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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2007.01.25 20:01:00 - [1]
 
Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 26/01/2007 09:20:55
Been explaininig a few things far too often, lets make a thread that might help as a reference guide, while studying ofcourse Smile.. it turned out a bit big, but I had a lot to say..

Before I start I should probably mention i'm a drone purist, the only reason I have a laser on my domi is to aggro rats (and laser means no ammo, always useful) and I now have about 5.3M sp in drones (also I can't use fighters, so these are pure drone sp). Now that I have sounded arrogant enough to say I know a thing or two about drones:

I know a thing or two about drones. I'm gonna limit this story to drones and non-capital ships, ie no fighters and carriers/moros stuff here.


  • First things first, the ship..

    • Gallente have most of the drone shippies, although the amarr have a couple drone beauties too, and certain other ships work well with drones (for instance a Typhoon).

    There can however only be one king and for me that is the Dominix: this cheapest of battleships has a dronebay of 375 (something that the Ishtar can only achieve with lvl 5 HAC and the Eos can't even get with lvl 5 Command Ships..). I suppose the Ishtar is a close second, but with 2 low slots less and lacking the ability to put on heavy nos (something very useful for drone purists), I firmly believe the Dominix at it's lower (and insurable) price, quicker to learn BS lvl 5 and BS sized fittings is your best bet overall.

    Now there are ofcourse many situation where you would rather have a HAC or Recon cruiser, but at that time you will probably already have 5M sp in drones.


  • Secondly, the skills..

    • Time for the skills. As mentioned before, tech II drones are very easy to learn. T2 medium drones are however (at this time) horribly expensive, so before you go off to learn t2 drones lets get some things straight. T2 drones improve your dps considerably. I ran some tests when i could first use t2 meds and my finding was:

      A Tech II drone will do hits comparable to a tech I drone of one class higher. A tech I heavy drone hurts as much per shot as a tech II medium drone. Drone dps is however not just related to damage per second while shooting. A medium drone has a higher rate of fire, but is also faster, a lot faster, and drones need to travel a lot when clearing a group of enemies. I know for a fact that 5 random t2 light drones clear a room of frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers faster than 5 t2 ogre heavy drones.

    So don't be afraid to use t2 light drones at first. Your ship will need to be able to tank a lot anyway, and light t2 drones are incredibly fast and have such a high rate of fire, most rats won't be able to tank anyway. You will also be doing easy criticals more often, so your dps should be near optimal all the time vs the bigger targets.

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.01.25 20:02:00 - [2]
     
    Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 18/04/2007 11:15:46
    Back to the skills:

      Drones – lvl 5 is a must really
      Drone interfacing – lvl 4 is a must, lvl 5 is really really really good (sure it takes a while but consider the impact of 20% extra damage, that's 2 levels of most of your ship skills on a drone ship..).
      Combat drones – lvl 4 is a must if you plan to use light and medium drones much (which you should)
      Scout drones – lvl 5 is a must, you start with 20km control range, 5km for each lvl of this skill is not only useful, the skill at 5 is needed to get t2 drones
      E/W drone operation – useful skill, but one drone link module gives 20km, lvl 5 on this skill only gives 15km drone control range..

      Drone navigation – sharp double edged skill: makes your drones MWD faster, but it also makes them overshoot more, this thread is interesting on this skill
      Drone sharpshooting – the second double edged skill, far less than the first tho.. It improves your drones optimal range, I'll talk about that later, but it can lower your dps in certain scenarios..
      Drone durability – funny, helps a bit, train it to lvl 4 if you have spare time, but drones pop easily, this skill will not be the tie breaker against experienced people.

    Then the big ones.. will you go for heavy drones or sentry drones.. in my honest opinion the ranking is a bit like this:

    Heavy tech II drones >> Sentry drones > Heavy tech I drones

    So yes, t2 heavy drones are the wtfpwnz0rbbqgrill of drones, but if you can't use em, substitute sentries iso heavy tech I..

    I feel that sentry drones are great for pve and have their uses in pvp. My domi never leaves station without 'em (I tend to take wardens, since they are the long range type and kinetic damage is usually pretty good, and I also have a tech II heavy drones for short range. Before I had those I just used 5 wardens and 5 gardes and assorted t2 combat drones. For more info on sentries, check here).

    So in time you're looking at:

      Sentry drones – lvl 4, lvl 5 is optional and unless we get tech II sentries (please) really only if you use sentries a lot (as in you have a sentry drone dmg rig on aswell).
      Heavy drones – lvl 5, without question, only use tech II heavy drones, tech I are for suicide Megathrons and even they should carry sentries in my opinion.

    And of course there are the specialisation skills, get them all and all to lvl 2 or 4, one of the reasons drones are so hard hitting is because you can choose specific damage types, so you will want tech II drones of all types available to you (heavy t2 drones require the specialisation skills at lvl 4) and the skill gives another 2% dmg bonus to the drones that need the skill, 8.5M iskies in the faction regions.

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.01.25 20:03:00 - [3]
     
    Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 26/01/2007 10:03:44

    NB: the Advanced drone interfacing skill is ONLY useful for carrier pilots, the mod you can use with it is just for carriers.


  • Third, 'how do I use drones', in a nutshell

    • Well to start you will need to know your enemy. Basically lets start by dividing this section into pvp and pve, starting with pve.

    The useful thing about fighting pve is that you (should) know exactly who they are and how their tank works, ie what kind of drone to take. Again I have to insert some personal experience here:

    Just because a rat is weakest on EM, doesn't mean you should bring EM drones. Unlike missiles (because lets face it, drones are a lot like missiles in that they only do one type of damage, take time to reach the enemy before they do that damage, and can be killed before they do damage) drones have dmg multipliers. Take for instance a EM drone vs a Thermal drone .. The em drone has higher tracking and higher velocity (very good) but the thermal drone has a higher dmg multiplier (think 50% higher). In most situations the Ogre II will be a better pick (most EM weakest rats have Thermal as the second lowest resistance).

    I should mention here:

      Amarr drones do EM damage, are fast and have decent hitpoints
      Minmatar drones do Explosive damage, are beyond fast and do good damage
      Caldari drones do Kinetic damage, have high shield hitpoints (will talk later on the benefits of this)
      Gallente drones do Thermal damage, slow but do the best damage

      The sentries not only have this setup, but add different ranges, 30, 40 , 50 and 20 km base optimal iirc. Also, although they have an activation range of 250 km, sentries very rarely do any damage beyond 100km. More on activation range later.


    Now you know your enemy and have picked you drone: Lets talk aggro. Most of you will know what aggro is, but for those of you that don't: A ship that commits an aggressive act on your ship is considered aggroed to you. Similarly are you aggroed towards and enemy by an aggressive act. The red blinking targetting brackets in EvE are the indication here.

    Lets not be comfortable with rats shooting our drones (although it can be a valid tactic, i know my sentries have taken a lot of rat aggro) and try and avoid mass aggro in mishes (missions). In some missions you will get jumped on by the entire room just for launching drones, no way to avoid that. Not shooting rat sentry turrets and structures is a good way to start and I like to get aggro on me before unleashing the drones. This means bringing something that is considered an aggressive act to get those rats going. If you use guns, any gun will of course do. If you don't there are other options. Sticking a small/medium laser on is a great way, they don't take ammo. A target painter is also useful, but takes up a med slot, while it's usually the high slots you have spare. Webbers and nos have a max range and are therefore not really useful to cause aggro.

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.01.25 20:04:00 - [4]
     
    Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 26/01/2007 09:43:17
    It does happen sometimes that you have one group aggroed and are having fun (afk?) watching your drones ignoring your commands, when suddenly you see the shields on one or more of your drones vanish.. this means your drones have somehow attracted aggro. This could have happened because they came too close to a different group (although in some missions I've seen mine kill a rat that has flown inside a non-aggroed group without any consequences, so it's a bit random). Sometimes it's best to retrieve it (return and dock), sometimes it's best to immediately attack the rat that is shooting them.
    Drones are very easy to hit while flying (mwd on drones works the same as on ships, exploding sig radius) so chose carefully. Since they orbit at short range they are hard to hit when attacking, especially for long range rats.

      Medium tech II drones rip through frigates like a mega pulse through butter, but like I said they are quite expensive and relatively slow compared to light t2 drones. For pve I therefore recommend using light t2 drones on anything that uses drones as secondary weapon (Raven, Megathron, anything with the large high dmg weapons that will have trouble with frigates). An added bonus is you can usually bring back up light t2 where a raven for instance can only carry 5 medium drones..

      I also recommend light t2 drones for the domi pilots that use heavy tech II drones. If you use sentry drones I recommend using medium t2 drones, since even Garde sentry drones will have a lot of trouble killing cruisers circling within 25 km. And here we come to the afore mentioned problems the Drone sharpshooting skill can cause: I have it trained up quite high to make sure my Wardens kill anything within 100 km, sadly this also means my Gardes prefer 30km iso 20 km. They still rule for shooting stationary targets as close as 2 km, but moving targets have to be BS size to be hit nicely. Like I said, once you have tech II heavies, this isn't a problem, 25 km is a workable distance for these drones and the dmg output is great.

      The auxiliary drones are useless in pve unless you're remote repping someone. The webber drones are large (25m^3 each) drones and could therefore be used by a blasterthron in mishes (to compensate the lack of mwd).. but who does that anyways, just bring rails and combat drones.


    So now pvp.. I have to be honest here and say my pvp experience is old apart from the occasional rabble in empire. But I have been talking to a lot of people and seen/heard many ideas/tactics.

    Drone ships aren't in fleets. Many a fleet commander forbids it, and when you think about it, it makes sense. Drones cause lag, you can't warp instantly without losing your drones and unless you are using sentry drones, they have to travel to the enemy to start hurting them. If you do use sentries their maxium range is 100km (basic stuff really, check the tracking guide for more info, but basically guns don't do much outside optimal+fallof), which is usually not enough for fleet combat. It also means using at least 2 drone links to be able to get 100km control range, which means 2 less big guns. Bringing a domi to a fleet means you will most likely be the repair guy (and why not, you can fit a full rack of both shield and armour maintenance drones, large ones at that).

    Small gang pvp: well you do see the drone ships here, but to be fair you see all sorts in small gang because people become creative. I usually think of small gangs as being nimble and easily redeployed, which can be a problem with drone ships, but the Ishtar is a great HAC and performs very well in small gangs. The Ishkur is a rat ship in my opinion because of the lack of drone dmg bonus and the small drone bay (not even 2 full sets of 5 tech II lights when you have lvl 5 assault).

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.01.25 20:05:00 - [5]
     
    Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 26/01/2007 09:54:03
      The Curse and Pilgrim are great drone ships and have the natural strength of drone dmg ships in their bonus. The sucking of the cap, the draining of energy, Nos and Neut. When you can use drones as your main weapon, you get free high slots. Energy is important, so important that most pvp BS won't leave dock without a cap injector and every square cm of cargo left after ammo stuffed with cap charges. This brings us to the dreaded Nosdomi (the Vexor has been used in a similar way, but lacks the staying power).


    Used mainly in solo pvp, the Nosdomi has been referred to as the 'Iwinbutton', Solopwnmobile' and what not in recent years. Since ecm was introduced to the nerfbat however, the Nosdomi has evolved. Many current Nosdomi's use a dual repper setup, with heavy injector and an array of medium nos (powergrid issues) with tracking disruptor/remote sensor dampener to help keep themselves and their drones alive. Many have been training the tech II large blasters to use 'the other' bonus on the domi, although this takes an awful lot of skills (again with the fitting).

    The operating range of these vessels is very short. You want to be within webber and medium nos range (12km with good mods, 10km with regular stuff). This has as a bonus the drone drag 'n drop tactic: You drop your drones on target, as soon as they get fired on, you retrieve and re-drop them with full shield (sweet stuff, the only reason drones can still be considered viable weapons in pvp tbh, and this makes the caldari drones with their relatively high shield hitpoints great for this tactic. Most of the damage will be instantly healed by this tactic, your drones live longer..).
    What people who .. utter their concerns about this, repeatedly .. don't seem to realise, is that this drops a domi's dps considerably. If i'm hugging the enemy I can usually have them in and out within 5 seconds.. that's 2 missed salvo's. Another considerable bonus to being on top of your enemy in the fight is that you are the closest target, meaning FoF missiles will hit you and not your drones.

    I'm very much against gate camps, but I understand the need to protect territory, so what I would like to see is some creative drone usage. Have sentries hanging several km from the gate while you are on top of it. You will be a huge tackler for them, see em rip through anything once you have double webbed it. Sentry drones are cheap and with the warp-to-0 possibilities you could use 'em in ways new and fresh :). They also have the hitpoints of a small cruiser on a domi, making them hard to pop and smartbombs will rarely reach them. Many people don't like them being static, I think it's a challenge..

    That should be enough about the combat use of drones.


  • Now for the most important thing, drone AI operation, useful for both drone users and drone fighters.

      • Drones right now (rev 1, Jan 25 2007) are bugged and bugged hard. They sometimes get stuck on each other when returning, causing them to hang outside scoop range, they sometimes forget your orders and just attack random viable targets, unlike any of the other weapon systems (not counting smartbombs) there are no t2 mods for them, no damage mod whatsoever, no implants and not all t2 versions are available (sentry). You can't make short cuts for them, the UI is horrible (if you're in a gang/fleet and still want to keep an eye on your drones in space and the overview, best run 1600x1200 stuff), no buttons, no info on drones apart from the base stats (so no account of your skills, ship boni, etc.) the list goes on. Then there are the changes to drones where you can't use your maintenance drones on your own drones any more (argh!, change this back please!!).

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.01.25 20:06:00 - [6]
     
    Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 26/01/2007 10:03:02
    But the most important thing is people get confused with what drones will and will not do automatically. So lets learn Smile:

    1. Drones that are within the control range of their controller will perceive anything that aggroes or has aggroed the controller, from any distance, as a viable target. It will be placed in the 'to do list'. If the drones are in attack mode they will work through this list at random until dead, the list is empty or they are put on 'return' (either to orbit or drone bay).

    2. Drones that are idle (this is the state a drone is in after launch and after it has completed a 'to do list') will automatically attack anything that aggroes the controller, from any range. Drones that are returning and orbiting (this is the state they are in after you have recalled them to orbit you and only after that command) will only automatically attack anything the controller aggroes himself.


    Please read these last things again and again until you understand them. This means that if you ever tell a drone to return and orbit it will not respond to enemy aggro anymore. It also means drones will attack outside your control range and/or lock range, something very useful in missions with those pesky sentry turrets outside your control and lock range, just drop some sentries to kill the last thing you can lock and is within control range, let them destroy it and watch as they kill those 95 km turrets. It can be used against the drone controller by luring his drones out of control range (tho difficult, it can be done).

    Another often misunderstood thing is drone activation range or activation proximity.
      Lets pick a drone to explain this with. The warrior II is the scourge of any interceptor, even a snake set will have trouble surviving these puppies with proper skills, just look at them.. so what sticks out:

      Optimal range 1000m, activation proximity 1000m, orbit velocity 900m/s, max velocity over 5000m/s.. but what does it all mean for the drone..

      A drone has several modes, or functions if you will. While in attack mode (doing the whole 'to do list') it will switch between several functions: the mwd towards target at max velocity, the shoot at enemy and the orbit enemy are the main ones here.
      Basically, if the enemy is within activation proximity, the drone will perform the orbit and shoot functions. If the enemy is outside activation proximity it will do the mwd function.


    Notice here the importance of the activation proximity: this is the orbit the drone will follow, no matter how big the optimal range!! This means some drones don't orbit at their optimal range and increasing it might be very useful or slightly harmful (again this could be related to critical hit chance when not on optimal range)!! If you check out the sentries you will see they have the 250 km activation range, which is also the capped lock range in EvE atm, so they will fire on anything that aggroes you within the rules mentioned above.

    This also means that anything travelling faster than the orbit speed of a drone but slower than the max velocity of that drone can still be killed by that drone (although the drone will like it is learning to drive with the constant mwd-ing). It is however a true mwd, so a drone will coast (I know this is one of the problems fighters have) and can therefore easily overshoot the enemy, meaning a drop in dps due to not shooting efficiently or not shooting at all for a few secs.

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.01.25 20:06:00 - [7]
     
    Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 26/01/2007 10:07:00
    Alright, that should be about enough for now, if anyone has extra info or I made a mistake, lemme know in here or in game, I'll try and rectify it asap. I'll leave you with a few useful tips:

    1. Your ship is not your pod, and your drones are not your ship. I have never been in a situation where it was worth it to stay just to get my drones back, while in a burning ship with a broken tank. I know it's hard but just leave them behind if you feel like you need to get out.


    2. Know the limits of your drones and ship, know when to let your drones run free and when to command them.. these days I just use my heavy t2 drones in lvl 4 mishes to kill everything, controlled BS destruction and then I let them free roam the rest: it goes faster that way, but make sure you can tank the whole room if you do that..


    3. With drones, more is better, only after that is bigger important, and sometimes you would rather have small. A full set of lights will do better than 2 meds and 1 light or 1 med and 3 lights, not to mention 1 heavy. After that you can vary if you want, but remember, with drones being the only weapon system that can be destroyed (quite easily nowadays if you know what you're doing), spare drones are good if they are you're only means of attack.


    4. fly safe and take care of your drones Smile


    5. When starting a thread don't make it into an essay Sad

    David Caldera
    Gallente
    Strix Armaments and Defence
    Posted - 2007.01.25 20:09:00 - [8]
     
    I would have liked your guide more if the links actually worked and didn't mess up the layout so much.

    Still a nice read though. Quite interesting.

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.01.25 20:15:00 - [9]
     
    Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 18/04/2007 11:14:48
    Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 26/01/2007 10:08:43
    Originally by: David Caldera
    I would have liked your guide more if the links actually worked and didn't mess up the layout so much.

    Still a nice read though. Quite interesting.


    Daimn you people are fast.. I noticed the url problem after the first reply, but figured i'd better copy paste reply and edit afterwards so really fast people like you wouldn't be replying between the main thread issue. Thanx tho, hope it helps :)

    Did a lot of editing to improve readability, will think about the sentry drones and the negative effect skills can have some more, insights are welcome

    As of right now (April 18, 2007 Rev 1.4) drones are still as bugged as they were before, there's a big thread on the bugs in the ships and modules section, no dev comments yet Sad

    Added a link to the skill section, it gives you the post in a thread which has a nice insight on the navigation vs sharpshooter skills, clicky here

    Valandril
    Caldari
    Ex-Mortis
    Posted - 2007.01.25 21:00:00 - [10]
     
    Sticky stick, very good guid, altho i won't agree with u about sentrys beeing so leet :P

    The Conduit
    Brutor Tribe
    Posted - 2007.01.25 21:20:00 - [11]
     
    That's a very nice & informative guide.
    Thanks for taking the time to write it out & share it with us.

    Tulisin Dragonflame
    Posted - 2007.01.26 02:00:00 - [12]
     
    Yay, not many drone guides floating around.

    Niko Succorso
    Masuat'aa Matari
    Ushra'Khan
    Posted - 2007.01.26 02:13:00 - [13]
     
    Excellent stuff, straightforward and informative. Who's got the sticky-paste?

    Taipan Gedscho
    Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
    Posted - 2007.01.26 02:19:00 - [14]
     
    Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 26/01/2007 02:20:23
    im pretty sure, the thing about garde sentries and drone sharpshooting is wrong.

    Originally by: Keitaro Baka

    And here we come to the afore mentioned problems the Drone sharpshooting skill can cause: I have it trained up quite high to make sure my Wardens kill anything within 100 km, sadly this also means my Gardes prefer 30km iso 20 km. They still rule for shooting stationary targets as close as 2 km, but moving targets have to be BS size to be hit nicely.


    a higher sharpshooting skill gives your gardes the ability to hit at 30, where they (of course) hit better than at 20.
    but without the skill they cant even hit well at 30.

    in both cases the quality of the hits at 20 is the same.
    yep. im sure bout that. its late and i cba to get into the mechanics. but im sure it wont be long, till someone explains :)

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.01.26 09:10:00 - [15]
     
    Originally by: Taipan Gedscho
    Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 26/01/2007 02:20:23
    im pretty sure, the thing about garde sentries and drone sharpshooting is wrong.

    Originally by: Keitaro Baka

    And here we come to the afore mentioned problems the Drone sharpshooting skill can cause: I have it trained up quite high to make sure my Wardens kill anything within 100 km, sadly this also means my Gardes prefer 30km iso 20 km. They still rule for shooting stationary targets as close as 2 km, but moving targets have to be BS size to be hit nicely.


    a higher sharpshooting skill gives your gardes the ability to hit at 30, where they (of course) hit better than at 20.
    but without the skill they cant even hit well at 30.

    in both cases the quality of the hits at 20 is the same.
    yep. im sure bout that. its late and i cba to get into the mechanics. but im sure it wont be long, till someone explains :)


    Well I had a good long think about this and know from experience that my dps at 20km has dropped considerably since learning the skill up, but I think I know what you mean:

    - consider this:

    You are absolutely right that the range penalty only comes into play beyond the optimal range. However (for me at least apperently) it's the tracking that drags down the overall performance.

    I agree that the maths consider there to be no difference:

    If you have no penalty for range up to your maximum, anything below your optimum that is hit will be hit fully on the rest of the parameters. Here that would mean an identical hit, since the enemy hasn't changed: the same orbit velocity, the same tracking, the same distance and still within optimal.

    So why has my experience shown differently? I'm not sure, maybe critical hits has a higher chance on optimal range (sounds logical), I'm almost completely sure it wasn't some other bonus from a ship/skill/gang that has influenced this..

    So while I agree on the maths, experience has shown it's just not the case.. If someone could shed some more light on this please do, I have tried to make the 'guide' useful through experience, but I do want to keep it correct of couse.

    Miso Saemi
    Salvation Sisterhood
    Posted - 2007.01.29 18:10:00 - [16]
     
    Nice guide. Sticky this please.

    I have a question.
    You use Omni Directional Tracking Link ? I was wondering how much they help your drone and if it's worth a med slot. Also, I've read some people use target painter to help drone hit there target. You know if this is true? And if the Omni Directional Tracking Link is better?

    Thanks for your help.

    P.S. If you had to chose between a Naxy Vexor and a Myrmidon for ratting which one would you use ? I know the Myrm have 25m3 more drone bay but it's slower.

    Liv Dawn
    PPN United
    Against ALL Authorities
    Posted - 2007.01.29 19:39:00 - [17]
     
    nice guide and thanks a lot for the effort you ve had to inform the people out there.

    i d just suggest some more information for starting players and your reasoning more often based on facts rather than experience. not an easy thing to do with drones, i know that. nevertheless really good and informative work.

    Taipan Gedscho
    Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
    Posted - 2007.01.29 19:40:00 - [18]
     
    Originally by: Miso Saemi
    Nice guide. Sticky this please.

    I have a question.
    You use Omni Directional Tracking Link ? I was wondering how much they help your drone and if it's worth a med slot. Also, I've read some people use target painter to help drone hit there target. You know if this is true? And if the Omni Directional Tracking Link is better?

    Thanks for your help.

    P.S. If you had to chose between a Naxy Vexor and a Myrmidon for ratting which one would you use ? I know the Myrm have 25m3 more drone bay but it's slower.


    use the links, youll love them.
    use the myrm, its cheaper and more effective.

    Mog Carns
    Southern Crossfire
    Cartel Syndicate
    Posted - 2007.01.29 20:12:00 - [19]
     
    The Omni Directional is better for your drones than target painters, sensor boosters, or or any of the other good stuff. However, those affect you, your drones, your neighbor, his drones... the omni affects only your drones.

    Worth it? If you got Drone Nav 5 and/or use a drone nav computer or t2 minnie drones and really zipp the little buggers around the battlefield chasing interceptors... yeah, it is totally worth it. If you are zapping battleships with Ogres, not so much.

    Miso Saemi
    Salvation Sisterhood
    Posted - 2007.01.30 15:30:00 - [20]
     
    Ok so I got a myrmidon.
    You think it's better for Pve only (no pvp) that I fit 5 heavys t1 or med and light t2 ? It's to rat vs sansha in 0.0, so cruiser, bc and BS spawn.

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.02.02 22:24:00 - [21]
     
    Originally by: Miso Saemi
    Ok so I got a myrmidon.
    You think it's better for Pve only (no pvp) that I fit 5 heavys t1 or med and light t2 ? It's to rat vs sansha in 0.0, so cruiser, bc and BS spawn.


    Hmm good question. You will be ratting in 0.0, cruiser, BC, BS die well using heavy drones, they die faster using medium t2. Sansha's provide a problem tho: you will want to use EM or Thermal against them, and since thermal drones do so much more damage than em drones, in this case you will want thermal drones.

    Sadly hammerhead II's are (deservedly so perhaps) the most expensive ones out there. The point of using medium drones is that you can carry spares, the point of using medium t2 over heavy t1 is the difference in damage and overall dps they provide. If you carry 10 mediums and 5 lights, you could warp out when you get jumped and still have drones to defend yourself if they catch up with you.

    Losing 5 hammerhead II's hurts the wallet tho, ogre I's are a lot cheaper and easier to get I reckon, it will mean annoyingly slow drones and an empty bay if you ever have to warp out or get dropped..

    So if money isn't an issue, t2 medium and light, otherwise ogre's would be your most efficient bet.

    Fly safe!

    Pottsey
    Enheduanni Foundation
    Posted - 2007.02.02 22:29:00 - [22]
     
    For PvE the Myrmidon could be the king with a shield tank it’s something like 5x tougher then a Domi so lvl 4’s are very easy to solo and it deals another damage to boot while being cheap to buy and fit. The only thing that lets it down is cargo space and drone space.

    Pralay
    Gallente
    Posted - 2007.02.03 01:37:00 - [23]
     
    Good guide but a little too opinionated and absolute on a few subjects.

    Like(at least from PVE perspective):
    * I'd train EW to 4 at least 12km for 0slot is > than 20km 1slot
    * Domi being best drone ship. Speed, t2 resistances are factors too.
    * Training all specs(ogres dam bonus almost always is more than resistance diff which you even mention latter on)
    * Sentries are more usefull than they seem cause they have no travel time, can be scooped instantly(if you don't move) and with simple fitting hit out to 70-80km

    Franny
    Mentis Seorsum
    Posted - 2007.02.03 07:50:00 - [24]
     
    Shocked I was expecting a 'drink heavily as drones are dumb as rocks' to be the basics of the post

    great guide

    Skuld OdinsDottir
    Posted - 2007.02.03 09:10:00 - [25]
     
    Edited by: Skuld OdinsDottir on 03/02/2007 15:02:48
    You are wrong saying light drones have 'such a high rate of fire'.

    Each drone(light , med, heavy) has the same rate of fire wich is 2 secs.
    still reading the rest but thats the first glaring mistake that popped up.

    Keitaro Baka
    Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
    Babylon Project
    Posted - 2007.02.03 22:37:00 - [26]
     
    Originally by: Skuld OdinsDottir
    Edited by: Skuld OdinsDottir on 03/02/2007 15:02:48
    You are wrong saying light drones have 'such a high rate of fire'.

    Each drone(light , med, heavy) has the same rate of fire wich is 2 secs.
    still reading the rest but thats the first glaring mistake that popped up.


    Thanx for mentioning that, I can see how people might interpret my words in that way. What I meant by this is that they have a high rate of fire compared to most weapons on ships that can field a bunch of drones, not compared to other drones. This means they go through frigs very fast. If more people find the text misleading I will change it, but I think this should clear it up enough.


    To Pottsey: ya I must say I have been considering the myrmi shield tanked as being better than the domi and I know you have a real bond with passive shield tanked Gallie ships :). All things considered I still think a domi is better, but the myrmidon certainly is a great drone ship (until it gets the nerf bat)..


    To pralay: upon reading it again I honestly do get your point, I'm giving my opinion quite a lot in there. Heh feel free to step in tho, I consider any feed back cause for investigation.


    To franny: thnx, I'm all for heavy drinking, just be sure to stay in station or jump clones if you need to operate your vehicle after that Wink

    BluOrange
    Gallente
    The OZ Hunters and Mercenary Association
    Black Scope Project
    Posted - 2007.02.04 12:11:00 - [27]
     
    Nice guide. Your comments on the sharpshooting skill contradict the dev's explanation of how tracking works - the tracking guide clearly states that falloff applies only outside the optimal range, not inside it. So the reason your sentries are missing at close range is because they have no tracking speed, not because you trained sharpshooting.

    You really should mention Myrmidon, it gets the same drone bonus as Dominix and has a 125m drone bay. It's not as good, but it's 5 heavies, making it a serious drone carrier. If you want newbie drone pilots to get value, then Vexor is also worth mentioning - 75m gets you 5 medium and 5 light, or 2 heavy, 2 medium and 1 light.

    I like to mix light EM-dealing drones with heavier drones that do explosive. By the time the explosive drones arrive, the EM drones will have finished with the shields and the carnage intensifies. Combine that with rails or blasters, and if your opponent has a weak spot, you'll hit it.

    For close combat, fitting webifiers to your main ship increases the effectiveness of your drones against small targets. With a drone navigation link and a drone tracking module, you can use heavy drones effectively in PVE vs frigates and rogue drones. (Lights would be better, but if you've only got 125m to work with, you have to choose.)

    For group missioning, nothing wins the love and admiration of your corp better than 5 heavy maintenance bots. Each one can tank the damage per second that a battleship puts out, when combined with good resistances.

    When talking about drone aggro, I didn't see you mention 'engage target', which is pretty important. If you've told them to 'return and orbit', 'engage target' is a good way to get them moving again.

    If you're flying a Dominix, then you have more options again - sentry drones can be recalled to the drone bay as the enemy closes in and replaced with something more mobile (heavies vs cruisers and larger, lights and mediums vs frigates).

    I haven't done anything with utility drones yet, but it would be good if they could be covered in detail at some point.

    Lady Kinla
    Caldari
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Posted - 2007.02.04 12:38:00 - [28]
     
    great guide! You did a very nice job of explaining everything. I call for a sticky!

    Taketa De
    Gallente
    Seneca Federation
    Sylph Alliance
    Posted - 2007.02.04 20:30:00 - [29]
     
    Good guide Very Happy

    Originally by: Miso Saemi
    You use Omni Directional Tracking Link ? I was wondering how much they help your drone and if it's worth a med slot.



    The big advantage I see in the Tracking Link is when using Sentry drones. Adding 1-2 of them increases both your range and accuracy. But especially the range can count for a lot in some scenarios.

    Mr Peanut
    STK Scientific
    Rule of Three
    Posted - 2007.02.04 20:47:00 - [30]
     
    Good guide. I learned a few useful things.


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