made jamming a ship difficult and impossible if target fitted a backup array. Since this is chance based it safer to not fit EW at all and traders would have noticed a slump in the EW market entirely. The only electronic warfare worth using is sensor damping A slight nerf to jammers of 10% and boost "back up" arrays by 50% would have made jamming still a viaable option and the counter still boosted. Similar slight nerf to nano so that typhoon are not that fast but your agent mission loot hauling sigil is still useful would have been better. Some of these nerfs like the missile and nano nerfs have affected not just the pvp player but mission runners too. I apologise for not using my main. Forum posting is banned in my corp and I fear flaming, but I have been around for a while and probably be around longer than I should |
Iyanah
Minmatar
Tuikoax
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 19:07:00 - [ 42]
Originally by: Murtala
And here is another nerf I remember - missiles. Basically missile were only allowed to hit a ship and do damage to the ship according to the size of the ship.
Previously, it used to be that a torpedo missile did a specific amount of damage against any ship it hit. But that got nerfed so that the amount of damage the torpedo did against another ship depended on the size of the target.
So say a BS fired a torpedo which normally does 450 hp on another BS, hits a frigate, because the frigate is so small, it only does a fraction of the damage, often around 45hp.
(sarcasm)this is in line with all othe sci-fi or real life situations. Imagine a torpedo hitting a rowing boat, only a fraction of the damage, true, but you won't even get DNA samples from the debris in other scifi or rl. (sarcasm ends)
But in eve, the rowing boat shrugs off the torps because the rowing boats are small and need forum-whiner love and nerfing was inline with CCP balancing policy.
Sad.
that's because all missiles hit 100% of the time, and because all turrets are less effective at hitting smaller, faster ships. basicly, what you want is a kestral that can move 8km a second, fire cruise missiles that do 100% of their base damage to anything in range 100% of the time, whilst being able to cloak and jam any ship you encounter? basicly your whole rant is "i don't have a single ship that can fill every role perfectly at the same time". we have fleets comprised of recon ships, battleships, frigates and interdictors, why? because a recon ship jams up the enemy targeting, the battleships do the DPS, the dictors and the frigates warp scramble and web to prevent escape (i know i simplified it, i couldn't be bothered adding every ship class and it's potential role). this is the way it should be - team work, balanced forces. not rolling in with 20 geddons armed to the teeth, or 20 nanophoons moving so fast they can't be hit by anything and they don't need to go to warp to reach your POS, they might as well bloody well fly there! (alright, exageration, i know, but it makes my point). |
Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar
54th Knights Templar
THORN Alliance |
Posted - 2007.06.19 19:07:00 - [ 43]
Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 19/06/2007 19:10:38 Quote:
I liked nanos, - it was nerfed and the modules are now useless
They're not? Oh, gosh, I better fix my ships, cause I still have one fitted on several so I can get full speed from my MWD or AB. I should probably remove all my ewar modules too.. either that or maybe I should stop thinking creatively and find whatever cookie cutter website you're using so I know how to fit my ship like "everyone else" :P |
Garia666
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire |
Posted - 2007.06.19 19:12:00 - [ 44]
agreed.. the geddon use to be giving out lots of dmg now its nerfed to..
anyway try to fly a rook its a joke.. a big one.. |
Trishan
Green Men Incorporated |
Posted - 2007.06.19 19:28:00 - [ 45]
Originally by: Haffrage
No no no, the proper fix to nanos was obviously a 90% increase to all web amounts, all webs would get a 70% increase in range, and the huginn/rapier gets an 80% bonus instead of just 60%. And a web effectiveness bonus!
A 70% increase in range? I take you don't fly minnie ships or anything else that needs to stay out of web range, or you aren't serious. I still have to see what are the real effects of the heat thing on webs (30% range?), but that's going to eat DPS from some ships because you will have to orbit 3k further away or die. |
Drizit
Amarr |
Posted - 2007.06.20 16:13:00 - [ 46]
Originally by: Pseudo Ucksth
Originally by: Drizit
...For the Nano BS, you had inty's with a webbers. Web them enough times and you have a dead BS because they gimped their own setups to gain speed...
Did you ever *fight* a nanophoon? Even if a inty could catch up to it, (since they could outrun all but the best fit intys) it would get popped before the other ships could get there and it would be gone again 150km away. Their setups did not gimp their nos and torps, and their extreme speed kept them from getting damaged by other battleships. The only practical way to stop them was with a huginn and a arazu. Nanophoons were getting extremely common. Minmatar recons were not growing in line to the nano threat. You want speed? Fit a overdrive. You want maneuverability? Fit a stab.
This thread is like arguing with a whiny wall. Nomatter what you say, the wall will continue on with some new argument without acknowladging the old ones.
The obvious answer is fight fire with fire. NanoBS v nanoBS, no matter how you avoid it, someone will always come up with a way to obtain a setup which outclasses all the rest. In the event that it can't be matched or outclassed, it's time for CCP to create something new that can. Let's have a reason for introducing content as well as just adding new ships and ship classes for the sake of it. During the RL wars, a lot of new things were invented in response to threats that otherwise couldn't be countered. I don't imagine anyone petitioned the creators of those uber war machines to nerf them, instead they thought of new ways and invented new things to counter them. I thought this game was about using your grey matter instead of dumbing the game down to the point where you don't have to. |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.06.20 16:24:00 - [ 47]
So you're whining that they removed overpowered setups?
Well, buddy boy, bring back all those things you mentionned... I'll be waiting for you in my 8x HSII Geddon. I hope you like seeing your BS go kaboom in two volleys mate. |
Arachidamia
Minmatar
Matari People's Front |
Posted - 2007.06.20 16:30:00 - [ 48]
Originally by: Drizit
I thought this game was about using your grey matter instead of dumbing the game down to the point where you don't have to.
You say use your brains.. yet your idea for countering nano BS was to... use a nano BS. Woah, now that's brain power! As stated above all those things needed nerfing. They were so mind numbingly overpowering that everyone had them. There is no brains in seeing someone else fly a pwnmobile and copying it because it's the only ship setup that can compete. |
Tasuric Orka
Antares Fleet Yards
Molotov Coalition |
Posted - 2007.06.20 16:31:00 - [ 49]
EW is still useful, try not using the multispec, and try tweaking your setup to srengthen the specific jammers, you'll see.
Nano's were overpowered, why? simply because fitting enough of them resulted in near invulnerability to normal weapons, both guns and missiles. Only defence was to fit them yourself on a race specific ship, or some expensive recon.
kestral/cruise argument not worth discussing, rediculous.
what? |
|
All Channels
EVE General Discussion
