| Author |
Topic |
DeadDuck
Amarr
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance |
Posted - 2007.01.06 02:26:00 - [ 181]
It was a nice offensive and very well executed, unfortunately ASCN didn’t hold as much as I was expecting, the quality gap between BOB and ASCN leaderships was to big, BUT in my personal opinion you just hit the wrong target, you choose to destroy what could have been your biggest ally, an ally that according with today’s events would have been very handy, like it was in the past. You destroyed ASCN and what have your earn with that, besides fun - and please don’t say that you could only have fun with ASCN -? You have destroyed ASCN and with them AXE pulled back, incapable of dealing alone with AAA. You have now AAA as a neighbour. Don’t know why but I have the feeling that it wasn’t a good swap  ... Even if you put new friendly alliances in the new regions, they will always be weak and will always trust at their landlord’s strength and not at their own strength, we can take as example the Fountain situation. Your biggest victory is also your biggest defeat. The "aura" is lost forever, people now know that BOB are not trusty and are capable of twist sides with a single "NAP RESET". Is not easy to keep friends when you use people like you use. You have reached your zenith and in the horizon the first clouds of a big storm are already showing...I will take the words of the Topic Starter and will say: The higher you are the bigger the fall  Time will tell if you were right and I was wrong. Good luck BOB, I think you will need it. |
Sun Ra
Minmatar
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED |
Posted - 2007.01.06 02:27:00 - [ 182]
so whos moving in? |
Dracolich
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency |
Posted - 2007.01.06 02:36:00 - [ 183]
Now it was a very short war, but had it been as expected - a profitable one?
Was this war for
a) Profits.
b) Keeping the men happy.
c) Eliminating future threats.
d) Complying fullscale warfare as a test, when(if) a "real" threat arrives.
e) Eliminating the buffer-empire, before reaching "the promised land" of DICE.
f) To tread the mill;gain land, assimilate, gain wealth from landlording...(before the next expedition).
g) Perfect target.
h) Some of the above.
i) All of the above.
j) None of the above.
I am merely speculating, as I know nothing of the world of Eve, as it is, and thus I don't represent my corp nor alliance in doing so. |
Rikeka
Amarr
Eye of God
Intergalactic Exports Group |
Posted - 2007.01.06 02:41:00 - [ 184]
Honestly, I`m bit tired of the ASCN/BoB threads so I skipped a few pages, but read Molle`s OP, and I liked it, somehow. To ASCN, well done. That alliance will forever remain on EvE history. To it`s members, the same. Now, you are forced to go separate ways, and try to repeat what you did on ASCN. Learn from the successes of ASCN, and from it`s mustakes.
To BOB, congrats on the victory. Personally, I admit I would have preferred you guys retreated (not entirely, as a powerfull force is always needed), but, I too admit, that this events will certainly make things interesting in the far south.
¨Spoils to the victors¨ and all that. I`m certainly curious on who will reside on former-ASCN space, so will keep an eye on this threads, even though I hate them. |
KIATheClash
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 02:42:00 - [ 185]
Edited by: KIATheClash on 06/01/2007 02:40:57 Originally by: Serret
Originally by: Ma'kai
What I'm saying is where do you draw the line? The stuff BoB posted from ASCN's private forums was just that, private. If BoB got Cyvok's real life email password, would you guys view his private email?
If we got CYVOK's email password, we might look at it.
However, since there is no such thing as a person named CYVOK in real life, I very much doubt that will ever happen.
|
Athus
Caldari
Open Designs
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 02:56:00 - [ 186]
This entire thread has been interesting to me. Although I admit I skipped around the last 3 pages. First I'd like to say Congrats to BoB for a well executed war it would seem. ASCN I am sure worked as hard as they could to defend. I won't deny that I am no fan of BoB for my own reasons however... I see so many crying over spies and forum invasions etc... What do you people think happens in a real war? Do you think that we don't spy on the enemy to try and gather intel on what they are doing? Do you think the enemy is not doing that in return? War is Dirty. It never will be anything but dirty. all the propaganda is part of it as well.. so what.. BoB is stuck up.. they kicked the crud out of something larger than them.. would you not gloat some too? Sure it is a bit long winded. Ignore it of you don't like it. Or get over it. But if you want to whine about spies and propaganda I suggest you go take a long hard look at things such as WWII and any historical information on how war is conducted or even current. And might I remind you that with the little stunt that was pulled a few years ago by Bin Ladden.. the spy network that was taken apart and tossed to the winds was put back into operation. Granted we have an idiot in office who has no idea how to use it right.. but still.. gimme a break about the spies... GF to all of you.  |
HostageTaker
Gallente
Band of Freelancers
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:04:00 - [ 187]
Just wanna say thanks to ASCN, Cyvok and McCreedy. If it wasn't for the " content" that you provided me with, the StarWars sigs wouldn't be featured in a recent 5 page magazine spread concerning the ASCN - BoB war. Really enjoyed seeing my sigs in a magazine.  P.S. (3 of the 35+ sigs made throughout the campaign were shown) |
Feawina
Caldari
Ducks of DooM
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:05:00 - [ 188]
litle note to some:
Eventually all empires shall fall like trees... we are the lumberjacks!!
makes you wonder if any BoB fc´s ever felt the urge to utter in local:
We are the borg...
|
iceyreloaded
Amarr
Initium Malum
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:07:00 - [ 189]
Congrats on crushing victory Bob. I know our corp enjoyed plenty of great skirmishes with you all. There were many frustrating times for us as a Corp. It's been said before, lack of leadership, communication, co-ordination. I'm just repeating so I'll go no further. Personally I felt the turning point moral-wise for ASCN was when CYVOK quit. I was stunned. Now I'll just clarify this is not a personal slight on CYVOK, because I liked the guy from the convo's in TS I had personally, however, the last thing IMO a leader should do is quit when things go wrong. Biggest mistake ever.
Anyway it's all over now, live and learn everyone :)
Cya in space o/ |
Brunswick2
Amarr
coracao ardente
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:10:00 - [ 190]
See you in fountain!  |
Amthrianius
Gallente
Keiretsu
Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:12:00 - [ 191]
Originally by: DeadDuck
You destroyed ASCN and what have your earn with that, besides fun - and please don’t say that you could only have fun with ASCN -?
We took on what we believed from the onset was the most competent enemy that could give us the hardest fight/challenge. At the time D2 was a non-factor really, severely weakened by the beating they took of a few t1 frigs ganking all their dread fleets over and over. We dont really like picking on weak/decapitated targets and wanted something more of a challenge. God knows how fast D2 would have gone back then. Less stations, less members, less well, everything really. Considering D2's state back then if we had gone for you we would have been accused of picking on the weak. If we went and picked a side in the Coalition vs RA thing we would have been accused of bandwaggoning and blobbing, and the lag wouldnt have been as much fun. And well the rest of eve, pfft we would just be accused of playing on easy mode :p Damned if you do and Damned if you don't. /me starts building Hadrian Wall. |
Smoking Mirror
Amarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:28:00 - [ 192]
|
Metal Dude
Gallente
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:29:00 - [ 193]
Edited by: Metal Dude on 06/01/2007 03:30:19
Everyone in BoB can only dreams of massive Titan battles for every single POS that comes out of reinforcement in BoBs space. If we get destroyed, so be it. It will take the whole EVE to do it. Corps in BoB will move on to other, better things. No one will be canceling our subscriptions, that’s for sure and most will be looking for targets and Payback (I love that movie). Count on that.
|
Kcel Chim
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five |
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:44:00 - [ 194]
Originally by: DeadDuck
It was a nice offensive and very well executed, unfortunately ASCN didn’t hold as much as I was expecting, the quality gap between BOB and ASCN leaderships was to big, BUT in my personal opinion you just hit the wrong target, you choose to destroy what could have been your biggest ally, an ally that according with today’s events would have been very handy, like it was in the past.
Ascn were never really great allies to start with. Ascn lied, backstabbed and only cared for itself in the past be it in 5. days or now as in the Tribal Souls conflict. Tho i guess for you (d2?) a nap with a bad ally is more important then a good fight and some destruction on the horizon. Quote:
You destroyed ASCN and what have your earn with that, besides fun - and please don’t say that you could only have fun with ASCN -?
Ascn provided or was supposed to provide the best competition. Afterall they were labeled as one of the titans of eve. Fun and prestige were to be earned by BoB. I understand that might once again be not that important compared to a solid nap with a bad ally to you (d2?). Quote:
You have destroyed ASCN and with them AXE pulled back, incapable of dealing alone with AAA. You have now AAA as a neighbour. Don’t know why but I have the feeling that it wasn’t a good swap ... Even if you put new friendly alliances in the new regions, they will always be weak and will always trust at their landlord’s strength and not at their own strength, we can take as example the Fountain situation.
Please dont compare a npc region with an outpost region, 2 different pairs of shoes. AAA are competent but havent declared a war yet, unless u wanna enlighten us ? Quote:
Your biggest victory is also your biggest defeat. The "aura" is lost forever, people now know that BOB are not trusty and are capable of twist sides with a single "NAP RESET". Is not easy to keep friends when you use people like you use. You have reached your zenith and in the horizon the first clouds of a big storm are already showing...I will take the words of the Topic Starter and will say:
The higher you are the bigger the fall
Time will tell if you were right and I was wrong.
Good luck BOB, I think you will need it.
I think you made a good point at the end of your post, D2 is known for its naps, BoB is known for crushing ppl and honouring agreements. Agreements which can be canceled if they arent beneficial anymore to BoB. Sounds smart and better then a stagnant "nap city". Each to their own i guess. |
Eskalin
Minmatar
Evolution
The Initiative. |
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:44:00 - [ 195]
Edited by: Eskalin on 06/01/2007 03:54:52good times |
Trich Anosis
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:51:00 - [ 196]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
Originally by: Davlin Lotze
Credit is due obviously. Displacing ASCN from Feyth wasn't something that alot thought would be as easy as you made it seem. Well played.
But what I don't get still is why you cheapen your efforts and accomplishments with the Burn Eden-eqse forum spying and the other forms of out-of-game inflitration??? It just makes you look "low rent."
And with the rot from within that was the case with ASCN, the out of game stuff was even more unnecessary. Hell, just find any number of disgruntled current or former ASCN at the outset of this operation and utilize them.
The point here is two-fold, one to congratulate real accomplishment and two, to ask why turnaround and cheap it with stuff that's unnecessary? Wouldn't you come off as even more of a "eve juggernaut" if you eschewed the out of game crap and not inflitrate official alliance forums, TS, etc?
You think it cheapened the war, I claim otherwise. The spying was not necessary to win battles, but it allowed us to show EVE a massive discrepancy between ASCN's public and private personas. In private, BoB was the devil. In public, false respects and various other forms of pandering were shown.
Had ASCN refrained from making such posts in private, we would not have felt the need to expose and refute them in public. Had they not become so upset over the concept of spying, and accused its legitimacy in EVE, we would not have felt the need to continue doing it.
In the end, it was entertainment at their expense. Didn't have to be that way, but that will be a lesson to inherit.
x about 1,000,000^2 |
Shardrael
Caldari
The Fimbriani
Shadow of xXDEATHXx |
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:55:00 - [ 197]
well planned and executed for what its worth most of the best fights in my eve career thus far were from this war and I am thankful for that experience regardless of how much I may dislike some of your forum/out of game tactics you have your **** together and not many would dispute that. heres a toast to whats coming  |
Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance |
Posted - 2007.01.06 03:56:00 - [ 198]
Originally by: DeadDuck
Your biggest victory is also your biggest defeat. The "aura" is lost forever, people now know that BOB are not trusty and are capable of twist sides with a single "NAP RESET". Is not easy to keep friends when you use people like you use. You have reached your zenith and in the horizon the first clouds of a big storm are already showing...I will take the words of the Topic Starter and will say:
Your argument is severely flawed, DeadDuck. Treachery in EVE is when you attack an ally or plot against them under a guise of friendship. There is no treachery in resetting standings when its done the proper way and at the proper time. Everyone has done it at some point or another. Standings are not the equivalent of friendships. You cannot love or hate thy neighbour based on the color of his ship in space alone. Individuals who take it so literally are the same type to cry when they discover their "allies" are not willing to sacrifice everything. Becoming neutral with ASCN yielded as many benefits to them as it did to us. At the time, it appeared as if the northern alliances would attack in a massive coalition. This would have given ASCN the option of participating or opting out and ignoring any requests for assistance. From that moment in history to the start of ASCN war planning and declaration of hostilities lies many months. Either you are conveniently overlooking this fact, or you have not been in D2 long enough to know details. Not to derail this wonderful thread, which has absolutely nothing to do with D2.. but your history with ISS and how the change in standings came about to be is closer to "treachery" than anything BoB has ever done. Its quite obvious when your leadership needs to justify this war by claiming ISS is the cashcow of BoB & LV. By all means, destroy them. Our cashcow is in your back yard.  |
Scared Mofo
Minmatar
Diamonds inc.
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 05:11:00 - [ 199]
Originally by: DeadDuck
It was a nice offensive and very well executed, unfortunately ASCN didn’t hold as much as I was expecting, the quality gap between BOB and ASCN leaderships was to big, BUT in my personal opinion you just hit the wrong target, you choose to destroy what could have been your biggest ally, an ally that according with today’s events would have been very handy, like it was in the past.
You destroyed ASCN and what have your earn with that, besides fun - and please don’t say that you could only have fun with ASCN -?
You have destroyed ASCN and with them AXE pulled back, incapable of dealing alone with AAA. You have now AAA as a neighbour. Don’t know why but I have the feeling that it wasn’t a good swap ... Even if you put new friendly alliances in the new regions, they will always be weak and will always trust at their landlord’s strength and not at their own strength, we can take as example the Fountain situation.
Your biggest victory is also your biggest defeat. The "aura" is lost forever, people now know that BOB are not trusty and are capable of twist sides with a single "NAP RESET". Is not easy to keep friends when you use people like you use. You have reached your zenith and in the horizon the first clouds of a big storm are already showing...I will take the words of the Topic Starter and will say:
The higher you are the bigger the fall
Time will tell if you were right and I was wrong.
Good luck BOB, I think you will need it.
Err well, about those thingies that could hurt BoB, I pretty much think that the moment is gone and you were waving and smiling as it passed by. Now ASCN will assist in killing you again; not as an ASCN entity, but as bigger BoB entity ;) Have fun in D3 perhaps... Nah I'm just rambling nonsense, of course they'll not come after D2. BoB will stop their "Ascendance" now that they had the best fun and when they are blood thirsty, i'm sure they will settle down in feith and have children with the conquered ex-ASCN population and mine to feed their children. Keep chillin' and take it easy |
File
Gallente
The. Unit.
Raptors Allegiance |
Posted - 2007.01.06 05:42:00 - [ 200]
ASCN vs BoB has been my first real PvP experience - and certainly a very interesting one.
I have to admit, that by the end of the war I held far more respect for BoB than I did for most of ASCN.
Yeah BoB are arrogant, often unpleasant - but they're also fun to kill and they don't log out of bubbles (which sadly is a lot more than can be said about many other alliances).
It's been a great learning experience overall, and I feel that I am now far better off. Freed from ASCN I went roaming and had more fun in one night than I did during most of my time in ASCN. I think many ex-ASCN PvP focused people and corps will enjoy eve more now that they can do their own thing. I cannot speak for the industrials - my industrial character exists to fund my PvP chars; ASCN as an alliance was the exact opposite.
My only regret is that we didn't get a "last stand in RIT" - I really was looking forward to it. Yeah we'd have lost - horribly so, but you guys just took too long and we tired of waiting.
On a final note; it's been fun seeing more TAOSP in local than ASCN, and I'll certainly miss the TAOSP capital camps. You guys are by far some of the most professional and courteous players I've encountered - I look forward to shooting, and this time actually killing you, again.
|
BlackSabbath
Gallente
babby gon cry
GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2007.01.06 06:34:00 - [ 201]
molle keep reaching for the " BoB matters" crowd |
WetRain
Minmatar
The Executioners
Capital.Punishment |
Posted - 2007.01.06 07:30:00 - [ 202]
Edited by: WETRAIN on 06/01/2007 07:27:25Yes indeed good Job BoB. Just for all you poster up, do you think that ASCN or any other Alliance that BoB destroyed was because they ran out of money or because they didnt have people to fight, i`l tell you guys a secret, when you are a leader ( a lone one) lets say you are a alliance leader and you got 3 ppl that you can count on and 10 fc`s in your alliance... thats 14 people running 4k ppl... stress gets in ... leaders "warp out" , the lack of leaders always kills a alliance quick and swift  |
Vince Draken
Amarr
D00M.
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2007.01.06 09:42:00 - [ 203]
Originally by: DeadDuck
It was a nice offensive and very well executed, unfortunately ASCN didn’t hold as much as I was expecting, the quality gap between BOB and ASCN leaderships was to big, BUT in my personal opinion you just hit the wrong target, you choose to destroy what could have been your biggest ally, an ally that according with today’s events would have been very handy, like it was in the past.
You destroyed ASCN and what have your earn with that, besides fun - and please don’t say that you could only have fun with ASCN -?
You have destroyed ASCN and with them AXE pulled back, incapable of dealing alone with AAA. You have now AAA as a neighbour. Don’t know why but I have the feeling that it wasn’t a good swap ... Even if you put new friendly alliances in the new regions, they will always be weak and will always trust at their landlord’s strength and not at their own strength, we can take as example the Fountain situation.
Your biggest victory is also your biggest defeat. The "aura" is lost forever, people now know that BOB are not trusty and are capable of twist sides with a single "NAP RESET". Is not easy to keep friends when you use people like you use. You have reached your zenith and in the horizon the first clouds of a big storm are already showing...I will take the words of the Topic Starter and will say:
The higher you are the bigger the fall
Time will tell if you were right and I was wrong.
Good luck BOB, I think you will need it.
That about sums up d2, thank you. |
Vince Draken
Amarr
D00M.
Northern Coalition. |
Posted - 2007.01.06 09:51:00 - [ 204]
Originally by: File
ASCN vs BoB has been my first real PvP experience - and certainly a very interesting one.
I have to admit, that by the end of the war I held far more respect for BoB than I did for most of ASCN.
Yeah BoB are arrogant, often unpleasant - but they're also fun to kill and they don't log out of bubbles (which sadly is a lot more than can be said about many other alliances).
It's been a great learning experience overall, and I feel that I am now far better off. Freed from ASCN I went roaming and had more fun in one night than I did during most of my time in ASCN. I think many ex-ASCN PvP focused people and corps will enjoy eve more now that they can do their own thing. I cannot speak for the industrials - my industrial character exists to fund my PvP chars; ASCN as an alliance was the exact opposite.
My only regret is that we didn't get a "last stand in RIT" - I really was looking forward to it. Yeah we'd have lost - horribly so, but you guys just took too long and we tired of waiting.
On a final note; it's been fun seeing more TAOSP in local than ASCN, and I'll certainly miss the TAOSP capital camps. You guys are by far some of the most professional and courteous players I've encountered - I look forward to shooting, and this time actually killing you, again.
Very good post indeed. |
LUKEC
Amarr
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance |
Posted - 2007.01.06 10:58:00 - [ 205]
Originally by: DeadDuck
It was a nice offensive and very well executed, unfortunately ASCN didn’t hold as much as I was expecting, the quality gap between BOB and ASCN leaderships was to big, BUT in my personal opinion you just hit the wrong target, you choose to destroy what could have been your biggest ally, an ally that according with today’s events would have been very handy, like it was in the past.
You destroyed ASCN and what have your earn with that, besides fun - and please don’t say that you could only have fun with ASCN -?
You have destroyed ASCN and with them AXE pulled back, incapable of dealing alone with AAA. You have now AAA as a neighbour. Don’t know why but I have the feeling that it wasn’t a good swap ... Even if you put new friendly alliances in the new regions, they will always be weak and will always trust at their landlord’s strength and not at their own strength, we can take as example the Fountain situation.
Your biggest victory is also your biggest defeat. The "aura" is lost forever, people now know that BOB are not trusty and are capable of twist sides with a single "NAP RESET". Is not easy to keep friends when you use people like you use. You have reached your zenith and in the horizon the first clouds of a big storm are already showing...I will take the words of the Topic Starter and will say:
The higher you are the bigger the fall
Time will tell if you were right and I was wrong.
Good luck BOB, I think you will need it.
Just bookmarking this for further date. |
King Fury
Caldari
Fury Corp.
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 11:03:00 - [ 206]
So have BoB officially beaten ASCN? What happened to the few corps that were making a last stand? |
Sionn Klorgh
Minmatar
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities |
Posted - 2007.01.06 11:05:00 - [ 207]
Quote:
BUT in my personal opinion you just hit the wrong target, you choose to destroy what could have been your biggest ally, an ally that according with today’s events would have been very handy
and the war is not over for many of us. |
Melkinor T'sbanion
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion |
Posted - 2007.01.06 11:06:00 - [ 208]
Originally by: Ma'kai
No alliance in 0.0 has a right to hide behind the "don't attack us, were industrial and you'll look bad" bull****. Just like that badger, if you can't defend yourself out in 0.0, why the heck are you out there in the first place? ASCN knew BoB was coming. The war should of been about superior numbers vs superior tactics. However, because of poor leadership and communication on ASCN's side, they weren't able to put up any real resistance. BoB won the war because they were the better alliance, plan and simple.
Read Moostangs post upthread. QFT. We tried to bring our advantage (numbers) to the fight. Lag (for me) and node crashes prevented us from blobbing Bob. Sure we had a some poor leadership, but for chrissakes, it is a game, not a freakin' job. (Perhaps BoB+Dev tinfoil habidashery are true and it IS their job to play, but I digress ... ) I was excited to fight, but soon got tired of dying due to lag. Then there were many nights sitting at POS hoping we could cajole other alliance members into joining the gang. Sorry I could not be on for hours on end, waiting for a chance at action. I have a life. |
ArcticFox
Amarr
The Night Crew
|
Posted - 2007.01.06 12:30:00 - [ 209]
Edited by: ArcticFox on 06/01/2007 12:27:34
ASCN destroyed itself, BoB was just a step in that process. Any large PvP alliance with sufficient dedication would have done.
This isn't the fault of everyone in ASCN (I know there were plenty of good people and corps left in there), nor is it the fault of only a few people, but the fact is that well before the BoB attack, it was not the alliance it once had been.
Had ASCN still been even the same alliance that fought G, IRON, and RAZOR in AZN for two months, I beleive you would have gotten your 8-12 month war, and I beleive it would have cost you a fair number of capital ships.
Sadly, the ideals and the shared experience that founded the alliance faded into the background, and ASCN became something else. I beleive the most accurate description I've heard was Xetic 2.0. |
Fitz Chivalry
Gallente
Vengeance Imperium
Wildly Inappropriate. |
Posted - 2007.01.06 12:48:00 - [ 210]
Originally by: ArcticFox
I beleive the most accurate description I've heard was Xetic 2.0.
No, that is not correct. In Xetic the problem was no-one was willing to fight outside of a handful of corps/players. In ASCN, save for right at the very end, we could always get people willing to fight its just that we were badly outclassed in terms of average pvp skill/experience levels, so that we couldnt find a way to do anything with the numbers to make them count. |
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