| Author |
Topic |
qrac
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.05.05 23:52:00 - [ 91]
Eefrit, are you going to continue throwing around these accusations every other month? |
Tami Auryn
Natural Evolution
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 00:57:00 - [ 92]
 Originally by: qrac
Eefrit, are you going to continue throwing around these accusations every other month?
It's not a acusation, it's a FACT. And btw for Baun and who ever wants them, WTS 2b worth of BMBE shares at ipo price. |
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 01:18:00 - [ 93]
Originally by: Baun
The premise of this thread is a lie. Eefrit is a liar.
Do you have a single bit of proof to actually confirm Eefrit is lying? The way i see it, you are acting on hearsay (this person told me he told this other person that), and you have zero evidence to back this up. If Ray did indeed tell Eefrit about all of this, he will provide the logs to prove it. If Ray fails to provide the chatlogs, then your entire "Eefrit is a lier" vendetta means precisely zero in my eyes. Either way, you are continually trying to take away from the true purpose of this thread. Whether Eefrit knew or not, is not really important. What is important, is that shareholders have been kept in the dark all this time (except you of course), and now they find out that yet again, their share price will plummet because the CEO of their chosen investment doesn't bother reporting such large inconsistencies. So cut the Eefrit vendetta out, I am personally glad he made this post as it did bring this issue to light. Had he not posted this thread, we'd be oblivious to the fact that a huge sum of capital is now missing. If TS had just come out and reported it when it happened, people would have said 'ok cool, these things happen'. The fact that there was a giant coverup doesn't exactly bode well for BMBE. What would my shareholders think if I went to war and lost 20% of our corporate assets through losing a couple of towers, and didn't bother posting about it? They would be furious, and rightly so. |
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 01:26:00 - [ 94]
Also, now some people are saying this information was public knowledge all along. If this truly was the case, why did it take you 3 pages of saying "i have too much respect for xxx to give this information"??
Fact is, it wasn't public knowledge. It may have been discussed in passing, through a forum channel, or had a brief moment somewhere on the eve forums where it was insinuated, but as can be seen here, it definetly wasn't public knowledge and shareholders didn't know how significantly their shares had dropped in value. |
Verite Rendition
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control |
Posted - 2007.05.06 04:45:00 - [ 95]
Edited by: Verite Rendition on 06/05/2007 04:41:37
Umm, am I the only one that doesn't know that BMBE lost 30% of their capital to a bad loan?!
This is massive, gross, inexcusable incompetence; I can't fathom how the BMBE could be so stupid to make a loan on something half of EVE knew was getting nerfed before it was even on the test server. The fact that they then hide all of this(this is called lying, folks) is just icing on the cake and further proof that something is very wrong at BMBE, too wrong.
I demand to know how much money BMBE has, how many and what loans have defaulted, what currently outstanding loans are, and how the idiots that manage it can justify taking a salary instead of putting money back in to make up for their screwups. TornSoul and the directors of BMBE clearly can not be trusted to look out for anyone other than their closest friends, as evidenced by the fact that only the power-brokers knew about this.
If BMBE has any bit of decency, they'll immediately close up shop and start paying everyone 50mil for their shares, excluding themselves and their corrupt buddies, and when that runs out they can start paying out of their pockets. Otherwise this just proves that the investment market for the common man in EVE truely is dead. |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2007.05.06 05:02:00 - [ 96]
Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Baun
The premise of this thread is a lie. Eefrit is a liar.
Do you have a single bit of proof to actually confirm Eefrit is lying? The way i see it, you are acting on hearsay (this person told me he told this other person that), and you have zero evidence to back this up.
Ray told me that he told Eefrit that BMBE does not have full equity. This, of course, is acting on hearsay. Its a far cry from what Eefrit has done in this thread, however. Quote:
Either way, you are continually trying to take away from the true purpose of this thread. Whether Eefrit knew or not, is not really important. What is important, is that shareholders have been kept in the dark all this time (except you of course), and now they find out that yet again, their share price will plummet because the CEO of their chosen investment doesn't bother reporting such large inconsistencies.
You can assert that that is what is important, but you would be mistaken. This entire thread has been a disingenuous attempt to frame someone's actions in a false light. Tornsoul has never stolen anything. To say that this thread has been about the devaluation of BMBE shares is to completely miss the accusations of skimming and improprierty levied. You are claiming that saying Tornsoul conspired to steal money from his shareholders is the same thing as saying he made a stupid mistake one time about 1 year ago. You cannot seriously belive that they are the same. Quote:
So cut the Eefrit vendetta out, I am personally glad he made this post as it did bring this issue to light. Had he not posted this thread, we'd be oblivious to the fact that a huge sum of capital is now missing.
How does this change anything really? No one wanted to buy these shares already. The dividends will be the same as they have been for the last year. Quote:
What would my shareholders think if I went to war and lost 20% of our corporate assets through losing a couple of towers, and didn't bother posting about it? They would be furious, and rightly so.
I would say that you made a bad decision, not start a competing business and then call you a thief to submarine your operations just as I start to compete with you. Are you starting to understand why this is more about Eefrit being a rat then it is about a stupid decision TS made one year ago? |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2007.05.06 05:12:00 - [ 97]
Originally by: Shadarle
It seems to me that your credibility is on point too Baun.
The problem with that is that my credibility is only relevant to my accusation against Eefrit. I have absolutely nothing to do with the rest of this. You can fail to lend credence to anything I say and it is completely meaningless in the context of anything BMBE or Eefrit does. Quote:
You apparently knew all about this situation and you didn't bring it to anyones attention? You specifically tried to keep anyone from finding out.
This is flat wrong. If I had specifically tried to keep anyone from finding out then not only would I not be posting in this thread, but also I would have been taking actions behind the scenes and trying to talk to other people to quash this situation. Not only did I affirmatively not do those things, I turned down DS's request that I (more or less) do just that. Quote:
You refused to let anyone know. Obviously if you didn't think it was a big deal you would have made the knowledge public.
Whether I thought it was a big deal is COMPLETELY irrelevant. The important thing to note is that this is BMBE's problem to deal with and it is not my place to deal with it for them. Quote:
It doesn't matter who exposes fraud/lies... they are just as bad no matter who exposes them.
And it seems to me that all your claims throughout this thread have been lies. Eefrit did not know the details you claimed he did throughout. You actually owe him an apology imo... for slandering him throughout and then it turns out that you were wrong.
Wow, get a brain and then insert it into your head. Eefrit claims he doesn't know what I say he knew. He has not proven that he doesn't know what I say he knew. The fact of the matter here is that either Eefrit is lying to everyone or Ray McCormack lied to me. Furthermore, Ray had absolutely ZERO reason to lie to me because at the time he informed me that he had disclosed to Eefrit the equity situation it was completely unapparent that that information was relevant to anything like this (becuase this thread was still 1-2 weeks away from being posted). On the other hand, Eefrit who just tried and failed to buy out this business had every reason to know the information I claim he knows and every reason to ask about it. Furthermore, as a competitor to this business he has every reason to try to torpedo the reputation of the person who runs it by releasing incomplete information so he can launch an accusation he knows to be untrue. To sum up, either Ray or Eefrit lied. Ray had no conceivable reason to lie and Eefrit had many reasons for so doing and an objectively reasonable motivation for knowing the information in the first place. Somehow you take his assertion at face value and demand that I apologize to him even after he has bassically treated every person who reads this forum like a mindless idiot who cannot see simple manipulation for what it is. |
Dal Thrax
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 05:47:00 - [ 98]
Time out all. This is starting to look like COAD. Seeing as we have a couple MM people posting in this thread, I have to ask, is this political?
Dal |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2007.05.06 06:01:00 - [ 99]
Originally by: Dal Thrax
Time out all. This is starting to look like COAD. Seeing as we have a couple MM people posting in this thread, I have to ask, is this political?
Dal
What you are observing is correlation, this has nothing to do with politics. RAWR (MM is a candy :p) is composed almost exclusively of former Fountain Alliance members. Tornsoul used to be one of the head sof the Fountain Alliance. The people most likely to trust and defend Tornsoul (and of course those most likely to do the opposite in other contexts) are simply more likely to be drawn from the group of people that have played with him for longer. |
Balogh
Gallente
Real-time EVE Stock Exchange
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 06:57:00 - [ 100]
Originally by: Baun
Ray told me that he told Eefrit that BMBE does not have full equity.
And exactly how does this invalidate Eefrit's claims? |
Erfnam
Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild
Rising Orbit Free Trade League |
Posted - 2007.05.06 08:03:00 - [ 101]
Originally by: Baun
Whether I thought it was a big deal is COMPLETELY irrelevant. The important thing to note is that this is BMBE's problem to deal with and it is not my place to deal with it for them.
Every single one of your posts in this thread has placed you in the position of BMBE defender. I wouldn't be surprised if people started to think you were an alt of TS, since you seemed to take the accusations personally. If you were to follow your own words, you wouldn't have posted so fanatically and this thread would not have gotten as much attention. This would have turned in to most BMBE threads, people waiting (probably for hell to freeze) for an official BMBE response. Originally by: Buan
Wow, get a brain and then insert it into your head.
Eefrit claims he doesn't know what I say he knew. He has not proven that he doesn't know what I say he knew.
...stuff...
Guilty until proven innocent? There is a big difference between saying something along the lines of "BMBE does not have full equity" and saying "BTW, we fscked up and lost about 30% of share value. Oh yeah, we don't want anyone to know." I was an EGSE stock broker for a long time and have been whoring this section of the forum for even longer. I didn't know about the defaulted loan. I'd like to know who defaulted on the loan because I'm curious if it is some one associated with BMBE trying to save their wallet from a pending patch. If I were in a position of trying to buyout another corp, I would walk away from the bargaining table if I received anything less than 100% disclosure of assets, liabilities, etc. From the moment BMBE made the decision to inaccurately report their share value, they stole 15m isk from every share. Baun, I'm shocked that you would defend some one who stole so much isk from you. |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 08:34:00 - [ 102]
Originally by: Baun
Eefrit claims he doesn't know what I say he knew. He has not proven that he doesn't know what I say he knew.
If you consider for a moment what you just said there, I think you'll find it pretty absurd. How would he prove he didn't know something if he didn't know it? I'm interested to learn whether or not Eefrit assumed a false sense of innocence with regards to knowledge of the situation, but... well, read on to hear what I have to say about that. Originally by: Baun
Furthermore, as a competitor to this business [Eefrit] has every reason to try to torpedo the reputation of the person who runs it by releasing incomplete information so he can launch an accusation he knows to be untrue.
...Eefrit had many reasons for [lying]...
...[Eefrit] has bassically [sic] treated every person who reads this forum like a mindless idiot who cannot see simple manipulation for what it is.
I'm a little confused here. If I thought TS was running a scam, wouldn't that make me MORE likely to borrow from him? I know several people came out on top of things with EIB loans that they took out prior to its dissolution in infamy. So why is it in Eefrit's self-interest to lie here? Even if he did, if he stands to make no personal gain from it, why are you focusing solely on lambasting him, and why are you attacking him with more vigor than you are directing towards taking BMBE to task for mismanagement, or at the very least reporting that in the RL world would qualify you for a visit to your friendly local magistrate? MP |
Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 10:11:00 - [ 103]
Originally by: Baun
Ray told me that he told Eefrit that BMBE does not have full equity.
This, of course, is acting on hearsay. Its a far cry from what Eefrit has done in this thread, however.
Short of bringing this information to the public, Eefrit has done nothing wrong. His personal agenda is his own. And again, you are persistantly trying to discredit Eefrit, and take the blame off BMBE completely. Quote:
You can assert that that is what is important, but you would be mistaken. This entire thread has been a disingenuous attempt to frame someone's actions in a false light.
So you consider Eefrit posting facts to suit his circumstances (assuming he did know the truth) more important than BMBE losing 30 billion isk? And all of this withuot a shred of proof? Have you noticed Ray hasn't posted in here. If Eefrit was appraised of the situation, Ray would have posted logs well and truly by now. Quote:
Tornsoul has never stolen anything. To say that this thread has been about the devaluation of BMBE shares is to completely miss the accusations of skimming and improprierty levied.
I never claimed TS was stealing. I don't believe he did. As you said, I do believe it was a poor decision made at the time, which happens to the best of us. The fact that nothing was reported on the matter, and people were led to believe that nothing whatsoever had changed, is the part I am annoyed about. Fact of the matter IS that the share price of BMBE will drop even further because of this information coming to air. Shareholders are finding out that their shares aren't worth as much as they were, a drop of trust in the CEO due to false reporting and/or failing to mention such a large loss. Not only will the share price be devalued due to a lesser amount of isk in the pot, dividends will also drop due to less capital on hand, and at the same time investors will try and offload their shares well below price. I would be surprised if they didn't drop at least 50% in value due to all of this. Quote:
You are claiming that saying Tornsoul conspired to steal money from his shareholders is the same thing as saying he made a stupid mistake one time about 1 year ago. You cannot seriously belive that they are the same.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't for a second believe that TS is trying to steal money etc, my only problem is that the mistake wasn't announced as any normal company in RL would have to do. It isn't exactly a small amount of money lost. Quote:
How does this change anything really? No one wanted to buy these shares already. The dividends will be the same as they have been for the last year.
And that is a valid reason to not bother reporting mass inconsistencies? Dividends will stay at the same low amount, but anyone wanting to sell their shares prematurely gets the royal boot. But who cares, they can be sure that their dividend will remain static for the next 5 years it takes just to break even. Quote:
I would say that you made a bad decision, not start a competing business and then call you a thief to submarine your operations just as I start to compete with you.
You are again trying to bring Eefrit into this. Eefrit didn't default on the loan, Eefrit didn't fail to inform investors, and Eefrit didn't place a cover-up. There are some things he has done, but they are not of any importance in this conversation. You yourself have admitted what happened and confirmed Eefrit's facts. The ONLY one in dispute is whether or not he knew about the incident, and even that is shady due to part of what you said "Ray told me that he told Eefrit that BMBE does not have full equity." As far as I am concerned, this isn't close to reporting a 30b loss. And if Ray only told Eefrit the above with no other clarification, calling Eefrit a liar is completely untrue. |
qrac
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 10:18:00 - [ 104]
Edited by: qrac on 06/05/2007 10:16:05 Originally by: Ricdic
So cut the Eefrit vendetta out, I am personally glad he made this post as it did bring this issue to light. Had he not posted this thread, we'd be oblivious to the fact that a huge sum of capital is now missing. If TS had just come out and reported it when it happened, people would have said 'ok cool, these things happen'. The fact that there was a giant coverup doesn't exactly bode well for BMBE.
I'm not an investor and I knew about the defaulted loan since it was posted here on the forums. Tami Auryn knew about it and I'm certain a lot more knew or figured it out including Eefrit since he actually posted in those threads. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 10:56:00 - [ 105]
Originally by: qrac
I'm not an investor and I knew about the defaulted loan since it was posted here on the forums. Tami Auryn knew about it and I'm certain a lot more knew or figured it out including Eefrit since he actually posted in those threads.
I didn't know about it, personally. As an onlooker, it was extremely annoying to see the childish crap people were spouting in order to avoid repeating that simple fact that there was a 30b defaulted loan. All someone had to do was state that there was a 30b loan that defaulted, instead we had pages full of stuff like "I know why but I won't tell you!", "I have too much respect for tornsoul to say it", "It's public knowledge so I won't tell you!" and my favourite "You already know so I'm not telling." (all paraphrased). Tornsoul himself just sat completely silent through it, going about his normal business. Four little words would have avoided all of this conflict, especially if Eefrit had been answered privately when he asked before going to the forum. "We lost thirty billion". It may not be the best thing to advertise about your business but it would avoid stuff like this. And at the very least, couldn't the corp respond when asked directly by a shareholder? From what I understand, it's been several weeks since the question was asked and it has only just been answered. |
Sortiario
The Scope
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 11:20:00 - [ 106]
Agree on Nyphur.
Further flaming and counter-accusing from all sides in this conflict won't lead to any good, as long as we don't have any evidence whatsoever of the events that are said to have occured, and can't back up any accusations with facts. Basing lies and accusations on hearsay, and playing on interest or personal gains, is not acceptable. This discussion is probably the closest we come to a political scandal in EVE, as it is already political judging from the rhetoric used; little facts, many accusations and presumptions based on nothing factual nor evident.
If Eefrit did, in fact, know about the 30 billion before going public, this implies Eefrit has been lying. But as he has no personal gain (except possibly "personal vendetta", as Baun says), from my point of view, Eefrit has made a sacrifice in order to reveal what is going on in BMBE. Trying to cover up 30 billion loss instead of just saying it, and calling it a mistake may have benefit BMBE in the short run - but when all this comes out later, and in this way, it only harms the corporate image.
If TS have publicated the information about the 30 billion loss, it is apparent that not all of the people in this thread (nor in general, including investors) have been noticed. The information has surfaced in a thread, but not in a official announcement from BMBE, as far as I know. If this is a fact, it only helps the image of TornSoul trying to keep his business methods away from daylight. In my country (Denmark, where Tornsoul apparently lives, too) you can get severely punished if this was a real life corporation, as this is gross fraud against the investors and the market. If I were a BMBE investor, I'd either pull out the plug and sell my shares, or demand a full statement from BMBE, regarding the activities and management going on. |
Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing |
Posted - 2007.05.06 11:31:00 - [ 107]
Now that the answer to this has come out, I have another question.
Who defaulted on the loan? |
Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 11:53:00 - [ 108]
Originally by: Ionia
Now that the answer to this has come out, I have another question.
Who defaulted on the loan?
There seems to be a general consensus (among a select, aparently, informed few) that there was a default and that it was 30 Bill Isk, but so far we have no official word from BMBE so I'm still not convinced that is either true or that it explains the full picture. To avoid furthur issues maybe we should wait for TornSoul to confirm/deny this before we start asking who? (although I am very interested in who if it is in fact true). On another note, I have spent the last few hours trying to find where this information was given on the forums, and the only thing that I can find hinting at it was an note about a year ago that a loan had been defaulted on but that the BPOs were being sold off and any profit/loss would be distributed once sold off. I assumed (fairly I think) that since there was no distribution that there was no profit/loss (i.e. they broke even). I find no mention of 2 x Skiff BPOs and no mention of 30 Bill Isk in capital loss on any public forums, so I am left asking where people got this information from? Could we please get some confirmation whether this is the case or not from someone "official"?Sincerely, Eefrit |
sashimi shuriken |
Posted - 2007.05.06 12:00:00 - [ 109]
I will now present the facts as objectively as possible:
1) Eefrit recently tried to buy BMBE
2) Eefrit engaged in discussions with Ray concerning BMBE
3) Eefrit was given information concerning BMBE
4) Eefrit failed to buy BMBE
5) Eefrit expressed the intent to form competition to BMBE.
6) Eefrit then revealed information which had come about as a result of an information-gathering exercise.
7) Eefrit has paid BMBE a minimum of 9Bn ISK in order to find out information which has given him no declared profit.
8) Eefrit makes it clear he has the information he is using as leverage in his OP. Namely when he states "I suggested he answers it voluntarily without my having to force the answer and make something public of it".
9) An answer is different to the facts stated in a question. Eefrit would not be otherwise requesting the answer he states he posseses.
10) The only person who stands to gain directly from the post given is Eefrit.
10a) The Eve community as a whole cannot be spoken for by one individual, nor can BMBE.
10b) Certainly this would not include a third party with vested interest speaking on behalf of BMBE shareholder.
Oops.
I'd be looking not to invest in any EFS or Eefrit / FIN ventures following this post, and will be selling off stock in EFS as a result. While the company is sound financially, the moral obligation that Eefrit feels is in my opinion compromised by his position as standing to benefit from any difficulty in BMBE. It has been publicly confirmed that either Ray lied to a major shareholder/investor for no reason and no profit or Eefrit lied about BMBE not giving him the information he used to create the post.
Either you trust BMBE and not Eefrit, or you trust neither.
BMBE haven't been without their faults and TornSoul has, frequently, failed to present investors with the requisite information at the requisite times. However, while this is deplorable it is hardly criminal, and anyone who has got out has probably sold their shares to someone who is now happily receiving dividends. Albeit late, but at least credited to the right month.
Eefrit, you were aware that BMBE was undercapitalised and have stated that you are seeking to profit from loss to BMBE in the event of your failing to buy the company.
Personally, I air dirty laundry in private, not in public. I'm sure you do the same. So please don't encourage others to do it.
regards,
Sashimi
Don't ask "who are you?". If you don't know, I've invested in you. |
Ionia
Advanced Manufacturing |
Posted - 2007.05.06 12:25:00 - [ 110]
*snip* Please don't launch into personal attacks and keep it civil -Eldo Originally by: sashimi shuriken
1) Eefrit recently tried to buy BMBE
He offered a change in management, his proposal didn't include him paying anything. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
2) Eefrit engaged in discussions with Ray concerning BMBE
Yep. I have too, as have lots of other people. What is your point? Originally by: sashimi shuriken
3) Eefrit was given information concerning BMBE
ep. I have too, as have lots of other people. What is your point? Originally by: sashimi shuriken
4) Eefrit failed to buy BMBE
See point 1. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
5) Eefrit expressed the intent to form competition to BMBE.
He did as part of his manangement takeover offer, he disclosed his possible future conflicts. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
6) Eefrit then revealed information which had come about as a result of an information-gathering exercise.
No, you can see that his info was about events that happened back in December, it is completely unrelated to his management takeover offer. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
7) Eefrit has paid BMBE a minimum of 9Bn ISK in order to find out information which has given him no declared profit.
Actually, his post says 6b isk. He did it because he took out a loan. He noticed a discrepancy after this because he had take out the loan. *snip* Please don't launch into personal attacks -EldoNo delared profit? He borrowed 50b isk and you think he didn't make a profit? Or is your emphasis on the declared part. I missed the memo about individuals having to declare their profits from private business transactions. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
8) Eefrit makes it clear he has the information he is using as leverage in his OP. Namely when he states "I suggested he answers it voluntarily without my having to force the answer and make something public of it".
No. Read the quote you pasted, it speaks in past tense. What it says is that in his private communication with BMBE he suggested that he answer the question then, instead of him having to take it publicly to force an answer out. The advice was ignored, and he did post it publicly. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
9) An answer is different to the facts stated in a question. Eefrit would not be otherwise requesting the answer he states he posseses.
"An answer is different to the facts stated in a question." I'm not sure what this means. And again, Eefrit does not state he posesses the answer. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
10) The only person who stands to gain directly from the post given is Eefrit.
How? He doesn't gain from this at all. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
10a) The Eve community as a whole cannot be spoken for by one individual, nor can BMBE.
Noone is speaking for the community as a whole. One individual can be spoken for by one individual. TornSoul. Read the shareholder agreement, he is the king of the world when it comes to BMBE. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
10b) Certainly this would not include a third party with vested interest speaking on behalf of BMBE shareholder.
Asking a question of a public company is the right of anyone. Next time, grow a spine and post with your main. All the discussion about Eefrit and Ray McCormack, both of which are good people, is just used as a method to deflect attention away from what this thread is actually about. If you want to attack individuals, do it elsewhere. The thread asked a legitimate question. The efforts that some people have gone to in trying to bury the topic speaks volumes about them. |
Eefrit
Eve Financial Services
|
Posted - 2007.05.06 12:29:00 - [ 111]
Hi sashimi, I'm sorry you feel the way you do in the rest of your post, but it is your right to have an opinion you wish. I would however like to comment on three of your statements. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
7) Eefrit has paid BMBE a minimum of 9Bn ISK in order to find out information which has given him no declared profit.
As a point of fact I have probably been one of BMBEs biggest customers over the last year and it has always been in my personal capacity for the purposes of expanding my own business. You are free to believe I took out a loan just to "find out information" but you would be incorrect in your belief. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
10) The only person who stands to gain directly from the post given is Eefrit.
I fail to see how I would personally gain from this post? BMBE shareholders can not choose to move their investment even if they wanted to, and quite frankly it has no bearing whatsoever on getting customers - if anything it should help with some added exposure to customers. The converse is true however and that is that a show of abuse of trust by a public entity has a negative effect on the overall market confidence in public companies and does in fact hurt all public companies. There was no way I would be party to a coverup and as such never had any real option but to ask relevant questions once it became obvious that something which could only have been unethical was going on behind the scenes. Originally by: sashimi shuriken
Personally, I air dirty laundry in private, not in public. I'm sure you do the same. So please don't encourage others to do it.
I agree fully, when the laundry is personal. I go by the premise that ethics in real life apply to Eve as well and by that I hold that when possible wrongdoing is part of a public company any party that is aware of it is ethicaly bound to report on it (reference Enron, Parmalat, WorldCom etc.). I tried to get answers to this off the forums and failed to get anything more than what I would consider a hint, so was really left with no option in the face of the deafening silence from BMBE. I knew before I even posted the thread that it would make me look bad and shared this much with "unbiased third parties" in the game long before I posted. I asked their advice after giving them all the information that I had available and all of them agreed that it would hurt my reputation but that it would be unethical for me to not do so. I would have kept all these parties identity confidential but Omber Zombie for one has posted that I did, so I will confirm that Omber Zombie was one of the poeple whose advice I sought. I fully expect my revelations to polarise peoples opinions of myself and accept that as much as it pains me to see it. However if I were to do it all over I would post the same thread with the same information and questions (although maybe a rephrase of the topic would be wise considering that a lot of people took the question in the topic as a statement). Sincerely, Eefrit |
Sortiario
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.05.06 13:29:00 - [ 112]
Edited by: Sortiario on 06/05/2007 17:35:56 Originally by: sashimi shuriken
BMBE haven't been without their faults and TornSoul has, frequently, failed to present investors with the requisite information at the requisite times. However, while this is deplorable it is hardly criminal, and anyone who has got out has probably sold their shares to someone who is now happily receiving dividends. Albeit late, but at least credited to the right month.
Wrong. In almost every free country in the world, this is severely punishable. If a corporation fails to deliver accurate details about every aspect of their business which in any way can affect the price of a share, they're first of all very unethical, and second of all keeping the share artificially high-priced. As this is, in fact, fraud against the investors and the stock market community as a whole, most countries in the world have strict policies against this kind of behavior. In fact, Eefrit - and everyone who knew of this - had a moral responsibility to make the information public available in order to expose TS. |
Eldo Davip
ISD YARR
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Posted - 2007.05.06 14:29:00 - [ 113]
Thread cleaned. I understand talking money can raise temperatures, but please keep it civil and don't resort to flaming. |
Marodi Julita
Sublime Captial Investments |
Posted - 2007.05.06 14:44:00 - [ 114]
Originally by: Sortiario
Originally by: sashimi shuriken
BMBE haven't been without their faults and TornSoul has, frequently, failed to present investors with the requisite information at the requisite times. However, while this is deplorable it is hardly criminal, and anyone who has got out has probably sold their shares to someone who is now happily receiving dividends. Albeit late, but at least credited to the right month.
Wrong. In almost every free country in the world, this is severely punishable. If a corporation fails to deliver accurate details about every aspect of their business which in any way can affect the price of a share, they're first of all very unethical, and second of all keeping the share artificially high-priced. As this is, in fact, fraud against the investors and the stock market community as a whole, most countries in the world have strict policies against this kind of behavior. In fact, Eefrit - and everyone who knew of this - had a moral responsibility to publicate the information in order to expose TS.
accounting fraud insert enron. insert ken lay. insert jail time. It's illegal to do that in real life /me is glad he sold his bmbe shares a while back. |
Shadarle |
Posted - 2007.05.06 17:27:00 - [ 115]
Exposing fraud is something anyone with morals would do. It doesn't matter why you do it... it doesn't matter who you are. If you know of someone fraudulently deceiving his own shareholders then you really have a moral obligation to report it. Now you may not personally care about it... so you can tell yourself you'll let that CEO continue to commit fraud as it doesn't bother you. But if it does bother you then it should be reported.
It doesn't matter if Eefrit is the scum of the earth, the question he asked was valid and brought to light some very important information that was being kept secret. This thread actually became far worse because of Baun's posting... it would have been a mystery thread until Baun started flaming Eefrit and kept poking the fire. If I was BMBE I would be furious at him for making this such a big deal. Though if I was BMBE there is no way I could possibly have kept silent for so long... although I also wouldn't have covered up 30B in losses either so I guess forthrightness is not being over-used in any regard, eh? |
Sortiario
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:33:00 - [ 116]
Edited by: Sortiario on 06/05/2007 17:29:51
Yes, it's actually hilarious that the primary defender of BMBE has drawn so much attention to it. If Baun had based his posting on facts rather than hearsay and simple accusations, the image of BMBE and its ethical defenders would probably be different now than that 30 hours ago. |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:35:00 - [ 117]
Originally by: Eldo Davip
Thread cleaned. I understand talking money can raise temperatures, but please keep it civil and don't resort to flaming.
Great, now they're having to bring on the CAOD mods. In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess: Obviously, this is all coming to light now because TornSoul is Tyrrax Thorrk is Evil Thug is Proton Power is DeathGrip is Dianabolic is SirMolle's alt, and Eefrit is an alt of Remedial. Discuss. Originally by: Sortiario
publicate
Ouch. Otherwise, agreed with what you posted there. MP |
Sortiario
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.05.06 17:44:00 - [ 118]
Edited by: Sortiario on 06/05/2007 17:41:36 Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Originally by: Sortiario
publicate
Ouch. Otherwise, agreed with what you posted there.
MP
Yes, I love my danish spelling too.  Anyways, this discussion seems to be dead at least for now, until TS within a few decades have published his monthly report. The last two pages, the main theme has been flaming and counter-accusations, and I don't think that'll change before we have an official statement from BMBE. |
Sillysodus |
Posted - 2007.05.06 21:46:00 - [ 119]
TournSoul is Baun. Baun is Dentara Rast. Dentara Rast is Cally!  |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi |
Posted - 2007.05.07 00:39:00 - [ 120]
Originally by: Ricdic
Short of bringing this information to the public, Eefrit has done nothing wrong. His personal agenda is his own. And again, you are persistantly trying to discredit Eefrit, and take the blame off BMBE completely.
Slight problem. He has been lying throughout this entire thread. He is a liar, he is an attempted blackmailer. If this has shown anything it has shown that Tornsoul made one bad decision and that Eefrit has been dirty from day 1. |
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