Posted - 2005.12.28 21:05:00 - [2]

 

Surly CCP must notice transactions of that size. 400Mil of goods probably ending up in a new users account.

It just goes to show that in reality it's not an issue to them as there are so many simple ways to stop this.

They would only need to employ 1 person to check all huge money tranfers in game and buy small amounts of isk from ebay. They could eaily track back the accounts being used and shut down an entire operation per one ebay purchase.

If they wanted to stop it they could. I think they don't want to.

Posted - 2005.12.28 21:16:00 - [4]

 

Originally by: Kylania

---

Even worse is his "EVE Emporium" store. That jerk has 2 pages of stuff, including billions of ISK for sale. CCP/eBay need to shut him down, now.

Currently he has 1,200,000 Isogen, 305,000 Megacyte, 305,000 Zydrine, 350,000 Nocxium and 3,900,000,000 ISK for sale.

---

Which they could do by buying one cheap item via ebay say at £10. Then when he transfers the isk in game they can track the account it came from and all accounts that have passed money to it etc.

But they won't because it would mean they would be getting less money because they would probably have to shut down 10-20 accounts as a result.

And that would mean less money for CCP. Thats the reason that macominers are never shut down and nothing is done about these people on ebay.

Posted - 2005.12.28 21:33:00 - [6]

 

Edited by: Macro Slasher on 28/12/2005 21:37:33
That's only the tip of the iceberg. I bet you can find over 100 000 euros worth of stuff on sale at any moment if you combine Ebay and all the other similar sites. Myself I calculated once that I could earn very easy some 5000 euros/month by pressing couple buttons with my mouse and farming ISK.

CCP might or might not be aware of all of it. They might or might not like getting those accounts' subscription fees rather than the real players'. (Some people might have left the Eve Online already in disgust over what is happening. A lot more might leave in the months to come) They either might or might not know good solutions to the problems. Some of them either require or not breaking some eggs (causing a lot of whining and problems). Ahh. Who knows.

So far I haven't seen one single credible action taken by CCP. They might have done something but the amount of farmers has steadily increased every day.

Take any trade hub (or otherwise popular quite high security) solarsystem and check all the asteroid belts and ice fields. You will see players names like ajkvhkah and jkaghlkqjhga and asdfasdfasdf in handy ~5 barge + hauler groups. (Unless if "macrointel" guys or the Reservoir Dogs or someone else has cleaned them on purpose. CCP hasn't.) Awfully quiet players that just mine and mine and mine some 20 hours/day non-stop. Most of them are sweatshop stuff and some 10-20 barges controlled by the same person. (They act very similarly and synchronized it when you bump them, destroy them etc) It's horrible to watch. Those "players" are not really playing the game at all.

At peak times there is for sure over 2000 of these ISK grinders around. They are in newbie corporations and have been very calculative in trying to maximize their income. Their mining equipment (barges or apocs or similar) is all they can do. It's very very sad to watch.

It doesn't make the in-game economy collapse though. The price of many items is steadily coming down because you can get the ores half-free. On the other hand.. If you got ISK, you can buy more with the ISK, its value goes only up But it's not nice knowing that there are hundreds of people around who are quite abusive, skip most of the parts to just get it all instantly.. It feels like cheating at least to me.

Posted - 2005.12.28 21:50:00 - [8]

 

ibtl

I doubt that ebay would ever do anything to assist CCP - u can go on there now and in some categories (such as audiobooks) half the things for sale are illegal copies.

ebay could shut them all down in 20 minutes. Does it? no. More sales = more revenue. That seems to be as far as it goes.

Posted - 2005.12.28 22:07:00 - [10]

 

the ebay problem is getting a lot worse

Posted - 2005.12.28 22:25:00 - [12]

 

Originally by: Rooman Black

---

But they won't because it would mean they would be getting less money because they would probably have to shut down 10-20 accounts as a result.

And that would mean less money for CCP. Thats the reason that macominers are never shut down and nothing is done about these people on ebay.

---

Do some research before you speak:

Originally by: GM Arkanon

---

reported by GM Arkanon | 2005.09.15 14:47:13

Hello everyone.

Today, we moved against macro users on Tranquility. Macro use has been growing lately and we are well aware of the trend. We have been collecting data on those involved and biding our time, which has resulted in the macroers growing ever bolder and more visible. That makes our job much easier and for that I thank them.

Right now, we have banned over 100 accounts and we're nowhere nearly done yet. Although the players involved are welcome to contest the bans if they feel they have been unfairly targeted, I want to make one thing clear:

If we find that a player contesting his ban is only trying to bluff his way out of it, we will lengthen the ban. If it's your first offence, the ban will be doubled. If it's your second macroing conviction and you try to lie your way out of it, we will reward you with a permanent ban.

As you may have noticed, I don't much care for macroers. But that's not the point, this is:

EULA, section 7.a.(3):

(3) You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

Those not banned today may rest assured that we will get them later.

All the best,

GM Arkanon

---

Posted - 2005.12.28 22:31:00 - [14]

 

that was three months ago, and they apparently haven't done anything since. the mass bans need to be a lot more frequent to have any effect on the macro miners.

Posted - 2005.12.28 22:57:00 - [16]

 

As much as it sucks to see, what they are doing is not illegal. It does go against EULA, but thats a task for CCP to monitor and enforce, not Ebay. I'm afraid once something is posted, CCP can't do anything about it (as far as I know) but I'm sure there are ways to investigate these transactions and find where the trail leads and to what accounts and IP addresses... ban them for good.

Posted - 2005.12.28 23:02:00 - [18]

 

Originally by: Lord Frost

---

ban them for good.

---

Banning someone for good is quite impossible. Can't use IPs because they are dead easy to get changed, can't use person names (I got 100 friends in line that could open accounts for me if I just paid), same goes for credit cards and such, can't use computer IDs (you can always change components, some are changeable anyways), ...

Posted - 2005.12.28 23:09:00 - [20]

 

Edited by: RedWyvern on 28/12/2005 23:10:00
I think these kind of sales are bizarre - take the one in the link. A winning bid of £27 for those minerals. But how long would it take the seller to acquire all that? Probably less than the average person would get in their rl job given the same amount of time - and this is not a constant or assured source of income.

Selling stuff on ebay, apart from the EULA and all the moral objections, screws things up because it makes eve look like work. And that, is just wrong. ;)

Posted - 2005.12.28 23:18:00 - [22]

 

T1 Frigs on Ebay : $0.5
T1 Mods on Ebay : $1.00
Players buying this : Priceless

Posted - 2005.12.28 23:25:00 - [24]

 

Originally by: Lord Frost

---

As much as it sucks to see, what they are doing is not illegal. It does go against EULA, but thats a task for CCP to monitor and enforce, not Ebay. I'm afraid once something is posted, CCP can't do anything about it (as far as I know) but I'm sure there are ways to investigate these transactions and find where the trail leads and to what accounts and IP addresses... ban them for good.

---

"B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing
within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted
Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction.
The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online
auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary
rights in the Game."

Last I knew of, selling something you don't own was, and is, illegal.

Posted - 2005.12.28 23:38:00 - [26]

 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 28/12/2005 23:39:45
Chill out people.
After reading some posts by GM Arkanon I'm certain that he loathes people who "cheat" in any way just as much as me. But as you can easily understand CCP just can't ban on a gut feeling.
And don't start off with that your gut feeling is better than mine because, meh...

Btw. I belive CCP official policy on cheaters is: "Hang them by the balls."

Posted - 2005.12.28 23:44:00 - [28]

 

Originally by: Dario Wall

---

Originally by: Lord Frost

---

As much as it sucks to see, what they are doing is not illegal. It does go against EULA, but thats a task for CCP to monitor and enforce, not Ebay. I'm afraid once something is posted, CCP can't do anything about it (as far as I know) but I'm sure there are ways to investigate these transactions and find where the trail leads and to what accounts and IP addresses... ban them for good.

---

"B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing
within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted
Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction.
The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online
auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary
rights in the Game."

Last I knew of, selling something you don't own was, and is, illegal.

---

thats a agreement with CCP.... not Ebay. Besides, anyone can put anything up and say you are bidding on that persons "time" to aquire the items. And theres also the tactic of offering something for free in the auction of this neat paperclip.

Get the picture... in Ebay's mind its legit... but CCP doesn't run Ebay. Hence, their actions are legal... otherwise, they'd be in jail quicker than you could say, "oops".

Posted - 2005.12.28 23:49:00 - [30]

 

doesnt the EULA constistute a contract between CCP and the player? And isnt breaching a contract against the law?