Posted - 2007.02.22 23:21:00 - [31]

 

The most difficult mission, Enemies Abound 5/5.

The waves spawn insanely fast for the hitpoints/resists they have (especially the "middle" waves), and each of them deals significant damage themselves.
It's the only mission where I don't feel like being able to complete it solo (that, plus the AE bonus room).

Tanking two waves might be possible, but you need a lot of firepower to bring them down before the following next wave of reinforcements arrives and gets into range, so if you couldn't do it on the previous waves (kill them off before next arrives), you probably won't be able to do the same for the next.
Trying to outmanouver them doesn't work all that well, especially since they seem to have a lot of reach, one warpout means you're pretty much doomed on return with all the enemies clustered within striking distance, so you have to wait 'till after DT and retry, or risk too much.



As second most difficult, I'd have to say Stop The Thief.

It's not so much the number of ships or anything, it's the utter surprise you experience the first time you do it, wondering why the heck is the mission THAT easy, and then *blam* 3 extra Machariels right down your throat (plus webbers and all the other niceties).
Still nowhere near as difficult as the above, but can catch you unprepared easily.



Third difficulty tier mission(s), no idea what to say, a tie between Enemies Abound 1/5, Pirate Slaughter, The Blockade, Worlds Collide and maybe even the Extravaganzas.
None of them are THAT difficult per se, not nearly as difficult as any of the above anyway (if done carefully), they're just tricky to complete "safely" and require a bit of brain-work, whereas the first two on the difficulty scale are a matter of muscle almost entirely.

Sometimes, you're facing a major drone/support aggro issue (EA1/5), or simply a massive aggro issue due to design (PS room3) or "user" carelessness. But as long as you do them solo and keep your drones inside when mass aggro can be avoided, and if you keep a decent distance from the aggroed groups, you should be fine.

Posted - 2007.02.23 00:11:00 - [33]

 

As the long time mission ***** that I am I will put in my 2 isk. First off some of the missions that you are naming are not that hard to do if you have just one friend with you. Worlds collide a friend of mine have done with my friend in an enyo to tank it. I was in a gank-a-geddon. We could go through the entire mission both sides in about 40 minutes. Gurrista extravaganza is easier to tank then the angel, but actually has a much higher dps output. Again the bonus to angel extrav is hard for 1 ship to tank, but that same friend was in a dual armor rep domi and I was in a gank zealot and we tanked it and killed everything in a matter of 5 minutes. None of these missions are all that difficult with 1 or 2 friends. If you can have one of them in a tank sacrilege then you are golden.

That said there is one mission that neither one of us will do and that is enemies abound 1 of 5 because we have both lost very expensive ships on that even trying to do it together. I think that is the only mission that I don't ever run. I also hate running vengeance solo because of that boss on the last level. He kills any tank that I throw at him and runs down my cap. I can be in a raven, domi, geddon, or apoc. It doesn't seem to matter. I mean I have soloed it with the infamous warp in and warp out tactic.

All you have to do is to know what damage types are going to be dealt then you should be able to tank and kill any mission. I do not however like the change to all dead space missions, cause I have a problem doing a level 3 blockade with a bs. This has made it very difficult to run that mission like I used to when it was around one of the stargates in the system. Just my little rant on an already old topic.

Posted - 2007.02.23 01:08:00 - [35]

 

Originally by: Hektor Ramirez

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Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 22/02/2007 23:19:42
As Gallente: Any mission with full drone aggro (Serpvaganza, Worlds Collide), Silence the Informant, Pirate Invasion and I guess In the Midst of Deadspace (It's been a while).

Depends entirely on the ship and weapons I suppose. I'll do Mordus Headhunters in a Domi no problem but I'd never bother in an Apoc. I also wouldn't do harder Sansha missions in a Raven probably.

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As a person who often flies missions with corpmates (it's more fun) - Same missions you mention as being bugged. The "drone agro" bug also applies to ANY entity other than the mission holder that takes hostile action against the mission rats, even if they are already agroed on the mission holder.

Specifically, I can confirm that the "buddy agro" bug exists (and is most definately NOT limited to combat drones, and FYI does not trigger when support drones are launched) in the following missions:
Worlds Collide (Guristas/Serp version at least) in the first area. Serps usually agro mission holder first and the Guristas do nothing, but Guristas will mass agro anyone else who attacks the serps.
Angel Extravaganza, first area
Serpentis Extravaganza, last area

Zrakor, if you want to encourage group mission running, the "buddy agro" bug HAS to be fixed. Currently mission agro mechanics serves to strongly encourage solo play - these missions are EASIER for a solo non-drone ship than for gangs.

Posted - 2007.02.23 01:45:00 - [37]

 

Originally by: Isisx

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We will be taking away your 5 most difficult and profitable missions from level 4's and High sec and moving them to low sec and making them level 5's. Please tell us which ones you make the most isk on so that we can screw all of you carebears again. Thanks.

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Hm, thanks for looking out for us but I think most of us have the mental capacity to read and comprehend the question and answer with a list of missions we decline on a regular basis because they're stupid hard solo. I don't mind them making those lvl5 and replacing them with new ones.

Posted - 2007.02.23 01:56:00 - [39]

 

Edited by: Isiss Svorxvo on 23/02/2007 01:55:38

Originally by: Hektor Ramirez

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Originally by: Isisx

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We will be taking away your 5 most difficult and profitable missions from level 4's and High sec and moving them to low sec and making them level 5's. Please tell us which ones you make the most isk on so that we can screw all of you carebears again. Thanks.

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Hm, thanks for looking out for us but I think most of us have the mental capacity to read and comprehend the question and answer with a list of missions we decline on a regular basis because they're stupid hard solo. I don't mind them making those lvl5 and replacing them with new ones.

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Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.

FYI they aren't talking about adding new content to level 4's and letting us carebears keep on playing in High Sec. they are in fact talking about making the high sec level 4's almost no reward by removing rat bounties and placing the hardest and most profitable missions in lowsec space. Like may others have said, some of these missions are fine if done with a friend, some are not.

How do you feel about running these insanely hard missions and having your watch your back every 20 seconds due to pirates scan probing your mission location? I say no thanks, but hey, to each his own. I think plenty of carebears like me will speak to CCP with their credit cards on this issue if it comes to pass.

Edit:

Just to say that i will be taking the above posters option #3

More power to CCP and the rest of EVE for this vision of a player owned pvp wonderland. It's just not my thing all of the time, and i don;t feel like being forced into it.

Posted - 2007.02.23 03:31:00 - [41]

 

Originally by: Hektor Ramirez

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Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 03:02:38

Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo

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Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.

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Ya, exaggeration and panic reactions to the mission blog from someone who runs Angelvaganza in 25 minutes in a faction fitted CNR isn't at all surprising to be honest. If you don't see why you had it coming then you're just oblivious to what the remaining 95% of mission runners is doing. Also there's plenty more appropriate threads where you can voice your concerns about the planned changes without derailing a rare dev request for feedback.

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I am sorry that you ar so misinformed friend. i run missions in a phoon with my brother running support in a second phoon. We each have about 3.1 mil SP's as i quit the game for nearly a year. I use some T2 but no faction. We cannot even complete AE due to the "buddy agro" bug.I still won't take my rig fitted and T2 fitted ship, or my pod with ~100 mil worth of implants into lowsec. No way, no how.

What all of this boils down to is that the DEVs are trying to "fix" things in the wrong way by forcing people into lowsec. I am all about adding new content but i will not be forced into lowsec.

If we could get a real fix on things like lag, buddy agro, and drone agro then some level 4's wouldn't be what they are now.

I happen to agree with you that people running what you describe in faction fitted CNR's is somewhat ******ed. Is that my fault? I just started doing level 4's and for the first time since I played EVE I am actually enjoying the game, because I'm not being ganked in order to make a living.

A real fix to the level 4 inflation issue would be to either balance or completely remove the faction mods. There isn't a pilot in his right mind that is going to fly a ship in low sec with all that crap fitted to it. Hell I wouldn't take a CNR to low sec fitted with T1 mods.

I am expressing an opinion on an open forum and if the mods and DEVs in CCP don't like it, they will delete my comments.

Carebears will be carebars and griefers will be griefers will be griefers. No amount of nerfing or moving things around will ever change that.

All that I and others in this post are saying is that the topic shouldn't be forgotten. Or do you seriously think that they are asking so that they can try to balance this content? These missions have been the same for months or years without change and the only reason to ask about the hardest ones now, is to figure out which ones to move out of high Sec. Plain and simple.

As i said before, if all of this comes to pass and i can't make comparable isk to what i make now ( I don't think me making 15-20 mil a night is too much to ask in 3-5 hours of gameplay), then i will be taking option #3 and removing my CC info.

Then you won't ever have to see my sorry carebear arse again will ya?

Posted - 2007.02.23 05:09:00 - [43]

 

-Pirate Slaughter
-Blockade
-Enemies abound
-Stop the theif


Those are the four that still give me fits. It's too bad casual part-time players are about to be smacked with the nerfbat hard but o-well.

Posted - 2007.02.23 07:00:00 - [45]

 

Enemies Abound (turn it down)
Angel Extravaganza (turn it down)
Worlds Collide (every single mission ship loss I've had has been on WC, I turn it down unless I'm in caldari space and get the gurista one).

All the rest of the missions I find to be not particularly difficult, although Pirate Slaughter was a challenge until I got tactics down correctly. Now it's just long.

Posted - 2007.02.23 09:16:00 - [47]

 

I am an experienced mission runner and I can assure you that there are NO difficult lvl 4 missions ... unless you are refering to the 5 most difficult lvl 4 SOLO missions.

Do us all a BIG favor and improve the AI of NPC's and introduce difficult NON-SOLO lvl 4 missions.

All the previous listed "difficult" missions are a walk in the park for a good gang. Hell, for gangs, these missions only become a challenge when they decide to limit the biggest ship to cruiser class

Posted - 2007.02.23 11:28:00 - [49]

 

Edited by: Chadawahee on 23/02/2007 11:25:06
-Angle ex l4 bonus level
-Enemys Abound
-A case of kidnapping fourth level
-Worlds collide, second level
-Stop the thief, you can srew this up if you kill the wrong ships ...

used to be hard :
-daimsel in distress, doesn't exist anymore but was pretty rough back then
-drones mission, damage has been greatly reduced now and they are easy now

what makes mission hard (or difficult for certain ships) is large groups that are close together, possebly aggroing your drones. also aggro by a large number of frig on warpin can be hard creating a "do or die" situation. mission with a bubble anyone ?

Posted - 2007.02.23 12:07:00 - [51]

 

Originally by: Zrakor

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Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks.

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One point i could make here: devs don't do missions ...

But let's help you out a bit...

Infiltrated Outpost
Rogue Drone Harassment

Make them lvl 5 and move them to low sec, that will teach us to screw with the nerfbat!

To the above posters, i fly a faction / t2 fitted and rigged drake with 3.5 mill sp ( of which 2 mill are in cybernetics, learning and gunnery ) and sollo all missions except the above because they are too difficult...

Posted - 2007.02.23 12:54:00 - [53]

 

While I agree all the missions listed here are difficult, the biggest drawback for me doing them solo is the time. AE takes me 8 hours to kill/loot/salvage. Me-thinks when I become a hulk god, mining will be more profitable.

Posted - 2007.02.23 13:41:00 - [55]

 

Originally by: Hektor Ramirez

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Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 13:29:21
Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 13:27:06

Originally by: Leandro Salazar

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What the hell is so wrong with running missions fast in a faction fitted CNR? People spend 2 bil + for those ships, and getting a decent return on that investment is wrong how?

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If a faction fitted faction ship with variable damage types is a prerequisite to finish a particular lvl4 mission within a reasonable timeframe, if at all, then it's too hard period. That's what's wrong with it. I don't mind anyone making huge amounts of ISK, I'm good I don't care. It's just that maybe it's time people with lasers get to do a mission without calling in sick and packing a lunch.

People have been requesting lvl5 agents for ages, that they'll be in lowsec was to be expected. Easier lvl4 missions means people will be able to do all of them for a change and faster than now, how this will affect their payout remains to be seen but I'm confident it'll balance out at 10-20 mil per hour as it is now, adjusting the total sum of bounties on lvl4 missions hasn't been mentioned in the blog.

And if you've ever run a rogue drone mission and survived the shock of not getting bounties for an hour then I think you'll be able to cope with some of the newer lvl4's not having bounties but ultimately getting paid by selling the bookmark to the local resident salvager/gas harvester/omber miner/whatever mini profession they'll be suited for.

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Uhm, so basically you are saying that it is not right that my 3 bil CNR can run missions faster than your 100 mil Geddon? lol...

Besides, Lasers work fine if you do missions against the correct enemy, my Abaddon beats my CNR on quite a few blood, sansha and drone missions...

And I have no problem at all with bounties being removed, I just don't want to see those level4s that are actually fun and challenging to do in a faction ship being moved to lowsec. In fact they should move those that can be done easily in standard ships there and keep missions that can only be finished in faction ships in highsec

Posted - 2007.02.23 13:56:00 - [57]

 

Edited by: Fliewatuet on 23/02/2007 13:57:48

Originally by: Zrakor

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We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.

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Mission runners do missions alone because they don't want to wait for hours until they have a group of 5 ppl together. They want to play alone. Doing that in 0.0 isn't fun because you have to watch out to avoid others more than you watch to have fun yourself.

Oh, and as a mission runner myself i never ever will gang with anyone i don't know and trust completely. We learned our lesson on gang-gankings in highsec mission systems long ago - and noone wants to loose his ship and his 2b mission fitting that he worked for month to earn.

I think you have quite a lot of points to fight until you get more than the occasional "no-risk-no-fun"-style mission runner to move out of 0.5+

Quote:

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...but ultimately getting paid by selling the bookmark to the local resident salvager/gas harvester/omber miner/whatever mini profession they'll be suited for.

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You don't have experience at all with missions or running them for long, do you? I offered ppl to collect my lvl4 loot after me - for nothing in return... in the evening, in the morning, the time doesn't matter. Noone wanted to - don't ask me why. I thought that a newbie would be happy to do so... but noone was interested, ever.

Those so said mini-professions are useless. If theres enough money to be made with, a mission runner will loot and salvage his stuff himself. If the time isn't worth it, then he won't. And since it takes quite a time to acually find someone to buy a bookmark from you, that time isn't worth it, too.

Regards,
Fliewatuet

Posted - 2007.02.23 14:10:00 - [59]

 

Originally by: Hektor Ramirez

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Yes, yes that's exactly what I was saying, I'm sorry. Next time someone complains about Angelvaganza being too hard I'll just tell him to ask his agent for one of the 3 missions against the correct enemy, thanks CNR guy.

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He's right, you know. Theres a reason you can reject a mission offer, you don't have to accept every single one of them. I'm working for caldari state, i'm flying a Megathron, Dominix or Hyperion, depending on the mission and the enemy to fight. If i don't like a mission, i don't do them. I don't think to myself that a 100M BS should be able to do ALL missions out there without even refitting and start complaining about it on the forums. :)

If you invest more money, you will be faster with the missions you do - or you will be able to beat them without refitting in the middle of it - or do them at all in a reasonable time.

An example: I started a gurista Extra 4 against guristas with a Dominix once. I needed 7 hours to complete it because i had few skills worth mentioning, no money for more than t1 stuff and just heavy t1 drones. I learned, skilled, used better technology to beat them. Now i fly a 2b ship (No, not one of those cnr, thats too boring) and i do them in less than an hour, not counting the time to loot and salvage. Stop being jealous and evolve!

Regards,
Fliewatuet