Posted - 2006.12.11 17:21:00 - [2]

 

Posted - 2006.12.11 17:26:00 - [4]

 

Sergio is right, and implies that Chelsea's time will come. Ofc, this means that RA will win (as who else is Roman Abramovich..?). All congrats to BoB tbh, it was masterful and nobody could say undesering.

Posted - 2006.12.11 17:54:00 - [6]

 

Originally by: DB Preacher

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How about in the final of the first tournament when we were down to 1 eagle and by rights should have lost?

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First tourney:
I don't agree about that at all.
Once it was down to that, it was one deimos without a repairer + a frig vs an eagle with natural resist vs gallante. That could really only go one way.
That fight was all to be decided by which side could kill the others BS first (both commanders picked right targets) - and bob won by a few seconds.
Where you could/should have lost in that tourney was in the semi vs homo erectus et al. But they did a pilot mistake there and went boom.
Overall a good show by bob, and worthy winners.

Second tourney:
BoB came with a ohhh sooo booooring setup, but very effective. The one match where they could/should have lost was the quarter vs SA. The only way to beat that lineup was with a nos-team a la ASCN that BoB didn't expect. But with 30 minutes to go the SA commander changed the nos+remote BS into a turret BS and hence died.

Then of course BoB should have lost in the semi with the CTD. But TWD was basicly lots better in the decision who to call primary - and keep hammering it until it was out of charges.

Naturally, I'm still ****ed about BoB winning this one. Was an overall very professional showing though.

Third tourney:
Cult of war did a poor show in first match, but can't rly be blamed with it being the first match though. The rest of the teams in the group though... rly embarassing they couldn't counter BoB's lineup and win a match.
Playoff... BoB changed line-up completely, and hence deserved to knock out aAa. Burn Eden did a quite disappointing show in quarter. Semi was the only match BoB were in any trouble - had they not won the first seconds of dampening war there, then rasa would prolly have won. So all credit to them. And then the final was a walk in the park.

I'm very disappointed that BoB never ran into any team able to adapt and give them a good running in this tourney. That being said, TWD did really well with his tactics as always - and as always BoB was alot more 'professional' and prepared than most teams. And that combination is what wins you stuff, so hardly surprised by the winners.

Posted - 2006.12.11 18:13:00 - [8]

 

Originally by: Ciphero

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On paper, at least, you should have. That said, neither your shields nor Kayosoni's were struggling, were they?

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Every team who had fought Tyrrax and Jim before in that tourney went for their rapier.
Likewise, any good FC would understand that was a pointless thing to do. Their weakness was the total dependence on cap charges in the big ships. Just keep hammering one of them and stay at it and eventually it'd be out of charges and their team would die.
See the underlined part? That's what they didn't do against BoB. Had they picked BoB's CNR as primary and just kept hauling at it, BoB would have broken after not so many minutes.

Posted - 2006.12.11 18:31:00 - [10]

 

Originally by: TWD

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Well, the scimitar was able to sustain the 4 shield transfers infinitely.

The vulture had 2 shield transfers, cap relays (even with the shield penalty ;), a cap recharger II AND a cap injector. don't see how they would've been able to break the CNRs tank within 15 mins.

The CNR itself had pretty high resists, crystal implant set and a xlarge sb.

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oh yes. But surely the 2 shield transfers from the vulture were nowhere near enough to keep up with that abo****ion em/thermal + a CNR (and marginal dps from the rapier) at it. Afaik, your raven was all gank (as it basicly was your only dps), so it must have had to go through cap charges much faster than that? :s

I think I recall seeing a screenshot after the fight by Kayo, with like 1 cap charge left - despite them changing targets in the fight?

Posted - 2006.12.11 19:06:00 - [12]

 

Originally by: Christopher Multsanti

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Maybe you shouldn't comment on something you haven't done yourself, I thought it was rly embarassing that you couldn't beat Sani Sabik or Triple A.

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That's ok if you think.
Unfortunately it's stated in the rules that one pilot is only allowed to compete for one team

It was embarassing to not be able to bring down Xelas' nos-abaddon in time though. And to have to field an incomplete team vs IAC.

Posted - 2006.12.11 20:50:00 - [14]

 

Dalman, not sure why you keep crying about our team tbh but the OP asked "when have BoB looked mortal". Same goes for the OP a few posts down from Dalmans original post.

I would say that being down to a single ship in one of the most exciting, nailbiting matches there has been made us look quite mortal.

Only the victory at the end of it made us look immortal at the time.

Similar with every other example I gave.

If you guys wanna flame us for stuff like this then tbh, you're rather sad.

dbp

Posted - 2006.12.11 21:08:00 - [16]

 

I have to say it does wound a bit onesided now, with BoB on the upper foot in almost all situations at the moment. I hope I'm not being presumptious having only played the game for around a week but wouldn't it be rather more of a test of skill if we had a tournament in which all ships and modules were provided by CCP on the basis of a flat entry fee and contestant Alliances had to pick and rig from the pool allocated to them.

Sure you still have skill differences but each team has the opportunity to fit the same modules and it wont come down to a who can front the most cash for the endevour. There would be a greater emphasis based on strategic thinking and less of a chance for there to be purely predictable teams flown the same for each round. It would also give BoB a slightly harder time without all their new toys I hear about gained from this win.

Am I being hopelessly Naïve in this idea or does anyone think it could be worth some thought?

Posted - 2006.12.11 21:34:00 - [18]

 

Originally by: DB Preacher

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However, even with the new BS, who is to say we would even use them?

Everything can be killed, regardless of size.

dbp

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Today is not the day to argue this point with you.

I have no great love for BoB, Im not a fanboi by any stretch. But some of the people here dont know what they are talking about.

The rules for this tournament were pretty Anti-BoB to begin with. The +5 points if I recall, and the rules for increased points for Faction BS's. Both were directly aimed at large alliances fielding multi billion isk funded teams.

Posted - 2006.12.11 22:29:00 - [20]

 

Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 11/12/2006 22:30:22
BoB is simply the best - better tacticians, ships, implants, skills, and people.

If this is true, they deserve to win the tournaments - instead of gearing the tournaments to make them lose, how about their opposition practices better?

Posted - 2006.12.12 06:43:00 - [22]

 

1 amarr + 3 caldari = 4 open ccp arranged tournaments

BoB has many good PvPers and some really clever people with solid experience like TWD,
which I might appreciate as high as Dalman in what he does, if I wouldnt know Dalman

GJ, third time can't be pure luck.

Next time let us in the tournie, even Darpz would be too drunk to sign us up amongst the
first alliances.

and if someday we train less and someone remembers to sign as in,
I will personally promise to shoot bobbits in tv.

PS. Even ecliptical is back now, so Shrike might have rematch next year ( we can leave em in frigates )
if you manage get him out of the big piece of metal jail, somebody punished your god with.

PPS: The Bhaal stuck in roid ( we hadnt seen roid before ) in 1st caldari leaving my alliance mates to quarters, The decision "I ask you to follow the plan buts its you who gonna fly there not us." in second to leaving us to semis and finally the better than ever planned and insanely funded, 12 maxed out races to 7 pilots( 5 with dual ) with full rainbow of mindlinked command ship capability -> /dev/null

Bobbits are decent pilots, and as they basis is in PvP activity they cant be truely bad, still iv never considered BoB average members other than cannon fodder, where there is Farjung and TWD there is Dray and Dalman, Shivan and Darpz or Vader29 and Xelios, Zeal and Fedayikin all melt the same when blobbed, wasted or just ****ed up

In 3.5 years and maybe 5000+-3000 hours the differences between average eve players and most experienced and talented is high but far from rl sports.

None of us would propably get in the open championship of 2045, from the 300M player base.

and like I tend to remind myself, if u not sober enough it seems u cant get in the
alliance tournie even in 2006 ;)

PPPS: I hereby promose to send ur at least 1 Bobbits corpse as trophy from the next tournie "where in the shocking final, the already won group of Shivan, Random, Xelios. Vader29 and JediLover podded one of the bobbits and stole his corpse saying bye to titans and unique ships and continued to welcome the life of real band of brothers.

Posted - 2006.12.12 08:08:00 - [24]

 

Edited by: Selim on 12/12/2006 08:10:13
BoB isn't unbeatable. They're good, but any setup can be countered, any tactic can be destroyed. Don't discourage yourself.

I would love to have fought BoB in the final. Even if we lost, it would have been an honor to have tried my best against one of EVE's better tacticians, TWD.

I think the real problem is that people get stubborn and don't want to change their game plan. BoB wins because they look at what the other team fields, and they plan against it, while minimizing the risk of people doing the same against them. The tournament is primarily a contest of setups, coordination and teamwork.

Star Fraction lost against ronin because we stuck with the same setup 4 matches in a row. I had in mind some other setups but ultimately we made the wrong decision, ronin ended up fitting to counter us and we lost fair and square. BoB can lose just as easily in the same manner.

It isn't BoB's fault nobody rises to the occasion. It isn't their fault that the tournament was 'boring' because they won three times in a row. The way I see it, three times in a row, the teams facing BoB failed to adapt. And they became victims of Evolution. (And RKK, and BNC, and Dice, and TAOSP )

edit: BoB may also have a larger selection of skilled pilots, more isk to buy fancier setups, ships and implants, and a reputation that can intimidate some. But as many teams have shown, that even without implants, flashy ships, or 60m SP pilots, you can pull through with better tactics, teamwork and planning.

Posted - 2006.12.12 10:47:00 - [26]

 

Originally by: dalman

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Originally by: Christopher Multsanti

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Maybe you shouldn't comment on something you haven't done yourself, I thought it was rly embarassing that you couldn't beat Sani Sabik or Triple A.

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That's ok if you think.
Unfortunately it's stated in the rules that one pilot is only allowed to compete for one team

It was embarassing to not be able to bring down Xelas' nos-abaddon in time though. And to have to field an incomplete team vs IAC.

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Ok I picked the wrong team i see. Doh!

Posted - 2006.12.12 16:05:00 - [28]

 

Originally by: Selim

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Edited by: Selim on 12/12/2006 08:10:13
BoB isn't unbeatable. They're good, but any setup can be countered, any tactic can be destroyed. Don't discourage yourself.

I would love to have fought BoB in the final. Even if we lost, it would have been an honor to have tried my best against one of EVE's better tacticians, TWD.

I think the real problem is that people get stubborn and don't want to change their game plan. BoB wins because they look at what the other team fields, and they plan against it, while minimizing the risk of people doing the same against them. The tournament is primarily a contest of setups, coordination and teamwork.

Star Fraction lost against ronin because we stuck with the same setup 4 matches in a row. I had in mind some other setups but ultimately we made the wrong decision, ronin ended up fitting to counter us and we lost fair and square. BoB can lose just as easily in the same manner.

It isn't BoB's fault nobody rises to the occasion. It isn't their fault that the tournament was 'boring' because they won three times in a row. The way I see it, three times in a row, the teams facing BoB failed to adapt. And they became victims of Evolution. (And RKK, and BNC, and Dice, and TAOSP )

edit: BoB may also have a larger selection of skilled pilots, more isk to buy fancier setups, ships and implants, and a reputation that can intimidate some. But as many teams have shown, that even without implants, flashy ships, or 60m SP pilots, you can pull through with better tactics, teamwork and planning.

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^^ there is much truth in this post.

But to be honest, a lot of the really well-known teams who were expected to give us a run for our money, got beaten in "upset" matches early on in the tournament. CoW, nebula rasa, SF, Ronin, exquisite malevolence and so on really surprised many people. I think at the start, NO ONE would have predicted the second, third and fourth place to go to the teams that ended up there. I wonder if someone made a lot of isk from betting.

Wether that made it easier for us or not, I don't know. Possibly, but these "less known" teams all earned their wins, and the "top of the line" teams all had (no offense) predictable as hell setups and relatively non-multifunctional pilots. (Even the Imperial apoc is still just an apoc).

Ofcourse that's talking in hindsight. Switching only a few mods here and there while sticking with the same ships and pilots (like we did in the first 4 matches) can be sufficient to stay unpredictable enough to win.

I think this tournament really showed how important being unpredictable is though, the current rule-set meant it was rock-paper-scissors... so sticking with paper meant your opponent in the next match was bound to come with scissors (if they could do so without making themselves too vulnerable to other strategies atleast).