| Author |
Topic |
night darkness |
Posted - 2006.11.23 12:59:00 - [ 1]
Just an idea to combate the growing trend for peeps to form BLOB FLEETS as i feel that this is damaging the game !
basicaly Blob fleets and gate camps are a very poor form of PVP that relies on the fact that even with no player charicter skills and a poor stabbed gimped setupcan be effective if there numbers are 10:1 or so.
i suport the right for players to form these Blob feelts as this is a mmorpg but when you are on the resciving end of this tactic it is very boring as an instapop is always the resualt :(
my idea would be to have every ship have a "maximum damage taken per secound" IE A battleship might have a MDTPS of 2000hp this would mean it might take atleast a few secounds to drop one! i dont intend for this to become a alternative to tanking just giving a player time to fire a shot at primary or jam a cycle.
this would allow small ships to aviod the INSTAPOP that often ocourse in these sercamstances and would allow ships cought in gate campes to warp if they can!
it would change blob taktics as it would no longer make sense to have all ships fireing at primary only enogh to reach MDTPS would be needed alowing for other small skermishis to happen.
Negative effects might be that some battleships that fire slowly and in one massive volly would have to time there fireing in order to do dammage to smaller ships that have a very low MDTPS ie a reven would have to fir two torps a sec from its batterys in order to hit MDTPS each secound:)
anyways thats my idea any suggestions?
dont flame me im only trying to contribute posotivly
:P |
Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 13:02:00 - [ 2]
then you're basically invulnerable in a frigate with an MWD on no? |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core |
Posted - 2006.11.23 13:04:00 - [ 3]
Tux has mentioned they plan to do somthing to discourage (not kill off) blob warefare.
What those plans are anyones guess. Hopefully it will involve pants. |
Lojack Girl |
Posted - 2006.11.23 13:08:00 - [ 4]
 Originally by: Splagada
then you're basically invulnerable in a frigate with an MWD on no?
why? depending what the MDTPS would be it might take as little as two max damage vollys to kill one! |
Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 13:26:00 - [ 5]
Why not just give range a higher impact on hit chance.
Basically, if you want to hit a rabit (stationary) at 1km, its a lot easier than 5km. Currently, range doesn't have much impact, unless you are out of range. |
slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas. |
Posted - 2006.11.23 14:59:00 - [ 6]
Edited by: slothe on 23/11/2006 15:01:17
you got killed and are annoyed and posted this. knee jerk reactionary im afraid. if ccp listened to all posts like this the game would be screwed. and theres a lot of posts like this.
blob warfare (whats a blob? - depends who you are) is ok imho. at least it can be. and it is part of the game. it can be fun as long as servers dont pack up and lag isnt too bad.
gate camping is a necessary evil for many reasons. pirates do it as its where ship traffic is. alliances do it to protect their space. theres loads of ways to not die going through them, you may learn some. also theres ways to avoid them. again you m,ay learn these you may not.
dont forget you should learn from each time you die and think how it could be avoided in the future. most people in this game die often and learn from it and become better players.
others die and moan on forums. which type of player are you?
in fact, if you want to learn how to not die why dont you post "how do i avoid dying going through gate camps in a ......" rather than suggesting the game should be changed to suit you. |
Slevin Kalebra |
Posted - 2006.11.23 15:15:00 - [ 7]
Originally by: slothe
blob warfare (whats a blob? - depends who you are) is ok imho. at least it can be. and it is part of the game. it can be fun as long as servers dont pack up and lag isnt too bad.
Blobs are 'fun' (given the conditions you stated) if they go out looking for a reasonably even fight... anywhere between -50% and +50% of your own blob should provide some degree of fun for both sides. Blobs are not 'fun' (even if you're a part of the blob) when it's 30 ships vs. 1 or 2 poor guys who just happened to cross your path. It's obviously no fun for those who get ganked because they're dead in a couple of seconds and even attempting to put up resistance is futile... even assuming the server lag (on the sudden appearance of 30+ ships on your scanner) allows you to target anything, if you can even kill 1 T1 frigate before you're dust you can chalk that up as a pyrrhic victory ;) It's not exactly fun if you're a part of the blob either (unless you're the sort of sociopath who gets a kick out of bullying the small kid in the playground when you have a dozen of your mates to back you up) - there's not really much skill involved... chances are most of the blob didn't even land a shot on the target before he was atomised. |
slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas. |
Posted - 2006.11.23 15:28:00 - [ 8]
Originally by: Slevin Kalebra
Blobs are not 'fun' (even if you're a part of the blob) when it's 30 ships vs. 1 or 2 poor guys who just happened to cross your path. It's obviously no fun for those who get ganked because they're dead in a couple of seconds and even attempting to put up resistance is futile... even assuming the server lag (on the sudden appearance of 30+ ships on your scanner) allows you to target anything, if you can even kill 1 T1 frigate before you're dust you can chalk that up as a pyrrhic victory ;)
no, in fact it is fun if your part of the blob that kills them. sorry  |
Slevin Kalebra |
Posted - 2006.11.23 15:34:00 - [ 9]
Originally by: slothe
no, in fact it is fun if your part of the blob that kills them. sorry
Then you're probably the kind of sociapath I mentioned. I don't find it fun at all. It's no more of a challenge than killing gurista rats with a Cerb or CNR Raven, therefore it's boring. Having said that, I understand why they are killed - you can't take the chance that they'll report accurate numbers / ship types etc. to anyone. But it is hardly the same buzz as taking on an evenly-matched force (or even when they outnumber you 2:1) and coming out on top. But you probably never tried that. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 15:35:00 - [ 10]
|
Romeda
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 15:40:00 - [ 11]
I'm not 100% happy with blob warfare myself, but I guess strength is in numbers, lets wait and see what ideas Tux and the other Devs come up with. |
Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers |
Posted - 2006.11.23 15:54:00 - [ 12]
Even the best blob moves slowly. If you don't like blobs learn how to avoid them by not being caught by them.
I like small scale warfare myself, but the way alliances work, pos's work, etc blobs NEED to be part of the game.
Limiting damage to prevent it is really the worst idea I've heard about the 'problem'. There is no logic at all behind it. |
Gaven Blands
Caldari
Cosmic Fusion
Systematic-Chaos |
Posted - 2006.11.23 16:27:00 - [ 13]
I figured that the reason I think Eve sucks is because I don't fit in with the Eve crowd. To that end I decided to try being a total knob with no regard for anybody else and to talk a load bobbins.
And still the Eve crowd aren't happy.
Let me try another approach:-
FIX CTRL-Q FFS! YARR!
Do I fit in yet? |
Frater Perdurabo
Amarr
The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria
MERCURY RISING. |
Posted - 2006.11.23 16:34:00 - [ 14]
Edited by: Frater Perdurabo on 23/11/2006 16:35:49
Edited by: Frater Perdurabo on 23/11/2006 16:34:55
bleh no point, i hope this post was joking tho :P
2 edits, meh im going to the pub. |
Anatolius
Amarr
PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 17:10:00 - [ 15]
Originally by: Slevin Kalebra
Originally by: slothe
no, in fact it is fun if your part of the blob that kills them. sorry
Then you're probably the kind of sociapath I mentioned.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." There is nothing so entertaining as the certain, utter destruction of your insignificant foe through strength of arms. There's a reason they're called 'war declarations' and not 'chivalric Concord-sanctioned slaps to the face with a glove'. |
Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle |
Posted - 2006.11.23 17:20:00 - [ 16]
I completely agree with slothe on this one. The reason people play EVE is because dying has permanency attached to it, which means that you suffer a loss of goods.
If you didn't lose stuff, then you wouldn't learn.
Take his advice. Every time you die, you need to sit back and think to yourself:
1) Where did I go wrong?
2) What can I change so that this doesn't happen again?
If your list looks more like this:
1) Those ****tards!!!oneoneone111
2) Whine on forums
Then this is not the game for you.
Neesa |
Xendie
Ad Astra Vexillum
Sc0rched Earth |
Posted - 2006.11.23 17:38:00 - [ 17]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Tux has mentioned they plan to do somthing to discourage (not kill off) blob warefare.
What those plans are anyones guess. Hopefully it will involve pants.
yes and needing to get a 3 times bigger gang just to kill enemy at same speed as before kali is encouraging isnt it? |
Kaemonn
ISD YARR
|
Posted - 2006.11.23 17:46:00 - [ 18]
Thread cleaned. Please play nice and stay on topic. |
Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle |
Posted - 2006.11.23 19:01:00 - [ 19]
No.
Why? Its not realistic - a real life analogy would be shooting a rocket at a car, is the car only going to get a door dented because it exceeds the maximum damage taken per second. |
Zafriel
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League |
Posted - 2006.11.26 22:58:00 - [ 20]
Edited by: Zafriel on 26/11/2006 22:59:30 Originally by: Sakura Nihil
No.
Why? Its not realistic - a real life analogy would be shooting a rocket at a car, is the car only going to get a door dented because it exceeds the maximum damage taken per second.
Not really, more like 1000 rocket launchers clustered together, they all fire at the car but dont really hit due to they have blown each other up. It shouldnt be a percentage of the targets hp, it should be the maximum ammount of firepower that can be thrown at a target at the same time, all dictated by the targets size and the trajectory of the firepower. |
Xamys |
Posted - 2006.11.26 23:07:00 - [ 21]
There' sno point in posting something like this IMO... all you're gonna get are typical replies from either side of the fence (Carebears versus Pirates) as always.
Carebears will say 30:1 fights are no funs and should be allowed, while Pirates will say the opposite. It's a flame-prone post. I'm out hehe |
Redart
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless- |
Posted - 2006.11.26 23:10:00 - [ 22]
Why so this game can become just like every other MMORPG?
No amount of lvl 1s stand a chance against a lvl 35 in most MMORPGs and it's one of the things that make EVE Great is the fact that numbers matter.
You want to change this. I say, go pick up one of the other few hundred MMOs out and leave this alone. |
Paigan
Amarr
Thirdwave
|
Posted - 2006.11.26 23:38:00 - [ 23]
Edited by: Paigan on 26/11/2006 23:42:30 Originally by: Wild Rho
Tux has mentioned they plan to do somthing to discourage (not kill off) blob warefare.
What those plans are anyones guess. Hopefully it will involve pants.
You mean the increase of HP which leads to even more focussed fire and blobbing? Apart from that, the problem simply is: In every ranged weapons game, massing ranged units and using focussed fier is the most effective tactic. This is normaly countered by AoE weapons, which don't exist in eve. As long as there are no AoE weapons (like special torps, damaging ship explosions, etc), there will be no effective and reasonable counter to blobbing (apart from lag). The rest will mostly consist of weird ideas like the one mention by tux about gang ships giving penalties to each other (wtf?!) |
Aeaus
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates |
Posted - 2006.11.27 01:19:00 - [ 24]
This proposal somewhat amuses me since I can reasonbly fit a BS to tank 2000 DPS.  But no, completely pointless idea and too exploitable. If a gang wants to beat the utter living crap out of you, they should be able to  |
Rechal
Active Measures
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 01:25:00 - [ 25]
Having just participated in my first real blob combat, I thought it was fun even though I didn't shoot at anything. It felt like I imagine a real military op would, and when a poor sap jumped into system (cov ops even warned he was coming) and was instantly destroyed, I felt sorry for him, but hey, that's an unlucky break.
If you read the forums you might think these things are super common. Actually, they aren't. A good sized blob takes a while to form up and get organized, it takes planning. If you do ever happen to run into one, it's probably just blind chance, in which case you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nothing to be done about it but live and learn.
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance |
Posted - 2006.11.27 01:34:00 - [ 26]
There are plenty of less extreme Blob-busting ideas that stay within the game mechanics, to be honest. Something like this would basically change all of EVE for the worse............ |
Vrizuh
VTECHS |
Posted - 2006.11.27 02:59:00 - [ 27]
Edited by: Vrizuh on 27/11/2006 03:01:14
There is no non-exploitable way to handle it. Much like in other games there is often no penalty for attacking weaker characters aside from setting up safe areas (like hi sec) for that reason.
All you can do is make it less desirable, rather than punishable. For instance:
On jump in, throw a character anywhere between 5km from the gate and 150km from the gate. (Maybe modify this for gangs).
Keep the cloak (until char move)
Put a short timer on ship that makes it yield no modules if destroyed before timer runs out.
This wont save you from a griefer. It will however reduce the profit in gate camping. It gives the person who is still loading information a chance to think (provided they care about the timer).
It makes it harder for the camper to design a good setup. Will you land cloaked right near them, or will you be too far away?
Someone mentioned AOE as a counter. Indeed you may have some kind of missile smartbomb. However it will only home in on a signature radius of X, where X is a LOT of m3 worth of ship mass. This will force ships to spread out, creating vulnerabilities. Of course, there'd be the issue of people abusing them in fleet warfare. (Prevented perhaps by the fact that it homes in on mass, or combined radius..instead of FoF. Thus you'd hit your own ships in fleet warfare unless you flew right up near enemy fleet)
So at the end of the day, I think what others have said is accurate. You can't change the blob, you cant risk the underdog getting an adv that can be exploited. What you can do, is fit stabs, design your overview for fast loading times, check navmap, and fit WCS. |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation |
Posted - 2006.11.27 03:32:00 - [ 28]
Who the hell runs a 30:1 gatecamp for pirating purposes? You'd have to expect to kill a few dozen haulers for that to be worth it. |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions |
Posted - 2006.11.27 04:42:00 - [ 29]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Tux has mentioned they plan to do somthing to discourage (not kill off) blob warefare.
What those plans are anyones guess. Hopefully it will involve pants.
Gate NPC responding in numbers to deal with the campers would be nice, who ganks the gankers?!  |
oodin
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion |
Posted - 2006.11.27 05:05:00 - [ 30]
all guns should be turned into snowball launchers and flowers should grow out of our a*s..\o/ |
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