Posted - 2007.06.19 14:09:00 - [91]

 

wts brain

Posted - 2007.06.19 14:13:00 - [93]

 

Mega has its role even when its dying when trying, but it has its role. If you cant properly fit your mega and then whine about it, you suck. If you know how to fit it and smile after a kill, you´re elite. I dont see your problem.

Posted - 2007.06.19 15:24:00 - [95]

 

Originally by: Jin Entres

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Well, he has some points. Less damage versus better tanks. It's a problem for all blaster ships. It's increasingly difficult to reach and stay in blaster range with speed setups more common.

The biggest problem, however, in my opinion is cap usage. Not only is cap more under attack by nos, but the increased length of engagements has obviously also increased the amount of time needed to run guns, tackling, propulsion and tank. Blasterships were already weak in this regard, relying on killing their opponents before cap death.

7 Ion II's consume 25.6 cap/s* which equals roughly 2½ heavy nos on you constantly. Megathron with maxed cap skills and MWD fitted has a peak recharge (2.4x modifier) of 14.6 cap/s. That is, it can't even sustain the guns, much less anything else. A T2 heavy injector provides 57 cap/s, so after guns there is 46 cap/s. LAR II is 35.5, scrambler and web are about 5 total, and all other modules such as hardeners and damage control are maybe 3 more, which puts the capacitor status at about +2 cap/s.

That means both A. that there is practically zero margin for being nossed to sustain it and B. that MWD's usage is drained from max cap, which usually means that it's used to get in range, bringing the cap down near the 30-40% peak spot.

And that's with just one repper. Considering battleships that use weapon systems that do not require cap (Typhoon, Tempest, Maelstrom, Dominix (mostly), Raven) can do competitive damage while tanking considerably better and even having better range and better fitting options, even utility slots for nos with guns, I would definitely argue that blasterthrons and hypes are disadvantaged.

I don't want them to be buffed hugely, but I would appreciate it if the cap issue was addressed.

* With:
2 MFS II
3% RoF Hardwiring
Gunnery V
Rapid Firing V
Controlled Bursts IV

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Please tell me you didn't say a torp raven has competitive damage to a blasterthron.
I'm caldari specced, and I have enough sense to have controlled burst to 5, what is your excuse?

Posted - 2007.06.19 15:40:00 - [97]

 

Edited by: Comanche Banshee on 19/06/2007 15:39:18

Originally by: murder one

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Blasterthrons are quickly becoming a rarity in PVP due to the skills required to fly them (both in skillpoints and pilot experience) and the cost to operate one effectively.

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Blasterthrons need maxed out skills in order to get that last 10-15% DPS increase in order to compete with the tremendous tanking increases brought about by rigs and the Tier 3 battleships. It's quite easy to build a Rokh or Maelstrom or Dominx, or even a Typhoon with relatively little ISK and less than maximum skills that is competitive with other battleship setups in PVP. With the Blasterthron (and also the Blaster Hype), if you don't have every applicable skill to five, you're probably going to die in a 1v1 fight with another BS if it's properly fit for PVP.

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I can fly Minmatar, Caldari and Gallente BS with equal effectiveness (I won't touch Amarr, as they're completely worthless, with the EANM change just making it worse), but I'm sticking with my Blasterthron. It just doesn't feel right defeating my targets with a battleship fit with more nos than guns. Or all nos and torp launchers. There just isn't any skill or style in it.

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Cheers CCP. Keep the nerfs coming. Pretty soon no one will be flying anything that doesn't use nos or capless weapons, and no one will ever undock unless they have at least a four man gang for backup. Looks like a bright future.

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Oh cry me a river, I mean really dude you are complaining about a ship that is still VERY capable in PvP, and seeing that you admit you won't touch the hardest race (Amarr, which is ALL I fly btw) you don't even know what it is to struggle in PvP. Bar none the Gallente still have plenty of advantages over the other races seeing that their blasters are the still some of the hardest hitting weapon up close and their drones are second to NOBODY, you have no room to be complaining.

Posted - 2007.06.19 15:48:00 - [99]

 

Originally by: Dawson

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Originally by: Dawson

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Originally by: James Duar

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Originally by: Dawson

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what do you expect its a tier 1 BS. nuff said.

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It's a tier 2 BS.

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lmao owned.

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is it really? I thought Armageddon was tier 1, Apocalypse tier 2, Abaddon tier 3.

intact i'm sure of it, not that I can check in game at the moment.

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Quote:

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Armageddon
>Primary Skill required
>Amarr Battleship I

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defo tier 1

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This is a megathron thread.

Twice in one day, not doing so well are we?

Posted - 2007.06.19 15:59:00 - [101]

 

People flaming Murder One are mongs. For the most part, he's right. Although the problem isn't restricted to Blasterthrons, but to DPS boats in their entirity, Anything from Blasterthrons to Taranis' or Abbadon to Retribution. Pure DPS ships simply do not cut it in PVP anymore.

The problem is that tanking has been consistantly buffed with each patch and firepower has more or less remained the same, all this has promoted is the overuse of NOS. You can't break a good tank with 1k damage per second, so you need to blast the cap of your target to turn that damn tank off first. It is such a horribly boring way to fight.

Also, you'll find that the Gallente ships most people whinge about aren't the Blaster ships, but the drone ships. Arguably the biggest abusers of nos setups there are. Anyone that thinks Blasterships are overpowered needs to go and have a good long look at them again.

Posted - 2007.06.19 16:46:00 - [103]

 

Originally by: Dawson

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Originally by: Dawson

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Originally by: James Duar

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Originally by: Dawson

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what do you expect its a tier 1 BS. nuff said.

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It's a tier 2 BS.

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lmao owned.

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is it really? I thought Armageddon was tier 1, Apocalypse tier 2, Abaddon tier 3.

intact i'm sure of it, not that I can check in game at the moment.

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Quote:

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Armageddon
>Primary Skill required
>Amarr Battleship I

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defo tier 1

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What planet are you from?

We're talking about the Megathron.

Dominix t1
Megathron t2
Hyperion t3

Get blushing some more please.

Posted - 2007.06.19 16:53:00 - [105]

 

Originally by: Jim McGregor

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Murder one, you really need to stop posting the same things over and over again. I havent ever seen you post about something that is not gallente. Seems to me that you just want to boost your own race here.

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This.

Posted - 2007.06.19 17:06:00 - [107]

 

Hmmm,

I kinda see maybe what the OP is saying. In the begining, before Dreads, Carriers and even tech2. The Megathron was THE ship. You could go on the trade channel and people were paying rediculous sums of money to get one. It was the most feared ship in the game. I feel then it was overpowered but not by much. In contrast, Mimitar stuff with a couple of exceptions was complete junk. However, I think some changes in game mechanics and probably even more so, people experimenting with different setups and tactics made ships like the tempest competitive.

So I would agree with the reduction in dominance, but its not that bad!

Posted - 2007.06.19 17:15:00 - [109]

 

Originally by: Sharupak

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Hmmm,

I kinda see maybe what the OP is saying. In the begining, before Dreads, Carriers and even tech2. The Megathron was THE ship. You could go on the trade channel and people were paying rediculous sums of money to get one. It was the most feared ship in the game. I feel then it was overpowered but not by much. In contrast, Mimitar stuff with a couple of exceptions was complete junk. However, I think some changes in game mechanics and probably even more so, people experimenting with different setups and tactics made ships like the tempest competitive.

So I would agree with the reduction in dominance, but its not that bad!

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Its not because they were overpowered, it was because it oozed awesomeness on a scale not seen since the Prophet Awesome decended from Mt Awesome with a 6 pack in one hand and a minigun on the other :P

Blasterthrons had character at the time, only seriously mad players took a ship with such short ranged weapons to kill things, now their kinda rubbish :P People also didn't know how to counter them back then, because everyone flew gank setups until they caught onto EWAR and started abusing that.

Posted - 2007.06.19 17:18:00 - [111]

 

Originally by: E Vile

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Edited by: E Vile on 19/06/2007 08:09:52
Sorry, but you are completely full of it.

No Tier 3 BS is "Cheap and easy" to fit. No way.
All Tier 3 BS are far more expensive and AT LEAST just as skill intensive to fly correctly.

Amarr are FAR from worthless. The abaddon and geddon can be very effective with PROPER SKILLS, and SMART PLAY.

This game has so many whiners. Reminds me of the people that ruined Star Wars Galaxies.

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Yes. But those 50-on-50 Jedi battles were something... Something stupid, but something none the less.

Posted - 2007.06.19 17:41:00 - [113]

 

Originally by: murder one

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I'm not wanting a Blasterthron to 'win every time'. I want it to work in it's intended envelope: ultra short range combat. Right now it can't do that, much less anything else.

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Problem is Murder One, you got it backwards. The Megathron has routinely been forced into blaster boat, but it's really a rail boat, hence the 73KM base targeting range and tracking bonuses to keep those rails on target. The HYPERION is the blaster-boat of the Gallente Navy, hence the 60KM base targeting range, the vastly superior repairing ability AND the freaking description:

Quote:

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Recognizing the necessity for a blaster platform to round out their high-end arsenal, the Federation Navy brought in top-level talent to work on the Hyperion. The result: one of the most lethal and versatile gunboats ever to take to the dark skies.

Special Ability: 5% large hybrid weapon damage per level
7.5% bonus to armor repair amount of armor repair systems

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So, yeah, players do things because they're looking for an advantage. But just because they develop a common thread in the fantasy of what "something is" in their lore, doesn't mean they're necessarily right.

And you're complaining about a ship doesn't do what you want it to do when that's not really it's mission. Even though you, and a great number of people, have developed some "lore" about the Megathron = Blasterthron. Now you have the ship you want, it's called the "Hyperion."

Get one. They're fun. Although, I must admit, they're energy sucking pigs.

Posted - 2007.06.19 17:49:00 - [115]

 

Originally by: Donathan Slade

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whine whine whine, ***** ***** *****... Is that people always do? If something doesn't go your way you ***** and complain that CCP is nerfing nerfing... OMG THEY NERFING AGAIN!!!

I don't hear you complaining about the Drake, because it doesn't affect you, but if it did you would probably still be *****ing!!!

So you can't have a blasterthron!!! Get a blaster hyper which is the reason tehy were made, blasters, tank bonus.. get real and use the apropriate ship for the appropriate job. This is what CCP is balancing for. No, I don't like the EANM nef myself, especailly since nobdoy was complaining. But if you relate it to shields, they don't have a eanm equivalent for shield tanking sooo, bonus to armor tankers once again?

Quit playing if you don't like it or fly something else. Or, waste your money and watch your "elite of the elite" in SP get poped by the little tackle sniper gang that you can't shoot with their 40k scrams.

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MO has complained about the Drake in a previous thread somewhere. Hyperion is a weird ass abortion of a Blastership. Rep bonus :| So it can tank like a ***** while doing mediocre damage. Yay, its another ship that needs to be nossed to beat it.

Also, News flash, Shield tanking and armour tanking are not meant to be the same.

Your last sentence is just pointless. wtf has a sniper gang got to do with anything, we're talking about DPS boats being virtually worthless when it comes to solo work.

Posted - 2007.06.19 17:53:00 - [117]

 

Originally by: Dawson

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Edited by: Dawson on 19/06/2007 17:29:26
Edited by: Dawson on 19/06/2007 17:26:42

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

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Originally by: Dawson

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Originally by: Dawson

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Originally by: Siigari Kitawa

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Originally by: James Duar

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Originally by: Dawson

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what do you expect its a tier 1 BS. nuff said.

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It's a tier 2 BS.

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lmao owned.

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is it really? I thought Armageddon was tier 1, Apocalypse tier 2, Abaddon tier 3.

intact i'm sure of it, not that I can check in game at the moment.

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Quote:

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Armageddon
>Primary Skill required
>Amarr Battleship I

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defo tier 1

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What planet are you from?

We're talking about the Megathron.

Dominix t1
Megathron t2
Hyperion t3

Get blushing some more please.

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lmao that explains it, god knows what made me think it was a geddon thread been bugging me all day, i was trying to find info on the geddon trying too work out if they changed the tier lmao its not even the right race

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DO I HEAR QUOTE CHAIN!?

Posted - 2007.06.19 18:42:00 - [119]

 

Originally by: Horza Otho

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Originally by: Akita T

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Edited by: Akita T on 19/06/2007 06:39:44

Downgrade from Neutrons to Ions. About 6% DPS drop for 7% better tracking, much easier to fit, both PG and CPU-wise.
Drop the turret CPU implant you used to need and get a turret damage implant instead. Almost recovered lost DPS.
Of course, the 5 Ogre IIs still deal the same damage as before.

Switch from Void L (28K/28T, -25% range, -50% falloff, -50% tracking, +25% capacitor usage) to LP-shop
Antimatter L faction ammo (32.2K/23T, -50% range, no falloff penality, no tracking penality, no capacitor usage penality).
Almost the same damage (-1.4% DPS overall), easier on the cap, better quality hits (or mor often) which actually means an increase in DPS, and a whooping 20% capacitor savings !
And no, I don't expect that ammo to cost significantly more as T2 ammo.


THERE.

Easy to fit, doesn't even NEED T2 guns.
Cheap. Well, cheapER as what you were apparently used to anyway.
Almost same base DPS (3-4% at worst if you insist on using T2 guns).
Highly increased survivavility because it DOESN'T cap out as fast as you're used to.
More than DOUBLED tracking (yes, more than, I count 107% vs 50% as more than double).
Almost doubled effective fighting range (lower falloff on ions, but no 50% penality, slightly lower optimal too).

What the heck do you need more ?
It's a freaking Gallente BOOST to boot, and you're WHINING "NERF" ?!?!?

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Dude, u dont need cpu implants for neutrons... u need them for ions.

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Nub, you need it after REV2...