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blankseplocked Corporate Tools need serious work, Comprehensive List of problems
 
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Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.11.27 00:05:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Anton Zuber on 05/05/2006 17:32:42
Edited by: Anton Zuber on 04/03/2006 18:42:09
Bugs and feature requests
- Corporate Wallet/Journal: "Market Escrow" is too vague
- Corporate Wallet/Journal: 'player' buys stuff from 'player' is too vague
- Votes Should list how many shares voted and how many abstained
- Votes should require 50% minimum to pass, not 5%. It would be nice if the 'required percentage' was settable.
- A corporation should always know who owns shares
- Secure trade for shares
- Show Info on a Corp often shows 1000 shares even when more shares exist.
- Audit logs on hangers
- Seperate Divisional Accounting
- Some sort of security/logging for shared ships in hangars
- 'Last Played' should be visible information
- Remote viewing of containers
- Remote viewing of container logs
- Remote viewing the contents of a hangar array
- Remote viewing of POS fuel levels
- Automated Corpmail messages are excessively spammy (sometimes Crashy)
- Corp tickers with zero members should be deleted. Shares too
- Corporation/Asset/Office should be organized by hangar
- Better tools for managing corp standings
- Delivery Boy: a seperate role for picking up deliveries
- Trader/Salesman: a role for sell orders only
- Trader/Procurement: a role for purchases only
- More divisional Hangars
- More titles and longer titles
- Some canned reports, like balance sheet, financial statement, cash flow, etc.
- A way to total up the market value of all items in a hangar would be useful.
- Ceasefire Agreement: Allow it to be a part of the ceasefire agreement to specify a period of time. It will be impossible to redeclare war during this period.
- Remotely splitting or stacking items. (for escrow and trading)
- Right click features like 'set destination' for Corp Assets.
- Uploadable Corp Logos (with approval maybe?)
- Corp Logos and Ship names as art on your ship image
- Ability to Lock/Unlock ALL Blueprints in a hangar in one vote
- Colored names for CEO's and Directors in corp and alliance chat
- Ability to mute corp and or alliance members
- The ability to 'export' all corp data to a file
- LOOPHOLE? There is no 3 week delay for refining a secure container.

New problems with the RMR patch
- Corp Blueprints are fully visible to all members. This should maybe require the hangar/query role
- Rent factory/lab should not be required to use a BPO in a corp Hangar
- Factory manager should not be required to use a BPO stored in a corp hangar
- Corporation/Accounts/Assets/Jobs appears to be obsolete now
- corp orders should list the total value of all unsold products
- corp orders should be visible from the wallet as well (consistancy!)

Fixed
- CLIENT LOCKUP! When trying to "deliver" a job, if you lack any necessary roles or skills...
- We can now cancel factory/lab job.
- Corporate Wallet/Journal: can now view past 25 entries for current day
- Corporate Assets/Deliveries has new right click options
- Blueprints now show COPY, ML, and PL in the Science & Industry page.

Riela Tanal
Caldari
Someone Else's Problem
Posted - 2005.11.27 05:50:00 - [2]
 

I whole heartedly agree, the lack of Divisional Wallets for the Corp Wallet is irritating, i'd like to set divisional budgets also so my members know what they can spend at any given time. Also, i'd add a suggestion of the ability to get a summary income per month that way we know how much per month, week, day we are making without going through it and adding every individiual sale or expense.

Mesuno
Azure Horizon
Posted - 2005.11.27 11:13:00 - [3]
 

Also the filters on the corp wallet are useless.

My corp has production as well as mission runners. Their taxed bounties push anything production related off the screen in a matter of minutes.

We need to be able to remove items from the visible wallet transactions, as well as just view one type of transaction.

and need I scream for it again. DIVISIONAL WALLETS.

They need to be there and working. My previous corp ended up setting up a totally independent production subsidiary corp because they couldn't keep track of things in the main wallet.

Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.11.28 18:56:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Anton Zuber on 05/12/2005 18:59:21
Detailed explanation of Corporation Finacial Issues
Corporate Wallet/Journal: Unable to see more than 25 entries for today
If you open the corporate wallet and choose the journal tab, you will see a list of transactions today. If your corporation does any signifigant amount of busieness you will have considerably more than 25 entries each day. at this exact moment my corporate wallet page 1 has entries from 2005.12.04.20:05 until 2005.12.04.17:05

Any entries from 00:00 up until 17:05 for today are not listed. By pressing the >>> button to go to the next page it then lists only entries for the previous day completely skipping all entries for the current day. Paging further back in the history will show that it works correctly for every day except for the current one. This should be fixed.

Corporate Wallet/Transactions: Market Escrow (among other things)
Market escrow is the most blant offender that comes to mind right this moment but transaction descriptions in general should be looked at. Any transaction in the corp wallet should always list who made the transaction and if relevant what was purchased or sold. Currently market escrow does neither.

Corporate Wallet/Orders: Feature Doesn't exist
The lack of this button is plainly unnacceptable. A corporation must have full access to know how its money is being used. The innability to know anything about orders placed with corporate funds is simply outrageous.

This tab should be created on the corporate wallet just as it exists on the personal wallet already. It should list all orders placed with corporate funds. It should list who placed each of these orders.

As is currently done these orders should still be limited by the trade rules of the player who places the orders and some information about these orders should still be placed in the personal wallet of the player who places these orders. Order in the personal wallet which are using corp funds should be clearly marked as such. Currently they are indistinguishable from personal orders.


Corporation/Accounts/Journal: Not Implemented?
I can only assume that this was intended for some sort of financial summary page. Whatever it was intended for it does nothing at this time.

Corporate Role Trader is buggy
The big bug with trader is the simple fact that it a player with the trader roll puts up a sell order, the taxes will come out of the corporate wallet, but the money from the sale itself will appear in that players personal wallet.

Also, one might hope that trader would provide a useful alternative to full accountant for allowing other players to help sell for the corp. Unfortunatelly the trader can still just spend every dime the corp own on anything he wants.

It would be very useful if the trader role was completely rethought. My ideas would be to split it into two roles. One for selling, which would sell and place the money in the corp wallet. And one for buying which would place the items in the deliveries hangar. A buying trader should not have access to the deliveries hangar, that should be a seperate role.

Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.12.04 21:11:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Anton Zuber on 04/12/2005 21:15:12
Alright. I have now spent well over an hour making sure this is complete and accurate and I am getting tired of working. I will put more detailed information in for more of this growing list of issues sometime tomorrow.

Oh, and of course. If you want to add to this list, share your information on any of these issues or even just show your support for these problems, Be sure to post. Thanks Smile

StarLite
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2005.12.04 21:23:00 - [6]
 

And we REALLY need an audit log for corp hangars ...

Thufur
Caldari
Silent Requiem Corp
Posted - 2005.12.04 21:30:00 - [7]
 

As one of the CEO's that helped with input for this, I wholeheartily agree with the need for these changes. The current corp managment tools are really a joke.

Also, I would like to see a more simplified or user friendly Roles and Title Management functions. Currently they are very cryptic and hard to figure out and basically have no help guide.

Dragonaire
Caldari
Corax.
PURgE Alliance
Posted - 2005.12.04 21:32:00 - [8]
 

Please get more than just the cash account working and the transaction stuff he talked about working.

And thanks Anton Zober for starting this Very Happy

Korbann
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.12.04 21:38:00 - [9]
 

as I have been on the channel listening, I fully agree.

/SIGNED

Angel Lightbringer
Caldari
Nexus Shipyards
Posted - 2005.12.05 00:10:00 - [10]
 

Hey there Anton, we talked about this before..

/signed.

Cantrell
House of Thoren
Posted - 2005.12.05 00:35:00 - [11]
 

Even as the CEO of a small core I agree. Especially since my guys usually have to double up on Roles.

/signed

Korbann
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.12.05 15:02:00 - [12]
 

bumpage, nobody cares about corp managment tools these days? :(

Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.12.05 19:01:00 - [13]
 

Okay. a few minor updates. I finished explaining a couple more bugs in greater detail. Later I will get back and thoroughly explain all the share and voting related problems.

Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2005.12.05 19:05:00 - [14]
 

Edit topic back ;) .. normal people cannot access this topic otherwise.Laughing

Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.12.06 03:34:00 - [15]
 

Oops... Nuff said. =P

Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.12.06 21:02:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Anton Zuber on 06/12/2005 21:10:51
Okay. Todays topic is Shares and Voting.

I know I was the only voter, but it still says %100 for. WTF?
When a vote is passed you will typically see 100% (0/0) or somesuch. This means only that 100% of those who actually voted were for this. This could literally mean one guy with one share voted, and everyone else abstained which would still say 100% (1/1). This is completely unnacceptable.

Any vote should at the very least indicate how many people and shares voted, and how many people and shares abstained.

How does voting work?
My hypothetical horror story right now is one vote, one share, 24 hours with no votes against, I win. What does this mean? It means exactly that. One guy with one louzy share can start a vote for CEO on a nice quiet day when nobody is looking. He then must wait 24 hours for the vote to pass or fail. If nobody votes against, it will pass.

NOTE: I have heard that it does require a minimum of 5% to pass a vote. I have been unable to verify or deny this claim yet (I need to train my alt in corp manangement and test this). Even if it is 5% this is still a serious liability since any member with shares can vote to become CEO and then strip the corp of everything if the vote passes.

IDEA/Mininum Voter Attendance
Basically the problem here is that there is no minimum voter attendance or at least a very trivial one. There 'might' be a minimum rule of 5% votes in for votes to become CEO which is pathetically low to be honest but again this is one I can't verify. Until proven otherwise I'm going on the assumption that one loose share could steal the corporation.

Look at setting better rules for votes. for many votes 24 hours is just fine. But for CEO there should be a much longer minimum vote period, like a week perhaps. Also minimum voter attendance is important. 1 share should not be able to win against nothing but abstained votes, especially not for a CEO vote. Votes to become CEO in particular should strictly require 51% shares/votes to pass. Any abstained votes on a CEO vote should always be assumed to be against.

Where are my shares now?
At present, there is absolutely no way to know where your shares are unless you are holding them in your personal or corp wallet. Once they are given out you have absolutely no way of knowing if that person still has them or if they were all given away to random people. This is plainly unacceptable.

A corporation should always know exactly who owns shares.

How do I sell shares?
There is no secure trade for shares unlike everything else in the game. Seeing as how shares are an enormous risk I strongly advise against selling shares at this time.

If you did wish to sell shares, you would have to give the shares and HOPE that the player was honest enough to pay you for them. Of course, as things are right now you never know if he might be planning to slip those shares to a mole in your company so he can try a CEO takeover by vote. All it takes is one day when you're not looking and it could easily happen.

Also even assuming everything is on the up and up, there are no guarantees of any kind that dividends will ever be paid out on those shares. In fact most corporations in EVE specifically do NOT use shares for doing dividends currently because of the enormous risks that shares represent.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright... I think that's enough ranting for today. If someone can help verify the exact voting rules on shares I would be interested in this information. I know they're quite scarry, I just don't know exactly how scarry.

As usual, I will keep updating this as new problems are brought to my attention. I have no intention of shutting up until CCP recognizes these problems and at the very least puts them on the work list

Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.12.09 09:22:00 - [17]
 

Interface glitch in Politics/Votes section.
I consistantly get a glitch with votes when I have multiple new votes the first two that I click on to open up and vote on will work correctly. The third one I click on will open and have two buttons to vote, but the buttons will not be clickable. By closing and reopening the corp menu It will correct this glitch for another two votes. Annoying little glitch.

Another Interface glitch in Politics/Sanctioned Actions
When looking through my sanctioned actions list I noticed that a number of my votes had no text. The grey bar and the down arrows to open the vote were present but the text for the tab was absent. scrolling up and down, resizing the window, etc I was able to get the text to reappear, but whenever I reopen it again I will consistantly have several random tabs with no text.

It might be relevant that I have over a screen full of votes for locking down various blueprints. I did not notice this problem when I had less votes in the list.

DaReaper
Net 7
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2005.12.10 03:56:00 - [18]
 

i'd like a last logged in feature, so you can tell when members have been active or not.

Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.12.10 05:58:00 - [19]
 

Lots of good ideas here.

Add my list to it too.
the list

P.S, didn't know the ceo channels was used

Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.12.10 08:56:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Anton Zuber
Corporate Wallet/Orders: Feature Doesn't exist
The lack of this button is plainly unnacceptable. A corporation must have full access to know how its money is being used. The innability to know anything about orders placed with corporate funds is simply outrageous.

This tab should be created on the corporate wallet just as it exists on the personal wallet already. It should list all orders placed with corporate funds. It should list who placed each of these orders.

As is currently done these orders should still be limited by the trade rules of the player who places the orders and some information about these orders should still be placed in the personal wallet of the player who places these orders. Order in the personal wallet which are using corp funds should be clearly marked as such. Currently they are indistinguishable from personal orders.


Originally by: Patch 3582 to 3772 addresses Red Moon Rising, EVE Online's latest Content Edition
You should now see the name of traders associated with market transactions made in the name of the corporation in the corporation wallet.

Players with role 'Accountant' should be able to see all active market orders issued in the name of the corporation. However, they are not able to cancel or modify them


Well, looks like they are granting one request.

sonofollo
Caldari
Doomheim
Posted - 2005.12.10 12:30:00 - [21]
 

divisional wallets before anything else as well as up to 25% corp tax

Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.12.10 21:42:00 - [22]
 

Ooh... Sure enough. Johnathan Roark mentioned that some of these are being fixed. I just pulled the relevant lines from the very recently updated list of changes in the next major patch.

Good news for us. =)

Anton Zuber
Minmatar
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2005.12.11 20:38:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Anton Zuber on 11/12/2005 20:40:12
Edited by: Anton Zuber on 11/12/2005 20:39:51
IDEA/Delivery Boy
There should be a specific role to allow access to the deliveries hangar. Currently I think this role is packaged with accountant/director.

IDEA/TRADER - Sales
The trader role should actually be broken up into two seperate roles. One for selling, one for buying.

The reason for this is that there is no real security advantage to the trader role, he can still spend every dime your corp owns on fertilizer if he so chooses and keep it for himself.

Idea/Trader - Procurement
This is simply to flipside to sales. Note that I do not envision this role as having access to the deliveries hangar. That is a seperate role as outlined above.

IDEA/Net Worth and Profits
This is a bit more complicated than the above ideas. But basically I am hoping for a daily summary sheet for normal corporate information. This sheet should be daily or weekly, peferably both.

- Total Sales taken directly from the order sheet.
- Estimated total value of unsold products. This is also taken directly from the order sheet.
- Estimated total value of corp assets like BPO's
- Estimated total value of items stored in the corp hangars. This should be settable for individual hangars since some may not be useful to total up in this fashion.
- Expenses. Total of rents and other expenses.

All of this is just basic common sense stuff one might find on a normal financial report for a company. I think this may have been planned at one point for the corporation/accounts/journal page but was never implemented.

And on that note. I'm done ranting for the day. I've updated the list on the first post to reflect that the trader and invisible orders issues are on the list for the upcoming content patch.

While this is good news, there is an awful lot of problems that are still not addressed.

Johnathan Roark
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2005.12.12 07:20:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Patch 3582 to 3772 addresses Red Moon Rising, EVE Online's latest Content Edition
You should now see the name of traders associated with market transactions made in the name of the corporation in the corporation wallet.

Players with role 'Accountant' should be able to see all active market orders issued in the name of the corporation. However, they are not able to cancel or modify them


Well, looks like they are granting one request.


On the first one, doesn't look like its working on the test server yet.

The corporation orders is found on a tab in the market window. Odd place to put it, but im glad its in.

CCP Oveur

Posted - 2005.12.12 11:33:00 - [25]
 

Excellent summary of what's needed. I think it's time for an "Corporation Management Revisited" project.

Angelic Resolution
The Arcanum
Posted - 2005.12.12 12:25:00 - [26]
 

sweeeet.. movement in the corp problems.... sweeeet :D

Btw: make it so you have an 'Apply to all' button for altering corp hangars. Some people you need to give them access to 4 tabs and it just takes for ever going through all the corp hangars @ hq... @ other... based at...

Wukwuk
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.12.12 12:53:00 - [27]
 

While we are at it, a little more interface consistency would be nice:

- corp wallet is under the "wallet" menu item but corp assets is buried in the "corp" menu item. Should be a tab in the assets window.

- can right click and set waypoint and such from assets but not corp assets or deliveries.

- can search assets but not corp assets

- the corp assests list should for each station where there are items be sub-divided by division/hangar, with "deliveries" shown as if it were a division.

Wanoah
Minmatar
Msana Foundation
Posted - 2005.12.12 14:44:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Oveur
Excellent summary of what's needed. I think it's time for an "Corporation Management Revisited" project.


Sounds like a great idea! A lot of the corp tools seem to get a bit left behind in favour of the more glamorous shiny stuff like new ships etc. And it's impossible to complain about that because we all like new ships and new ways of using our existing ships, but improved corp management stuff can really make a big difference to people's day-to-day Eve life. Administration can come to dominate gametime if you are the CEO or director of a corp that is successful, especially once it gets larger than about 50 members.

Mesuno
Azure Horizon
Posted - 2005.12.12 17:09:00 - [29]
 

Wow... Looks like this thread has developed a bit since I last checked it a week or so ago. I'm glad Oveur has taken note too. This is long over due.

I'm not a CEO, just a lowly trader responsible for managing production, purchasing and sales. Some more useful features and bug fixes would be a godsend.

The other mini feature I would like to see is a way to view recently expired buy and sell orders. Currently once they complete they disappear from the orders screen. On the wallet one order can show as many hundreds of small transactions which makes it hard to work back and figure out what was what.

A simple log of old buy and sell orders, maybe as a seperate tab under orders, would really help keep track of whats what and make record keeping much easier.

Information needed would be something like

Name of item/ Quantity Sold / base price / Gross value / net value (less tax and brokerage) / period remaining / total order period.

Each completed order would then join this log of old orders, so for example I could tell at a glance when I nee dto produce more ogre drones, or paradise cruise missiles to sell, without having to scroll through 90 odd active sell orders to work out which is missing.

Then just give a 'clear order log' button so when you have everything you need out of it you can clear it again.

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
Posted - 2005.12.12 20:07:00 - [30]
 

To be honest, the Corp Management section has a very unfriendly UI. Additionally, there is no easy way to quickly assign membership rights other than titles...and we only get 10 of those.

- Need more than 10 titles (aka templates)

- Need a way to audit a single member in one UI that has access to all logs, taxes, roles, etc. Sort of like the Info screen, but more functional. Think of this as a Employee File.

- Need Divisional wallets. Enough said.

- Need Divisional taxes as well.

/signed


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