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Jacques Archambault


ISD YARR
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:40:00 - [1]
 

New CCP Updates here here and here -Eldo

This is the discussion thread for the following news item regarding the recent allegations of developer misconduct:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1465&tid=1
There is a second news item by CCP Arkanon into the acivities of CCP Sharkbait http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1466&tid=1 -Eldo

posted by Arkanon from the CCP Internal Affairs Department.

Your feedback and comments are welcomed. Whilst many of you feel strongly about this issue, we kindly request that you please keep your replies civil, constructive and on-topic. Flames and attempts at trolling will be removed.

Please also do not start additional threads on this topic as they will be locked and referred to this one.

Responses by Arkanon can be found here and here. - Eshtir

Jacques Archambault

Myk Taison
Unknown Force
SOLAR WING
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:41:00 - [2]
 

I don't like it one bit!

Epyik
Caldari
DarkStar 1
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:43:00 - [3]
 

You know this kind of stuff wouldn't happen if we could get some responses once and awhile ...

nickky01
Viziam
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:43:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: nickky01 on 27/05/2007 02:40:43
not from me:


Originally by: Malloc Memrel
This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this.

As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me.

And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that.

"But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind.

The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault.

Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at.

The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase.


from here

Drused
The Scope
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:44:00 - [5]
 

Well, hopefully the member of Darkstar 1 that made the petition will confirm that there is indeed a real petition. That would head off this whole forum drama bomb before it gets started in earnest.

Shouldn't be too hard.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:44:00 - [6]
 

depending on the outcome this might be the end of eve for me at least

Soren
PAK
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:45:00 - [7]
 

makes for a good friday night?

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:46:00 - [8]
 

Basic failures in this instance by CCP...

- Petition filed about the issue was deleted with no feedback.
- Any other attempts to make contact failed.
- Forum post regarding the issue was deleted within 30 seconds of being posted with no response, feedback or anything else.


The news item failed to address or acknowledge some of the other issues that were raised in the forum posts as well. Oh and this is not some official post on behalf of anyone, it's just my own thought's about the whole debacle.

Gutsani
Chaos Reborn
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:47:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Gutsani on 25/05/2007 23:50:26
Where are the findings done by internal affairs in the past? ..

My point exactly.. Surprised

Also, let me post some log.

[ 2007.05.25 23:21:02 ] GM Zhainius > We will always have a log of the petition in our system still
[ 2007.05.25 23:21:16 ] Gutsani > but who maintains the logs ..
[ 2007.05.25 23:21:44 ] Gutsani > isnt that, the database admin? cause, thats the guy thats getting blamed for being a bob-alt ..

Seriously, its really fancy and stuff having a IA-department, but as long as i dont know who does what there and actually see some results, you can keep your "empty box".

Imager
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: ArmyOfMe
depending on the outcome this might be the end of eve for me at least


The fact that I don't trust the OP pretty much solidifies my reason for quiting. I don't trust the creators of this game to play fair. They also didn't address the rigging of in game contests. Surprise.

Hebachica
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:47:00 - [11]
 

"Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened what simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged."

LOOOL!!!!! Yea right.

Blacklight
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:48:00 - [12]
 

To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it.


Incantare
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:49:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Incantare on 25/05/2007 23:48:20
I liked the "sensationalist allegations" bit Rolling Eyes, but out of three issues the 'news item' only mentioned one.

Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:49:00 - [14]
 

Uh, there were two separate accusations, IA responded to one of them. Really, the joining the corp one pales in comparison to the other one. Can you please investigate both of the complaints?

Still Hart
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:49:00 - [15]
 

What about all the other major allegations?

BoB = CCP makes me sad. :(

matty01
matty01 hyperFun ratting corp
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:49:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: matty01 on 26/05/2007 16:24:05
Originally by: nickky01
Edited by: nickky01 on 26/05/2007 15:12:39
Originally by: Malloc Memrel
This is the first and probably only post on eve-o I'll ever make, as I've never been much of a "Game X Forums" kind of guy, but I had to say this.

As an ex-Blizzard employee, I am flabbergasted at the extent to which developer presence contaminates the player pool. With WoW there wasn't a line between our player accounts and our personal accounts- there was a wall, a moat, a spike-filled trench, and electrified barbed wire. You so much as tried to enter a developer command into the console, you'd be kicked from the server, your account would be flagged, and unless you had a really damn good rason for attempting to bring developer capabilities into the game your ass was fired. You told no one anything about the game behind the curtain, you never told anyone in-game that you even worked for the company, or your ass was fired. The impetus for crossing that line in eve is entirely beyond me.

And don't start for a second with "We need to see how things work." Rubbish. You've got one of the most robust test servers known to MMOs, you've got ridiculously fluid interaction from your player base (At least from the bottom-up) and if nothing else you could have internal servers to try things on. Having anyone with even the possibility of developer powers in the public server is nothing short of madness. Having powers above and beyond normal players, or having access to information beyond the average player, is akin to putting water in chocolate- a single drop can cause a whole batch to sieze and it's ruined just like that.

"But what about GMs?" you ask. Fair enough, they need certain powers to set things right. But they should only ever exist in the game when no other option presents itself. They should be invisible, intangible, a last resort for a coding malfunction or dispute that requires GM omniscience to solve. They should not be people but a service, identifiable only to the point that they can be held accountable for their actions. If you tried to log in as a GM account anywhere but at Blizzard's GM center, hell, if you even hinted that you had a GM account, you'd be canned so fast your head would spin. That CCP would willingly and intentionally contaminate the public player base with what amounts to demi-gods with varying degrees of moral fortitude just boggles my mind.

The thing is, I know some CCPers here on the american side of things, people I've worked with in the past, and I just feel so sorry for them. I just want to say to them, "What the hell is going on over there? What kind of people are you working for?" but I know it isn't their fault.

Bottom line, CCP doesn't care. What exactly they don't care about, I'm not sure; it could be that they don't care about people being in a position to abuse powers beyond what normal paying customers can do, or it could be that they don't care about the effect establishing an Old Boy's Club with their closest pals has on the rest of the game, or it could be any number of things. But the inevitable conclusion is that there is some aspect of the past and current troubles that they are simply turning their noses up at.

The sad thing is, I left WoW for EvE because despite all the work I had put into it, EvE struck me as the superior product. Ironically, I was half wrong and half right. Eve has the potential to be a superior product, but this kind of customer relations seems to spit in the face of everyone who wants to play a game with a firm set of established rules applicable throughout the playerbase.


from here


this

Mr Xerox
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [17]
 

While Sharkbait posted in 2006 about something similar to this, he made it clear in that post he always emailed the corp when doing this to inform them of the action.

Also, no comment on the other part of the allegations?

Jesters Knight
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Hebachica
"Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened what simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged."

LOOOL!!!!! Yea right.


While this did happen in my corporation as well (and <3 to sharkbait for fixing it) i think that it would have been better for that to have been said in the first place.

however that dosent answer for ALOT of the other stuff that was said as well

Myk Taison
Unknown Force
SOLAR WING
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it.




This is serious business too, can we have a dev in here to address these issues please, thanks in advance.

TrevorReznik
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [20]
 

I am mostly concerned with the complaint about roleplaying. Why was this not addressed?

Jake Stevens
Independent Traders
Ignition.
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it.




qft.

HatfulOfHollow
Synetix Engineering
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:50:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: HatfulOfHollow on 25/05/2007 23:53:45
Let's see...
A CCP employee joined DS1 and gives himself Director roles without warning
The CEO of DS1 files a petition asking why this occured when he sees it in the audit logs
The petition is instantly deleted

I dunno. Sounds pretty fishy to me.
Faith in ISD to give us a straight answer? laffo

edit, taken from the in game bio of the DS1 CEO
Quote:
Statement on dev misconduct:

for the record, Darkstar1 has 3 pos in game only, both are and have always worked fine and have never been petitioned by anyone in the corp for not working, the statement given by CCP is incorrect and simply not true,

LUCASWV, - CEO of Darkstar1

Andree Preneur
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [23]
 

Why would we, again, want to trust CCP. They misused the trust given by its players a few times now. I find this statement very weak. Low time or not.

oniplE
MeMento.
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [24]
 

How can I, as paying customer, trust any member of CCP, including internal affairs, if you respond to these kind allegations with censorship?

Thats right, i can't. Once again you damaged your reputation, and again you have only yourselfs to blame.

Mr Xerox
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it.




Considering the actions of that same player are the ones that brought the original scandal to light, I would think nothing?

Ifni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [26]
 

I feel sorry for those at CCP and ISD that have to put up with this b*ll****.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it.



Might that be cause they feel the right to do so after such things comes out in the open Rolling Eyes

Imager
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:51:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
To be honest I'm more interested how CCP intend to deal with a particular element of the player base who think that just because their personal drama llama is on the loose it's then ok to spam these forums to the degree that they have to be taken down to deal with it.




Oddly enough this bloc of players haven't had a dev cheat for them in the past. Say what you will, but all we're looking for is equal footing and instead we keep playing against a stacked deck. This is the only proven way to get a response from CCP and if it keeps working I'm sure the folks that continue to play in this rigged sandbox will continue to use it. It's not like a complex that respawns every hour or a few t2 bpos stopped us before.

Vasant
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:52:00 - [29]
 

Quote:
Our preliminary findings indicate that what happened what simply a developer doing his job ingame. He joined the corporation in order to access their POS, which was bugged to determine what it was building and relay the info to his alliance mates."


fixed

Sabahl
Minmatar
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.05.25 23:52:00 - [30]
 

I thought lagbombs only worked in-game? :D


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