Originally by: Vishnej

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Edited by: Vishnej on 08/04/2006 01:43:20
*RE1GN leaves [5] and joins BoB

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Originally by: Grimpak

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I call this the "2006 surprise"

...like wtf. North has just become a melting pot, BoB has been unleashed in EVE and ATUK decided to go BoB.

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Originally by: MessiahOfLight

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Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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... status quo probably for as long as one force (ie BoB) retains an overwhelming capital advantage - and while this status quo remains, that capital advantage will be effectively useless.

What may result from this possible scenario is a stagnation of capital ship production, especially by BoB, as every time they increase their fleet size they make it less likely that they will ever see decisive combat and justify their investment. If this stagnation happens, and if then new fledgling powers decide they want to fight in the old ways again and start preparing in secret, the balance could be shifted quickly to the point where there are multiple alliances which can field EC-sized capital fleets. If new groups manage to steal a march on BoB in this way, and can again compete on equal terms, proper territoral conquest becomes viable again...

...
Of course, BoB could probably prevent all this from happening and curtail POS actions indefinitely by simply maintaining their current lead and cranking out more capital ships. I don't think this would be good for the game in the long run; thankfully, judging by their latest announcement I think they'll probably realise this and let events take their course. Here's hoping...

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I seriuosly doubt, that BOB will slow down the Capital Ship/T2 stuff Production considerable, even in the near future. And although BOB might decide to fight on the other alliances terms, in order to get some fun out of them, doesnt mean that we will not considering to turn the wars onto our terms again if we need to.

I seriously hope that the other Alliances out there, and the future ones will come to see, that Eve is not only about fighting with weapons. We use our Industrial force to fight too, and i seriously doubt, that anyone else will beat us, if they stop building POSes and Cap ships and whatever. Cause if this continues, there will come a time when we have hundreds of capital ships, Trillions of isks, and a production capability bar none. Then truly Eve will be dominated by BOB. Not because we were so good, but because the others were too lazy. And therefore having ruined their game themselves. Noone can possibly blame uf for playing the game how its meant to be played.

[Anything i said here, is MY personal Opinion, and does NOT represent my Corp or Alliance]

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Originally by: Ziyi Zhang

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The "everyone says, screw it we cant beat BoB at their own game and it isnt even fun to try, lets go run missions in empire and wait for Lord of the Rings Online to get released" phase?

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Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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If this particular interpretation is true, then for as long as BoB retain capital superiority it will be a waste of time trying to fight them according to the current idiom. Everyone will be in your space running raiding parties, but your dread fleet will have no targets.

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Originally by: MessiahOfLight

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Edited by: MessiahOfLight on 08/04/2006 13:44:20

Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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If this particular interpretation is true, then for as long as BoB retain capital superiority it will be a waste of time trying to fight them according to the current idiom. Everyone will be in your space running raiding parties, but your dread fleet will have no targets.

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Hm... as far as i am aware, you can use Dreads and all the other Capital Ships for normal Fights too... They are not soley useful to take down POSes. So IF all of Eve is roaming all around BOB Space, BOB can use their Cap Ships to defend themself too (and all ppl know what kinda Power Carriers and Dreads have.) Additionally to that, we also plan for the Future and the increased Defensive possibilities that may come with the improved sovereignity upgrades. While we will have the neccesary infrastruture for that, the others should work for that too. Maybe just start on a smaller skale.

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Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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As it is and especially now that it has subsumed ATUK, BoB has basically won the current arms race - the race to overwhelming numbers of capital ships - by industrial effort and blobbing up, and the apparent losers may well be effectively cedeing victory of this round and moving to a new paradigm in which having twenty dreads simply isn't relevant. This will remain the status quo probably for as long as one force (ie BoB) retains an overwhelming capital advantage - and while this status quo remains, that capital advantage will be effectively useless.

What may result from this possible scenario is a stagnation of capital ship production, especially by BoB, as every time they increase their fleet size they make it less likely that they will ever see decisive combat and justify their investment. If this stagnation happens, and if then new fledgling powers decide they want to fight in the old ways again and start preparing in secret, the balance could be shifted quickly to the point where there are multiple alliances which can field EC-sized capital fleets. If new groups manage to steal a march on BoB in this way, and can again compete on equal terms, proper territoral conquest becomes viable again.

However, it will be POS wars in a very different manner. The effort needed to run POS will likely not change, but with large fleets of dreadnaughts it will be much easier to destroy them. Currently, POS wars are something of a grind, with POS being attacked individually by dread assaults and being fairly significant actions individual actions. The ****ing around in D7 has illustrated this nicely - five alliances on two sides duking it out, with to my knowledge two POS destroyed in the system in like a fortnight of fighting. With EC-class dread fleets on all sides, it will be much easier to knock over individual POS unopposed, to the point where you could reinforce normal-sized systems in a day and finish them off the day after. However, with large capital fleets on both sides, it will also be easier to mount defences in specific locations, by counter-deploying dreadnaughts. This will, I would hope, lead to a more dynamic POS war, with the focus coming back from the POS themselves to the enemy fleet. The defender at a POS always has a firepower advantage from the station defences, and if you can deploy an equal number of dreadnaughts, you should be able to fight the attackers off. This should put the fleet back on top as the major deciding factor, with wars turning not on POS grinds but on decisive fleet actions, usually with significant capital presence on both sides and often being full-on engagements between opposing capital fleets, with dread-on-dread combat determining the outcome of the war - the loser gets smashed, and the winner steamrolls on through all the hostile POS.

Of course, BoB could probably prevent all this from happening and curtail POS actions indefinitely by simply maintaining their current lead and cranking out more capital ships. I don't think this would be good for the game in the long run; thankfully, judging by their latest announcement I think they'll probably realise this and let events take their course. Here's hoping...

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Originally by: Haniblecter Teg

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Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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As it is and especially now that it has subsumed ATUK, BoB has basically won the current arms race - the race to overwhelming numbers of capital ships - by industrial effort and blobbing up, and the apparent losers may well be effectively cedeing victory of this round and moving to a new paradigm in which having twenty dreads simply isn't relevant. This will remain the status quo probably for as long as one force (ie BoB) retains an overwhelming capital advantage - and while this status quo remains, that capital advantage will be effectively useless.

What may result from this possible scenario is a stagnation of capital ship production, especially by BoB, as every time they increase their fleet size they make it less likely that they will ever see decisive combat and justify their investment. If this stagnation happens, and if then new fledgling powers decide they want to fight in the old ways again and start preparing in secret, the balance could be shifted quickly to the point where there are multiple alliances which can field EC-sized capital fleets. If new groups manage to steal a march on BoB in this way, and can again compete on equal terms, proper territoral conquest becomes viable again.

However, it will be POS wars in a very different manner. The effort needed to run POS will likely not change, but with large fleets of dreadnaughts it will be much easier to destroy them. Currently, POS wars are something of a grind, with POS being attacked individually by dread assaults and being fairly significant actions individual actions. The ****ing around in D7 has illustrated this nicely - five alliances on two sides duking it out, with to my knowledge two POS destroyed in the system in like a fortnight of fighting. With EC-class dread fleets on all sides, it will be much easier to knock over individual POS unopposed, to the point where you could reinforce normal-sized systems in a day and finish them off the day after. However, with large capital fleets on both sides, it will also be easier to mount defences in specific locations, by counter-deploying dreadnaughts. This will, I would hope, lead to a more dynamic POS war, with the focus coming back from the POS themselves to the enemy fleet. The defender at a POS always has a firepower advantage from the station defences, and if you can deploy an equal number of dreadnaughts, you should be able to fight the attackers off. This should put the fleet back on top as the major deciding factor, with wars turning not on POS grinds but on decisive fleet actions, usually with significant capital presence on both sides and often being full-on engagements between opposing capital fleets, with dread-on-dread combat determining the outcome of the war - the loser gets smashed, and the winner steamrolls on through all the hostile POS.

Of course, BoB could probably prevent all this from happening and curtail POS actions indefinitely by simply maintaining their current lead and cranking out more capital ships. I don't think this would be good for the game in the long run; thankfully, judging by their latest announcement I think they'll probably realise this and let events take their course. Here's hoping...

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Blab blab blab.


If everyones going the way of roaming alliances, then how is anyone going to field all those dreads? No one will be able to afford them if they're getting sick of POS upkeep. Is everyone training up for dreads (no!). Are, somehow, alliances getting so big that they can form up 600 man blobs on a whim? No. That blob took the 3 largest alliances in EVE, nearly 5000 people, just to make a 600 man fleet. The best that BoB can field right now is under 200 man fleet at peek.

You're also not taking into account the 5 days needed to capture sovrienity in a system. 5 days per system with a station = ALOT of warring.

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Originally by: Helmutine

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Id say the best name is "The Capital Age".

The balance of the game is now tilted decisively in favour of the attacker. There is no defenders advantage anymore. Large fleets of capital ships can neutralize a PQS system in a day, much like a blob of BS could do before POS protected PQS by means of sovereignty.

A POS killing a dreadnaught is rare, if not almost unheard of occurence. 20 dreadnaughts and support attack 10 POS. The end result is 10 POS gone at a value of 5 Billion+ and the dreads have some small scratches in the paintwork.

This has nothing to do with BoB, except that they proved that this is true.

CCP seriously need to have a look at this and make defending and empire building a real option again. Today holding a PQS means having a ton of POS and a capital fleet to give you some sense of security. A false sense at that. There must be a REAL risk of losing your dreadnaught even in Siege mode. There must be a defenders advantage if people are expected to spend their time building an infrastructure just to live in an area. Or, all alliances will eventually turn into pale carbon copies of SA, living in NPC stations since anything else is much too hard work.

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Originally by: Haniblecter Teg

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Originally by: Joerd Toastius

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The best that BoB can field right now is under 200 man fleet at peek.

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Are you sure about that?

Originally by:

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So what exactly do we call the recent shift in the political landscape

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