| Author |
Topic |
Murtala
Mushin Market |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:37:00 - [ 1]
There are too many nerf requests which in time will make this game one dimensional and over "balanced" and we loose variety.
I liked EW warfare - it was nerfed so no one uses it much these days
I liked nanos, - it was nerfed and the modules are now useless
I liked cruise missiles on kestrels, now kestrels are useless.
I liked damage mods (blastertrons) - hardly anyone fits them
Next nerf will probably be nos and cloaking mods. Then they will be useless too
(sarcastic) Then we can all have fun with the same "balanced" guns all "balanced" against each other. Next we can get CCP to find a way so that only equally matched gangs can attack each other. So that it is a "balanced" fight. If done properly, the fight should end in a draw and all can be happy (sarcastism ends)
I like variety. I like to fit a different mod that may outsmart an opponent's setup. But as soon as that mod is found and more people use it, it gets nerfed, not by a little bit, but to render them completely useless.
In time when Eve get total "balanced" out and we are all fighting "balanced" fights and forum whiners are hunting out the last un-"balanced" aspect of the game to nerf, I willingly give you my stuff. Cos me mates keep asking me to join them on a nicely "balanced" "Battlefield 2142" and I need to finish Oblivion.
Bring back variety. Off to play a bit off Deus Ex original.
|
justcheckingthemarket |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:41:00 - [ 2]
 Originally by: Murtala
I liked damage mods (blastertrons) - hardly anyone fits them
LOL |
Detrol
Caldari |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:45:00 - [ 3]
Edited by: Detrol on 19/06/2007 15:46:31In my opinion, these nerfs add variety instead of removing it. * ECM? Everybody had at least 1 multi fitted. PVP fights were all about who jams who first * nano's were instawin and everybody was trying to fit em. Those were the only ships you encountered in 0.0 * kestrels useless? Equally useless to the other frigs *cough*, at least now you see the other frigates around again. If you really liked the cruise missiles, go for the manti. * no experience with blastertrons so won't comment there. You still encounter ECM fitted ships, but as it should, they are specialized ships. When there's one module that's overpowered, you know your opponent will have it fitted and it removes the surprise factor. It's just comes down to who has more or better versions of the same module fitted. I don't call that variety. After reading your post again, I see you agree with me: Originally by: Murtala
I like to fit a different mod that may outsmart an opponent's setup. But as soon as that mod is found and more people use it, it gets nerfed, not by a little bit, but to render them completely useless.
|
Jex Jast
Go for the booty |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:46:00 - [ 4]
Alright you shoot me an evemail when you're quitting, contract it to me wherever, I'll take it off your hands. Um but yeah. As far as what you're talking about in the op... EW, I know nothing. Nanos, they are now the equivalent of fitting half an inertial stabilizer and half an overdrive injector, to make one mod, but with different penalties (structure instead of the cargo space (overdrive) or the...is there one for I-stabs?) Kestrels are still VERY useful...you lie if you say otherwise. Damage mods, I was not around until after that nerf (happened before August 05 right?) And anyway I never delved into those much. Regardless, nerfs will happen, but I doubt we'll ever reach such a "balanced" point as you say that the situation you describe would become real. Oh and it's sarcasm btw not sarcastism  |
Bryg Philomena
Don't Taze Me Bro |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:49:00 - [ 5]
Originally by: Murtala
I liked EW warfare - it was nerfed so no one uses it much these days
Hell I fly a domi, with 2 of my mid slots dedicated to specailized ECM. It isn't omgwtfpwn, but it helps me. I have gotten lucky and have kept a BC jammed for the entire fight pretty much. But that doesnt happen always. I try to fit what I know I will be fighting. If I dont know, I tend to fit Caldari. They can do a lot of damage and since they always hit... |
Murtala
Mushin Market |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:55:00 - [ 6]
A nerf too far Originally by: Jex Jast
EW, I know nothing.
Dude, there are many aspects of the game that have been nerfed and you will not experience and newer players will never experience. These aspect where the reason you heard about the game and decided to join. The variety. While we can justify each individual nerf as a good thing, overall the variety is becoming less. The good thing is that I have enough isk to buy enough GTC for the next few years while I wait for variety to return to eve. If not, I . . .shrug. When isk runs out account lapses or I run more agent mission to raise isk for a few more years of GTC. Is no biggie for me as I play other games. |
Skoodwask |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:55:00 - [ 7]
Edited by: Skoodwask on 19/06/2007 15:56:18 Originally by: Murtala
I liked damage mods (blastertrons) - hardly anyone fits them
Ya! bring back 5k dps megathrons please! Btw this nerf did add variety.... now at most people fit 2-3 damage mods and then a variety of other things. Before you would see some load outs with 7 damage mods... wheres the variety in that. |
Avan Strega
Entity.
WE FORM VOLTRON |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:59:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: "Murtala"
I liked EW warfare - it was nerfed so no one uses it much these days
I liked nanos, - it was nerfed and the modules are now useless
I liked cruise missiles on kestrels, now kestrels are useless.
I liked damage mods (blastertrons) - hardly anyone fits them
people still use EW - just now there's less people fitting 1 multispec to their domi or whatever and winning. EW is now more limited to specialised ships, in my experience, which I think is as it should be. nanos are far from useless - on ships that are meant to go fast (see: vagabond, interceptors, etc). 8km/s battleships was a bit of a joke tbh, they were unkillable without minmatar recons, pretty much. cruise missiles on a frigate - as someone else already said, if you want cruise missiles and a small ship, train stealth bombers. noone uses damage mods? sorry, what? |
Sc0rpion
Faster Pussycat Kill Kill |
Posted - 2007.06.19 15:59:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: Murtala
I liked EW warfare - it was nerfed so no one uses it much these days
EW was nerfed because every single ship was using them. Originally by: Murtala
I liked nanos, - it was nerfed and the modules are now useless
Nanos were nerfed because every single ship was using them. Originally by: Murtala
I liked cruise missiles on kestrels, now kestrels are useless.
Cruise Kestrels were nerfed because every single Kestrel was using them, and every single frigate was a Kestrel. Originally by: Murtala
I liked damage mods (blastertrons) - hardly anyone fits them
I'm guessing you're refering to m0o and their 8x stamped heatsink 'geddeons. Guess why they were nerfed? That's right, Every single 'geddeon was fitting them, and every BS was a 'geddeon. Originally by: Murtala
Next nerf will probably be nos and cloaking mods. Then they will be useless too
Show of hands - Who doesn't fit nos? Show of hands - Who doesn't throw a cloak on their haulers/0.0 ratting ships? Are we detecting a trend here? |
Murtala
Mushin Market |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:01:00 - [ 10]
Originally by: Skoodwask
Originally by: Murtala
I liked damage mods (blastertrons) - hardly anyone fits them
Ya! bring back 5k dps megathrons please!
Lol, I don’t think they did that much dps, but instead of removing the blastertron or nanoships, or Ew ship from the game, they could have turned down the effectiveness down by a little notch or two. Basically tune them down a little so we can still see a nano fight a ew or blastertron. Now they are basically historical relics never to be seen again. |
Eleanor Tarschko |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:11:00 - [ 11]
Originally by: Murtala
Lol, I don’t think they did that much dps, but instead of removing the blastertron or nanoships, or Ew ship from the game, they could have turned down the effectiveness down by a little notch or two.
Ever heard of a Scorpion? Yup? BS designed specifically for EW. |
d026
temp holding
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:14:00 - [ 12]
Edited by: d026 on 19/06/2007 16:14:01 Quote:
Lol, I don’t think they did that much dps, but instead of removing the blastertron or nanoships, or Ew ship from the game, they could have turned down the effectiveness down by a little notch or two.
if you want to jamm get a scorp/rook. do you fit a shieldbooster on your mega? |
Mud Pandemonium
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:16:00 - [ 13]
You miss your cruise Kestrels *snip be nice -Yips
Did you even check the patch notes? Spend a wee bit more time training and just fly a Manticore.
Or are the huge bonuses to damage frightening?
|
Jacob Castillo
Caldari
Eternal Perseverance
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:17:00 - [ 14]
Originally by: Murtala
Lol, I don’t think they did that much dps, but instead of removing the blastertron or nanoships, or Ew ship from the game, they could have turned down the effectiveness down by a little notch or two.
Basically tune them down a little so we can still see a nano fight a ew or blastertron. Now they are basically historical relics never to be seen again.
WTF are you on? Blasterthrons still exist! I fly them, and so does 75% of my corp. |
Murtala
Mushin Market |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:26:00 - [ 15]
And here is another nerf I remember - missiles. Basically missile were only allowed to hit a ship and do damage to the ship according to the size of the ship.
Previously, it used to be that a torpedo missile did a specific amount of damage against any ship it hit. But that got nerfed so that the amount of damage the torpedo did against another ship depended on the size of the target.
So say a BS fired a torpedo which normally does 450 hp on another BS, hits a frigate, because the frigate is so small, it only does a fraction of the damage, often around 45hp.
(sarcasm)this is in line with all othe sci-fi or real life situations. Imagine a torpedo hitting a rowing boat, only a fraction of the damage, true, but you won't even get DNA samples from the debris in other scifi or rl. (sarcasm ends)
But in eve, the rowing boat shrugs off the torps because the rowing boats are small and need forum-whiner love and nerfing was inline with CCP balancing policy.
Sad. |
JamesTalon
Caldari
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:28:00 - [ 16]
For the record, I went a few months doing nothing but EWar during a corp war. Scorpion and Blackbird, when fitted properly, prevent the enemy corp's CEO from returning a single shot, as well as the Domi that was chasing me with its drones. Its still very useful on the right ships. |
Nasair |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:31:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: Murtala
And here is another nerf I remember - missiles. Basically missile were only allowed to hit a ship and do damage to the ship according to the size of the ship.
Previously, it used to be that a torpedo missile did a specific amount of damage against any ship it hit. But that got nerfed so that the amount of damage the torpedo did against another ship depended on the size of the target.
So say a BS fired a torpedo which normally does 450 hp on another BS, hits a frigate, because the frigate is so small, it only does a fraction of the damage, often around 45hp.
(sarcasm)this is in line with all othe sci-fi or real life situations. Imagine a torpedo hitting a rowing boat, only a fraction of the damage, true, but you won't even get DNA samples from the debris in other scifi or rl. (sarcasm ends)
But in eve, the rowing boat shrugs off the torps because the rowing boats are small and need forum-whiner love and nerfing was inline with CCP balancing policy.
Sad.
Think of it more as a nuke missile trying to hit a jet plane |
Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:34:00 - [ 18]
Originally by: Murtala
I liked EW warfare - it was nerfed so no one uses it much these days
i was about to make an alt with the name "no one" but i felt it was too much work... no you cant have my rook |
Murtala
Mushin Market |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:35:00 - [ 19]
Originally by: Nasair
Originally by: Murtala
And here is another nerf I remember - missiles. Basically missile were only allowed to hit a ship and do damage to the ship according to the size of the ship.
Previously, it used to be that a torpedo missile did a specific amount of damage against any ship it hit. But that got nerfed so that the amount of damage the torpedo did against another ship depended on the size of the target.
So say a BS fired a torpedo which normally does 450 hp on another BS, hits a frigate, because the frigate is so small, it only does a fraction of the damage, often around 45hp.
(sarcasm)this is in line with all othe sci-fi or real life situations. Imagine a torpedo hitting a rowing boat, only a fraction of the damage, true, but you won't even get DNA samples from the debris in other scifi or rl. (sarcasm ends)
But in eve, the rowing boat shrugs off the torps because the rowing boats are small and need forum-whiner love and nerfing was inline with CCP balancing policy.
Sad.
Think of it more as a nuke missile trying to hit a jet plane
dude, in thoes circumstances, the jet plane AND his post code would be obliterated. Signature radius would not be the issue |
Nasair |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:46:00 - [ 20]
Edited by: Nasair on 19/06/2007 16:49:11
Edited by: Nasair on 19/06/2007 16:47:48
Yeah but your using a big slow missile against something that can go 3 times the speed of sound, the likelyhood of you getting the jet in the blast radius propper is very small.
Armor in eve is very strong, it can take a nuke blast, now since everything is worked out with hp a blast like this:
| ------------>
| ---------->|
| ------------>
| ---------->|
| ---------->|
| ---------->|
Some of the energy is useless in the first case, it impacts nothing. |
Asestorian
Domination. |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:55:00 - [ 21]
Ok so basically, this thread is just some alt whining about every single little thing it can.
Wonderful. |
Doppleganger
Minmatar
Band of Builders Inc.
Sodalitas XX |
Posted - 2007.06.19 16:58:00 - [ 22]
Originally by: Murtala
And here is another nerf I remember - missiles. Basically missile were only allowed to hit a ship and do damage to the ship according to the size of the ship.
Previously, it used to be that a torpedo missile did a specific amount of damage against any ship it hit. But that got nerfed so that the amount of damage the torpedo did against another ship depended on the size of the target.
So say a BS fired a torpedo which normally does 450 hp on another BS, hits a frigate, because the frigate is so small, it only does a fraction of the damage, often around 45hp.
(sarcasm)this is in line with all othe sci-fi or real life situations. Imagine a torpedo hitting a rowing boat, only a fraction of the damage, true, but you won't even get DNA samples from the debris in other scifi or rl. (sarcasm ends)
But in eve, the rowing boat shrugs off the torps because the rowing boats are small and need forum-whiner love and nerfing was inline with CCP balancing policy.
Sad.
Well yeah many things were broking and needed fixing (what you call nerfing in these cases) I would still like to have my tempest with stacking gyros and 1400mms that didnt know what sig radius & tracking is so I can go back to insta popping frigs. Better yet give me back my dual mwd raven or rupture so I lob missiles at ppl and never have to get hit. Get real most of what ccp does fixes the game then breaks it. (most of the time) |
Laboratus
Gallente
Invicta.
Cry Havoc. |
Posted - 2007.06.19 17:11:00 - [ 23]
I agree with the op.
Since the EW nerf, I haven't been succesfully jammed since even with specialised ships. Not once. And before it I used to fit ECCM and got jammed, maybe one time out of ten.
Every nerf they have done has been totaly overboard, overkill.
At the moment all the modules deviating from the "dps+tank and tackle" have been or are being nerfed to **** and as such you pretty much only see standard setups, since you don't gain anything from deviating from standard tactics. You onlylose efficiency. And that is bad. And sad.
It's getting boring. Very much so. |
Phoenix Lord
The Scope
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 17:13:00 - [ 24]
Ok i seriously hope this guy is some guy using an alt to screw around.... Those complaints are completely ******ed. Dont feed the trolls! |
I'Bin Pharteen
Barge Insurance Company Relief |
Posted - 2007.06.19 17:38:00 - [ 25]
Originally by: Murtala
(sarcasm)this is in line with all othe sci-fi or real life situations. Imagine a torpedo hitting a rowing boat, only a fraction of the damage, true, but you won't even get DNA samples from the debris in other scifi or rl. (sarcasm ends)
But in eve, the rowing boat shrugs off the torps because the rowing boats are small and need forum-whiner love and nerfing was inline with CCP balancing policy.
Sad.
And what would the odds be for a torpedo to be able to actually hit a rowing boat? If the torpedo really did hit a rowboat, it would never explode, it would just tear right through it or take a chunk off of it (about 45hp) and it would eventually sink. |
Drizit
Amarr |
Posted - 2007.06.19 17:42:00 - [ 26]
Originally by: Sc0rpion
Are we detecting a trend here?
Yes, an obvious trend. But if you think about it, nerfing creates that trend. If you nerf the best option, the next best then becomes the best. The problem with nerfing it is that soon you have nothing worth putting on your ship and the game soon becomes boring. One day, every ship will be a ship and every gun will be a gun. All equally matched for the sake of preventing players gaining too much of an edge in their setups. For every setup, there is a counter but it requires players to find it rather than scream for a nerf on the forums. For the Nano BS, you had inty's with a webbers. Web them enough times and you have a dead BS because they gimped their own setups to gain speed. What is it with Eve players lately that they can't think of ways to counter a setup and start screaming for nerfs instead? What's with players now who often say "live with it" on the forums when new players post whines but whine just as loudly themselves about things like the Nano BS etc? The nano nerf affected much more than the nano BS and killed off a lot of good defensive setups for transports and industrials that needed the extra speed to get past gatecamps. In cases where counters are near impossible, What about CCP adding content that helps to counter it instead of nerfing what is already there? This game is being too dumbed down. At the rate things are being nerfed now, Eve won't be worth playing soon, everything will be so slow and easy that a 3 year old could play it. |
Laboratus
Gallente
Invicta.
Cry Havoc. |
Posted - 2007.06.19 17:50:00 - [ 27]
Edited by: Laboratus on 19/06/2007 17:59:25
yawn |
Kilostream
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance |
Posted - 2007.06.19 17:51:00 - [ 28]
I'm not too sure..
In terms of pure right/wrong-ness, the balances usually do make a kind of sense - in as much as we're not supposed to have solo-pwnmobiles - and lets face it, there were a few out there.
However, the reason solo-pwnmobiles aren't intended is because CCP wants us to play in groups and pull together to get things done.
Except we can't do that because when you gather up a large fleet to go pew pew, everything lags, and the game becomes unplayable right when you want it most.
So imho, before you go nerfing things that have unbalanced some solo ships, you should first prioritise getting a good stable server platform capable of handling fleet engagements.
Lag is killing eve - it HAS to be the priority before fussing around with 'balance' and in that sense I agree with you, but in absolute terms, the solo-pwnmobiles aren't supposed to be massively more powerful than ther class-counterparts, and if unforseen setups bring that situation about, you can't blame them too much for trying to iron it out.
|
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm. |
Posted - 2007.06.19 17:54:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: Murtala
I liked EW warfare - it was nerfed so no one uses it much these days
You should do a gang op sometime. You will see... recons. And for each one, a T1 version. |
Natalia Fachiri
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in |
Posted - 2007.06.19 18:04:00 - [ 30]
THe missile does not hot the enemy ship. THe missile explodes near the ship and the blast hits the ship. the smaller the ship, the less blast hits it. |
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