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Nanobotter Mk2
Posted - 2007.06.02 22:39:00 - [1]
 

That is right I think people who transport deserve some defense and suicide gankers deserve some risk. CCP needs to add a mod that prevents cargo from being scanned, so transporter have some defense, and then gankers have some risk.

IT is silly that people can scan your ship ( which is actually a hostile action in the first place ) and you have NO way to stop them. This way gankers could still gank but it would finally be risky provided they remove insurance from gankers in empire.

That way you can still suicide gank but hey you are taking a real risk, and the people who traonsport can have some protection being you are ganking blindly...hell I could travel with 2 friends using haulers as empty decoys etc....

Time to step up and add some balance to suicide ganking CCP.

Nyabi
Caldari
Ionic Defender
Posted - 2007.06.02 22:42:00 - [2]
 

Cargo Rigs perhaps? Meaning something to screw up the chance of scanning to happen. Whatever skill used for cargo scanning changed to increase the chance of penetrating said rig.


Just offering an idea because I see this in your view as well.

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2007.06.02 22:44:00 - [3]
 

Cargo shielding rigs are a GREAT idea to me, CCP should look into that.

The Pointless
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.06.02 22:44:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: The Pointless on 02/06/2007 22:43:59
Cargo scanning isn't a hostile action. Sure, it may be an invasion of privacy, but being nosey isn't the same as opening fire or punching someone in the schnozz. ugh

Regardless, your idea sounds good.

Max Godsnottlingson
Amarr
Max G Storage and Logistics
Posted - 2007.06.02 22:46:00 - [5]
 

There already is a method. Giant cans, well for Industrials and smaller for other ships, and you get the bonus of extra cargo space too

The Pointless
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.06.02 22:47:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Max Godsnottlingson
There already is a method. Giant cans, well for Industrials and smaller for other ships, and you get the bonus of extra cargo space too


Oh yeah, forgot about them. Neutral

Anopheli
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
Posted - 2007.06.02 22:47:00 - [7]
 

I haven't tested this myself, but a corp member claims you can issue yourself a courier mission, and when scanned all that shows up is the courier package.

Pwn4ge P4nts
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.06.02 22:48:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Anopheli
I haven't tested this myself, but a corp member claims you can issue yourself a courier mission, and when scanned all that shows up is the courier package.


This is correct.

Nox Solaris
Posted - 2007.06.02 23:16:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Pwn4ge P4nts
Originally by: Anopheli
I haven't tested this myself, but a corp member claims you can issue yourself a courier mission, and when scanned all that shows up is the courier package.


This is correct.


Also, recovery of this courier item if the ship is destroyed requires a ship capable of holding the entire package whole, as individual parts won't be accessable.
Conversely, if the courier package goes pop with the ship you loose everything completely.

And, so far as I've ever seen, the contents of cans show up on a cargo scan.

A scan-scrambling rig would be useful, however, to be sure. Randomly pulls object tags from the local regional market, reliability dependant on the scanner's skill & the rig increasing the disruption probability dependant on the pilot's whatever-rigging skill.

Major Stormer
Caldari
MEK Enterprises
Posted - 2007.06.02 23:22:00 - [10]
 

Ok, if you can pan the camera down on certain portraits but have it be a GCC action to make it..you know...balanced... Wink

Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
Posted - 2007.06.03 01:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
CCP needs to add a mod that prevents cargo from being scanned, so transporter have some defense, and then gankers have some risk.
Frieghters can't fit any mods/rigs at all, so it would do nothing to affect this recent change in the balance. As for other ships, I don't see as much imbalance. There are lots of more useful mods to fit that will protect your ship.

Even if you made scanning a hostile act, it only means that the gankers need to field an extra couple of people. You could still easily break even fitting a frigate with a single scanner, and popping it on every frieghter that goes by.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.06.03 01:29:00 - [12]
 

for 2.2% of your cargos value I will sell you a cargo protection plan, in the event of an unavoidable loss we will reimburse you and take it out of the pilots hide...

of course you have to file a claim and go through our rigorous evaluation and investigation

Nick Curso
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.03 01:49:00 - [13]
 

i may not be a genius but isnt committing suicide a risk?

Nanobotter Mk2
Posted - 2007.06.03 07:22:00 - [14]
 

Quote:
i may not be a genius but isnt committing suicide a risk?



NOt when your using a t1 fitted and insured ship, and the target has a few million ISk worth of good on board....the risk is all but ignorable, unless you call a couple million ISK risk.......so ya your not a genius good call Very Happy

Nanobotter Mk2
Posted - 2007.06.03 07:25:00 - [15]
 

Quote:
Cargo scanning isn't a hostile action. Sure, it may be an invasion of privacy, but being nosey isn't the same as opening fire or punching someone in the schnozz.



Mush your face up against the window of my house or car peering inside for something of value to steal...I am pretty sure 99% of people will consider it a hostile action, I know my wife will beat you silly if you start snooping through her purse...Sorry any way you cut it scanning really should be considered a hostile action.

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.06.03 07:34:00 - [16]
 

As someone who has done more than his share of hauling:

Enh. I'm up in the air about this one. Are you talking hostile act as in "Here comes CONCORD, grab the lube"? If so, that's a little... extreme. Perhaps just flag them for kill rights? To draw a real life parallel, the cops won't arrest you for peeking in shop windows at night, but if you catch someone peeking in your car, you'd be more than justified in pounding his face in.

And cargo scrambler rigs seem interesting, but won't affect the real high-risk target: freighters.

annoing
Amarr
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2007.06.03 08:35:00 - [17]
 

secure cans ftw?

Correct me if im wrong (and I usually am) -- It doesnt matter if they CAN see inside a container when scanning a ship because if its secure they cant get at it (password) and they cant take it from the wreckage (message along the lines of "thats not yours"). However, I wasnt aware that they could see into a secure can anyway, ive tried it on a corpie and it didnt work for me.

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.06.03 08:36:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: annoing
secure cans ftw?

Correct me if im wrong (and I usually am) -- It doesnt matter if they CAN see inside a container when scanning a ship because if its secure they cant get at it (password) and they cant take it from the wreckage (message along the lines of "thats not yours"). However, I wasnt aware that they could see into a secure can anyway, ive tried it on a corpie and it didnt work for me.


Pretty sure they can pick up the can in entirem, take it to a nearby station, and repack, dumping all the goods out nicely. All without a password.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Lag Hon
Minmatar
Lag Hon Security
Posted - 2007.06.03 08:53:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Pwn4ge P4nts
Originally by: Anopheli
I haven't tested this myself, but a corp member claims you can issue yourself a courier mission, and when scanned all that shows up is the courier package.


This is correct.


If this is true then the theory im looking at is, if you make a courier package so large that only a freighter can fit it, then only a freighter will be able to collect the loot.
As freighters cannot loot from space it would make you a target not worth shooting unless they are just out to grief. So the question remains, how many of these ganksquads will pop a freighter just for the thrill of watching lots of ships explode.

Moraguth
Amarr
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.06.03 08:56:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: annoing
secure cans ftw?

Correct me if im wrong (and I usually am) -- It doesnt matter if they CAN see inside a container when scanning a ship because if its secure they cant get at it (password) and they cant take it from the wreckage (message along the lines of "thats not yours"). However, I wasnt aware that they could see into a secure can anyway, ive tried it on a corpie and it didnt work for me.


Pretty sure they can pick up the can in entirem, take it to a nearby station, and repack, dumping all the goods out nicely. All without a password.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


You are correct

Moraguth
Amarr
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.06.03 08:56:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Lag Hon
Originally by: Pwn4ge P4nts
Originally by: Anopheli
I haven't tested this myself, but a corp member claims you can issue yourself a courier mission, and when scanned all that shows up is the courier package.


This is correct.


If this is true then the theory im looking at is, if you make a courier package so large that only a freighter can fit it, then only a freighter will be able to collect the loot.
As freighters cannot loot from space it would make you a target not worth shooting unless they are just out to grief. So the question remains, how many of these ganksquads will pop a freighter just for the thrill of watching lots of ships explode.


You are incorrect. Freighters can now loot the wrecks of other freighters from space. They can also do stuff with POSs.

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.06.03 08:57:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Amarria Black on 03/06/2007 08:56:15
Originally by: Lag Hon
Originally by: Pwn4ge P4nts
Originally by: Anopheli
I haven't tested this myself, but a corp member claims you can issue yourself a courier mission, and when scanned all that shows up is the courier package.


This is correct.


If this is true then the theory im looking at is, if you make a courier package so large that only a freighter can fit it, then only a freighter will be able to collect the loot.
As freighters cannot loot from space it would make you a target not worth shooting unless they are just out to grief. So the question remains, how many of these ganksquads will pop a freighter just for the thrill of watching lots of ships explode.


Enh... there will always be SOMEONE dedicated enough to pour money down the drain just to watch a freighter go boom. It can be inferred that most are in it for the money, though.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:17:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Amarria Black

Enh... there will always be SOMEONE dedicated enough to pour money down the drain just to watch a freighter go boom. It can be inferred that most are in it for the money, though.


I think you are just trying to sensationalize the situation. I doubt very much that anyone would kill a frieghter just to watch it blow up. Consider even the outbreak frieghter kill was motivated by revenge. Not "teehee pretty explosions".

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are many alliances that use freighter alts in NPC corps as a logistic backbone. Crap imo. NPC corps shouldn't be allowed to fly anything that trial accounts can't. But another topic, I suppose. The point being, without the video, the outbreak freighter kill would have looked like just a mindless gank (I don't believe freither looting was in yet). But there are many reasons behind the scenes people don't consider that could motivate killing a freighter. Even an innocent looking one in a NPC corp.


As to the OP's suggestion. Sure, why not. I think it should be a low slot module that scrambles scan results by a percentage. Gives haulers a tradeoff choice between extenders or cargo stealth.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:27:00 - [24]
 

I'd be all for scanning being a flaggable action. The big problem with suicide ganking isn't that it exists, but that the victim can't do much about it- even having an escort.

If scanning a ship raise a combat flag, then any ship with an escort could react with some pew. Which is in line with the two core principles of EVE- that PvP should be counterable with PvP, an that team work shoul pay.


Another decent idea would be a scan-blocker module. If a hauler was paranoid (sensible) enough to want to give up a module slot to a scan blocker, they should be allowed. The fact that 99% of haulers refuse to fit anything other than hauling modules as it is (DARE even suggest they try to tank) should mean that most still won't use it, but atleast the option will be there.

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:28:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: Amarria Black

Enh... there will always be SOMEONE dedicated enough to pour money down the drain just to watch a freighter go boom. It can be inferred that most are in it for the money, though.


I think you are just trying to sensationalize the situation. I doubt very much that anyone would kill a frieghter just to watch it blow up. Consider even the outbreak frieghter kill was motivated by revenge. Not "teehee pretty explosions".

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are many alliances that use freighter alts in NPC corps as a logistic backbone. Crap imo. NPC corps shouldn't be allowed to fly anything that trial accounts can't. But another topic, I suppose. The point being, without the video, the outbreak freighter kill would have looked like just a mindless gank (I don't believe freither looting was in yet). But there are many reasons behind the scenes people don't consider that could motivate killing a freighter. Even an innocent looking one in a NPC corp.


Umm... if I had a good dozen friends with trained alts and a few hundred mil to blow on throwaway BSs, I'd do it just for the pretty kabang. Doubly so if it was making me money. One of my goals in this game is to watch, in-person, at least one of everything spectacularly explode.

But we're straying off topic here...

Kieranda
Weyland-Yutani Future Technologies Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:32:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Quote:
Cargo scanning isn't a hostile action. Sure, it may be an invasion of privacy, but being nosey isn't the same as opening fire or punching someone in the schnozz.



Mush your face up against the window of my house or car peering inside for something of value to steal...I am pretty sure 99% of people will consider it a hostile action, I know my wife will beat you silly if you start snooping through her purse...Sorry any way you cut it scanning really should be considered a hostile action.


I've seen a lot of SciFi shows and movies that make me an expert on the scanner issue and I can tell you...in all of them, scanning the other ship was a standard procedure that 99% of time wasn't considered as hostile action

Shinris
Gallente
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:38:00 - [27]
 

scanning should just be a hostile act.
insurance should not be payid if you get killed by concord.

issue and problem solved

i take
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:40:00 - [28]
 

cargo scanning is as much a hostile act as any EW used.
so make it so. and STOP protecting "your" kind of peoples play style, at least be a bit fair.. sigh damn .....

Originally by: Kieranda
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Quote:
Cargo scanning isn't a hostile action. Sure, it may be an invasion of privacy, but being nosey isn't the same as opening fire or punching someone in the schnozz.



Mush your face up against the window of my house or car peering inside for something of value to steal...I am pretty sure 99% of people will consider it a hostile action, I know my wife will beat you silly if you start snooping through her purse...Sorry any way you cut it scanning really should be considered a hostile action.


I've seen a lot of SciFi shows and movies that make me an expert on the scanner issue and I can tell you...in all of them, scanning the other ship was a standard procedure that 99% of time wasn't considered as hostile action


Detrol
Caldari
Posted - 2007.06.03 11:55:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: annoing
... However, I wasnt aware that they could see into a secure can anyway, ive tried it on a corpie and it didnt work for me.


You are correct, you cannot see inside a container with a cargo scanner.

For some reason, people don't read important info like that. They want to believe the worst: "OMG they can scan me... OMG some people say containers don't hide it... OMG CCP need to do something"... sigh


A cargo scanner cannot scan inside a container anymore. It was possible at some time but not anymore. TRY IT OUT!!! really... TRY IT OUT!!! Not even the container shows up, it just seems to be an empty ship. And if you want to avoid suspision, just put some cheap mods in there which will show up.

Lucai
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.06.03 12:11:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Lucai on 03/06/2007 12:20:19

Originally by: Detrol
Originally by: annoing
... However, I wasnt aware that they could see into a secure can anyway, ive tried it on a corpie and it didnt work for me.


You are correct, you cannot see inside a container with a cargo scanner.

For some reason, people don't read important info like that. They want to believe the worst: "OMG they can scan me... OMG some people say containers don't hide it... OMG CCP need to do something"... sigh


A cargo scanner cannot scan inside a container anymore. It was possible at some time but not anymore. TRY IT OUT!!! really... TRY IT OUT!!! Not even the container shows up, it just seems to be an empty ship. And if you want to avoid suspision, just put some cheap mods in there which will show up.


I can only second that.

Little known fact is that, probably when ccp changed that objects in containers are not loaded in space as part of the "need for speed" initiative, scanners stopped being able to look into containers, or even see that there is a container onboard.

Maybe its meant to be like that nowadays, maybe its the price for the "need for speed" change, could be hard to code it otherwise, no idea, nobody knows but the devs, but its a fact.

"Scanners can scan inside containers" has become a mantra nonetheless, being repeated in every such thread, maybe out of ignorance of actual current mechanics, maybe to discourage the use of containers.

ATM there is NO way to see that a ship with i.e. a million mega in containers has any cargo on board at all.

A little disclaimer, though:
If they would change it back, its a server-side patch. You wont notice or see the patch, there will be no patch-notes, consider yourself warned YARRRR!!


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