Posted - 2007.05.04 00:59:00 - [2]

 

Edited by: Ikasu on 04/05/2007 00:59:04
Actually, it's only logical for Eve to help the majority. If they ignored what everybody wanted, Eve wouldn't be as big as it is today. A good MMO listens to their players, and most of the nerfs were wanted by the majority of players. It was all explained and CCP gives a reason behind everything.

They're nerfing nanos because it's not how they intended the game to be played, they nerfed the privateers because they were abusing the privateers, they nerfed the ctrl Q exploit because....it was an exploit. Accept it and go on.

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:04:00 - [4]

 

Originally by: JoeT

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everyday, eve becomes more care bear. Comes down to who can whine the most?

well here I go on whining. Or maybe i should just send in many petitions yelling account sharing and get people banned?

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Why not follow your whine up with arguments, or is that just to difficult for you?

You say the whiners gets their deal thru. Maybe they do. But they dont do it without arguing their case - where you clearly fails.

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:05:00 - [6]

 

Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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Originally by: JoeT

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everyday, eve becomes more care bear. Comes down to who can whine the most?

well here I go on whining. Or maybe i should just send in many petitions yelling account sharing and get people banned?

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Why not follow your whine up with arguments, or is that just to difficult for you?

You say the whiners gets their deal thru. Maybe they do. But they dont do it without arguing their case - where you clearly fails.

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In such a situation, it would be unfortunate the get the thread locked.

What would you do in the situation of foul play?

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:07:00 - [8]

 

Originally by: Ikasu

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Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Ikasu

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Actually, it's only logical for CCP to help the majority. If they ignored what everybody wanted, Eve wouldn't be as big as it is today. A good MMO listens to their players, and most of the nerfs were wanted by the majority of players. It was all explained and CCP gives a reason behind everything.

They're nerfing nanos because it's not how they intended the game to be played, they nerfed the privateers because they were abusing the privateers, they nerfed the ctrl Q exploit because....it was an exploit. Accept it and go on.

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Valid point, just doesn't apply to this situation.

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I made a typo and said PVP instead of Eve....BUT WAIT, whats this? it has magically changed.

Anyway, what I was trying to address is that CCP listens to Whiners when they're in the majority, or when CCP agrees with what they are saying. I just figured this was another person trying to whine about whiners.

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Well in all honesty you would be correct. However, how far should the effects of whining go?

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:09:00 - [10]

 

What people don't undertsand is that, if they step back and look at them, all the nerfs and updates CCP has made make perfect sense, even if you disagree with them. Personally, I hated the idea of starting with 800K sp, but I understood it.

Whining should only go so far. When it gets to the point of being illogical, or demands that major parts of the game get changed, thats likely when it's gone to far. For example, if someone whined and wanted safe spots and safe belts in low sec space, that would be a bit far and I couldn't imagine CCP paying it any mind. Understand my logic?

I hate trying to convey what I mean when I have a headache.

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:13:00 - [12]

 

Originally by: Ikasu

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What people don't undertsand is that, if they step back and look at them, all the nerfs and updates CCP has made make perfect sense, even if you disagree with them. Personally, I hated the idea of starting with 800K sp, but I understood it.

Whining should only go so far. When it gets to the point of being illogical, or demands that major parts of the game get changed, thats likely when it's gone to far. For example, if someone whined and wanted safe spots and safe belts in low sec space, that would be a bit far and I couldn't imagine CCP paying it any mind. Understand my logic?

I hate trying to convey what I mean when I have a headache.

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I do understand your logic, and I whole-heatedly agree. However, like I said before, how far should the whining be carried, if it only serves to force a decision in moderation?

Apologies about the headache

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:17:00 - [14]

 

Originally by: JoeT

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so... me getting pos password shield, stealing a dread and my friend getting banned for account sharing? Doesn't smell of foul play when no account sharing was going on.

I can give a rat's ass if you haven't heard of me or not. I play eve to enjoy my self with my friends.

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Ohh, sorry. I wish you would have said that was what this was about in the first place. More then likely, if he was banned for account sharing, either the other person had proof or he was account sharing. Most people don't understand just how sensative this rule is. If you let your brother in law play on your account for a day or two, you could still probably get banned.

Still, CCP can only do so much, they have to go with who they believe is right. They have to face this decision god only knows how many times a day. Nobody is perfect, though it is sad that sometimes innocent people have to suffer. I'd try contacting CCP directly if I was you

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:21:00 - [16]

 

Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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Originally by: JoeT

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everyday, eve becomes more care bear. Comes down to who can whine the most?

well here I go on whining. Or maybe i should just send in many petitions yelling account sharing and get people banned?

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Why not follow your whine up with arguments, or is that just to difficult for you?

You say the whiners gets their deal thru. Maybe they do. But they dont do it without arguing their case - where you clearly fails.

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In such a situation, it would be unfortunate the get the thread locked.

What would you do in the situation of foul play?

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A whine without substance and argument is nothing but a whine amd possibly a troll post

A whine with substance and thought-out arguments is a post for debate, allowing a serious and mature discussion which these forums where made for. It does not matter if the arguments are popular or not. Or if you are a superpro carebear or a superpro PvP pirate. The debate field is open, arguments are presented, leaving the field for opposing mature arguments to be presented in the same manner.

While a whine does only take the attention away from the game, filling the forums up with mindless wobble for the devs to sort away - and the mods to lock and delete - The devs can with a whine with substance at least read thoughts and arguments that if not holding validity, at least shows interest in evolving the game - and are able to present arguments for their case.

Besides, nothing is as boring to browse throught the forums, skipping every second post of rants and mindless garbage. I have seen too much of it other places.

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:27:00 - [18]

 

Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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Originally by: Aldir Rundal

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Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

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Originally by: JoeT

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everyday, eve becomes more care bear. Comes down to who can whine the most?

well here I go on whining. Or maybe i should just send in many petitions yelling account sharing and get people banned?

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Why not follow your whine up with arguments, or is that just to difficult for you?

You say the whiners gets their deal thru. Maybe they do. But they dont do it without arguing their case - where you clearly fails.

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In such a situation, it would be unfortunate the get the thread locked.

What would you do in the situation of foul play?

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A whine without substance and argument is nothing but a whine amd possibly a troll post

A whine with substance and thought-out arguments is a post for debate, allowing a serious and mature discussion which these forums where made for. It does not matter if the arguments are popular or not. Or if you are a superpro carebear or a superpro PvP pirate. The debate field is open, arguments are presented, leaving the field for opposing mature arguments to be presented in the same manner.

While a whine does only take the attention away from the game, filling the forums up with mindless wobble for the devs to sort away - and the mods to lock and delete - The devs can with a whine with substance at least read thoughts and arguments that if not holding validity, at least shows interest in evolving the game - and are able to present arguments for their case.

Besides, nothing is as boring to browse throught the forums, skipping every second post of rants and mindless garbage. I have seen too much of it other places.

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Ok. here is what happened. There is a nice shiny dread floating in a space. We decide to take it. By the luck of something, we were able to get the force field password, so we just go on in and take the dread. We decide to keep it, and i sell my dread i bought last year. Today i find that 1.6b is removed from my wallet. My CEO is banned and no one knows whats going on, other then the target alliance has submitted many petitions trying to get me and the CEO banned. So i have the stolen dread in my hanger, my isk from the dread i use to own is missing, and two accounts are banned.

Posted - 2007.05.04 01:29:00 - [20]

 

Originally by: JoeT

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Stuff

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Damnit he beat me to it.

Posted - 2007.05.04 03:45:00 - [22]

 

Hypotheticaly I also know this guy. It is hypotheticaly wrong what was done to the hypothetical account.

Isn't one way the game is played, is to infitrate and take what you want, but when the hypothetical victim crys loudly and often (multiple petitions) CCP caves in.

That is hypotheticaly wrong!

Julius

Posted - 2007.05.04 05:26:00 - [24]

 

It sounds like I may know some of the folks involved, this whole case sounds pretty messed up though I dont know any details (tbh I dunno if I want to know...). If you think these hypothetical peoples got banned unjustly, I'd take it up with the shiny new internal affairs division, they apparently handle this sort of stuff and if GM's were behaving badly, theyll get to the bottom of it.

Posted - 2007.05.04 06:59:00 - [26]

 

I wish people could get past the 'something doesn't DIRECTLY effect me so it's not important, but if it DOES effect me it's the most important thing ever!'

Just because CCP cave in to the whiners but it doesn't end up effecting your gameplay personally, that doesn't mean it isn't a bad thing. For a start, what happens when somebody whines about something that DOES effect you? What do you do, whine back louder?

And for the record, listening to what the majority of the players want IS a bad thing because the majority (if not all) of the players DON'T KNOW what they want. Look at almost every single whine ever - it tried to make the game easier for the whinee. "Let me earn more isk with less effort, let me kill that other player easier, make it easier, let me play with my brain on autopilot, etc etc".

This is born of the belief that a game is only as fun as the 'progress' you make in it. The only fun in the game is to earn as much ISK, fly as a big a ship, and 'win' as much. People want a challenge in a game - that's pretty much the definition of a game - but if you listened to every whine there would be no challenge. Just a big 'print isk now' and 'make that other player's ship explode' button.

Oh, and would you have the same outlook if, for example, WoW were to shut down tomorrow for whatever reason and EVE inherited a million WoW subscribers who suddenly demand EVE be turned into a clone of WoW? They'd be in the clear majority, so surely CCP should listen to them!

That's not a random 'what if' question BTW, that already happened with SWG. It died, EVE got a huge bunch of morons over night who instantly demanded EVE be changed to have ewoks in it (metaphorical ewoks). Not to mention it happens with WoW every day - WoW, by design, has an endgame. And an endgame implies an end. Once you've gotten your epic gear and 'tried' all of the content, there's nothing left to do. You go on to a new game. So EVE already gets to fallout from WoW, the cretins who want to grind up, 'try' everything and move on.

That's not a game by my definition. That's a theme part with a reeeeeally long line for admission to every ride.

(warning: post may contain more rant than actual content, but that's what you get when you post stuff where people at 8am with light hangovers can read it)

Posted - 2007.05.04 10:32:00 - [28]

 

Originally by: Adaris

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You've got a problem with mining? Why don't you capitalise on that and play the game to suit your needs. Thats what we all do.

You don't want to mine? Go kill those who do.
You do want to mine? Go mine the roid so nobody else can.

Do something. But don't be getting angry becasue of a game trend. Adapt...

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You didnt read much of this did you?

Posted - 2007.05.04 14:53:00 - [30]

 

Originally by: Vactet

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This just proves the point...
CCP should have just told anyone whinning to sod off to another game.
Whinning as in unconstructive blabbering like a baby with its midday lunch still plastered on its face.
Theres a difference between whinning and offering constructive pointers and suggestions.
I bet if CCP would have...oh...banned...the first idiot who whinned that alot of things would have been different.
EVE wasnt built for everyone, it served a niche for a VERY LONG TIME. Then kaboom, popularity.
I used to play, err...beta test, a game named..Stupid NDA..anyways.
Game X..had odd gm's. You whine, they say "And what do you propose we do about it?"
If you didnt offer a constructive answer and just whined like a baby theyd usually PK you and then suspend your account for a few days.

Devs..really are cracking to the mass's when it was the niche that kept the game going till the mass's embraced it. Do they forget that?
Seriously, the answer to anyone whinning should be "Tough Luck. Adapt. Rethink.Replay"

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Unfortunately, CCP can't hear you over the sound of themselves selling out.

Excellent point though. Could you evemail me the name of the game you played beta for? Sounds like my kind of dev team.