Posted - 2006.11.21 00:59:00 - [182]

 

Edited by: bunghole1 on 21/11/2006 01:18:16
Give it up, just forget about it.

ISK selling, Macromining on INSANE numbers, the whole Lottery gank and T2 BPO choke, etc etc blah blah blah...

They made a great game, they are genius' at what they do (developing), but they dont CARE man, get it through your heads.

The bottom line is, they are awesome developers but are utterly clueless when it comes to customer relations.
I have a sneaking suspicion it's all just a game to them, if you know what I mean.Their own personal manipulation of the masses.

I mean cmon, stealth nerfing, stealth boosting, that says it all pretty much right there about how much information they think we can handle or deserve.

They are gonna do what they are gonna do and dont give a rats a** about our opinions.

Posted - 2006.11.21 04:06:00 - [184]

 

Edited by: Driven on 21/11/2006 04:10:07

Originally by: bunghole1

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Edited by: bunghole1 on 21/11/2006 01:18:16
Give it up, just forget about it.

ISK selling, Macromining on INSANE numbers, the whole Lottery gank and T2 BPO choke, etc etc blah blah blah...

They made a great game, they are genius' at what they do (developing), but they dont CARE man, get it through your heads.

The bottom line is, they are awesome developers but are utterly clueless when it comes to customer relations.
I have a sneaking suspicion it's all just a game to them, if you know what I mean.Their own personal manipulation of the masses.

I mean cmon, stealth nerfing, stealth boosting, that says it all pretty much right there about how much information they think we can handle or deserve.

They are gonna do what they are gonna do and dont give a rats a** about our opinions.

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Bunghole once again has summed up the entire situation perfectly. Well done bunghole.

Horrible communication is bad enough, but the gagging hypocrisy of it all is the CEO standing up in front of 600 people at fanfest saying "Its all about the players". - when it so obviously isn't anymore.

Posted - 2006.11.21 13:37:00 - [186]

 

Is this just an avenue to vent or are there really any 'constructive' comments being looked at by the devs? Cuz frankly, its not working. Devs have already decided not to respond, if they do now, only shows how lame they are to wait. This is very insulting to your players. I hope many take note and never trust CCP again... if they chose to stay. I hope others realize its a game, and not a life, so leaving this hole is as simple as walking away.

Posted - 2006.11.21 21:13:00 - [188]

 

Originally by: Macrominer999

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Is this just an avenue to vent or are there really any 'constructive' comments being looked at by the devs? Cuz frankly, its not working. Devs have already decided not to respond...

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The ratio of constructive to 'venting' comments has declined a bit, but I for one sustain some hope that this will be addressed. Maybe CCP will:

• fix the policy error and reverse the 'magical' BPO upgrade (speaking through action alone);


• stick to their guns on that choice but fix up the equity and logic problem with the then-existing BPCs and items and 'magically' upgrade them too;


• write a patch note that relates to this problem and any fix in an upcoming patch;


• mention this subject in a Dev Blog.

Maybe there should be a court system implemented as a survey in the in-game browser used to settle matters like this. Evemail to a random sample of 1% of characters: "You have been selected for jury duty" with two or more positions described by advocates in 400 words apiece with a multiple choice selection for jurors to make.

Posted - 2006.11.21 21:28:00 - [190]

 

Finally, a Dev acknowledges that they messed up. Nothing about fixing it, but hey, at least they know they messed up.

Originally by: Oveur

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and then we have the times when we mess up and "stealth nerf" something (like the preparations for all the paths of Invention, resulting in the fix to the Tech I research/agent BPOs, which caused quite a stir)

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Posted - 2006.11.21 22:31:00 - [192]

 

The bpcs haven't been changed, just the bpos.

and thanks laendra, now we actually know that the devs know that this thing happened they can't say they didn't know about it.
I can tell you that if you keep this up ccp, you won't get many people from eve joining your new game thing with that other company white wolf.

and for some more constructive stuff:
if you wanted to change these bpos you should have done it with the release of kali, not before. that's if it is actually a good idea to do at all, which i don't think it is.

Posted - 2006.11.22 00:38:00 - [194]

 

Edited by: Ramblin Man on 22/11/2006 00:43:21

The quote is in this forum, verified by me as from Oveur. I'm not going to post a link, lest the other post turn into "OMGIJUSTCAMEZORSFROMTHECETHREADYOUSUCK!1"

Here's some more pertinent stuff to this topic,

Originally by: Oveur

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"After [Revelations (at least I think that's what he was referring to)], we're adding a new form of CSM, an old format of Q&A we had. We used to have these as live chats with a pre-defined group of players from various areas of EVE. The timing was off tho and it would have been far more efficient simply to gather the questions and post them regularly. Well, that's what we're gonna do. Have a big group of players with access to submit questions on certain topics, which change between Q&A and have the posted and archived, like every 2-4 weeks or whatever.

We're also finally starting an official Wiki, which not only will allow you all to contribute, but also enable everyone to improve information about absolutely anything within EVE, if there is doubt, we can clarify it there, where it sticks and isn't drowned in the volumes of the forums, the archive of the blogs or wherever it can end up in.

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Posted - 2006.11.22 04:37:00 - [196]

 

Originally by: Oveur

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I'd rather they write a good blog every couple of weeks than answer 5 forum threads. Forum threads disappear, blogs are at least archived.

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What good is a flipping blog if your blogs are full of misguided information and lies that yourselves won't even follow.

Originally by: Oveur

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(like the preparations for all the paths of Invention, resulting in the fix to the Tech I research/agent BPOs, which caused quite a stir)

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You make it sound like a simple solution... you just "fix" it to prepare for invention. The damage is overwhelming... you broke more than you fixed. You "fixed" something that's not even in the game. The preperations were flawed. We appreciate the response, but I don't think it made many points with everyone. I cancelled one of my two accounts due to this, and that's how I say, "Thank you" for not believing in your players. I hope others did the same.

Oh, and yes... the thread is over here... not over there... okay Oveur.

Posted - 2006.11.22 10:56:00 - [198]

 

Originally by: Oveur

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and then we have the times when we mess up and "stealth nerf" something (like the preparations for all the paths of Invention, resulting in the fix to the Tech I research/agent BPOs, which caused quite a stir)

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So much for my illusion that they actually give in-depth consideration to this kind of thing before they do it, or care if they get it wrong.

Posted - 2006.11.22 12:31:00 - [200]

 

Originally by: WhiskeyDP

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i am pretty sure they did discuss it and not just during a smoke after lunch. i am sure they are aware about the impact something like this will have even if it doesnt seem like it during these 3.5 years.

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I think that anything connected with the T2 BPOs goes straight to the heart of having an industrial character in EVE, and currently, I don't see the point to build such a character--my options are build and sell commodity products or--at least according to the T2 fanbois--go and spend many many billion (which I don't have) on a worthwhile T2 BPO. From what I can tell, Invention might provide an outlet for people that want to go to the time and trouble involved to build their own T2 gear, but does it really seem like a viable approach for large-scale production? I don't think so...

There are veteran players with thousands and thousands of RPs which have not been able to do anything useful with them, and now it seems that Invention will simply give them a choice between using (wasting?) them on disposable items for invention which give them low odds of getting a crappy T2 BPC, or holding them to them for even longer in the hope that CCP will allow some use for them in T3 production. This latest T2 episode just seems to indicate that for some unfathomable reason, CCP will simply continue to favor existing holders of T2 (and similar T1) BPOs--forever...

Posted - 2006.11.22 20:19:00 - [202]

 

Originally by: Tanis Bastar

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Originally by: WhiskeyDP

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i am pretty sure they did discuss it and not just during a smoke after lunch. i am sure they are aware about the impact something like this will have even if it doesnt seem like it during these 3.5 years.

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I think that anything connected with the T2 BPOs goes straight to the heart of having an industrial character in EVE, and currently, I don't see the point to build such a character--my options are build and sell commodity products or--at least according to the T2 fanbois--go and spend many many billion (which I don't have) on a worthwhile T2 BPO. From what I can tell, Invention might provide an outlet for people that want to go to the time and trouble involved to build their own T2 gear, but does it really seem like a viable approach for large-scale production? I don't think so...

There are veteran players with thousands and thousands of RPs which have not been able to do anything useful with them, and now it seems that Invention will simply give them a choice between using (wasting?) them on disposable items for invention which give them low odds of getting a crappy T2 BPC, or holding them to them for even longer in the hope that CCP will allow some use for them in T3 production. This latest T2 episode just seems to indicate that for some unfathomable reason, CCP will simply continue to favor existing holders of T2 (and similar T1) BPOs--forever...

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its not that the favor existing t2 holders. problem is that teh system have been broken from beginning and they still kept claiming it did work as intended.

they should have done it totally different, but since they did as they did at the beginning i am not sure what would have solved it in the end.

about ec1/sba1: they scr*wed it by releasing them as r&d bpo's should have been either market from beginning or seed t2 from beginning(but too many bpo's are still missing even after 3.5 years)

yes i am(was) one of the more hardcore players(atm i have 5 accounts and thousends and thousends RP's on the chars i transfered even if i dont play actively anymore)in eve, but i must say its not all about t2. me and my friend have made maybe 5-10b/month from t1 besides our t2 productions and trades(we started with a covetor bpo more or less).

about t2: up till today i would estimate there is just 10-15% of ALL t2 bpo's that is very profitable(some are just silly how much isk u can make) but the remaining bpo's isnt much better then a t1 frigate/cruiser/battleship bpo.

ppl just stare them blind on how much isk u make. try and enjoy the game(u can do it without t2, trust me). moderate amount of isk is nice too have i admit that, but too much will only destroy ur joy with the game rather then make it enjoyable. this is getting too long as usual and i hope i didnt drift away to whining as i usually inted to do ;)

anyway to sum it up: the problem wasnt what they did "today", they made the mistake 2,5 years ago


regards
WhiskeyDP

Posted - 2006.11.22 23:03:00 - [204]

 

Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 22/11/2006 23:11:33
Fair comments...Though the mistake made 2.5 years ago is still a problem 'now' since CCP has done little to redress the balance after that initial mistake.

Mega-rich people are getting richer and of course people are going to get envious and angry about it since it does appear unfair.

I personally don't bear any grudge against those lucky swines *ahem* who have been playing the game long enough to have had the chance get a tech 2 BPO through the lottery. It's the early bird situation - so good luck to them and their wallet that must take days to display the exact amount of ISK!! Flying my Thorax I am no less happy then them in their Faction ships with officer mods and to be honest I think it makes little real difference to how much I enjoy the game - there's always the possibility of popping that faction ship and getting the huge loot prize - would that happen without the mega-rich?? Who knows...

Anyway I have sympathy with CCP since there is no simple complete solution to the problem, but at least invention is a step in the right direction, and credit to them for taking that step, however it would be nice for them to recognise their 'mistake' and overhaul the whole of R&D and make it an active playstyle rather than something passively accrewing simply based on the time you have your agents.

*ahem* hint hint : see my idea (link in sig!) :)

Cheers,
Ramble McRamble of the Ranting Ramblers corporation

Edit: Just wanted to add light on CCP's BPOs dilemma...

It is like being a best man and porking your best mates' fiance the day before their wedding...Some things you just can't un-f*ck!!

Posted - 2006.11.23 01:03:00 - [206]

 

Originally by: Miri Tirzan

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First, for all you that are quitting because of this, can I have your stuff? Really.

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BoB related people have already ripped off my corp twice. You already have all my stuff. Stupid corp thieves.*Snip*

Originally by: Miri Tirzan

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You did not benifit from this, I did not benifit from this, get over it.

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If you dont understand the issue just dont bother posting.

Originally by: Miri Tirzan

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If you did not win then, then your not a winner. Join the club.

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I suppose all the people who own those BPOs are the original owner? Bet you a lot ended up with people who own a few other high value BPOs.

Originally by: Miri Tirzan

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The Dev's are not going to answer you. You have made no suggestions that don't benifit you.

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I have made suggestions that benefit me? I have made suggestions that benefit EVERY EVE player other than the select few who hold high value BPOs.

Well we will see how "equitable", "feasable", and "profitable" invention is. I guess we have to wait and see.

Posted - 2006.11.23 04:04:00 - [208]

 

Originally by: Hockston Axe

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Now how many of these BPC’s were still in existence at the time of the upgrades? My guess is overall not very many.

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I have Shield Boost Amplifier I BPC (with around 800 runs left).

Thank you CCP very much, for wasting lots of my ISK.

Posted - 2006.11.23 10:57:00 - [210]