Posted - 2006.11.18 03:09:00 - [3]

 

it was overpowered, but you don't turn it from overpowered to completely useless, thats the biggest nerf ive seen.

Posted - 2006.11.18 06:14:00 - [5]

 

All that needed to be done to make it a better 'gank bc':

5% resists per level changed to 10% missile velocity per level.

Problem solved. Shield recharge is getting a nerf anyways to compensate for the HP boost, so between the resists loss and the regen nerf the damn thing will tank worse than a ferox, and still keep the 'gank' DPS.

Posted - 2006.11.18 07:30:00 - [7]

 

Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK

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It totally doesn't surprise me Burn Eden is posting about this.

Actually, having worked with the Drake on test post-nerf, I have to say it isn't useless. The restriction to kinetic damage is annoying, and it loses a bit of its DPS, but the introduction of Assault missiles still makes it a very worthwhile ship.

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The problem is, the ship should run about 50 million isk. 50 million isk is a bit much to pay for a tech I ship that can't tank as well nor hit as hard as a tier 1 battleship, which really are not much more expensive. When you start looking at it from that angle, and comparing the revised Drake to the geddon, scorp, phoon, or domi, the Drake is really coming up pretty short. The ship was overpowered when they released it for testing initially. There were several ways to handle this that would have resulted in decent ships.

for example, any of these:

7 launchers, resistance bonus, velocity bonus
7 launchers, rate of fire, velocity bonus
7 launchers, kinetic missile damage "bonus" (*chuckle*), resistance bonus
6 launchers, resistance bonus, rate of fire bonus

The route that has been taken as of now, is over the top. There is no choice from those listed above that would please everyone, but any of them would be preferable to this.

Posted - 2006.11.18 09:47:00 - [9]

 

Wouldnt it have been enough just to remove the res bonus and put in a shield recharge bonus?

Posted - 2006.11.18 11:01:00 - [11]

 

A simple swap of RoF bonus to Kinetic missile bonus would have gone down better.

Being specialized is more important than balance.

Think how hard it would be for Drakes to kill each other then?

Posted - 2006.11.18 13:13:00 - [13]

 

Originally by: Roxanna Kell

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Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 18/11/2006 01:51:32
What should ve been done is to Reduce the Tank, remove the shield resistance bonus.
and give the Drake more lows than meds. so it can set up for speed and damage without a significant tank.

so maybe 6 instead from 7 launchers with the rof bonus, change the 5% resistance bonus for Missile velocity, and decrease the ridiculous amount of Medium slots
High 8, 6 launchers
medium, 4
low, 6 <------------------ this will give the Drake the speed you spoke off.
CCP promised all tier 2 Battle cruisers will be more about speed and damage, not tank.

If any ship deserves 8-6-4 is the nighthawk, after all that time of training.

Also while you are at it, fix the vultures Lock range thank you.

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Neither speed nor damage have never been the strong points of any Caldari ship. From my personal point of view Caldari are a balanced race and that's what they are receiving.

Giving it a 8/4/6 slot setup will put it out of its race, already. That will never gonna happen, because Caldari is generally about mid slots too.

Posted - 2006.11.18 15:58:00 - [15]

 

Personally, I think all the BC's were fairly balanced, prenerf. Personally, I don't see the hurrican's change as crippling as the Drake's.

TBH, if the Drake needed something done, it should have been an Either/or kinda thing. Either lose a launcher, or change the RoF bous to Kinetic. Either change would have made the Drake an average damage dealing BC with a good tank.

Sides, the other nerf has not fallen the Drkae, but I expect it to be coming soon. The only reason people are so high on the Drake is the passive tanking. And as I recall, Tux said extenders were supposed to be giving a nerf to shield recharge for fitting them. So far on test, i have not noticed shield recharge increasing when putting on extenders, so if that change goes through, well, Gallente are nice.

Posted - 2006.11.18 20:13:00 - [17]

 

Originally by: Aramendel

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Production cost from an unresearched BP are 40 mil for the drake. The only time where you will be able to sell them for 50 mil will be in the first 2-4 weeks after kali at best.

One of the core problems with the drake is it's somewhat rediculous passive tank. Which is not mainly caused by the shield resistance bonus, but by the little fact that it has 2.1 times the shield of the ferox, but the same recharge time!

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Understood, but the fact remains it's a medium weapon platform and a pretty pricey one at that. The passive tank is too good by a bit, but outside of NPCing and 1 v 1's on Sisi where no one needs to actually do things like get in range or tackle, and no one is trying to run, I think the passive tank is much, much less of an issue than people are making it out.

Overall, I think you're right, but the offensive output has been hit a bit too hard, just as the tank is a bit too good right now.

Posted - 2006.11.18 20:44:00 - [19]

 

Originally by: Grey Area

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Only explanation for me is that CCP have TWO guys working on Drake changes in Kali, in offices at opposite ends of the building. One of them thought "Hmmm, Drake needs to lose a launcher slot for balance" and the other "Hmmm, Drake needs a different bonus for balance".

Don't you guys HAVE morning meetings?

One or the other NOT both!

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actually no.
It was seleene that convinced the devs to nerf the drake and the hurricane.

so yes, blame seleene for it.

Posted - 2006.11.18 21:16:00 - [21]

 

Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Grey Area

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Only explanation for me is that CCP have TWO guys working on Drake changes in Kali, in offices at opposite ends of the building. One of them thought "Hmmm, Drake needs to lose a launcher slot for balance" and the other "Hmmm, Drake needs a different bonus for balance".

Don't you guys HAVE morning meetings?

One or the other NOT both!

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actually no.
It was seleene that convinced the devs to nerf the drake and the hurricane.

so yes, blame seleene for it.

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If thats true that is total BS that CCP would listen to one player about what they think should be done.

Posted - 2006.11.18 21:33:00 - [23]

 

Make it a big Kestral. 6 launchers, lose the resistance bonus.

Special Ability: 10% bonus to Kinetic missile damage and 5% bonus to EM, Explosive, and Thermal missile damage per level.

Nyxus

Posted - 2006.11.18 23:17:00 - [25]

 

Originally by: Grey Area

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Yes, but could you KILL anything with it? Caldari players are sick of just sitting there tanking the damage but not having the DPS to finish anyone off...ESPECIALLY in missile Ships where the target can take the option to warp out before the killer salvo hits.

The Drake was our saviour...close range, fast travel missiles and a high DPS. the part you are complaining about is the part that should have been nerfed for balance. Nerf the tank not the DPS, and I doubt a single Caldari would have complained...most were surprised at how good it was in both departments anyway.

And if the ship was SO overpowered in the first place, you have to ask...why was it released onto the test server at all? Currently, the disappointment at having a GOOD ship snatched away from us is far greater than the disappointment at having yet another average ship handed to us in the first place would have been.

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You make a good point I guess. I really do like the tank factor, because in terms of Caldari ships I like to tank them to high hell. But then again if you lack the Damage output to kill anything why bother. Would be nice if it got that ROF bonus back, but somehow I doubt we'll get the best of both world this time.

Posted - 2006.11.18 23:50:00 - [27]

 

Originally by: Grey Area

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Yes, but could you KILL anything with it? Caldari players are sick of just sitting there tanking the damage but not having the DPS to finish anyone off...ESPECIALLY in missile Ships where the target can take the option to warp out before the killer salvo hits.

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and why isn't your target scrammed?

Originally by: Grey Area

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And if the ship was SO overpowered in the first place, you have to ask...why was it released onto the test server at all?

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see: TEST server

Posted - 2006.11.19 00:43:00 - [29]

 

While I do think that the Drake needed a slight nerf... I agree that it was taken too far. Removing both one missile launcher and the ROF bonus was not a proper solution.

Most folks who troubleshoot anything with regularity understand the concept of 'change one thing at a time'. I think either the ROF or the last missile launcher should have stayed. Taking both away and replacing them both with a kinetic only bonus was heavy-handed and unwise.