| Author |
Topic |
Zia Stargazer |
Posted - 2007.03.07 18:52:00 - [ 31]
Edited by: Zia Stargazer on 07/03/2007 18:52:41
Finally i dont understand anyone who uses a DCU on a Domi. If you need your tank to last longer but know you will need to warp out fit a plate. If you want a more sustainable tank fit a hardener or an EANMII. DCU is a comfort blanket that just encourages ppl to hit the warp out button too late. IMO
Cheers
Mike
If you are already running a 4 hardener tank (example 2 therm/2 kin) then the EANM II after stacking penalties gives about 50% of its stated benefit (25% at max skills) or about 12.5% to the thermal and kinetic resists. A Damage control II gives 15% to all armor resists and is not affected by stacking, thus improving the required resists more than the EANM II. As a bonus you more than double your effective hull hp, which is best used as an insurance policy (lag, CTD, late noticed scrambler, etc), rather than as an excuse to warp out late.
You could add a 5th hardener which will be reduced to about 27.5% (assuming t2) after stacking, but only affects one of the resists, while the DCII adds 15% to both important resists. An even trade maybe, but with the DCII you do get the insurance of the extra hull resists.
|
Ezra
Gallente
Calista Industries
Brutally Clever Empire |
Posted - 2007.03.07 23:26:00 - [ 32]
 Originally by: Stainless Rat
Edited by: Stainless Rat on 05/03/2007 09:14:10
Back to the battle
But there's one not so obvious advantage. Drone-based mission runners often complain that their drones aggro the whole room. This is because the drones fly *to* the enemy and get too close to other groups. By using sentries you let the enemy come to you. By the time you switch to heavy drones they'll be well separated from the other groups. Thus, great aggro control.
This is false. The "buddy agro" bug is triggered when any entity other than the mission holder takes hostile action against mission rats. It has absolutely nothing to do with accidental "body pulling". There is a slight chance that something about sentries may exempt them from the buddy agro bug, but it is definately related to hostile offensive action by non-mission holder entities and not "body pulling" The best example I can think of at the moment: In the Serpentis/Guristas version of Worlds Collide level 4, the Serpentis rats in the first room will agro the mission holder as soon as they warp in. The Guristas will ignore them. If a second player warps in and starts flying towards the Serpentis spawn (AWAY from the Guristas spawn), the Guristas will contine to ignore them. The moment the second player takes offensive action against the Serpentis rats, the Guristas will instantly begin attacking that second player. This problem usually manifests itself with combat drones, but it is definately not limited to them. Also, in another section you imply that Repair Systems will improve cap efficiency. Repair Systems only reduces cycle time, which actually INCREASES cap required per unit time, without making any change to HP/cap ratio. The only way to reduce armor repairer cap usage per cycle seems to be the Armored Warfare ganglink that affects armor cap usage, and (I believe) one of the armor rigs. To those who happen to have an alt or a friend - An alt or friend in an Exequeror with decent remote repair and Gallente Cruiser skills can essentially godmode a Domi. With an Exeq remote repping, a Domi can easily handle full-stage agro in even the worst of missions. An Oneiros works even better in this regard, but the Exeq is usually more than sufficient and can also hold more drones to help with DPS. |
Lola Scout |
Posted - 2007.03.08 10:02:00 - [ 33]
If you are already running a 4 hardener tank (example 2 therm/2 kin) then the EANM II after stacking penalties gives about 50% of its stated benefit (25% at max skills) or about 12.5% to the thermal and kinetic resists. A Damage control II gives 15% to all armor resists and is not affected by stacking, thus improving the required resists more than the EANM II. As a bonus you more than double your effective hull hp, which is best used as an insurance policy (lag, CTD, late noticed scrambler, etc), rather than as an excuse to warp out late.
You could add a 5th hardener which will be reduced to about 27.5% (assuming t2) after stacking, but only affects one of the resists, while the DCII adds 15% to both important resists. An even trade maybe, but with the DCII you do get the insurance of the extra hull resists.
Hmm, maybe i need to look at it after all... though tbh if u only need 2 worry about 2 resists the mission is normally pretty easy |
Stainless Rat
Gallente
Hakata Group
Blade. |
Posted - 2007.03.08 11:05:00 - [ 34]
Originally by: Lola Scout
As you get better, use Garde not Wardens. They do more damage and will hit cruisers all the way down to 10 kms so hopefully you only need to release the heavies when mostly everything is dead.
Don't much see the point as heavies do more damage than sentries, especially T2 heavies. The big win for sentries is not having to fly to the target, but that's negated when the enemy gets in close. It also means you're sitting at full stop as the enemy gets in very close when you could be moving away and opening up the range again. Or aligning and accelerating for warp if things look hairy. I like having the ability to move. Thanks for the rig advice. Originally by: Ezra
The "buddy agro" bug is triggered when any entity other than the mission holder takes hostile action against mission rats. It has absolutely nothing to do with accidental "body pulling".
I'm going to test this theory next mission I run and send in the heavies first. Quote:
Also, in another section you imply that Repair Systems will improve cap efficiency. Repair Systems only reduces cycle time, which actually INCREASES cap required per unit time, without making any change to HP/cap ratio.
You're right, my mistake. I'll correct that. |
Ezra
Gallente
Calista Industries
Brutally Clever Empire |
Posted - 2007.03.08 13:20:00 - [ 35]
Edited by: Ezra on 08/03/2007 13:17:35Edited by: Ezra on 08/03/2007 13:17:00 Originally by: Stainless Rat
Originally by: Ezra
The "buddy agro" bug is triggered when any entity other than the mission holder takes hostile action against mission rats. It has absolutely nothing to do with accidental "body pulling".
I'm going to test this theory next mission I run and send in the heavies first.
Not the proper way to test the "bug". For one, it is only present in certain parts of certain missions (I should have clarified that, but it's generally understood that the "buddy agro" bug only affects certain areas of certain missions): Level 4 Angel Extravaganza, first room only Level 4 Serpentis Extravaganza, last room only Level 4 Serpentis/Guristas Worlds Collide, first room only (unless you smack the Angel Spy in the second room, that'll trigger Bad Stuff whether you're mission holder or not, and whether or not you're using drones) Possibly 2-3 others, but those are the ones I can personally confirm myself. In pretty much any other mission, you're safe to have buddies shoot the rats or use drones. Also, care should still be taken to avoid "body pulling". L4 Serp/Guristas WC is a good test case, as you usually will have the entire Serpentis spawn agroed on you before you launch any drones, and the Guristas are far away in the opposite direction. Have those drones ready for a fast recall though, as that Guristas spawn is quite nasty. It's mostly missles, so damage taken from them is not reduced much at long range - they'll fry your drones quite quickly. |
Dahak2150
Arm of Orion |
Posted - 2007.03.08 20:25:00 - [ 36]
Originally by: Stainless Rat
Originally by: Lola Scout
As you get better, use Garde not Wardens. They do more damage and will hit cruisers all the way down to 10 kms so hopefully you only need to release the heavies when mostly everything is dead.
Don't much see the point as heavies do more damage than sentries, especially T2 heavies. The big win for sentries is not having to fly to the target, but that's negated when the enemy gets in close.
Except they don't. T1 heavies do less damage than sentries. Additionally, you don't have to deal with the excruciatingly slow travel time of heavies to start doing damage. T2 heavies do outdamage sentries, but not by a whole lot. There is always a niche for sentries, especially in those missions where one starts 80+km from the baddies. |
GetergdeKaasboer |
Posted - 2007.03.08 22:58:00 - [ 37]
very good post.
took notes as i have a hauler alt that i have run up all the drone skills on as i wanted that toon to be a gallente droner.
currently about 5mil in drones (yes everything is V now but mining I, EW IV, sentry IV, no specials done yet)
gallente BS IV for domi, also have Frig V and CA V but no gunnery skills to speak of
mechanic skills V for hullup and repper
engineering skills V for cap and grid
gunnery sigh 5000pts total (can only use small guns)
I did this based upon using the guns only to agrro stuff and expect to use nos in high slots per your suggestion. looks like M rails special IV would be useful or L for the 350s. |
Ezra
Gallente
Calista Industries
Brutally Clever Empire |
Posted - 2007.03.09 04:34:00 - [ 38]
Originally by: Dahak2150
Originally by: Stainless Rat
Originally by: Lola Scout
As you get better, use Garde not Wardens. They do more damage and will hit cruisers all the way down to 10 kms so hopefully you only need to release the heavies when mostly everything is dead.
Don't much see the point as heavies do more damage than sentries, especially T2 heavies. The big win for sentries is not having to fly to the target, but that's negated when the enemy gets in close.
Except they don't. T1 heavies do less damage than sentries. Additionally, you don't have to deal with the excruciatingly slow travel time of heavies to start doing damage. T2 heavies do outdamage sentries, but not by a whole lot. There is always a niche for sentries, especially in those missions where one starts 80+km from the baddies.
I need to double check my numbers, but except for the travel time issue, I'm fairly positive that sentries have lower DPS than T1 heavies. Remember that while sentries have a much higher damage per shot, they have half the ROF of heavies. (4 second firing period for sentries vs. 2 for heavies) |
Tulisin Dragonflame |
Posted - 2007.03.09 05:16:00 - [ 39]
Take Garde vs Ogre I.
Garde/Ogre
Damage Mod: 1.6/1.6
RoF: 4/2
Damage per shot: 50/24.
So yeah, the sentry comes out ahead by 0.5 DPS + whatever it gets by not having to fly over there. The difference is really pretty insignificant to the point that I still stick with heavies often because I don't have to worry about ABing back to my sentries to grab 'em. |
Stainless Rat
Gallente
Hakata Group
Blade. |
Posted - 2007.03.09 05:51:00 - [ 40]
Edited by: Stainless Rat on 09/03/2007 05:47:17 Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
Take Garde vs Ogre I.
Garde/Ogre
Damage Mod: 1.6/1.6
RoF: 4/2
Damage per shot: 50/24.
So yeah, the sentry comes out ahead by 0.5 DPS + whatever it gets by not having to fly over there.
Those are the numbers, let's throw in some tactical consierations. Sentries are a dead end, there are no T2 sentries (alas). There's little point in training up Sentry Interfacing beyond III or IV. OTOH you really want T2 heavies, so you're going to train up Heavy Drone Interfacing to V. This means heavies will edge out sentries in the long run, even T1s. Additionally, I recommend Wardens for the range over pure DPS. A Warden can hit 50% of the time at 75km with no additional boosting while a Garde can't hit anything until 40km and doing 50% around 30km. If you want to hit further out you need to spend slots on Omnis. This leaves the Garde with a very small envelope to score hits, between 30km and when the enemy starts orbiting. So the Wardens do much more damage overall, having more time to work their targets over, but with a raw DPS of 1.2 they're no match for T1 heavies once time-to-target is no longer significant. |
Galifardeua
Gallente
Completament Tarats
|
Posted - 2007.03.09 07:52:00 - [ 41]
Excellent post. I play mostly the same, but without AB. All capacitor rechargers, and 5 hardeners in low, staying static allmost all the mission. There is only one thing that I dind't like. Originally by: Stainless Rat
If things go wrong
In a mission flying a battleship there really is no reason why you should blow up. Scrambler frigates are taken care of early. You have a lot of armor and hull to give you some room to think. You're keeping the distance open to minimize their damage. As long as you begin warping out at a reasonable time you should be ok. The problem is "at a reasonable time". When my armor gets around half or my cap drops to a third I get ready to warp out by aligning and going to full speed. Once my armor is at a third or my cap at a quarter I recall my drones and warp out. Modify this by how fast you're taking damage and how far away your drones are. The important thing is to leave sooner rather than later. You can always repair and come back. Some rooms I've had to warp in, kill a few ships and warp out again. Tediuos but effective.
Actually when your capacitor is at 1/3 is when it recharges the fastest. So with OK skills that'll be the point you'll stay the longer with one repairer running continously. Also, about the armor going below half, it can happen, and depending on how ou see the fight it can be worth risking it until about 1/3 of armor left. The trick is to feel how much damage are the NPCs dealing you, and how much are you repairing. If they deal much more than you can repair, and you can't kill them fast enough, then it's the time to warp out. For the aggro calling weapong there are lots of different preferences. Some prefer a smal hybrid, after all as a gallente you know how to use it. Some prefer lasers, no ammunition wasted. I used projectiles, plenty of them given by the angel cartel. But what seems the best option is a civilian weapon. Low integration cost and nothing else needed. And you can make a noob happy  . I usually keep the weapon and one of the repairers in manual mode (right click over them to see menu). That way you don't waste ammo (if you use), or capacitor. But well, great job Stainless Rat, it's an excellent guide and it only needs that every person fine-tunes it for it's own personal taste. Have fun. |
Heckelgruber
Quam Singulari
|
Posted - 2007.03.09 08:52:00 - [ 42]
Thanks for the thoughtful and well-written guide, Stainless Rat. I'm quite a new player (joined Christmas 2006) and am currently going the way of mission-running in Gallente drone boats. I'm currently using a Myrmidon and doing L3s but your guide represents exactly what I was thinking the next step for me would be.
With three T1 cap circuit rigs and decent cap skills (plus filling mid slots with cap rechargers) you can get a tank with 2 LARs and 5 active hardeners running continuously... that's what I was thinking of doing. |
Loc Maythan
Gallente
Ty Bach
|
Posted - 2007.03.09 11:33:00 - [ 43]
Edited by: Loc Maythan on 09/03/2007 11:31:26
Edited by: Loc Maythan on 09/03/2007 11:30:33
I must admit that until I read this guide, I was using sentry drones like a complete gooseberry - I had over-estimated the tracking and under-estimated the range, and was trying to shoot rats that were orbiting thinking that targets beyond this would take no/little damage. Honestly, I would have caused more damage if I'd thrown the drones at them from a window.
Hence, I had lost interest in them.
Last night I loaded up some drones for a level 4 - wardens, as recommended - and followed that part of the guide. How joyous it was to single-volley frigates from 50/60km, to take out turrets from 60km without having to wait 30 seconds for the heavies to get there, and to down cruisers practically before they even got me in range!
Great guide. Many thanks.
Loc.
Edited as I am now typing like a gooseberry. |
Jared Valdez
Gallente
Advocates of Sin |
Posted - 2007.03.10 07:40:00 - [ 44]
Since I am quiting eve I think that its time I tell some of my secrets hehe. Very well written post SR. I wont go into too much detail but will offer some ideas.
Ghetto-Domi set-up:
Hi slots- 4-6x 720 howitzers, 1x large smartbomb(low-sec.) ,Drone link/Auto targeter(allows instant 5sec lock time and adds +2 extra targets)
Mid slots- 1x Drone tracking link,1x large cap battery, 3x cap rechargers(Cap boosters are also a semi-cheap way of sustaining cap)
Low slots- 1x LAR+MAR, 4x Hardners, 1x Dmg Control/EANM, 1x cap power relay
Tips- Use Wasps(good dmg and tracking can hit frigs) as main drone unit unless killing angels then use beserkers, combine your 720s with drone firepower on BSs using proper range ammo. Smartbomb frigs if possible. This set up is for newer Domi pilots IMO it is a set up that can successfully run lv4s.
Skills to master:
All drone dmg related = t2 drones
Scout/EWAR drone = drone range bonus up to 54km @lv4 Basic engineering/electronics/mechanics that pertain to your ship and modules
Armor compensation skills= saves cap when using passive
Gunnery in Hybrids or Artillery(saves cap)= more DPS
Weapon/Adv. Upgrades = Better fitting
Navigation= speed and saves cap on ABs
Cybernetics= nice hardwirings and pirate implants
Social= I.S.K.!!!
T2/rigged Dominatrix:
High slots- 6x dual 250 IIs with lead/Irridium
Mid slots- 3x Cap recharger IIs, Afterburner II, Target Pinater II/PWNED
Low slots- 1x LAR II, 4x Hardner IIs,1x EANM II,1x Mag Fld Stab II/ Cap relay/PDU II(if you need more powergrid)
Rigs- 2x cap recharger rigs, 1x armor repair duration rig
Tips- target painter makes this set up own lv4s. You can pop cruisers pretty easily and annhiliate BSs when combined firepower of drones and guns hit. With dual 250s and target painter you can hit a BS at 5kms. I use lead because it is good dmg and cap usage isnt so bad as antimatter. Try other ammo with your tank like thorium and plutonium. If tank holds with guns your all good. T2 heavy drones + target painter can kill frigs np as well, even spider drones. Wasp/Ogre/beserker IIs are a must have. I rarely use sentry drones anymore because I find myself utilizing my rails and multitasking my drones on other targets. But in some situations I found certain sentry drones to be incredibly useful. For example: Mordus Headhunters or Silent the informant or any mission with lots of cruisers orbiting at 20+kms the Garde/Curators +target painter/omni-tracking link pwned them quite fast and saved time. Wardens help in Worlds Collide Serp vs Gurista in killing all the sniper BSs and some snping BCs.
Some thoughts on Rigs:
Suppose you want to increase your dmg potential but you already have max drone/Battleship/hybrid skills. If you dont mind sacrificing speed the rig resistances and equip less hardners in exchage for more dmg mods. Or rig powergrid so you can fit bigger guns(6x 350s would be nice?) Another thought is to maximize your drone potentials by equiping 3 cap recharge rigs so you can fill the mids with drone navigation/tracking mods. Watching T2 Ogres move like scout drones is entertaining:)
Worthwhile Upgrades:
Faction LARs save cap and PG/CPU (shadow serpentis)
Faction Hardners same as above
Cosmos weapons same as above
***Faction/officer Smartbombs will save you lots of time! recomend the darkblood or shadow serpentis if your low on isk:)
My Current setup:
5-6x dual 250 IIs (Darkblood Smartbomb 7500m range)
3 Cap recharger IIs, target painter II, Core X-type AB
Vizanns modified LAR, 4xDarkblood hardners, 2x mag fld stab IIs
2 cap recharge rigs and 1 armor repair amount rig
5x ogre IIs, 5xBeserker IIs, 5x Wasp IIs/wardens
And on a note AE bonus stage I soloed with 1x T2 LAR +AB and 2xexplosive, 1xkin, 1xthermal, 1xEANM Hardner
Just AB away without shooting anything till you out at your max range then fire and the rest of the room will aggro you, keep moving and killing the closest targets and you should be fine. |
Jared Valdez
Gallente
Advocates of Sin |
Posted - 2007.03.10 07:59:00 - [ 45]
continued...
Missions that gave me problems or caught me offguard:
1st lv in angel extravaganza. After figuring out that itll aggro your drones or your gang mate I figured the best way to do it solo is to simply load a extra set of beserkers (t1 expendable) and kill as many as possible before you tank full aggro. You might have to warp out once but oh well.
Stop the thief. Damn Lagg...... .... .... tank well:) and activate tank while in warp. also dont kill the first BS till last.
There used to be some others I had problems tanking but they were nerfed and now I solo them np.
Worlds Collide
Midst of Deadspace
Silence the Informant
Well there you have it folks if you need advice or a wingman in lv4s feel free to contact my new character Sorsha Black ingame. Goodluck on those new lv5s:) |
Kalam
Caldari |
Posted - 2007.03.11 16:42:00 - [ 46]
Edited by: Kalam on 11/03/2007 16:49:22
Edited by: Kalam on 11/03/2007 16:48:13
I have a question about sentry drones: With normal drones that move about, they have the limit to how far they can go that is increased by drone link augmentors. With sentry drones that don't move, can they only shoot as far as this limit, or can they always shoot their maximum range? In other words, would you need the drone link augs for sentry drones to be able to shoot 60km.
I'd also be interested in knowing the OP's or anyone's experiences using a close range blaster and nos setup for level 4s in a domi, if it is as viable or even possible. I am on the brink of buying a domi, but am also tempted by a megathron- The strategy used here would seem to be just as viable with a mega, the long range and sentry drones part anyway, and maybe more viable for a blaster setup too. |
Tulisin Dragonflame |
Posted - 2007.03.11 18:55:00 - [ 47]
Originally by: Jared Valdez
/Auto targeter(allows instant 5sec lock time and adds +2 extra targets)
I'm particularly interested in this little tidbit since I currently have a highslot in my domi basically doing nothing (tractor fitted for mission-specific wrecks and stuff, no PG for guns/anything useful). How do these things work? Is it totally random? Is it worth it? |
Bellator Militaris
Caldari
Freelancers Coalition
Joined Brotherhood |
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:00:00 - [ 48]
To Stainless Steel Rat: Hats off to a great post. You have greatly helped me stay alive in this game. It is rare you find a person who gets to the heart of a subject. Well Done. Wolf Hunters Death Dominix  |
Loc Maythan
Gallente
Ty Bach
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 12:15:00 - [ 49]
Originally by: Kalam
With sentry drones that don't move, can they only shoot as far as this limit, or can they always shoot their maximum range? In other words, would you need the drone link augs for sentry drones to be able to shoot 60km
If you want to be able to select targets for your sentries to attack, then yes, you would need mods to increase your range. With my current setup, my combat drones have a range of 65km; my sentries can also only be told to attack targets up to 65km. If you leave them to their own devices - let them pick their own targets - they may be able to hit targets outside of this range, in the same way that my combat drones sometimes choose to attack targets further than 65km, but sentries, like most drones, work best if you keep them under control, and attack specific targets en masse. Loc. |
Mangus Thermopyle
Divine Retribution
Daisho Syndicate |
Posted - 2007.03.12 13:54:00 - [ 50]
Here is my experience of the drone-aggro-bug (which isnt a bug at all):
- Rats have a certain % to aggro anything thats closer to a threashold. For example, they might aggro 50% of the time on anything closer than 70km. This means that your drones might attract attention when they get to close to another group of enemies. And once a rat has aggroed a drone, he will search for something else to aggro if you return the drones to the drone bay, which means he will aggro you.
- Some rats and most sentries will also trigger a full stage aggro if you fire on them. For example, the sentries in the Extravaganca missions. And the problem here is that they will aggro you at once, which means the drones might fire back on them, and once they do the whole stage will aggro on the drone, and then on you when you return the drone or the drone is killed.
When you know about these two scenarios, its usually possible to keep the drones in check to avoid the so called drone aggro bug. Its also worth to note that sentries will only trigger the second of the two scenarios above, never the first one.
Drones does NOT have some magical draw-fire feature, which seems to be a popular belief. |
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 13:31:00 - [ 51]
Originally by: Kalam
I'd also be interested in knowing the OP's or anyone's experiences using a close range blaster and nos setup for level 4s in a domi, if it is as viable or even possible.
It doesn't work very well. You can't use MWD and an afterburner doesn't get you to the rats quick enough. Once you're in range, a blastathron will tear apart any rat. But in the time you spend getting there, a full rack of railguns would have killed 2 or 3 rats. |
Orontes Ovasi
Minmatar
COGNET SpaceSystems Ltd
Ushra'Khan |
Posted - 2007.03.14 01:22:00 - [ 52]
Excellent post. Thanks. Just figured out I've been standing still on Blockage and not picking up my sentries and running, when necessary. Will read your agent finding guide next. |
DaxSeraj |
Posted - 2007.03.15 17:57:00 - [ 53]
/bump for an amazing guide! |
Pytria Le'Danness |
Posted - 2007.03.16 10:57:00 - [ 54]
Nice guide, well done.
Personally I prefer the "outtank" method since moving away from the NPCs makes the mission take very long and thus boring.
As for rigs: My mission Domi has a cap recharge rig, an armor amount rig and a drone range rig.
With my skills I have a drone range of 69km that way without taking up a high slot. I'm not sure if that is the best solution, but I am very satisfied so far. |
Tragus
Gallente
Integrated Defence Extraction and Acquisition
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 05:42:00 - [ 55]
Great guide. Is there any way to make a shield tank work or does it just defeat the setup? |
Tulisin Dragonflame |
Posted - 2007.03.17 06:11:00 - [ 56]
Originally by: Tragus
Great guide. Is there any way to make a shield tank work or does it just defeat the setup?
Certainly, Gallente are the best passive shield tankers, it is just a lot more expensive to set up a decent passive tank on a Gallente ship. Ask Pottsey for a shield-tanking Domi setup. |
Ezra
Gallente
Calista Industries
Brutally Clever Empire |
Posted - 2007.03.18 00:58:00 - [ 57]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Here is my experience of the drone-aggro-bug (which isnt a bug at all):
- Rats have a certain % to aggro anything thats closer to a threashold. For example, they might aggro 50% of the time on anything closer than 70km. This means that your drones might attract attention when they get to close to another group of enemies. And once a rat has aggroed a drone, he will search for something else to aggro if you return the drones to the drone bay, which means he will aggro you.
- Some rats and most sentries will also trigger a full stage aggro if you fire on them. For example, the sentries in the Extravaganca missions. And the problem here is that they will aggro you at once, which means the drones might fire back on them, and once they do the whole stage will aggro on the drone, and then on you when you return the drone or the drone is killed.
When you know about these two scenarios, its usually possible to keep the drones in check to avoid the so called drone aggro bug. Its also worth to note that sentries will only trigger the second of the two scenarios above, never the first one.
Drones does NOT have some magical draw-fire feature, which seems to be a popular belief.
Neither of these scenarios apply to any of the classic "drone agro" bugged missions, which as I posted before, is really a "buddy agro" bug. To state again, the missions and areas are: Serpentis Extravaganza, final room Angel Extravaganza, first room Worlds Collide (Serp/Gurista), first room Scenario 2 completely fails because a solo Raven that is not launching drones will not trigger full-stage agro under any circumstances. I have a number of corpmates who can do these rooms solo with ease. Scenario 1 fails because in these specific areas, repair drones or "suppor ships" (only using tracking links/remote reppers/shield transfers/etc. - ie not doing anything in terms of hostile action against NPCs) do not ever "body pull" in the aforementioned areas unless they do something REALLY stupid. The specific nature of the bug is that in the aforementioned areas (and possibly a few others), ANY hostile actions taken by an entity other than the mission holder (usually a drone, hence the "drone agro" misconception, but it applies equally to additional players) against the mission rats will result in immediate full-stage agro on the entity that took hostile action. For example, try the following: Do Angel Extravaganza L4 in a Raven without using drones. Note that full-stage agro is never triggered by shooting at ANY rat that is a member of the first spawn in the first room that auto-agros (or any spawn for that matter). Thus, the second scenario you mention is invalidated. Feel free to do the same with friends that are limiting themselves in a support role who are being careful not to "body pull". For example, a logistics ship with "keep at range" set to less than 5km from the mission runner works well here. Same for popping repair drones. By doing this, you can establish a situation that your first scenario will NOT be triggered if you are careful. Now for the test: Have the aforementioned Raven (or any so-so tank) go into the mission. In the case of L4 Angel Extrav, a medium-sized spawn (5-8 rats?) will agro on them. Have another combat ship warp in. Have them perform a "keep at range" at 5km or less from mission holder to continue avoiding your first scenario. This ship had better have a REALLY good tank, or a third player in a logistics ship (or battleship kitted for remote shield transfers or remote repping) is another option. Have the second combat ship take a shot at any of the rats already agroed on the mission holder. One should be enough. Other "hostile" modules (webbers, etc) may also work. I've only tested with rails. :) Note that all remaining rats in the area will IMMEDIATELY agro the second combat ship, with no delay whatsoever (except for possible lag.). |
Pralay
Gallente |
Posted - 2007.03.18 06:18:00 - [ 58]
I think any domi pilot that ignores sentries doesn't deserve the title.
There are times ogres or hammers are the proper tool. The domni bay is big so you can carry a smorgesboard of destruction.
I almost always start with sentries, start blowing stuff up instantly. As soon as too many rats are too close I send out ogres(which now don't have far to fly). Some missions the sentries kill everything before any of it gets close.
Don't forget the only drones with a dmg rig are sentries.
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A Scriv
Gallente
Gravity Mining and Manufacturing Inc
The Company LLC |
Posted - 2007.03.18 14:23:00 - [ 59]
great guide thanks alot, im currently getting up to lvl4s and have bought a domi to do them in, currently on lvl2/3s to get standing up and using the isk made to buy the t2 modules to use. after reading this im gunna train up sentries and rigs at last.  |
Naran Darkmood
Gallente
BlackSite Prophecy
101010 Alliance |
Posted - 2007.03.18 17:15:00 - [ 60]
Excellent guide - it's my tactic for the last year or so...
When you get better and have better equipment, you will do thinks slightly differnt - you won't go to 70 km anymore eg.
For Rigs, I recommend 2 CCCs and 1 nano pump - big deal on your cap from the 2 CCCs (for that reason I can use 1 Omni and 1 normal tracking comp and a AB in the mids) and the nano pump ups your rep amount nicely. 2 Nano pumps hit the speed too much IMO.
For the salvaging/looting, try a Megathron, I use 1 with 5 tractor beams and 3 Salvagers (at salvaging IV). with an MWD and some cargo extenders, it's doing 1000 m/s at 1700 m3 - enough to loot even the annoying scrap metals you get from salvaging. |
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