| Author |
Topic |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 01:15:00 - [ 31]
Nothing said here proves that the POS was online when attacked. Mails are sent out even when the tower is online. Did you actually fly there and see the shield being up with no modules left? |
Phoenix Lord
The Scope
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:04:00 - [ 32]
Edited by: Phoenix Lord on 09/06/2007 02:03:03
How would the shield have been damaged if the POS was offline?
EDIT: or does the POS still have shield while offline, just not the bubble? |
Trollin |
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:15:00 - [ 33]
Edited by: Trollin on 09/06/2007 02:17:07
POS have "shield" even when offline, I have been on an op to remove offline pos, and they have a shield value that must be reduced to 0 to begin on armor, even with no bubble up.
1. you run out of fuel
1.5 bubble drops, allowing labs to be targeted
2. attackers begin on the tower, which still has a "shield" value and realize it will take DAYS to kill
3. they target and pop the labs easy
4. they work more on the tower, but decide its not worth the ammo. |
Vactet
Capital Enrichment Services
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:17:00 - [ 34]
The shield was taking damage...hence the pos was online.
Its when the pos goes offline that the sheilds come down and let people shoot the stuff inside.
So...this is just kinda strange.
ANd if the GM's say its not an exploit...then there is no reason they cannot go into details. If it is an exploit then they couldnt go into detail for obvious reason.
Its very fishy that the GM knew what was done to enable your labs to be destroyed...yet didnt share the info.
Escalate it and if you continue to get BS about "Not an exploit but i cant tell you" then theres a serious issue with conflict of interest. Id go and ask other communities (Scrapheap) where the rules of EVE dont apply. Someone might be able to tell you there what was done or atleast be able to say the GM was full of poo.
Personally..i think the GM you spoke to is blowing smoke up your rear.
He either knows and for some reason (NOT gonna say it) wont tell you.
Or he is inept.
Or ..something else?
Depending on how this all goes for ya, id consider this to be one of the issues for the oversight folks to look into, seems fishy to me.
|
Trollin |
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:23:00 - [ 35]
I already said, shield is an independent number/entity than the actual bubble
if you have a tower and free moon handy, you can see for yourself, anchor it, and it will have what appear to be a full shield, even tho u have not onlined it.
fire at it for a few minutes, and you will maybe see the shield go down a little if you have enough DPS. |
Isis Dea
Minmatar
Modal Cortex
IDENTITY UNKN0WN |
Posted - 2007.06.09 14:24:00 - [ 36]
Keep in mind the "force field" is not the "Shield" of the tower.  |
MellaRinn
Gallente
Veto.
Veto Corp |
Posted - 2007.06.09 14:34:00 - [ 37]
IMHO you jsut ran out of fuel to run the tower (whether you had stront or not is irrelevant).
The attackers jsut popped the labs and tried the tower as well, but CBA'ed to finish the tower off. Like a few above said, Shield is not Force Field of a POS. |
Gladia Horusthu
Gallente
Ordo Pondera
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 14:38:00 - [ 38]
It seems to me that the GM's wouldn't necessarily divulge how something happens if it is legitimate. Lack of documentation is intentional, as those who discover new tricks are supposed to be rewarded with a monopoly on those tricks till others wise up. Been that way since day one. So I don't necessarily expect that the OP will get a satisfactory response detailing how it happened. The game was designed with anti-transparency in mind :P |
stoats
Viziam
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 15:23:00 - [ 39]
Probably ran out of fuel, we've popped labs on towers like this in the past. The tower has shield (and a lot of it) when it's offline. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 15:42:00 - [ 40]
I can not find quickly the post(s) in question, I'll leave that to the forum search squad.
I can tell you however with 100% certainty that somebody in the CCP team (some GM or some dev, again, can't recall) explicitly stated that...
OFFLINED/UNANCHORED STRUCTURES INSIDE POS SHIELDS (AS WELL AS UNPILOTED SHIPS INSIDE POS SHIELDS) CAN BE TARGETTED AND DESTROYED (or in case of ships, also boarded).
"Not an exploit, just another undocumented feature". |
Ron White |
Posted - 2007.06.09 15:47:00 - [ 41]
 Originally by: The Ender
Originally by: PartyVaN
just wondering - why did you not fit any guns? Or did you?
3 labs on a small POS don't leave much CPU. I knew the risks, and was prepared to take them. I can afford the loss after all, but am not prepared to take a loss that is unexplainable and appear to be an exploit
Obviously the GMs know how it was achieved and they deem it to be within the game mechanics and not an exploit.
Was it attacked by a member of Bob? They seem to not be able to do exploits.... well not till later when its ruled a exploit... and then punishment in EVE isnt backwards compatible |
Esau Cairn
Bombshell Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 16:11:00 - [ 42]
Originally by: Ron White
Was it attacked by a member of Bob? They seem to not be able to do exploits.... well not till later when its ruled a exploit... and then punishment in EVE isnt backwards compatible
Ah. I wondered how long it was gonna be before the tinfoil hat brigade showed up. You guys never quit, do you? Trying to kill BoB with innuendo because you can't figure out how to do it with pew-pew? Sad. |
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 16:18:00 - [ 43]
Interesting... And yeh, we really need to drop the whole BoB charade. |
Ron White |
Posted - 2007.06.09 16:43:00 - [ 44]
Yes we need to drop it when it stops being true....
POS Bowling wasnt a exploit till after bob used it....
Geeeee |
Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc. |
Posted - 2007.06.09 17:16:00 - [ 45]
Originally by: Ron White
Yes we need to drop it when it stops being true....
POS Bowling wasnt a exploit till after bob used it....
Geeeee
QFT |
Neveren
Caldari
Hakata Group
Blade. |
Posted - 2007.06.09 17:43:00 - [ 46]
you forgot to fuel your tower? only way they can attack somthing inside the shield is if the Shield is not up.
So yes, they were eating the shields on the tower thus the mails..
but that shield does not mean the tower was online |
Zalathar
Minmatar
Trannyz
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 17:56:00 - [ 47]
Originally by: Akita T
I can not find quickly the post(s) in question, I'll leave that to the forum search squad.
I can tell you however with 100% certainty that somebody in the CCP team (some GM or some dev, again, can't recall) explicitly stated that...
OFFLINED/UNANCHORED STRUCTURES INSIDE POS SHIELDS (AS WELL AS UNPILOTED SHIPS INSIDE POS SHIELDS) CAN BE TARGETTED AND DESTROYED (or in case of ships, also boarded).
"Not an exploit, just another undocumented feature".
ok, this is interesting... were the structures packaged? |
Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving |
Posted - 2007.06.09 17:59:00 - [ 48]
Edited by: Korizan on 09/06/2007 18:06:01
Edited by: Korizan on 09/06/2007 18:01:09
If you are inside the Force Field you can target anything.
So if you set up your POS at a the 0 warp in point at any direction then someone could warp in and target any mod and attack before they get removed.
So anyone with a bookmark to the center of your POS could also sell that to someone for a little cash and well you can see where it goes from there.
Not sure if that is an exploit or not as you are not in real space while warping so the force field would have no effect.
And if they get wedged in by anchored items then they could sit there all day.
But maybe that is how it was done
|
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations. |
Posted - 2007.06.09 18:09:00 - [ 49]
Originally by: Korizan
So anyone with a bookmark to the center of your POS could also sell that to someone for a little cash and well you can see where it goes from there.
Or you could just setup a warp-in point using a gang mate to drop you in the middle. |
Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving |
Posted - 2007.06.09 18:15:00 - [ 50]
Yup that would work with no problems.
And a much simpler solution.
If a POS doesn't have any guns you could do it all day without issues.
Or even one or 2 ineffective ones that could be tanked.
|
MorbidPenguin
Hard Corp |
Posted - 2007.06.09 18:31:00 - [ 51]
That wouldn't work because you can't target anything while you're inside the force field of the POS. |
Druadan
Syrus Speculations
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 19:11:00 - [ 52]
Edited by: Druadan on 09/06/2007 19:10:42 Originally by: Korizan
If you are inside the Force Field you can target anything.
So if you set up your POS at a the 0 warp in point at any direction then someone could warp in and target any mod and attack before they get removed.
So anyone with a bookmark to the center of your POS could also sell that to someone for a little cash and well you can see where it goes from there.
Not sure if that is an exploit or not as you are not in real space while warping so the force field would have no effect.
And if they get wedged in by anchored items then they could sit there all day.
But maybe that is how it was done
Incorrect. Originally by: MorbidPenguin
That wouldn't work because you can't target anything while you're inside the force field of the POS.
Correct. |
Mr HardLuck |
Posted - 2007.06.09 21:06:00 - [ 53]
It seems to me that once you offlined your labs they fell under the "offlined mods are able to be targeted" mechanic and therefore became lockable/killable? even before the shields came down...
If this is indeed the case and the POS Bubble was still up/operational then I'm confused as to why CCP allows the POS Shield, not the Tower shields, to be circumvented like this...
Anyways like I said seems to me thats what happened...not sure what recourse you can take best of luck to you.
LT |
The Ender |
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:28:00 - [ 54]
I have just read all the interest gathered here. I am yet to log on to see if the Senior GM has replied but at this point I will state that the POS forcefield was up, the tower had been refueled the night before for a full 8 days worth.
The tower went into reinforced with 12 hours worth of Stront in it and at this point the labs were destroyed. I also double checked to see if the password was still in effect and indeed it was.
The labs were also anchored and online as they were in use at the time.
WIll post results... |
The Ender |
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:30:00 - [ 55]
Senior GMs must be getting an awful lot of escalations as it's now over 24 hours without reply from them :( |
Acama Asante
Amarr
Invicta. |
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:40:00 - [ 56]
Originally by: The Ender
Senior GMs must be getting an awful lot of escalations as it's now over 24 hours without reply from them :(
Quick question - was all the pos fuel for the 8 days in one stack? I've heard of POSes going through one stack and then the shield going down, without "realising" there is more there. This may have been fixed some time ago though. |
The Ender |
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:43:00 - [ 57]
Originally by: Acama Asante
Originally by: The Ender
Senior GMs must be getting an awful lot of escalations as it's now over 24 hours without reply from them :(
Quick question - was all the pos fuel for the 8 days in one stack? I've heard of POSes going through one stack and then the shield going down, without "realising" there is more there. This may have been fixed some time ago though.
To the best of my knowledge it was in a single stack. It didn't run out of fuel as the forcefield was still up and the tower went into reinforced. At this point when the attackers had retired I went to the tower to see if I could see anything awry, and the tower was indeed online at this time. |
Minmatar baby
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:46:00 - [ 58]
seems to be a bug/exploit to me..
|
Veest
FinFleet
IT Alliance |
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:28:00 - [ 59]
Originally by: Acama Asante
Originally by: The Ender
Senior GMs must be getting an awful lot of escalations as it's now over 24 hours without reply from them :(
Quick question - was all the pos fuel for the 8 days in one stack? I've heard of POSes going through one stack and then the shield going down, without "realising" there is more there. This may have been fixed some time ago though.
I belive that the POS storage 'auto stacks' stuff these days, so that theory wouldn't come into it. |
Bippa |
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:43:00 - [ 60]
Originally by: Ron White
Yes we need to drop it when it stops being true....
POS Bowling wasnt a exploit till after bob used it....
Actually, your facts are wrong. It wasn't an exploit as long as BoB were the only ones doing it or at least not having it done to them. When AAA bumped a BoB carrier out of a pos and killed it, it was declared an exploit within two weeks. |
All Channels
EVE General Discussion
