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Imah
Posted - 2011.08.29 11:36:00 - [31]
 

First of all: You probably did NOT have a point active on him - only if you get the server message that tells you "XXXX has started warp scrambling YYYY" the game has registered you warp disruption attempt. as seen on the videos, the modules did not even activate (no cycle timer on them).

This does not mean, that there is no problem here: If you turn on your modules prior to (or while) acquiring a lock on your target, the modules should activate the moment the target is locked.

this is most definitely a lag issue:
1.) Target gets locked
2.) server tells client that the target is locked and that it's now ok to activate modules (+X ms delay due to lag)
3.) client tells server to activate preselected modules (+X ms delay due to lag)
4.) server applies modules to target and informs all clients (no additional lag)

the obvious solution for this problem would be to change the order of execution: if a module is activated prior to acquiring a lock, the server should be told to apply those modules immediately after a lock is established. no additional client-server-chit-chat required here.

of course some clarification on the targeting/locking/activation mechanics from ccp would be appreciated.

Simetraz
Posted - 2011.08.29 13:42:00 - [32]
 

Insta-lock and scram against a frigate size is taking things too far.
So I say no trouble found, working as intended.

At the same time though.
Bubbles should have infinite scram and cloaks shouldn't work inside them either.

Take something away give something else instead.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.29 14:58:00 - [33]
 

You danged kids have it easy and yer still whinin'! When I was your age we din't have no "points". We had to eject from our ship with a cable and lasso the other ship to keep 'em from warping off AND WE LIKED IT!

Danged generation's getting soft I tells ya!

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.08.29 15:19:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 29/08/2011 15:19:05
I think that if theres a bug, it might be related to the client showing false info on screen. Meaning the ships weren't actually tackled even though the client told the tackler so.

I have seen related issues, such as "jamming" text showing (shown HERE) while no enemies are on grid, or the jamming bar under a targeted ship showing that the ship would be jammed while it really isn't (I lost one falcon for that).

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.08.29 15:55:00 - [35]
 

recived reply to latest bug report about this, result: Could not reproduce.

smar hitng last time and i expect same thing next time, ccp please take this seriously.

Really takes the wind out of your sails when the target you been chasing simply warps off with a whole gang pionting it (this time tagret was in a maelstrom, 5 lows we had 7+ pionts).

REALLY makes you not want to bother, i LOVE pvp in this game and the pionts are one of the most basic things that makes pvp work.

Mufa Jaynara
Posted - 2011.08.29 16:20:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Muad 'dib
recived reply to latest bug report about this, result: Could not reproduce.

smar hitng last time and i expect same thing next time, ccp please take this seriously.

Really takes the wind out of your sails when the target you been chasing simply warps off with a whole gang pionting it (this time tagret was in a maelstrom, 5 lows we had 7+ pionts).

REALLY makes you not want to bother, i LOVE pvp in this game and the pionts are one of the most basic things that makes pvp work.


Realize that you never actually pointed it... thats the problem!!! you get a confirmed lock, but the hostile can warp before the module even activates!

Very easy to reproduce if you know what exactly is needed...

Take a rifter fitted with 2xNanofiber Internal Structure I (or tech 2) resulting in a 2.6 sec align time
Take a Hurricane fitted with 3x Mediym Targeting System Subcontroller I rigs and 2x Sensor booster II with scan resolution scripts... resulting in 1050.6mm Scan Resolution

The result is a instacane that can lock the said frig in 1.9 sec, while it takes the frig 2.6 sec to warp from the second it starts warp... (after jumping through a gate) obivously the instacane can lock the frig just in time if you have the reflexes for it as you see in the video but that leaves only 0.7 sec for the module to activate (minus the few milisec it takes to click the target)

Bubanni
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.29 16:24:00 - [37]
 

Did I mention my friend confirmed in the video that he was yellow boxes as he warped... thats server confirmation right there, not client side

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.08.29 16:39:00 - [38]
 

I saved my game log from the "fight", we put plenty of pionts.

When a ship is in warp, the 'look at' funtion wont work.
Mystical might saw that besides our tackling him, his ship could not be 'looked at' so he cycled his piont on and off to try and make it work.

We could have had all the pionts in the world on this guy it wouldnt have made any difference.

Does ccp expect us to tackle ships by bumping them off course to be able to reliably stop somthing warping out?!?!?!

Shasz
Angels of Anarchy
Posted - 2011.08.29 16:41:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Bubanni
Did I mention my friend confirmed in the video that he was yellow boxes as he warped... thats server confirmation right there, not client side


That confirms the lock happened but not the module activation.

There are other little nagging timing issues with game input that suck too. If you click on a target or click on the overview, both lists update themselves prior to your click going through, and if they changed - well, sorry, you mis-clicked. Better luck next click.

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
Posted - 2011.08.29 17:43:00 - [40]
 

Desync. Your ranges were not the ranges you thought you had.

Bubanni
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:32:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Karash Amerius
Desync. Your ranges were not the ranges you thought you had.


Not in the video scenerios...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VtsnhAomJs
at 0 of the gate, with long range point, locking as soon as target decloaks and begins warp...

CCP Masterplan


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:35:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Imah
First of all: You probably did NOT have a point active on him - only if you get the server message that tells you "XXXX has started warp scrambling YYYY" the game has registered you warp disruption attempt. as seen on the videos, the modules did not even activate (no cycle timer on them).

This does not mean, that there is no problem here: If you turn on your modules prior to (or while) acquiring a lock on your target, the modules should activate the moment the target is locked.

this is most definitely a lag issue:
1.) Target gets locked
2.) server tells client that the target is locked and that it's now ok to activate modules (+X ms delay due to lag)
3.) client tells server to activate preselected modules (+X ms delay due to lag)
4.) server applies modules to target and informs all clients (no additional lag)

the obvious solution for this problem would be to change the order of execution: if a module is activated prior to acquiring a lock, the server should be told to apply those modules immediately after a lock is established. no additional client-server-chit-chat required here.

of course some clarification on the targeting/locking/activation mechanics from ccp would be appreciated.


This is approximately correct. Pre-activating your weapons is only a client-side feature. Once your client has been informed by the server of a successful lock, each pre-activated module will then begin a regular 'activate due to click' operation. The only gain to be made by pre-activation is eliminating the human reaction time between seeing your locked target and clicking the module button.

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:39:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Bubanni
Originally by: Karash Amerius
Desync. Your ranges were not the ranges you thought you had.


Not in the video scenerios...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VtsnhAomJs
at 0 of the gate, with long range point, locking as soon as target decloaks and begins warp...


Just watched the vid... I can see what's happening... if you watch his ship, right as you're locking his warp drive is kicking in, you can see his ship changing speed as he enters warp. It's happening right about the same time you get the lock and instantly lose it. The time differencial is so small between your lock and his actually entering warp that your scram has no time to activate and catch him.

There's no bug here, just a ship just fast enough that you're simply not going to catch him.

Bubanni
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:43:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Bubanni
Originally by: Karash Amerius
Desync. Your ranges were not the ranges you thought you had.


Not in the video scenerios...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VtsnhAomJs
at 0 of the gate, with long range point, locking as soon as target decloaks and begins warp...


Just watched the vid... I can see what's happening... if you watch his ship, right as you're locking his warp drive is kicking in, you can see his ship changing speed as he enters warp. It's happening right about the same time you get the lock and instantly lose it. The time differencial is so small between your lock and his actually entering warp that your scram has no time to activate and catch him.

There's no bug here, just a ship just fast enough that you're simply not going to catch him.


Yet pre-incarna, this wasn't a problem... now it is module activation is taking alot longer than it did in the past... try undocking and activating a module on a rat, turn it off and on repeatatly while looking at how fast the module actually activates on the rat... you will see it right away, the time it takes can be as long as 1 second... it ought to activate "instantly" or within a few milisec... doesnšt have to be a bug... but it's slow processing/lag that shouldn't be there as it's basicly game breaking

Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.08.29 18:50:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Bubanni
Yet pre-incarna, this wasn't a problem... now it is module activation is taking alot longer than it did in the past... try undocking and activating a module on a rat, turn it off and on repeatatly while looking at how fast the module actually activates on the rat... you will see it right away, the time it takes can be as long as 1 second... it ought to activate "instantly" or within a few milisec... doesnšt have to be a bug... but it's slow processing/lag that shouldn't be there as it's basicly game breaking


You're already talking a fraction of a second here between your lock and his actual entering warp... expecting "instant" reacting is unrealistic. You'll simply need to chalk it up to small fast ships being built for speed being exceedingly difficult to nab.

Besides, there shouldn't be any ships capable of catchign absolutely everything out there... that's simply OP and ridiculous.

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.08.29 19:59:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Muad ''dib on 29/08/2011 20:07:38
Edited by: Muad ''dib on 29/08/2011 20:00:14
This thread seems to be about two issues, the first being the OPs one which has been in since the latest patch (modules not activating on lock).

The other is the pionts not working 100% of the time.

In regards to the first issue i have noticed this too, it seems now the cleint and the server have an additional back and forth for the lock which wasnt there before, this creates double the lag, on the internet that amounts to A LOT of time. Thats my hypophysis.

regauding the second issue of some ships slipping into a unpiontable trance and no tackle gear working:

I could provide a time and date of a drake escaping multiple pionts with "no stabs" only to be retackled and bumped and killed 30 seconds later, where his KM (true to his word) had no stabs fitted.

EDIT: I should add that he was taking heavy damage and was fully tackled, multiple cycles in.

ROXGenghis
Perkone
Posted - 2011.08.29 20:27:00 - [47]
 

The videos in this thread do not show the problem I've encountered. Imagine the same videos, but with the scram icon appearing next to the Rifter's locked target icon for a split second before it warps. That's what I've had happen a couple of times recently. And never before.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.08.29 21:28:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: CCP Masterplan
Originally by: Imah
First of all: You probably did NOT have a point active on him - only if you get the server message that tells you "XXXX has started warp scrambling YYYY" the game has registered you warp disruption attempt. as seen on the videos, the modules did not even activate (no cycle timer on them).

This does not mean, that there is no problem here: If you turn on your modules prior to (or while) acquiring a lock on your target, the modules should activate the moment the target is locked.

this is most definitely a lag issue:
1.) Target gets locked
2.) server tells client that the target is locked and that it's now ok to activate modules (+X ms delay due to lag)
3.) client tells server to activate preselected modules (+X ms delay due to lag)
4.) server applies modules to target and informs all clients (no additional lag)

the obvious solution for this problem would be to change the order of execution: if a module is activated prior to acquiring a lock, the server should be told to apply those modules immediately after a lock is established. no additional client-server-chit-chat required here.

of course some clarification on the targeting/locking/activation mechanics from ccp would be appreciated.


This is approximately correct. Pre-activating your weapons is only a client-side feature. Once your client has been informed by the server of a successful lock, each pre-activated module will then begin a regular 'activate due to click' operation. The only gain to be made by pre-activation is eliminating the human reaction time between seeing your locked target and clicking the module button.
I was under impression that pre-activated modules check of target lock periodically, maybe every 300 ms or something, as opposed to every render frame.
If the checking is not done every frame, then human reaction can be faster than pre-activated method.

Also, the Overview updates every 500 ms or something, which is not good enough when trying to target decloaking ships. The game client should insert new objects in Overview list independently of Overview update cycle. It doesn't even need to get correct distance/velocity data, just a name and fill in the rest on regular update cycle.


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