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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.07 22:34:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Dethmourne Silvermane on 07/07/2011 22:40:01
Dream Team C5 setup go!

[Archon, C5 Triage]

Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Triage Module I

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Capital Armor Repairer I
Capital Armor Repairer I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay
Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Einherji x10
Curator II x10
Garde II x10

[Bhaalgorn, C5 Webber]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu
Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu
Imperial Navy Heavy Nosferatu

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
True Sansha Stasis Webifier

Federation Navy 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates
Federation Navy 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Valkyrie II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

[Abaddon, C5 DPS]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Valkyrie II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

[Revelation, C5 DPS]

Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Sanshas Multifrequency XL
Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Sanshas Multifrequency XL
Dual Giga Pulse Laser I, Sanshas Multifrequency XL
Siege Module I

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Capital Armor Repairer I
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay
Imperial Navy Capacitor Power Relay

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Curator II x5
Garde II x5

[Noctis, Noctis, Wreckball Eater]

Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II

Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Medium Salvage Tackle I
Medium Salvage Tackle I
Medium Salvage Tackle I

[Rorqual, C5 Wreckball]

Capital Tractor Beam I
Capital Tractor Beam I
Capital Tractor Beam I
Capital Tractor Beam I
Capital Tractor Beam I
Capital Tractor Beam I

Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II
Shield Recharger II

Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Curator II x5

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.07 22:39:00 - [2]
 

So with the above team you have 6 pilots.

Archon warps in, hits the first escalation wave and triages as everybody lands (in Bhaalgorn + 4 x Abaddon). You wipe first escalation wave - on last BS, the first Abaddon pilot warps out and comes back in with a Revelation just in time to pop the next cap escalation wave. He goes siege green and you burn down that wave, as you hit the last BS, the next Abaddon pilot trades out for another Revelation and spawns a third wave. You start burning that down, and near the end both the remaining Abaddons flop out, one for the DPS Thanny and one for the Rorqual (to start wreckballing).

Once the site is mostly wreckballed, the Rorq pilot grabs the Noctis and once the last escalation is cleared he warps in and noms his wreckball.

Rorqual is of course optional - you could really have anybody swap out for the Noctis. This merely lets you minimize loot time, in theory, since you're combat looting.

Nita Talmage
Posted - 2011.07.07 23:14:00 - [3]
 

My corp also runs c5 anoms and sites with a similar setup, but we NEVER have to triage either carrier.

You have all the necessary ships, just the wrong order.

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.07 23:17:00 - [4]
 

I take it you pop both carriers in at once then, and rr/re them together for massive cap generation?

Jenifer Kira
Posted - 2011.07.07 23:22:00 - [5]
 

No, you WILL lose both carriers that way.

You already know that a rorq does not cause an escalation.

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.08 00:54:00 - [6]
 

Ah, that's right... but then wouldn't you have to run a shield gang?

De BuG2
Rise on Chaos
The Fendahlian Collective
Posted - 2011.07.08 08:13:00 - [7]
 

Can that revelation even hit those BS's in siege?

James Arget
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.07.08 08:48:00 - [8]
 

Quote:
The Vigilant was the first Gallente design the Guardian Angels would steal and make their own, but it wouldn't be the last. Building on the Thorax's natural strengths, it is a deadly vessel both by itself and in fleet tandem. A group of these sluggers is a sight to fear.

Special Ability: 75% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage

Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff per level
Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level


Seeing a Sleepless Guardian moving at 4 m/s is a beautiful thing.

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:31:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Dethmourne Silvermane on 08/07/2011 12:32:43
Originally by: De BuG2
Can that revelation even hit those BS's in siege?


Yep.

ED: Oh, and we considered the Vigilant, but decided that it wasn't worth it with the group we have (even though I can fly the Vigilant with the requisite skills to 5). If we had a triage archon to feed it cap, maybe, but for now we've actually got reversed roles and the thanatos is triaging while our archon only provides drone dps.

De BuG2
Rise on Chaos
The Fendahlian Collective
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:45:00 - [10]
 

Me and my corp are currently planning to run 2 dread and 2 carrier escalations in our C5, 2 naglfar's and 2 chimera's, our plan was to go for the carriers in triage and the dreads in siege, then send them in pretty much the same as you do, are target painters and webbers mandatory? or can the dreads hit without them?

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.08 17:28:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Dethmourne Silvermane on 08/07/2011 17:29:38
The webs are strictly mandatory for sieged dreads to do reasonable damage (my experience has shown that you (with the bhaalgorn I provided) dump 2 webs on target A and 2 on target B, basically chaining your webs so that (optimally) you always have one of the sleepers down to about 20m/s.

The TPs definitely help a lot, I'm not sure they're necessary.

EDIT: We're actually toying with a Loki instead of the Bhaalgorn, since you can get similar EHP in a cruiser-sig-radius package, with a little extra web range to boot. The main downside is a lower damage envelope.

De BuG2
Rise on Chaos
The Fendahlian Collective
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:03:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane
Edited by: Dethmourne Silvermane on 08/07/2011 17:29:38
The webs are strictly mandatory for sieged dreads to do reasonable damage (my experience has shown that you (with the bhaalgorn I provided) dump 2 webs on target A and 2 on target B, basically chaining your webs so that (optimally) you always have one of the sleepers down to about 20m/s.

The TPs definitely help a lot, I'm not sure they're necessary.

EDIT: We're actually toying with a Loki instead of the Bhaalgorn, since you can get similar EHP in a cruiser-sig-radius package, with a little extra web range to boot. The main downside is a lower damage envelope.


I see, we actually have a Loki on hand too. anyway, many thanks for all your help, i spent hours thinking about it Smile

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:02:00 - [13]
 

Huginn.

Bhaal webs to at best around 30km, Loki even less. If you can manage it the ships with the 90% strength bonus will be effective, but are limited by range. I've heard people using Daredevils in Wolf Rayets.

Nita Talmage
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:54:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Nita Talmage on 08/07/2011 22:56:11
Shield tank the webber and the rorq. The rest don't matter.

Use the rorq for gang bonuses.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.07.09 02:05:00 - [15]
 

Everytime I read one of these threads I really wonder what people are doing to make it so tough on themselves.

Triage. Energy transfers. Seriously, what are you doing to need that in order to take on a max of 8 Guardians per escalation?

We have one non-triage carrier repping all the sub-caps. The other capitals are just there for causing the escalations.

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:25:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Nita Talmage
Edited by: Nita Talmage on 08/07/2011 22:56:11
Shield tank the webber and the rorq. The rest don't matter.

Use the rorq for gang bonuses.


How do you get enough webs on a shield tanked webber? Our math shows we need -at least- 3 webs, optimally more.

Originally by: Durzel
Huginn.

Bhaal webs to at best around 30km, Loki even less. If you can manage it the ships with the 90% strength bonus will be effective, but are limited by range. I've heard people using Daredevils in Wolf Rayets.


You've got those range bonuses reversed - the Loki has more web range than a Huginn.

I honestly don't see the Huginn having a remotely feasible tank for this, though.

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Everytime I read one of these threads I really wonder what people are doing to make it so tough on themselves.

Triage. Energy transfers. Seriously, what are you doing to need that in order to take on a max of 8 Guardians per escalation?

We have one non-triage carrier repping all the sub-caps. The other capitals are just there for causing the escalations.



Are you in a hole with an effect that benefits RR, or provides additional resistances? I'm not actually convinced triage is strictly necessary even without these benefits, but it certainly helps; I think mostly for us triage is a holdover from the days when we were running nightmares (which desperately needed it, because 100k ehp on a BS sig is not enough).

Also, it sounds like you're not using the dreadnaughts to actually DPS; is this accurate? because we've found that sieged dreadnaughts with 2-3 webs on a target absolutely demolish escalations - so much so that i believe it would be feasible to run both dreadnaught escalations simultaneously if you had two lokis with 3 webs each (one tackling for each dread).

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.09 16:37:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Durzel on 09/07/2011 16:37:22
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane
You've got those range bonuses reversed - the Loki has more web range than a Huginn.

I honestly don't see the Huginn having a remotely feasible tank for this, though.

Honestly I haven't. Sad Huginn with Recon 5 and Fed Navy webbers webs out to 56km before any gang links. Loki w/Immobility Drivers will do half that. Huginn has 60% bonused webbing per level, Loki has 30%. Sleepless Guardians orbit at 35km and will often spawn further than that.

As for tank, it doesn't get much aggro. It's tried and tested. Smile

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.09 18:01:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Durzel
Edited by: Durzel on 09/07/2011 16:37:22
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane
You've got those range bonuses reversed - the Loki has more web range than a Huginn.

I honestly don't see the Huginn having a remotely feasible tank for this, though.

Honestly I haven't. Sad Huginn with Recon 5 and Fed Navy webbers webs out to 56km before any gang links. Loki w/Immobility Drivers will do half that. Huginn has 60% bonused webbing per level, Loki has 30%. Sleepless Guardians orbit at 35km and will often spawn further than that.

As for tank, it doesn't get much aggro. It's tried and tested. Smile


I really meant Loki > Bhaalgorn range-wise, I don't know how I managed to say Huginn.

And our experience has been that the webbers get a LOT of aggro, so maybe we're just unlucky?

James Arget
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.07.09 21:44:00 - [19]
 

Rapier>Huginn, the extra low slot makes it quite a bit beefier. However, we've just seen that Golem>Rapier as well, since you have plentiful mids. DPS/Web Lokis are also nice, to tap the brakes on the sleepers which aren't getting pirate webs, and because they can mop up frigs/cruisers.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.07.09 22:28:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Everytime I read one of these threads I really wonder what people are doing to make it so tough on themselves.

Triage. Energy transfers. Seriously, what are you doing to need that in order to take on a max of 8 Guardians per escalation?

We have one non-triage carrier repping all the sub-caps. The other capitals are just there for causing the escalations.



Then you're not finishing these in under 12 mins.

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.13 23:23:00 - [21]
 

FWIW, we were able to do this with 4 characters the other day.

Triage archon came in first, all 3 others came in with buffer abaddons.

We burned down the wave, dropped 2 of the abaddons for loki and revelation.

burned that wave, dropped last abaddon for a moros.

burned that wave, swapped moros for a thanatos (we don't have another abaddon pilot that can also fly a carrier, or we'd have had the moros stay in instead of swapping).

took about an hour to do with this setup. I think we can make things a lot smoother than we did, especially when we move to rapier (which definitely looks viable in an armor tanking configuration with 4 webs, 1 tp, 1 ab).

McGee McGee
Posted - 2011.07.14 02:47:00 - [22]
 

I was always under the impression that you could not use the same race ship to spawn both waves. For example, if you use an Archon to spawn the first carrier wave, the 2nd carrier needs to be a Thanatos, Nidhoggur, or Chimera - another Archon won't do it.

I may be incorrect?

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2011.07.14 09:45:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: McGee McGee
I was always under the impression that you could not use the same race ship to spawn both waves. For example, if you use an Archon to spawn the first carrier wave, the 2nd carrier needs to be a Thanatos, Nidhoggur, or Chimera - another Archon won't do it.

I may be incorrect?

2 x Carriers
2 x Dreads

Can be any race, but it has to be that combination in any order. First Carrier/Dread will spawn 6, second (of its class) will spawn 8.

Carrier/Dread/Carrier/Dread = 6/6/8/8
Carrier/Dread/Dread/Carrier = 6/6/8/8
Carrier/Carrier/Dread/Dread = 6/8/6/8

Obviously the sooner the Dread(s) are there the better. Carrier has to go first obviously to be able to keep the subcaps alive.

Note that 3rd, 4th, etc carrier or dread doesn't create more escalations so you could warp 10 Dreads in after the first one is already there and you'd still only get +8 Guardians.

Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2011.07.14 14:29:00 - [24]
 

FWIW carrier/dread/dread/carrier is imho best option.


 

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